When it's impossible to stand by your man
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When it's impossible to stand by your man
I know that when you are married you are one. And even though your spouse may not be 100% right, in public you defend them, and behind closed doors set them straight. That's what you do when you're married--at least that's what I've heard
But what if that's really hard?
My AH has recently done some things that are hard for me to justify, publicly and privately, mainly as a result of drinking, and also as a result of just being narcissistic and stubborn. For instance, my first grandchild was just born. DS told his father NOT to come to the hospital at the same time his in-laws were there. We could go ANY OTHER TIME, but NOT when the in-laws were there, because there are a lot of them. Well, he went anyway, drunk, and obnoxious, and smelling of urine.
As a result, he had a falling out with DS. DS did accuse him of a laundry list of stuff, which could have been done with more consideration and "I" statements. But DH did a counterattack that included insulting DDIL.
Now AH/DS are not speaking, and they live here under our roof!! (not for long--they just signed a lease for an apartment).
I am doing all I can to stay neutral and out of it, but it is hard. And I can't defend my husband. He was a jerk. I've told DS to try to be kind--not to excuse him, but to try to detach given the alcoholism, but honestly, I don't want to support AH on this. I don't. He hurt my son and my new DDIL. And he's just being pig-headed, which is hurting him in the long run because he's not going to be able to see his own GS.
I think about that scene in Amadeus when Mozart's wife comes out and rails on the producer of the opera who commissioned Mozart, defending Mozart even when their marriage was falling apart.
God forgive me, I don't know if I can be that wife..
But what if that's really hard?
My AH has recently done some things that are hard for me to justify, publicly and privately, mainly as a result of drinking, and also as a result of just being narcissistic and stubborn. For instance, my first grandchild was just born. DS told his father NOT to come to the hospital at the same time his in-laws were there. We could go ANY OTHER TIME, but NOT when the in-laws were there, because there are a lot of them. Well, he went anyway, drunk, and obnoxious, and smelling of urine.
As a result, he had a falling out with DS. DS did accuse him of a laundry list of stuff, which could have been done with more consideration and "I" statements. But DH did a counterattack that included insulting DDIL.
Now AH/DS are not speaking, and they live here under our roof!! (not for long--they just signed a lease for an apartment).
I am doing all I can to stay neutral and out of it, but it is hard. And I can't defend my husband. He was a jerk. I've told DS to try to be kind--not to excuse him, but to try to detach given the alcoholism, but honestly, I don't want to support AH on this. I don't. He hurt my son and my new DDIL. And he's just being pig-headed, which is hurting him in the long run because he's not going to be able to see his own GS.
I think about that scene in Amadeus when Mozart's wife comes out and rails on the producer of the opera who commissioned Mozart, defending Mozart even when their marriage was falling apart.
God forgive me, I don't know if I can be that wife..
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There are no rules as far as I am concerned. My husband, who is not an addict, is his own person. We are married; we are not "one". If he chooses to behave badly in a social situation, the consequences are his. I couldn't take ownership of them if I wanted to. I recognize, however, that my circumstances are different. DH is generally well-behaved. When he messes up, or when I do -- we accept our responsibility and our consequences as best we can.
You have to be true to yourself and protect your integrity. Losing your protection or defense of his behavior is a consequence of drinking, and we are not here to keep them from their consequences. I know it feels like his behavior reflects on you -- but protecting or defending him reflects on you as well. You get to decide what's right for you without being beholden to any made-up social rules for married people. You have to live with you at the end of the day.
You have to be true to yourself and protect your integrity. Losing your protection or defense of his behavior is a consequence of drinking, and we are not here to keep them from their consequences. I know it feels like his behavior reflects on you -- but protecting or defending him reflects on you as well. You get to decide what's right for you without being beholden to any made-up social rules for married people. You have to live with you at the end of the day.
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Well, he went anyway, drunk, and obnoxious, and smelling of urine.
Your son set a clear boundary and your husband violated it in the most obnoxious way possible. There's no reason for you to put yourself in the middle of it. You husband should experience these consequences. And I'm sorry that such a joyous occasion was tarnished by his poor choices and bad behavior.
