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Old 06-20-2002, 03:40 AM
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JT
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Expectations

I had an experience with a young girl I work with...she was mortally wounded because her husband of one year did less than she expected of him for their first anniversary. I was about to deliver my "expectation speech" when she pointed out that her father still leaves love notes for her mother and buys flowers and all the lovey dovey stuff that she wants. She was insistant that she DESERVES to be treated that way and he better step up to the plate or out he goes. That is what she has seen all of her life and those ARE her expectations.

She got me thinking about my own approach to expectations...if I expect nothing (and therefore everything is a gift) does that mean I am lowering my standards? I am protecting myself from dissappointment but is that enough to not be dissappointed? In her case she grew up with one example...and I grew up with another...is that where our expectations sprout?

My expectations of the A in his disease SHOULD be nonexsistant but what about the rest?

So any thoughts on what we feel we deserve vs. our expectations?
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Old 06-20-2002, 04:18 AM
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Tired;
I think ALOT has to do with how we were raised and our parents relationship. My parents are still lovey dovey after 33 yrs of marraige, and this is what gave me the courage after a short while to know my A relationship was not for me. This isn't the way I deserve to be treated. Then there is my best friend who stayed in an abusive relationship with a man for 11 years - her father had physically and sexually abused her when she was a kid. This is what she knew, this is what she thought she deserved. It has taken therapy for her to know she does not. The pattern CAN be broken.
On another note, don't you love these people who are angry at there husbands for 'not kissing them at the door' or something. One of the girls at work told me she was about to leave her husband because he wouldn't change his car insurance policy. These people should try to walk a mile in OUR shoes!
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Old 06-20-2002, 05:23 AM
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Hi JT and SIDMOM

I know I have struggled with this whole idea of expectations too.

It still comes down to the fact that you cannot change anyone but yourself. We can continue to have wonderful expectations of our ducks but they are still OUR expectations and our ducks still have THEIR choices. .their free-will. Even to choose to slowly kill themselves with drugs and alcohol.

Years ago a therapist said to me that he thought a truly healthy person would eventually out grow a relationship with an addict. I guess that means as we get better we move on to choosing people who can be there for us and not settle. I know this statement really shocked me at the time but it certainly makes more sense now.

After all these years of dealing with this disease of addiction in one way or another nothing surprises me. It truly is a trudge to the road of happy destiny (hopefully for some of us).

Peace Mo
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Old 06-20-2002, 05:30 AM
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Howdy JT!
Deserving is such a subjective thing. Who knows if that woman "deserves" to be treated like a movie starlet during contract negotiations? I rather think that deserving is unmeasurable, and that we get hung up in that notion too often.

Scenario-
The addict in your life comes home with his eyes dialated out to his ears, sweating, talking like an idiot and lighter the fifty bucks you sent him to the grocery with... and also without the groceries. You ask "Did you spend the grocery money on drugs" He says " No, I was mugged by the abominable snowman. I got snow in my eyes is why they're so bloodshot. I got fur in my mouth is why I'm coughing. Have you seen my sunglasses?"

You think... "I asked a stupid question, I deserve a stupid answer."
Whoa! Deserve? That implies that a lie is justice and that an addict is a qualified judge, jury and executioner.

Or you might think... "I should have expected that." Maybe. It's impossible to not have some expectations. After all, the sun has risen every day of our lives. I rather expect it to come up tomorrow, you? I expect sugar to be sweet. I expect an aspirin to help my headache. If someone lies to you with some regularity, you may come to expect lies from them. Does that mean it is just for them to lie to you? That you "deserve" it? That's really a deep question to struggle with over grocery money.

To me the issue is not what I deserve. What I deserve is between me and HP and in my opinion can't be measured by another human being.
Expectations? How can we help it? You turn the key and the car starts. That's normal. Unless you know the battery is unhooked. Then you "expect'' nothing when you turn the key. These are things we learn from experience. The crazy part is when you know there is no battery in the car, you turn the key, and get pissed that it won't start, then wonder if you "deserve" it. Or do you say "I deserve a car with a battery!" ?

Whether you deserve it or not... if your goal is to get across town without the means of public transportation or a cab.... you WANT a car with a battery. That's not a deserving. That's not an expectation. It's a standard. A requirement that meets a purpose or desire.

Okay, you've got this batteryless car that you can't expect to meet your standard of reliable transportation. You've got that down. You can't expect it. Do you lower your standard? Do you say, this car is okay with me just like it is, and I relinquish my goal of getting across town? I want to be in this particular car at rush hour and nowhere else? Or is the goal more important ? Do you find another way to get across town? I'll bet you do. The next question is if you leave the useless hull sitting in your driveway. It might be fixable, after all, but lots of people have the unsightly things towed to the garage.

