Sneaky behavior from RA
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Sneaky behavior from RA
My husband is a RA, and as far as I know has been sober since mid-October 2013. We have been together 12 years.
He has a history of being sneaky. Usually nothing major, but little things that speak volumes. For example, when we were younger with little discretionary income, he would get cash at the ATM so I wouldn't see how often he spent money on eating in restaurants/bars. When he realized that didn't afford him any real cover, he started getting cashback from the grocery store. When the stores started indicating "cash back" on our bank statement, he found other ways to spend secret money. For a while, he had a reloadable Visa gift card his mom would put money on occasionally (seriously!), other times he would get little checks for work-related reimbursements and not tell me. This has gone on for years, through the ups and downs of finances, and still does, as he will magically have cash in his wallet without anything in our bank account indicating that should be the case. I gave up on asking why.
That's just one example of the sneaky weirdness. Of course, another was hiding his alcoholism and drinking habits, which he did very well. I've never had reason to believe he has ever cheated on me, and never suspected him of doing so. Until this morning.
His mobile rang about 20 min before he left the house for work. I happened to be standing next to where it was on the counter, or I wouldn't have known, as he permanently has it set to vibrate (hmmm). The caller ID simply said [woman's name]. He answered it gruffly, put on his professional voice and said vague things like, "Yes, sounds good. Okay then, thanks." and hung up quickly. I asked if it was a woman from work. He said yes (seemed flustered). I asked why she was calling so early. He said she needed a ride to work. I asked if this was unusual, or if he regularly gave her rides to work. He said he does pick her up on his way occasionally. Then acted annoyed that I asked.
I have never met this woman but recall him telling a story in which another coworker commented on how much this woman liked him. We just moved to this city a few months ago, so I am wondering how she was able to get to work before my husband became available to her?
I am trying to decide what to say, if anything, when he comes home from work. I didn't pick a fight this morning but he knew I thought the whole thing was weird.
If the situation were reversed, and he found out I was giving rides to a guy he didn't know, and that I had never bothered to mention these rides, he would be concerned, at the very least.
I came to the realization today that I simply don't trust my husband anymore. Maybe he's not getting it on with this lady, I don't know... but the point is that I DON'T KNOW. He's being sneaky again, and that has set off all kinds of alarms in my brain.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
He has a history of being sneaky. Usually nothing major, but little things that speak volumes. For example, when we were younger with little discretionary income, he would get cash at the ATM so I wouldn't see how often he spent money on eating in restaurants/bars. When he realized that didn't afford him any real cover, he started getting cashback from the grocery store. When the stores started indicating "cash back" on our bank statement, he found other ways to spend secret money. For a while, he had a reloadable Visa gift card his mom would put money on occasionally (seriously!), other times he would get little checks for work-related reimbursements and not tell me. This has gone on for years, through the ups and downs of finances, and still does, as he will magically have cash in his wallet without anything in our bank account indicating that should be the case. I gave up on asking why.
That's just one example of the sneaky weirdness. Of course, another was hiding his alcoholism and drinking habits, which he did very well. I've never had reason to believe he has ever cheated on me, and never suspected him of doing so. Until this morning.
His mobile rang about 20 min before he left the house for work. I happened to be standing next to where it was on the counter, or I wouldn't have known, as he permanently has it set to vibrate (hmmm). The caller ID simply said [woman's name]. He answered it gruffly, put on his professional voice and said vague things like, "Yes, sounds good. Okay then, thanks." and hung up quickly. I asked if it was a woman from work. He said yes (seemed flustered). I asked why she was calling so early. He said she needed a ride to work. I asked if this was unusual, or if he regularly gave her rides to work. He said he does pick her up on his way occasionally. Then acted annoyed that I asked.
I have never met this woman but recall him telling a story in which another coworker commented on how much this woman liked him. We just moved to this city a few months ago, so I am wondering how she was able to get to work before my husband became available to her?
I am trying to decide what to say, if anything, when he comes home from work. I didn't pick a fight this morning but he knew I thought the whole thing was weird.
If the situation were reversed, and he found out I was giving rides to a guy he didn't know, and that I had never bothered to mention these rides, he would be concerned, at the very least.
I came to the realization today that I simply don't trust my husband anymore. Maybe he's not getting it on with this lady, I don't know... but the point is that I DON'T KNOW. He's being sneaky again, and that has set off all kinds of alarms in my brain.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
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HI,
These issues are not unique just to recovered A's or A's in general.. Hiding money and having secret friends of the opposite sex happen in non-a relationships too. Either one is not that suspicious, but together I would notice the pattern of deceit. Have you talked to him not in the heat of the moment about them? Sit down and spell out that you don't trust him because things are not adding up.
