I am . . . . Not Lois.
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I am . . . . Not Lois.
Been having fun lately with the start of local Saturday Alanoon meeting.
When we go around the room with the Introductions and everyone says, "Hi, I am . . . . "
Last week it was, "I am Sam I Am." (yunno from Doctor Suess, Green Eggs and Ham)
About half the room starts to say, "Hi Sam" . . . and then stops and says -- No, your name is . . ."
This week it was, "I am Happy, Joyous and Free."
Yeah, annoying jerk. Folks love or hate me. No middle ground.
=================
But here is what I am thinking. About Lois Wilson (Bill W's long devoted and suffering wife).
Any of the Hard Core, Long Term Alanannies or Alanoners on here understand her?
And why she would put up with the DECADES of Bill W's Dry Drunk Douchebaggery?
I really do not think I am inclined to.
I am . . . . Not Lois.
When we go around the room with the Introductions and everyone says, "Hi, I am . . . . "
Last week it was, "I am Sam I Am." (yunno from Doctor Suess, Green Eggs and Ham)
About half the room starts to say, "Hi Sam" . . . and then stops and says -- No, your name is . . ."
This week it was, "I am Happy, Joyous and Free."
Yeah, annoying jerk. Folks love or hate me. No middle ground.
=================
But here is what I am thinking. About Lois Wilson (Bill W's long devoted and suffering wife).
Any of the Hard Core, Long Term Alanannies or Alanoners on here understand her?
And why she would put up with the DECADES of Bill W's Dry Drunk Douchebaggery?
I really do not think I am inclined to.
I am . . . . Not Lois.
I think the world was a very different place back then. Before women's rights and equal opportunities. Marriage was a woman's job/financial means/identity/purpose/social acceptance. I was born after ERA stuff, so I do not know what it was like for those women, but it sounds horrible. Marriage as duty and all that. Yuck.
I think she wanted to maintain her marriage and he was very dominant over her. Not to mention the "charm" that many A's have.
I think she wanted to maintain her marriage and he was very dominant over her. Not to mention the "charm" that many A's have.
Still I rise.
Join Date: Mar 2012
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I'll posit some reasons as to why women, from Lois to women today, remain with jerks:
Women, by and large, are STILL raised to think it's their duty to remain the devoted wife/mother. Some do not have the emotional strength to leave. Some do not have the financial means to leave. Some are too scared to face the world alone. Others do not want to give up any vestige of privilege (financial/social) that they may be experiencing by staying with their spouse. Some feel safer in the mirage of a relationship than no relationship at all and use elaborate methods of denial and rationalizations to justify their choice to stay.
They'd rather have a douchebag of a man than no man b/c a woman is taught from a young age that her value is somehow tied to being with one. Some women choose to remain in a shell of a marriage rather than find the strength and face the prospect of being on their own because they don't know HOW they are going to forge ahead with an independent life. Lois probably had even less opportunities to create a new life without Bill. Child/Spousal support laws were not the way they are today. Employment opportunities were also limited for women.
I think it's awesome you don't equate yourself with Lois.
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I think the world was a very different place back then. Before women's rights and equal opportunities. Marriage was a woman's job/financial means/identity/purpose/social acceptance. I was born after ERA stuff, so I do not know what it was like for those women, but it sounds horrible. Marriage as duty and all that. Yuck.
I think she wanted to maintain her marriage and he was very dominant over her. Not to mention the "charm" that many A's have.
That A "charm" thing I hear of from time-to-time.
My A must have been missing class that day or something.
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Even when I am not here, I wind hearing about from the kids because it starts with, "Mom was saying (telling lies) ______________ about you to so and so . . . . "
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Why do women (and some men) put up with days, months, or decades of abuse or addiction or both?
I'll posit some reasons as to why women, from Lois to women today, remain with jerks:
Women, by and large, are STILL raised to think it's their duty to remain the devoted wife/mother. Some do not have the emotional strength to leave. Some do not have the financial means to leave. Some are too scared to face the world alone. Others do not want to give up any vestige of privilege (financial/social) that they may be experiencing by staying with their spouse. Some feel safer in the mirage of a relationship than no relationship at all and use elaborate methods of denial and rationalizations to justify their choice to stay.
I'll posit some reasons as to why women, from Lois to women today, remain with jerks:
Women, by and large, are STILL raised to think it's their duty to remain the devoted wife/mother. Some do not have the emotional strength to leave. Some do not have the financial means to leave. Some are too scared to face the world alone. Others do not want to give up any vestige of privilege (financial/social) that they may be experiencing by staying with their spouse. Some feel safer in the mirage of a relationship than no relationship at all and use elaborate methods of denial and rationalizations to justify their choice to stay.
They'd rather have a douchebag of a man than no man b/c a woman is taught from a young age that her value is somehow tied to being with one. Some women choose to remain in a shell of a marriage rather than find the strength and face the prospect of being on their own because they don't know HOW they are going to forge ahead with an independent life. Lois probably had even less opportunities to create a new life without Bill. Child/Spousal support laws were not the way they are today. Employment opportunities were also limited for women.
Do you follow that as far as the money and Bill and Lois, it was pretty much the other way around?
She went to work and he was basically a bum?
I think it's awesome you don't equate yourself with Lois.
Good for YOU.
Still I rise.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oh Canada!
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Thanks for the kudos on my sobriety. I don't work THE program. I work my own kinda recovery!
Good luck with your situation and have a great day
May also be a little "better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't" mentality as well.
Some women only feel good about themselves when they are part of a couple. Super codependence. Some women define their identity through a man. It is a gender thing that fortunately is being evolved out socially. The most important thing for them is to be in a marriage. That is the only way they can accept themselves. They are very afraid to be alone ultimately.