Congratulations on the birth of your grandchild. And I think that the whole "standing by your man" thing ceases to apply when your man is no longer capable of standing on his own. Is this how you want to spend your golden years? With your "granny time" restricted and infringed upon by an alcoholic's unpredictable behavior?
Your son set a clear boundary and your husband violated it in the most obnoxious way possible. There's no reason for you to put yourself in the middle of it. You husband should experience these consequences. And I'm sorry that such a joyous occasion was tarnished by his poor choices and bad behavior.
Congratulations on the birth of your grandchild. And I think that the whole "standing by your man" thing ceases to apply when your man is no longer capable of standing on his own. Is this how you want to spend your golden years? With your "granny time" restricted and infringed upon by an alcoholic's unpredictable behavior?
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Originally Posted by SoloMio 
I know that when you are married you are one.
As for the situation I think it's between your son and your AH - your son is doing well IMHO setting a boundary.
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Originally Posted by SoloMio
I know that when you are married you are one. And even though your spouse may not be 100% right, in public you defend them, and behind closed doors set them straight. That's what you do when you're married--at least that's what I've heard
But what if that's really hard?
My AH has recently done some things that are hard for me to justify, publicly and privately, mainly as a result of drinking, and also as a result of just being narcissistic and stubborn. For instance, my first grandchild was just born. DS told his father NOT to come to the hospital at the same time his in-laws were there. We could go ANY OTHER TIME, but NOT when the in-laws were there, because there are a lot of them. Well, he went anyway, drunk, and obnoxious, and smelling of urine.
As a result, he had a falling out with DS. DS did accuse him of a laundry list of stuff, which could have been done with more consideration and "I" statements. But DH did a counterattack that included insulting DDIL.
Now AH/DS are not speaking, and they live here under our roof!! (not for long--they just signed a lease for an apartment).
I am doing all I can to stay neutral and out of it, but it is hard. And I can't defend my husband. He was a jerk. I've told DS to try to be kind--not to excuse him, but to try to detach given the alcoholism, but honestly, I don't want to support AH on this. I don't. He hurt my son and my new DDIL. And he's just being pig-headed, which is hurting him in the long run because he's not going to be able to see his own GS.
I think about that scene in Amadeus when Mozart's wife comes out and rails on the producer of the opera who commissioned Mozart, defending Mozart even when their marriage was falling apart.
God forgive me, I don't know if I can be that wife..
But what if that's really hard?
My AH has recently done some things that are hard for me to justify, publicly and privately, mainly as a result of drinking, and also as a result of just being narcissistic and stubborn. For instance, my first grandchild was just born. DS told his father NOT to come to the hospital at the same time his in-laws were there. We could go ANY OTHER TIME, but NOT when the in-laws were there, because there are a lot of them. Well, he went anyway, drunk, and obnoxious, and smelling of urine.
As a result, he had a falling out with DS. DS did accuse him of a laundry list of stuff, which could have been done with more consideration and "I" statements. But DH did a counterattack that included insulting DDIL.
Now AH/DS are not speaking, and they live here under our roof!! (not for long--they just signed a lease for an apartment).
I am doing all I can to stay neutral and out of it, but it is hard. And I can't defend my husband. He was a jerk. I've told DS to try to be kind--not to excuse him, but to try to detach given the alcoholism, but honestly, I don't want to support AH on this. I don't. He hurt my son and my new DDIL. And he's just being pig-headed, which is hurting him in the long run because he's not going to be able to see his own GS.
I think about that scene in Amadeus when Mozart's wife comes out and rails on the producer of the opera who commissioned Mozart, defending Mozart even when their marriage was falling apart.
God forgive me, I don't know if I can be that wife..
Detach and don't get in the middle. It sounds like son is leaving soon, so can you just fake it or avoid it until he leaves?
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Thanks, all... I appreciate your comments.