The money thing and friends of the opposite sex vary per relationship. I do not oversee my bf's spending and he does not oversee mine. We each also have friends of the opposite sex. But, nothing that would cause one another to feel inferior.
These issues are not unique just to recovered A's or A's in general.. Hiding money and having secret friends of the opposite sex happen in non-a relationships too. Either one is not that suspicious, but together I would notice the pattern of deceit. Have you talked to him not in the heat of the moment about them? Sit down and spell out that you don't trust him because things are not adding up.
The money thing and friends of the opposite sex vary per relationship. I do not oversee my bf's spending and he does not oversee mine. We each also have friends of the opposite sex. But, nothing that would cause one another to feel inferior.
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drinkpraylove, my A has done all sorts of conniving to be able to spend money w/o my knowledge also--we don't have to approve every penny that each other spends, by any means, but he knew that I would surely wonder where a couple hundred dollars every 2 or 3 weeks was going. We put virtually every household expense, gas for the cars, even utilities, on the credit card and pay it off every month. There is simply nothing legit that either one of us would be spending that kind of cash on--and of course he couldn't run his liquor expenses thru the credit card when, so far as I knew, he was going to AA meetings and sober! He did always seem to have a fair amount of cash on him, but he told me "I just like to have some cash on me in case I need it", and I accepted that at face value.
Like your A, he would receive a holiday bonus at work and I'd never hear where it went. His mother would give each of us $100 at Christmas and I'd never hear what happened to it. Again, it's not that we had to account to each other, but generally if the person you live with gets a significant amount of $ as a gift or bonus, at some point they'll say "oh, I bought that such-and-so that I've been wanting" or they'll suggest going out to dinner or something--the money just doesn't disappear to never be heard about again. I thought this was odd, but I never said anything at the time, figuring after all, it was his money.
The money trail is what actually led to the revelation of his continued drinking after supposedly being sober for 4 years--I found an unexplained withdrawal from our savings (yes, he had helpfully taken over keeping the household books, something I used to do) and the house of cards began to fall apart. A lot of things made sense all of a sudden.
I got really controlling about money. I wanted every single penny accounted for. I wanted him to keep track of the dollars he put in the basket at meetings once he started actually going, instead of only pretending! Fairly soon I realized this was nuts and that I'd just have to let go and trust that I'd see what to do more clearly as time went by.
I have never really worried about him cheating, but sometimes situations make me a bit uncomfortable. For instance, I attended an open AA meeting w/him a few months ago. Virtually everyone he introduced me to was female. I wondered what else I might not know about....
We are still married, I'm doing my best to work my program, and so far as I know, he is working his. It will take some time to regain the trust, especially as only a few months ago, I again found a withdrawal that I knew nothing about. When questioned, he admitted he'd "been thinking about drinking." So yeah, that was a bit of a setback.
I have no helpful advice or words of wisdom, just wanted to say that your situation and mine certainly have similarities. Here's wishing both of us clarity to see truly what we need to do and the strength to do it once it's clear.
Like your A, he would receive a holiday bonus at work and I'd never hear where it went. His mother would give each of us $100 at Christmas and I'd never hear what happened to it. Again, it's not that we had to account to each other, but generally if the person you live with gets a significant amount of $ as a gift or bonus, at some point they'll say "oh, I bought that such-and-so that I've been wanting" or they'll suggest going out to dinner or something--the money just doesn't disappear to never be heard about again. I thought this was odd, but I never said anything at the time, figuring after all, it was his money.
The money trail is what actually led to the revelation of his continued drinking after supposedly being sober for 4 years--I found an unexplained withdrawal from our savings (yes, he had helpfully taken over keeping the household books, something I used to do) and the house of cards began to fall apart. A lot of things made sense all of a sudden.
I got really controlling about money. I wanted every single penny accounted for. I wanted him to keep track of the dollars he put in the basket at meetings once he started actually going, instead of only pretending! Fairly soon I realized this was nuts and that I'd just have to let go and trust that I'd see what to do more clearly as time went by.
I have never really worried about him cheating, but sometimes situations make me a bit uncomfortable. For instance, I attended an open AA meeting w/him a few months ago. Virtually everyone he introduced me to was female. I wondered what else I might not know about....
We are still married, I'm doing my best to work my program, and so far as I know, he is working his. It will take some time to regain the trust, especially as only a few months ago, I again found a withdrawal that I knew nothing about. When questioned, he admitted he'd "been thinking about drinking." So yeah, that was a bit of a setback.
I have no helpful advice or words of wisdom, just wanted to say that your situation and mine certainly have similarities. Here's wishing both of us clarity to see truly what we need to do and the strength to do it once it's clear.