To be single (like myself) there is A LOT of self confidence I must have to get along in the world...and I am even in a relationship right now. Single women are about as welcome as lepers in most social situations where I live in the south. Most women cannot handle that.
To be single (like myself) there is A LOT of self confidence I must have to get along in the world...and I am even in a relationship right now. Single women are about as welcome as lepers in most social situations where I live in the south. Most women cannot handle that.
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Some women only feel good about themselves when they are part of a couple. Super codependence. Some women define their identity through a man. It is a gender thing that fortunately is being evolved out socially. The most important thing for them is to be in a marriage. That is the only way they can accept themselves. They are very afraid to be alone ultimately.
To be single (like myself) there is A LOT of self confidence I must have to get along in the world...and I am even in a relationship right now. Single women are about as welcome as lepers in most social situations where I live in the south. Most women cannot handle that.
To be single (like myself) there is A LOT of self confidence I must have to get along in the world...and I am even in a relationship right now. Single women are about as welcome as lepers in most social situations where I live in the south. Most women cannot handle that.
Am not really inclined to be, and do not really want to be.
Like guys on work sites say about jobs . . . Was looking for one when I found this one. (meaning they can get another next week -- fairly effective way to blow-off Drama Based management.)
I was looking for a wife when Mrs. Hammer showed up and "applied" for the job. I know that sounds like a bad joke, but really exactly what happened.
In some of the groups I travel with there are a couple of long-term single women, and most everyone seems good with that. But we is nerds. Some folks seem to freak over the single guys, thinking about it.
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Not that it matters one way or another to me...but I agree lois lived in another time and place. I dont really know much about Lois and Bills relationship. But maybe Lois didnt like boys so she really didnt care so much about Bill except that she maybe just needed a "husband". Just devils advocate since your poseing a thought provoking question. You cant speculate about what/why makes someone choose what they do to sometimes just survive. So we can only do what we need for us ourselves to survive in our own unique situations I guess?
I guess I do not figure I would be alone too long.
Am not really inclined to be, and do not really want to be.
Like guys on work sites say about jobs . . . Was looking for one when I found this one. (meaning they can get another next week -- fairly effective way to blow-off Drama Based management.)
I was looking for a wife when Mrs. Hammer showed up and "applied" for the job. I know that sounds like a bad joke, but really exactly what happened.
In some of the groups I travel with there are a couple of long-term single women, and most everyone seems good with that. But we is nerds. Some folks seem to freak over the single guys, thinking about it.
Am not really inclined to be, and do not really want to be.
Like guys on work sites say about jobs . . . Was looking for one when I found this one. (meaning they can get another next week -- fairly effective way to blow-off Drama Based management.)
I was looking for a wife when Mrs. Hammer showed up and "applied" for the job. I know that sounds like a bad joke, but really exactly what happened.
In some of the groups I travel with there are a couple of long-term single women, and most everyone seems good with that. But we is nerds. Some folks seem to freak over the single guys, thinking about it.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Not that it matters one way or another to me...but I agree lois lived in another time and place. I dont really know much about Lois and Bills relationship. But maybe Lois didnt like boys so she really didnt care so much about Bill except that she maybe just needed a mate. Just devils advocate since your poseing a thought provoking question. You can never know what/why makes someone choose what they do to sometimes just survive. So we can only do what we need for us ourselves to survive in kur own unique situations I guess?
(FDR and Eleanor, that is).
Eleanor Roosevelt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Actually thats HOW AA started... The first meetings were in their home. Wives waited in the cars until lois started having them in the kitchen for coffee. At least thats how I remember the movie I saw years ago.
Hammer, if you were in my meeting I would be cross talking and cutting up.
I've been thinking why I stay.
1. Fear of failure. Coming to grips with spirituality/sin of divorce.
2. Fear I still love him though this feeling is transient (damn my heart)
3. Realization I'd just pick another emotionally mucked up partner (devil u know)
4. Family unit - lack of family in area to help/support so single mom is SOLO
5. Comfort in routine - divide of work/cost of living by a dedicated partner
6. Fear of being alone - though I feel this way in relationship
7. This man is my best friend and in some ways he does know me better than anyone
8. Fear of making a final decision
9. Fear of abandonment - mine and his
10. I promised time - I've made it to Step 4 in 11 mo so I try to focus on me and not RAH
I've been thinking why I stay.
1. Fear of failure. Coming to grips with spirituality/sin of divorce.
2. Fear I still love him though this feeling is transient (damn my heart)
3. Realization I'd just pick another emotionally mucked up partner (devil u know)
4. Family unit - lack of family in area to help/support so single mom is SOLO
5. Comfort in routine - divide of work/cost of living by a dedicated partner
6. Fear of being alone - though I feel this way in relationship
7. This man is my best friend and in some ways he does know me better than anyone
8. Fear of making a final decision
9. Fear of abandonment - mine and his
10. I promised time - I've made it to Step 4 in 11 mo so I try to focus on me and not RAH
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
I've been thinking why I stay.
1. Fear of failure. Coming to grips with spirituality/sin of divorce.
1. Fear of failure. Coming to grips with spirituality/sin of divorce.
2. Fear I still love him though this feeling is transient (damn my heart)
3. Realization I'd just pick another emotionally mucked up partner (devil u know)
4. Family unit - lack of family in area to help/support so single mom is SOLO
5. Comfort in routine - divide of work/cost of living by a dedicated partner
6. Fear of being alone - though I feel this way in relationship
7. This man is my best friend and in some ways he does know me better than anyone
8. Fear of making a final decision
9. Fear of abandonment - mine and his
10. I promised time - I've made it to Step 4 in 11 mo so I try to focus on me and not RAH
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
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