If you're nerdy and you know it
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If you're nerdy and you know it
this article may be for you.
I have to warn you though, the articles is super-academic. I got through it but I think my brain looks like a pretzel now.
My daughter's therapist talked to me about "epigenetics" this morning -- I had never heard the word before so I had to do some reading on it. Basically, she said, there are certain people in substance abuse counseling circles who believe that behavioral patterns/dysfunctions enshrined in the brains of children (before the age of 3) can be as influential as inherited DNA patterns when it comes to addiction -- AND that this can be traced as far as three generations back.
I found it fascinating because my parents rarely ever drank, but both have incredibly codependent behaviors. My grandparents on both sides were teetotalers. But both my great grandfathers -- were alcoholics. Interesting stuff.
Publications | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism | Update on the Genetics of Alcoholism
I have to warn you though, the articles is super-academic. I got through it but I think my brain looks like a pretzel now.
My daughter's therapist talked to me about "epigenetics" this morning -- I had never heard the word before so I had to do some reading on it. Basically, she said, there are certain people in substance abuse counseling circles who believe that behavioral patterns/dysfunctions enshrined in the brains of children (before the age of 3) can be as influential as inherited DNA patterns when it comes to addiction -- AND that this can be traced as far as three generations back.
I found it fascinating because my parents rarely ever drank, but both have incredibly codependent behaviors. My grandparents on both sides were teetotalers. But both my great grandfathers -- were alcoholics. Interesting stuff.
Publications | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism | Update on the Genetics of Alcoholism
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I bookmarked your link and am going to print and read it later--
I kind of wish I could say I was an ACOA bc it would define my childhood at least... My mom and dad barely drank but my home matches the criteria of an ACOA home to a "t".
My mom does have Borderline Personality Disorder though so maybe that matches a lot of A behaviors...
Thanks for sharing this!
I kind of wish I could say I was an ACOA bc it would define my childhood at least... My mom and dad barely drank but my home matches the criteria of an ACOA home to a "t".
My mom does have Borderline Personality Disorder though so maybe that matches a lot of A behaviors...
Thanks for sharing this!
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lillamy, I did not read the article, but I wanted to say that I've been walking around the house all afternoon singing "if you're nerdy and you know it, clap your hands" and on and on...my dogs probably think I'm cuckoo!
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I feel like your basic description describes my upbringing.
Neither of my parents have drinking concerns. Both struggle with codependency (especially my mother's family who I grew up around).
I will ready later....thanks
Though we might not consciously remember a lot until older that training I took said similars....that the stuff we get stuck on in life can be from before the age of three.
Neither of my parents have drinking concerns. Both struggle with codependency (especially my mother's family who I grew up around).
I will ready later....thanks
Though we might not consciously remember a lot until older that training I took said similars....that the stuff we get stuck on in life can be from before the age of three.
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"if you're nerdy and you know it, clap your hands"
Ditto for having all of the ACOA stuff but not growing up in an alcoholic home. My guess is that my mom's unaddressed ACOA (her dad was an alcoholic) stuff was passed down. She's also NPD.
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy 
I bookmarked your link and am going to print and read it later--
I kind of wish I could say I was an ACOA bc it would define my childhood at least... My mom and dad barely drank but my home matches the criteria of an ACOA home to a "t".
My mom does have Borderline Personality Disorder though so maybe that matches a lot of A behaviors...
Thanks for sharing this!
I kind of wish I could say I was an ACOA bc it would define my childhood at least... My mom and dad barely drank but my home matches the criteria of an ACOA home to a "t".
My mom does have Borderline Personality Disorder though so maybe that matches a lot of A behaviors...
Thanks for sharing this!
We got the combo.
==============
As far as the article.
The Hardware v. Software "argument" seems a little a little shallow when it comes to complex systems. As the article sort goes towards it is often a "both" (or more) matter, that is all good, but trying to do the knock-down (deductive science) when you have not fully compiled ALL the possible causal factors (inductive hypothesis) is a little lame.
My T and I have done some rounds on this one as well. Whether it is a Nature (hardware) or Experience (software) thing, or if they overlap. More about Mrs. Hammer's Borderline Traits, but also the various A-things. The T --- She is a PhD. Psychologist. (so she sees software -- programming and experience, as it were). I am an EE with a Neural Implant and Physiology background (so I see hardware).
Real Deal, of course, it is both (and more).
We settled it on her statement of "Borderlines create Borderlines." So for the kids -- my goal is that they not have the Crazy Making Experience(s) that enhance the illness.
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Originally Posted by lillamy
this article may be for you.
I have to warn you though, the articles is super-academic. I got through it but I think my brain looks like a pretzel now.
My daughter's therapist talked to me about "epigenetics" this morning -- I had never heard the word before so I had to do some reading on it. Basically, she said, there are certain people in substance abuse counseling circles who believe that behavioral patterns/dysfunctions enshrined in the brains of children (before the age of 3) can be as influential as inherited DNA patterns when it comes to addiction -- AND that this can be traced as far as three generations back.