MissFixit: that's what I'm thinking... just get through the next couple of weeks. DS/DDIL have no beef with me, but it's so uncomfortable when they offer to let me hold the baby but as soon as AH comes into the room, they just get frosty and leave.
Despite AH saying he'll do anything to smooth things over, he has told me that he doesn't think he did anything wrong. In fact HE feels wronged..(???) Talk about turning things around.
Oh well
MissFixit: that's what I'm thinking... just get through the next couple of weeks. DS/DDIL have no beef with me, but it's so uncomfortable when they offer to let me hold the baby but as soon as AH comes into the room, they just get frosty and leave.
Despite AH saying he'll do anything to smooth things over, he has told me that he doesn't think he did anything wrong. In fact HE feels wronged..(???) Talk about turning things around.
Oh well
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My ex was a master at getting offended by anyone who disapproved of his obnoxious drunken behavior. He'll do anything to make things right- except take responsibility for his actions.
Of course he feels wronged. People are refusing to tolerate his unacceptable behavior. Almost like he has a problem or something. But that couldn't be it. He's fine. It's everyone else in the world who's wrong. Eyeroll.
Of course he feels wronged. People are refusing to tolerate his unacceptable behavior. Almost like he has a problem or something. But that couldn't be it. He's fine. It's everyone else in the world who's wrong. Eyeroll.
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Originally Posted by Aeryn
With all due respect you lost me right with this sentence...I just strongly disagree with this statement for many reasons....the idea that this could be true in my opinion sets women back to I guess the time of Mozart. :/
As for the situation I think it's between your son and your AH - your son is doing well IMHO setting a boundary.
As for the situation I think it's between your son and your AH - your son is doing well IMHO setting a boundary.
You do not "stand by your man" anymore than he is standing by you. First and foremost, you stand up for yourself. Take care of yourself, that's all you can control.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
I think that the whole "standing by your man" thing ceases to apply when your man is no longer capable of standing on his own.
SoloMio, There's no place worse than being stuck in the middle between you're child and you're spouse. I've been there, I know. It's a special kind of hell. I say you grab that little baby, find yourself a rocking chair, and let the rest take care of the rest. Congratulations!
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One m ore thought----this is a situation that wives of prominent political figures face all the time--when the scandal hits the national news. It looks like some of them do....and, some of them don't.
I guess it ultimately comes down to what they are personally able to tolerate within themselves. a very personal thing......
For me--I know that living under the same roof with an out-of-control alcoholic was so hellish that I could never....ever return to it again. Would rather live in a refridgerator box.
dandylion
I guess it ultimately comes down to what they are personally able to tolerate within themselves. a very personal thing......
For me--I know that living under the same roof with an out-of-control alcoholic was so hellish that I could never....ever return to it again. Would rather live in a refridgerator box.
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Gosh---I wonder if Tammy Wynette's husband was a drunk.........?What if the song was: "Stand By Your Unethical Man"
dandylion
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What I meant by being "one" in marriage was more related to something I heard a therapist say about if you can't be in the same boat, paddling together, with your husband you're in trouble.
I didn't really mean like joined at the hip--although I'm sure I am in a lot of ways when I act codependently.
Aeryn, I laughed at your comment because it reminded me of my Victorian era great-aunt who was married at the time women got the vote, but she voted exactly the same as her husband because she thought that was her "wifely duty." I don't think that way! I hope I'm more like the Gibran way of "Let there be spaces in your togetherness."
That being said, I am resolved to shut up about the entire incident and let AH deal with the consequences.
dandylion, you're right--a lot of wives of politicians have made choices to "stand by their men," although Hillary was famous for saying on national TV that she was NOT doing that. When it comes to "right" and "wrong" in a marriage and behaving in ways that are true to it vs. not, I have told my daughter that marriage is all about agreements. If you and your spouse agree to pursue other relationships outside the confines of marriage, "infidelity" takes on a different meaning. No one can tell you you should leave if your husband fools around, if you have agreed to that. Some agreements are silent--like turning a blind eye to certain things. Rose Kennedy did a lot of that. I read how after she found out about Joe, she made her own life, and he didn't interfere with that. That was their agreement, although probably unspoken.