Hugs,
Smoke
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Old 06-20-2002, 06:52 AM
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BRAVO - BRAVO
<img border="0" alt="[Supercool]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/dj.gif" /> Smoke you had me laughing so hard. Love the snowman example. I needed a good laugh today....

Love,
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Old 06-20-2002, 07:42 AM
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...lets continue this car analogy...how did you end up with this car with no battery? When you went out car shopping you looked at alot of different models and compared body styles and features. You compared the colors and the interiors...do you want a sporty model or should you settle for for the mini-van (not alot of pazazz but very reliable)? Oh well, we only live once...so you choose the bright red convertable with the leather bucket seats...but the only problem is that it is stick...and you still have to learn to drive stick.

So you grind, and stop and start your way home with your new purchase and you wash it and you wax it and you polish it and then you try to drive it again...grrrrrrrrreeeeee...and you find yourself wishing it was an automatic after all...."it would be so much easier if it was only an automatic", you lament.

The car is always a problem...it stalls in the middle of traffic, dies at the light, drips oil on the floor and consumes more gasoline that any car you have ever seen. It even disappeared once for several days....then it simply reappeared in your driveway and you still aren't sure what happened. The windshield was cracked and dirty, there were straws and charboys under the hood and not a drop of gas in the tank.

And......the battery was missing!

How could you have ever imagined all the trouble this car would cause...you made the payments, your were promised reliability...and you DESERVED reliablity. You kept all the service appts, you changed the oil...you did all that was EXPECTED of you...is this what you DESERVE?...
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Old 06-20-2002, 07:48 AM
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LOL! Touche' JT!!!!!!

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have made a great breakthrough in the psychology of recovery. We have all heard of "addictologue".... WE have discovered ANONALGIES! <img border="0" alt="[Yellow]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/yellow.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Yellow]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/yellow.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Yellow]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/yellow.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Yellow]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/yellow.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Yellow]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/yellow.gif" />
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Old 06-20-2002, 08:10 AM
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lol , great stuff !

JT,

You can expect me to love you and you deserve all the love that is handed to you.

Hugs,

MG
 
Old 06-20-2002, 08:25 AM
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Ok...since I am not getting an answer to my question...I will stop beating around the bush.

June is turning 50 very soon and Ward is romantically challanged...in fact he heard about this great golf outing on THE DAY and can't we celebrate the following week?

My response was..."NO....sorry Ward...not acceptable. After all I HAVE been married to YOU for 20 years and I EXPECT AND DESERVE a night out. And not at the local pizza joint, thank you!"
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Old 06-20-2002, 08:38 AM
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My daughter went through this and was always upset on every birthday. I told her that men are not intelligent in the what to do department. I told her she needed to ask for what she wanted and not expect her husband to know.

On her next birthday, lol, she told him what kind of flowers she wanted, how many flowers to buy, the exact vase she wanted and the color of the ribbon that went around the vase. She was soooo happy when she got it. I laughed so hard. Now on each occasion her husband knows exactly what to do. She doesn't expect him to know and doesn't expect him to think of it by himself.

So I think you should just be matter of fact and tell him exactly what he is going to do for you on your birthday.

Hugs,

MG

P.S. If golfing is that important to him, wouldn't it be ok to compromise so that you enjoy it without someone feeling like they lost out on something.
 
Old 06-20-2002, 09:03 AM
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Nope...no compromise, not this time. And I have done what your daughter did...on almost every occasion. I am not silly enough to sit back and wait for him to blow it...because he will. I am more than happy to make suggestions. But in the past I have made the reservations...and even packed for us both, gassed up the car, washed it and ushered his protesting butt out the door without his lifting a finger. When I turned 40, I said "this is where I am going...do you want to come?" Very enlightened...I don't feel like being enlightened this time...

He can golf if he wants...but I will celebrate my birthday with his credit card wherever I want ON my birthday....and deal with the fallout after that.

Not angry...just the facts Mam!!
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Old 06-20-2002, 09:22 AM
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My father wasn't exactly sure what day my birthday was on. For 30 years I thought my mother was born on the 25th, then found out it was the 26th. (She always wondered why I always gave her presents a day early.) My family always did something "in honor of "... "sometime around". We've even been known to reschedule Christmas. As a consequence, people who find celebrating a day ON the day of utmost importance is a real head scratcher to me. HOWEVER, I do know lots of those people. It doesn't matter that I don't get it, it's important to them, so I get with the program. I'm sure there are lots of things that are important to me that other people don't get. But the people who are my friends respect them.