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You know, writing all this out just gave me an insight--it seems that when I've started dating anyone I was seriously involved with in the course of my life, they always told me some story very, very early in the relationship that turned out to be central to its eventual demise.
For instance, a guy I lived with for 5 years when I was in my early to mid-20s told me a story about how, at a friend's wedding where he stood up, he ended up sleeping w/one of the bridesmaids who was the GF of another friend. He passed this all off as a drunken mistake and claimed to feel awful about it, and I, good codie that I was even then, altho I didn't know it, soothed his poor tormented self....when we split, it was b/c he had slept with a woman he worked with--IN OUR HOUSE, IN OUR BED, when I was gone for a week for my job.
My AH told me about how, as a kid, his folks would drop him off for Sunday school. He'd walk in the front door of the building and, as his folks drove off, keep walking all the way down the hall and out the back door. He'd go do whatever kids do for about an hour, then walk home, making sure to get there before his parents would have left to pick him up (b/c if they actually went to the Sunday school, they would likely find out he'd never been there) and if they asked him about it, he'd say "oh, we got out early." Since he is from an A home, there were no questions asked--enough other drama going on in other areas. Again, here we are--this is absolutely a classic example of how he's managed so very many things around here...
Note to self: If you find yourself single again at some point, pay attention to what story you are told by any man you're seeing! Seems like this reveals more than one would know.
Back to the OP, sorry for the hijack, but thanks for the thought-provoking post and the insight it provided.
For instance, a guy I lived with for 5 years when I was in my early to mid-20s told me a story about how, at a friend's wedding where he stood up, he ended up sleeping w/one of the bridesmaids who was the GF of another friend. He passed this all off as a drunken mistake and claimed to feel awful about it, and I, good codie that I was even then, altho I didn't know it, soothed his poor tormented self....when we split, it was b/c he had slept with a woman he worked with--IN OUR HOUSE, IN OUR BED, when I was gone for a week for my job.
My AH told me about how, as a kid, his folks would drop him off for Sunday school. He'd walk in the front door of the building and, as his folks drove off, keep walking all the way down the hall and out the back door. He'd go do whatever kids do for about an hour, then walk home, making sure to get there before his parents would have left to pick him up (b/c if they actually went to the Sunday school, they would likely find out he'd never been there) and if they asked him about it, he'd say "oh, we got out early." Since he is from an A home, there were no questions asked--enough other drama going on in other areas. Again, here we are--this is absolutely a classic example of how he's managed so very many things around here...
Note to self: If you find yourself single again at some point, pay attention to what story you are told by any man you're seeing! Seems like this reveals more than one would know.
Back to the OP, sorry for the hijack, but thanks for the thought-provoking post and the insight it provided.
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Honeypig, our situations do sound very similar. We have had joint bank accounts for 11 years, and I oversee all our banking. But we don't keep strict tabs on each others spending unless it's a major purchase, or unless I'm verifying charges on our cards. So when I was seeing $100 at the ATM when we were living on a grad student budget, it got my attention!
Thanks for the input, everyone. I am so sick of never knowing what's really going on with him. It's the sneaking that bothers me more than anything. If he had said, "hey, this lady I work with needs a ride" I would have said "that's nice" and never thought about it again. But he chose to hide it. I just don't know what to think now.
Thanks for the input, everyone. I am so sick of never knowing what's really going on with him. It's the sneaking that bothers me more than anything. If he had said, "hey, this lady I work with needs a ride" I would have said "that's nice" and never thought about it again. But he chose to hide it. I just don't know what to think now.
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We have five kids, so not quite that simple. Plus, I honestly don't want to leave him. I don't like nor think I deserve to be treated this way, but in the bigger picture of our marriage/friendship/life together, it's something I would rather work on than abandon altogether. At least at this point. 
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Originally Posted by drinkpraylove 
We have five kids, so not quite that simple. Plus, I honestly don't want to leave him. I don't like nor think I deserve to be treated this way, but in the bigger picture of our marriage/friendship/life together, it's something I would rather work on than abandon altogether. At least at this point.
Three kids here.
About the only reason I am still in.
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Originally Posted by drinkpraylove
We have five kids, so not quite that simple. Plus, I honestly don't want to leave him. I don't like nor think I deserve to be treated this way, but in the bigger picture of our marriage/friendship/life together, it's something I would rather work on than abandon altogether. At least at this point.
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Do you have access to his phone records? Look up the number that called his phone at that time, since you know exactly what time she called, you'll know the number.
Check the rest of the statement for the past month or two...any phone calls or texts with that number jump out at you? There may be a few between them...that might be considered normal if it's true he just gives her a car ride...maybe to coordinate the time every once in awhile, something like that.