I found it fascinating because my parents rarely ever drank, but both have incredibly codependent behaviors. My grandparents on both sides were teetotalers. But both my great grandfathers -- were alcoholics. Interesting stuff.
Publications | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism | Update on the Genetics of Alcoholism
I have to warn you though, the articles is super-academic. I got through it but I think my brain looks like a pretzel now.
My daughter's therapist talked to me about "epigenetics" this morning -- I had never heard the word before so I had to do some reading on it. Basically, she said, there are certain people in substance abuse counseling circles who believe that behavioral patterns/dysfunctions enshrined in the brains of children (before the age of 3) can be as influential as inherited DNA patterns when it comes to addiction -- AND that this can be traced as far as three generations back.
I found it fascinating because my parents rarely ever drank, but both have incredibly codependent behaviors. My grandparents on both sides were teetotalers. But both my great grandfathers -- were alcoholics. Interesting stuff.
Publications | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism | Update on the Genetics of Alcoholism
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Back in the 70's researchers were just beginning to look at genetics vs. environment in the passing of addiction from generation to generation. That's when they came up with "epigenetics" to try and figure it out. They thrashed around with this for a decade before one of the world's top shrinks found the key.
"Children learn what they live." It's really that simple.
In the early 80's the groundbreaking work by that shrink set off a firestorm in the world of recovery. Before her work there were only a handful of programs; Alcoholics Anonymous, Al-Anon, Narcotics Anonymous with Nar-Anon, and a few others that were having a hard time getting traction. What that shrink did was _prove_ that it is _not_ the alcoholism that gets passed from one generation to another.
It is the _dysfunction_ that gets passed. _Which_ addiction a child will grow into has _nothing_ to do with the addiction of the parents, or whether they were even addicts. Children raised in dysfunction _need_ some kind of therapy to survive as adults. Chemicals, food, adrenaline, sex, any of those will do as "self-medication". Now, if you happen to have the genetics that make you sensitized to addiction on top of childhood dysfunction, you are in a world of trouble.
Today there are nearly 200 different programs, only a handful deal with chemical addictions. The rest deal with dysfunction.
If you poke around the ACoA forum right here on SR, or anywhere else on the web, you will _not_ hear "addiction" spoken. Even the title of our "Red Book" covers it. We talk about dysfunction.
Adult Children of Addicted/Alcoholic Parents - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
p.s. yeah, I'm nerdy, I'm a psychology geek
"Children learn what they live." It's really that simple.
In the early 80's the groundbreaking work by that shrink set off a firestorm in the world of recovery. Before her work there were only a handful of programs; Alcoholics Anonymous, Al-Anon, Narcotics Anonymous with Nar-Anon, and a few others that were having a hard time getting traction. What that shrink did was _prove_ that it is _not_ the alcoholism that gets passed from one generation to another.
It is the _dysfunction_ that gets passed. _Which_ addiction a child will grow into has _nothing_ to do with the addiction of the parents, or whether they were even addicts. Children raised in dysfunction _need_ some kind of therapy to survive as adults. Chemicals, food, adrenaline, sex, any of those will do as "self-medication". Now, if you happen to have the genetics that make you sensitized to addiction on top of childhood dysfunction, you are in a world of trouble.
Today there are nearly 200 different programs, only a handful deal with chemical addictions. The rest deal with dysfunction.
If you poke around the ACoA forum right here on SR, or anywhere else on the web, you will _not_ hear "addiction" spoken. Even the title of our "Red Book" covers it. We talk about dysfunction.
Adult Children of Addicted/Alcoholic Parents - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
p.s. yeah, I'm nerdy, I'm a psychology geek
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Thank you for your post, DesertStorm. I believe you get to the heart of the issue for so many people. My mother was not "born an alcoholic". Although alcoholism does have a strong heritability factor in families where that IS part of the genetic makeup, that wasn't her family. However, her family was suuuuuper dysfunctional in a few major ways, that over the course of a few decades manifested itself in her behavior in multiple "self-medication" issues, such as compulsive shopping, and finally, an alcohol problem. Yes, she is an alcoholic, but not in the stereotypical way that I think a lot of people define it (her parents were alcoholics, and her grandparents, and all the way down the line). No one else in my family HAS a drinking problem. Just her. That's eventually how she chose to deal with her dysfunction and mental health issues. I don't believe my sister and I are "wired" to be alcoholics, and thankfully, since my mother's problems started well into our adulthood, we were already past our formative years where, thankfully, we learned healthy coping mechanisms for life's problems.
Epigenetics is tossed around all science disciplines. Things are not generally the product of JUST genes or JUST behaviors/environment. It's always nature AND nurture.
Epigenetics is tossed around all science disciplines. Things are not generally the product of JUST genes or JUST behaviors/environment. It's always nature AND nurture.
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