Forgiveness
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Forgiveness
Forgiveness of AXH has been a hard one for me. And the topic of forgiveness tends to come up here on a fairly regular basis.
I found the following during a search online for material on forgiveness and thought I'd share it. It's a group called Anima Series. I don't know what church they follow, or much more than the fact that I found this incredibly helpful:
Ask Anima: How Do You Forgive Someone Who Has Repeatedly Hurt You? - Jon Jorgenson - YouTube
Three things that stood out for me are:
I'm still working through forgiveness. I'm still am having a hard time letting go of the anger towards AXH. And to some extent, the anger towards myself, too. I don't know...
Can any one share other resources that are helping or have helped you with the idea of forgiveness? Thanks.
I found the following during a search online for material on forgiveness and thought I'd share it. It's a group called Anima Series. I don't know what church they follow, or much more than the fact that I found this incredibly helpful:
Ask Anima: How Do You Forgive Someone Who Has Repeatedly Hurt You? - Jon Jorgenson - YouTube
Three things that stood out for me are:
- the definition of forgiveness being "to stop feeling anger (toward someone who has done something wrong): to stop blaming (someone)"
- the idea that forgiveness is choosing to not carry around the anger or the pain
- that forgiveness is not forgetting and that the relationship does not have to go right back to what it was. That we CAN say "I forgive you, but I can't be around you anymore"
I'm still working through forgiveness. I'm still am having a hard time letting go of the anger towards AXH. And to some extent, the anger towards myself, too. I don't know...
Can any one share other resources that are helping or have helped you with the idea of forgiveness? Thanks.
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the definition of forgiveness being "to stop feeling anger (toward someone who has done something wrong): to stop blaming (someone)"
The second one? See, here's where I get into trouble. I don't feel a need to stop blaming him. I feel like I have forgiven him for what he did to me (I don't feel a need for him to apologize; I don't feel a need to exact vengeance) -- but I still hold him responsible for it. And as for what he did to the kids -- I don't feel that's mine to forgive, if it makes sense. I find that harder -- and partly like no matter what I do or feel, his abuse of them is between him and them.
I know that's not what you asked for, but anyway...
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty 
Forgiveness of AXH has been a hard one for me. And the topic of forgiveness tends to come up here on a fairly regular basis.
I found the following during a search online for material on forgiveness and thought I'd share it. It's a group called Anima Series. I don't know what church they follow, or much more than the fact that I found this incredibly helpful:
Ask Anima: How Do You Forgive Someone Who Has Repeatedly Hurt You? - Jon Jorgenson - YouTube
Three things that stood out for me are:
I'm still working through forgiveness. I'm still am having a hard time letting go of the anger towards AXH. And to some extent, the anger towards myself, too. I don't know...
Can any one share other resources that are helping or have helped you with the idea of forgiveness? Thanks.
I found the following during a search online for material on forgiveness and thought I'd share it. It's a group called Anima Series. I don't know what church they follow, or much more than the fact that I found this incredibly helpful:
Ask Anima: How Do You Forgive Someone Who Has Repeatedly Hurt You? - Jon Jorgenson - YouTube
Three things that stood out for me are:
- the definition of forgiveness being "to stop feeling anger (toward someone who has done something wrong): to stop blaming (someone)"
- the idea that forgiveness is choosing to not carry around the anger or the pain
- that forgiveness is not forgetting and that the relationship does not have to go right back to what it was. That we CAN say "I forgive you, but I can't be around you anymore"
I'm still working through forgiveness. I'm still am having a hard time letting go of the anger towards AXH. And to some extent, the anger towards myself, too. I don't know...
Can any one share other resources that are helping or have helped you with the idea of forgiveness? Thanks.
I think a lot of people who identify themselves with codie traits make the choice to put up with bad behavior. To me, it is not exactly the fault of the crazy A/narcissist/whatever doing the bad, but our fault for remaining involved. This is not something that I used to think at all. I think for maybe 4ish years afterwards I thought it was totally him at fault. I am now starting to view that differently and see my responsibility for getting hurt. This is the only way I can forgive him by taking ownership of the trouble too. I never did anything bad to him or others, but I failed to protect myself.
There are no victims, only volunteers.
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that forgiveness is not forgetting and that the relationship does not have to go right back to what it was. That we CAN say "I forgive you, but I can't be around you anymore"
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I have always loved this quote from Living with Contradiction by Esther deWaal
I guess the point is, the "cauterizing iron" for me is both forgiveness and detachment. Letting them just do what they do, but at the same time letting go of the past and the stuff that goes with it.