If he's not on the up and up, however, you'll see calls and texts to/from that number during times you wouldn't expect. Especially the middle of the night texts.
All that being said, even if you don't find any evidence, you'll probably still be wary of it. =( So, pretty much only check up in this manner if you're ok with finding out bad news.
Check the rest of the statement for the past month or two...any phone calls or texts with that number jump out at you? There may be a few between them...that might be considered normal if it's true he just gives her a car ride...maybe to coordinate the time every once in awhile, something like that.
If he's not on the up and up, however, you'll see calls and texts to/from that number during times you wouldn't expect. Especially the middle of the night texts.
All that being said, even if you don't find any evidence, you'll probably still be wary of it. =( So, pretty much only check up in this manner if you're ok with finding out bad news.
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Good question, MissFixit. I don't know, honestly. It would change something between us, fundamentally, but I don't know what my next move would be.
My gut feeling is that he's not actually doing anything *technically* wrong at this point, but the sneakiness tends to snowball. I think he sort of gets off on having little secrets from me. I've told him it reminds me of a rebellious teenager who is trying to be independent of his parents. And you'd think maybe I was a nagging harpy who brought it on myself, but I really, truly am not. I have enough keeping me busy and have no desire to parent or police my husband.
I don't know how or if this is related to his alcoholism, but I just feel like it's all connected by this common thread of compulsive behavior and deceitfulness. It's frustrating, especially since he was doing so well the past few months. His doctor prescribed Wellbutrin, which I thought was working beautifully -- he was so *present* in our relationship, like never before. Then it started triggering anxiety (so he says... I am not so sure) and he quit taking it. Now we're heading back down this same path.
Thanks for letting me work this out here... I just need to "talk" it out among others who have relationships with people who do this kind of stuff. And I really, really appreciate the feedback. It's very constructive!
My gut feeling is that he's not actually doing anything *technically* wrong at this point, but the sneakiness tends to snowball. I think he sort of gets off on having little secrets from me. I've told him it reminds me of a rebellious teenager who is trying to be independent of his parents. And you'd think maybe I was a nagging harpy who brought it on myself, but I really, truly am not. I have enough keeping me busy and have no desire to parent or police my husband.
I don't know how or if this is related to his alcoholism, but I just feel like it's all connected by this common thread of compulsive behavior and deceitfulness. It's frustrating, especially since he was doing so well the past few months. His doctor prescribed Wellbutrin, which I thought was working beautifully -- he was so *present* in our relationship, like never before. Then it started triggering anxiety (so he says... I am not so sure) and he quit taking it. Now we're heading back down this same path.
Thanks for letting me work this out here... I just need to "talk" it out among others who have relationships with people who do this kind of stuff. And I really, really appreciate the feedback. It's very constructive!
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My STBXAH did some of this too, starting coming up with reasons why he didn't have to communicate with me or be medicated per doctors orders, among a hundred other things. All of which would have been completely innocuous on their own, but together usually turned out to be him building up to drink. I agree it's part of the addictive behavior. Addiction thrives in secrecy.
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My AH has been clean same amount of time as yours.. he's working a program and I didn't really know on a day to day basis what that meant until I realized he was honest, forthcoming, and open in a way I wasn't used to. he used to do all kinds of sneaky stuff and he would lie about dumb crap.. like what time he picked up the dog..just to lie. Ive asked this board before how will I know if he's in recovery.. People have said.. you just know, its night and day... I now know that if I need to start looking through his phone etc again there's already a problem... he's almosy overly honest now.. it's completely different.. he's completely different.. the last time he started hiding stuff and being sneaky he relapsed.. so for me that would be a big red flag.
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Drinking isn't to me the hugest problem. It's all the different varieties of dishonesty and secrecy and unreliability and abuse that make having a real relationship impossible.
I have four children and I got out. Not a garden of roses here, but what we have been able to salvage of our family life is more genuine.
I thought I was helping my children by staying. Now I see that I helped them by leaving.
I have four children and I got out. Not a garden of roses here, but what we have been able to salvage of our family life is more genuine.
I thought I was helping my children by staying. Now I see that I helped them by leaving.
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Originally Posted by drinkpraylove
He answered it gruffly, put on his professional voice and said vague things like, "Yes, sounds good. Okay then, thanks." and hung up quickly........................................... .....He said she needed a ride to work. I asked if this was unusual, or if he regularly gave her rides to work. He said he does pick her up on his way occasionally. Then acted annoyed that I asked.
Just an observation....."Yes, sounds good. Okay then, thanks." doesn't sound like an "answer" if someone has just asked you for a ride to work.
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