If you have a husband who constantly breaks agreements, that's the definition of a broken marriage, in my mind. How can a person live with that?
Thank you for your comments.
I didn't really mean like joined at the hip--although I'm sure I am in a lot of ways when I act codependently.
Aeryn, I laughed at your comment because it reminded me of my Victorian era great-aunt who was married at the time women got the vote, but she voted exactly the same as her husband because she thought that was her "wifely duty." I don't think that way! I hope I'm more like the Gibran way of "Let there be spaces in your togetherness."
That being said, I am resolved to shut up about the entire incident and let AH deal with the consequences.
dandylion, you're right--a lot of wives of politicians have made choices to "stand by their men," although Hillary was famous for saying on national TV that she was NOT doing that. When it comes to "right" and "wrong" in a marriage and behaving in ways that are true to it vs. not, I have told my daughter that marriage is all about agreements. If you and your spouse agree to pursue other relationships outside the confines of marriage, "infidelity" takes on a different meaning. No one can tell you you should leave if your husband fools around, if you have agreed to that. Some agreements are silent--like turning a blind eye to certain things. Rose Kennedy did a lot of that. I read how after she found out about Joe, she made her own life, and he didn't interfere with that. That was their agreement, although probably unspoken.
If you have a husband who constantly breaks agreements, that's the definition of a broken marriage, in my mind. How can a person live with that?
Thank you for your comments.
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Thankfully RAH and I get along in a canoe.
In early days of my marriage we tried playing racquetball together. He was better than me which made me perturbed. I changed the rules to hitting him with the ball as often as possible which made me totally crack up and feel way too wonderful. Must have been those concrete walls that triggered my need to just whale on him? Maybe to release my anger I need a racquetball court!
In early days of my marriage we tried playing racquetball together. He was better than me which made me perturbed. I changed the rules to hitting him with the ball as often as possible which made me totally crack up and feel way too wonderful. Must have been those concrete walls that triggered my need to just whale on him? Maybe to release my anger I need a racquetball court!
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So, I think I've found the roots of my belief system that you have to put up and shut up and defend no matter what.
Thinking about this a little more and putting it in context, I grew up in the 50s and 60s. In my teens I was absolutely in LOVE with musical theatre. I knew every song and would sing the songs over and over and over.
Here are some of my favorites:
From the King and I:
From Carousel:
And from Oliver!
Of course all of these songs were written by men. I especially like the lyric "And something gave him the things that are his, One of those things is you."
So I'm a thing possessed by a man. Sheesh. No wonder I'm codependent! These songs were my lullabies!! And my anthems!
So, anyone have a different playlist to offer me?
Thinking about this a little more and putting it in context, I grew up in the 50s and 60s. In my teens I was absolutely in LOVE with musical theatre. I knew every song and would sing the songs over and over and over.
Here are some of my favorites:
From the King and I:
This is a man who thinks with his heart
His heart is not always wise
This is a man who stumbles and falls
But this is a man who tries
This is a man you'll forgive and forgive
And help protect, as long as you live
He will not always say, what you would have him say
But now and then he'll say something wonderful
The thoughtless things he'll do, will hurt and worry you
And all at once he'll do something wonderful
He has a thousand dreams that won't come true
You know that he believes in them and that's enough for you
You'll always go along defend him when he's wrong
And tell him, when he's strong he is wonderful
He'll always needs your love and so he'll get your love
A man who needs your love can be wonderful
His heart is not always wise
This is a man who stumbles and falls
But this is a man who tries
This is a man you'll forgive and forgive
And help protect, as long as you live
He will not always say, what you would have him say
But now and then he'll say something wonderful
The thoughtless things he'll do, will hurt and worry you
And all at once he'll do something wonderful
He has a thousand dreams that won't come true
You know that he believes in them and that's enough for you
You'll always go along defend him when he's wrong
And tell him, when he's strong he is wonderful
He'll always needs your love and so he'll get your love
A man who needs your love can be wonderful
Common sense may tell you
That the ending will be sad,
And now's the time to break and run away.