For we have been shown the cost of healing love when things have gone wrong and the good shepherd goes in search of the sheep. He begins gently with the oil of encouragement, but he may then have to go on to the cauterizing iron, and finally it may be that he has to apply the knife of amputation. It is no good shrinking from this. For there may be a very real danger that we may be tempted to protect the other individual from themselves...
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Originally Posted by m1k3
There is a Buddhist saying that says: Anger is like holding a hot coal waiting for a chance to throw it at someone.
Forgiveness is about putting down the coal and stop burning yourself. Doesn't have a darn thing to do with them and they sure as heck don't get off the hook.
Your friend,
Forgiveness is about putting down the coal and stop burning yourself. Doesn't have a darn thing to do with them and they sure as heck don't get off the hook.
Your friend,
This is my favorite quote on forgiveness, originally posted by Mike. It helped me to really visualize forgiveness, to understand that I needed to work through some of my anger in order to even GET to real forgiveness, and to separate it from absolution in my mind.
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Originally Posted by MissFixit
There are a million reasons why we choose to stay, but the bottom line is we chose to stay for a certain amount of time. People who really love themselves and are mentally healthy, don't stay in toxic relationships. They either leave or don't get involved at the first sign of trouble.
[....] I never did anything bad to him or others, but I failed to protect myself.
[....] I never did anything bad to him or others, but I failed to protect myself.
So I am working on forgiving myself as well.
However, I kind of... no, no kind of. I take exception to the publicly touted "no victims, only volunteers" saying; especially as it's generally applied to DV or rape survivors. I believed the fairy tale that a loved one would never hurt me, he never meant to hurt me; I believed him when he said he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. I may not have been a victim, but I wasn't a volunteer either. I NEVER willingly, freely, raised my hand to say "Yes, I'll agree to this." Volunteer: (as a noun) a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task or (as a verb) offer to do something.
I'll have to ponder its application to dealing with an active A, and whether or not I volunteered on that front.
Lillamy, it's funny (not ha-ha). I think I may be about the opposite. I don't know.... Maybe I need to work through this (a lot) more... I'm not certain I blame AXH, because I still find myself thinking, "If I did *this* differently, would it have changed? Maybe I was responsible for making him do ____. But anger? Oh, yeah, it still manages to show up when I think about him.
And I want to let it go. It's so very tiring when it manifests.
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty
However, I kind of... no, no kind of. I take exception to the publicly touted "no victims, only volunteers" saying; especially as it's generally applied to DV or rape survivors. I believed the fairy tale that a loved one would never hurt me, he never meant to hurt me; I believed him when he said he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. I may not have been a victim, but I wasn't a volunteer either. I NEVER willingly, freely, raised my hand to say "Yes, I'll agree to this." Volunteer: (as a noun) a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task or (as a verb) offer to do something.
But, when someone is abusive repeatedly (lying, drinking, cheating, etc..), they are showing you who they are regardless of words. Each day you choose to stay you sign up for that abuse.
This is an empowering thought. Because we all have choices.
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Obviously, I love C.S. Lewis' quote on forgiveness or I wouldn't have chosen it for my signature.
Forgiveness is central to our healing, I firmly believe this, but if there are some things that I'm not ready to forgive, well, that's ok. I'll just start with something smaller. Maybe, by the time I'm on my deathbed, I'll get to where I need to be. At least I'll get an A for effort.
Forgiveness is central to our healing, I firmly believe this, but if there are some things that I'm not ready to forgive, well, that's ok. I'll just start with something smaller. Maybe, by the time I'm on my deathbed, I'll get to where I need to be. At least I'll get an A for effort.
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Your post is timely for me as forgiveness (and learning to not be so "rigid" in life) were my two take aways from my counseling session this week.
How I'm looking at it is like this: the whys and the hows and the memories are not important. What is important is the right now and whether I want to allow my old memories and old hurts to control my right now. The answer for me is no (I assume the answer for you is no too.) Okay, so then it is to my (and your) detriment that you hold on to these things.
For me, that means thinking about forgiving my husband and realizing that all of that forgiving him is about ME and for ME. As per usual, I think Firesprite is right on with Mik3's old quote. This anger is about you. I think it's important for us to realize that our forgiving someone doesn't do anything but empower ourselves. You are not granting him any kind of free pass, serenity, or access to peace because you forgive him - you do not have that power. Rather, you're allowing yourself to be free of the stress, anger and energy drain of carrying around the past. Let it go. Do that for yourself. When something triggers you or a memory creeps back in, take a deep breath and grant yourself the ability to forgive because it benefits YOU. At this point, being angry, resentful, holding grudges, etc. does nothing but hurt us.