Perhaps what this boils down to is that, just once, you'd like something to be important to him just because it's important to you. This is a milestone after all, and it doesn't seem like a lot to ask. Expect? Deserve? Out the window with 'em. It's what you want, along with a partner who will make a few concessions because of what you want. Those are standards and they are absolutely valid.
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Old 06-20-2002, 09:55 AM
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ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love,
Galnva
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Old 06-20-2002, 10:50 AM
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Give it your best shot and keep the helmet on

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Old 06-20-2002, 11:26 AM
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JT
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Thanks Smoke!

This is unusual behavior for me...I am stating my needs. I am not abusive...I don't name call. It was a very direct, matter of fact response. He asked and I answered. Maybe turning 50 will be a turning point for me. I hope so. I have done the accepting, have let go, and do you know what. If I had an invitation to go do something with the girls on his birthday (Milestone or not) I would pass without him having to tell me. (No, not feeling sorry for myself...I just know me)

And you are right..it is about what I WANT...this time. We celebrated out 20 yr anniversary 5 months later...not a big deal....but learning to state your needs is also part of this program and like everything else we may not do it perfectly at first, but you've got to start somewhere.

My relationship with Ward is not lacking in love or security...but in respect for me. And I have said that to him in one of my moments of clarity. He is one of those Joe Sixpack kind of guys who has just begun walking upright. Endearing at times and infuriating at other times. I know he means well, but he doesn't have the skills...like I said, romantically challanged. He is honest (except when he says "I only had 2 beers...whaddaya mean I'm drunk?") and I think he means well.

Can I jump start a car with no battery? <img border="0" alt="[Jump]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/jump.gif" />
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Old 06-20-2002, 02:09 PM
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Wow - I go to work and look at what I miss.

Smoke - I printed that one out. You have such a gift with words, I don't know why you're not a great author - but you sure can make me think and laugh at the same time.

And JT

I agree with you (and we could BOTH be wrong, but hey...what are the odds?), it is your day and you should get to plan it. I guess it depends on the person you are dealing with.

My son is good with the cards, but unless I suggest something he rarely does. My husband (of 33 years this July) is much better and will usually go along with my plan. But I do remind him of important dates, and I do give him a gift list at Chrismas or my birthday and am usually more thrilled if he thinks of something himself.

I remember a year ago on Mother's Day, I suggested to my husband that instead of the cut flowers he usually buys me, I would really enjoy a rosebush, or something pretty for the garden that would bloom all summer and the next year (this was before my recovery garden). I told him it didn't matter what, just something for the garden. Now get this...he bought me 7 bags of dirt. Oh not your everyday dirt dirt, but a 3-dirt variety dirt that was supposed to be good for gardens. He seriously thought that was a nice gift and that I would enjoy it My point is that his intentions were good, so I bought my own rose bush and just said "thank you honey...nice dirt".

I think they need to be reminded of the days, and told what we would like to do, and I think they shoulld respect that for "our" special days...lord knows there are few enough of them.

Just be careful that Ward doesn't buy you a battery
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Old 06-20-2002, 04:36 PM
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You have to laugh about it...he's all gooshy right now and we may even reach a compromise. It sounds like we may do a dinner cruise on Lake Michigan off of Navy Pier. And he can still golf.

I think I like this "stating your needs" stuff...

I have never been shy about telling him what I want...and if I don't get it, like you, I just go and get it anyway. But dirt...??? <img border="0" alt="[Shocked]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/SHOCKED.gif" /> This time I want the full treatment...and I think he gets that.

Hope you had a good day..Smoke is awesome with her Anonalogies!
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Old 06-20-2002, 05:28 PM
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ladies ladies ladies.....my A dleivers 100% in the papmer Kitty department...he fears his gonads if he would forget! It is whatever Kitty wants. Kitty gets and that is for sure! Kitty made that ever so clear when she married him. Last "A" brought me a crummy $2.59 <img border="0" alt="[Mad!]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/mad3.gif" /> mum plant on my birthday etc. He was a total idiot. I guess you could say that is A# 2's only saving grace. Now I at this point in my life..... BIG DEAL...give me peace of mind!
Love, Kitty <img border="0" alt="[Hey Kitty]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/heykitty.gif" />
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Old 06-20-2002, 05:33 PM
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LMAO!!!!
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Old 06-20-2002, 09:25 PM
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I just got home,-"Nice Dirt Honey?",
I am laughing so hard! J.T., I hope
you get exactly what YOU WANT, you
deserve it!

Hugs,
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