But what's the use of wond'ring
If the ending will be sad?
He's your feller and you love him,
There's nothing more to say.
Something made him the way that he is,
Whether he's false or true,
And something gave him the things that are his,
One of those things is you, so
When he wants your kisses,
You will give them to the lad,
And anywhere he leads you, you will walk.
And anytime he needs you,
You'll go running there like mad.
You're his girl and he's your feller,
And all the rest is talk.
That the ending will be sad,
And now's the time to break and run away.
But what's the use of wond'ring
If the ending will be sad?
He's your feller and you love him,
There's nothing more to say.
Something made him the way that he is,
Whether he's false or true,
And something gave him the things that are his,
One of those things is you, so
When he wants your kisses,
You will give them to the lad,
And anywhere he leads you, you will walk.
And anytime he needs you,
You'll go running there like mad.
You're his girl and he's your feller,
And all the rest is talk.
As long as he needs me...
Oh, yes, he does need me...
In spite of what you see...
...I'm sure that he needs me.
Who else would love him still
When they've been used so ill?
He knows I always will...
As long as he needs me.
He doesn't say the things he should.
He acts the way he thinks he should.
But all the same,
I'll play
This game
His way.
When someone needs you,
You love them so.
I won't betray his trust...
Though people say I must.
I've got to stay true, just
As long as he needs me.
Oh, yes, he does need me...
In spite of what you see...
...I'm sure that he needs me.
Who else would love him still
When they've been used so ill?
He knows I always will...
As long as he needs me.
He doesn't say the things he should.
He acts the way he thinks he should.
But all the same,
I'll play
This game
His way.
When someone needs you,
You love them so.
I won't betray his trust...
Though people say I must.
I've got to stay true, just
As long as he needs me.
So I'm a thing possessed by a man. Sheesh. No wonder I'm codependent! These songs were my lullabies!! And my anthems!
So, anyone have a different playlist to offer me?
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Originally Posted by SoloMio
So, I think I've found the roots of my belief system that you have to put up and shut up and defend no matter what.
Thinking about this a little more and putting it in context, I grew up in the 50s and 60s. In my teens I was absolutely in LOVE with musical theatre. I knew every song and would sing the songs over and over and over.
Here are some of my favorites:
From the King and I:
From Carousel:
And from Oliver!
Of course all of these songs were written by men. I especially like the lyric "And something gave him the things that are his, One of those things is you."
So I'm a thing possessed by a man. Sheesh. No wonder I'm codependent! These songs were my lullabies!! And my anthems!
So, anyone have a different playlist to offer me?
Thinking about this a little more and putting it in context, I grew up in the 50s and 60s. In my teens I was absolutely in LOVE with musical theatre. I knew every song and would sing the songs over and over and over.
Here are some of my favorites:
From the King and I:
From Carousel:
And from Oliver!
Of course all of these songs were written by men. I especially like the lyric "And something gave him the things that are his, One of those things is you."
So I'm a thing possessed by a man. Sheesh. No wonder I'm codependent! These songs were my lullabies!! And my anthems!
So, anyone have a different playlist to offer me?
Blondie
Madonna
Tori Amos
Shawn Colvin (spelling)
Pretenders
Edie Brickell
KD Lang
Heart
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Thanks, MissFixIt! Any specific songs you find empowering?
Hammer, I am definitely standing by my son on this. I have an open invitation to hang out at his new place. He's very disappointed that this stay with us (since December) has not panned out the say he had hoped. And his father has spent years telling the kids that all he wants is for the whole family to live together in one big house... I guess if we all lived here according to his rules and let him run roughshod over ours, that would work out just fine for him.
Hammer, I am definitely standing by my son on this. I have an open invitation to hang out at his new place. He's very disappointed that this stay with us (since December) has not panned out the say he had hoped. And his father has spent years telling the kids that all he wants is for the whole family to live together in one big house... I guess if we all lived here according to his rules and let him run roughshod over ours, that would work out just fine for him.
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