How I'm looking at it is like this: the whys and the hows and the memories are not important. What is important is the right now and whether I want to allow my old memories and old hurts to control my right now. The answer for me is no (I assume the answer for you is no too.) Okay, so then it is to my (and your) detriment that you hold on to these things.
For me, that means thinking about forgiving my husband and realizing that all of that forgiving him is about ME and for ME. As per usual, I think Firesprite is right on with Mik3's old quote. This anger is about you. I think it's important for us to realize that our forgiving someone doesn't do anything but empower ourselves. You are not granting him any kind of free pass, serenity, or access to peace because you forgive him - you do not have that power. Rather, you're allowing yourself to be free of the stress, anger and energy drain of carrying around the past. Let it go. Do that for yourself. When something triggers you or a memory creeps back in, take a deep breath and grant yourself the ability to forgive because it benefits YOU. At this point, being angry, resentful, holding grudges, etc. does nothing but hurt us.
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Serious Karma, have you asked for his forgiveness?
When my counselor told me that my husband likely has some resentments against me I scoffed at her. HIM resentful of ME?! But that's me playing the victim card again. He can't grant me peace and likewise I can't do that for him either. Forgiveness is an exercise that benefits the person granting forgiveness.
Ack, that sounds brash and I don't mean it to be. I'm trying to work on that too.
When my counselor told me that my husband likely has some resentments against me I scoffed at her. HIM resentful of ME?! But that's me playing the victim card again. He can't grant me peace and likewise I can't do that for him either. Forgiveness is an exercise that benefits the person granting forgiveness.
Ack, that sounds brash and I don't mean it to be. I'm trying to work on that too.
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That's interesting Stung. Maybe someday I will, but honestly, If I asked for his forgiveness at this point he and I would both probably fall over laughing.
He would need to be in a different place regarding his own recovery for me to have that sort of conversation with him. It is something to consider though, and I'm going to think about it.
He would need to be in a different place regarding his own recovery for me to have that sort of conversation with him. It is something to consider though, and I'm going to think about it.
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I remember when I presented my 1st step to my sponsor....even then he asked me (yes I had a male sponsor) ok, so what part did YOU Play in all of that??? i'd written my life story from the "victim" perspective, what they did to me, what happened to me. but what he had me look at it is....ok, so how did you REACT to these things?
by the time I got to my 4th step I was more right-minded. this is about ME not them.
by the time I got to my 4th step I was more right-minded. this is about ME not them.
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At a meeting a few months ago I was saying to my Alanon home group that, in retrospect, maybe it wasn't quite fair of me to have hung all of my hopes and dreams on a man that I knew had a drinking problem. That even though he's the obvious reason our marriage failed, maybe I needed to take a little ownership of having heaped more on his plate than he was capable of handling. A recovering alcoholic in the group softly said, "You're working your fourth step." I couldn't wait to to get home and tell my daughter. I felt so proud of myself. Like someone had given me a shiny gold star.
It's such a beautiful thing when it happens isn't it? Those little moments when we realize we're moving forward.
I'm still thinking about what you said, Stung, in post#12 about asking my STBXAH for forgiveness. Other than expecting a bit to much from him, I'm not sure where else I let him down, but I'm working on it Stung, I'm working on it, and I love the suggestion. If he and I ever get past this current patch, where all of our conversations are only about surface, unimportant, pleasantries, maybe I'll get a chance. For now though, I think my inclination would be to say "So see darling, I asked you for forgiveness. Wasn't that nice of me? Now here's an itemized list of the bad things you did to me. It's your turn." Let's face it. I only just made it to the 4th step.
It's such a beautiful thing when it happens isn't it? Those little moments when we realize we're moving forward.
I'm still thinking about what you said, Stung, in post#12 about asking my STBXAH for forgiveness. Other than expecting a bit to much from him, I'm not sure where else I let him down, but I'm working on it Stung, I'm working on it, and I love the suggestion. If he and I ever get past this current patch, where all of our conversations are only about surface, unimportant, pleasantries, maybe I'll get a chance. For now though, I think my inclination would be to say "So see darling, I asked you for forgiveness. Wasn't that nice of me? Now here's an itemized list of the bad things you did to me. It's your turn." Let's face it. I only just made it to the 4th step.
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