Florence

Narcissists employ mirroring in therapy. If the therapist is neutral or even empathetic, it means he thinks he has 100% full support. If the therapist challenges him, the therapist is bad, wrong, and stupid, and he will quit.

This is a sit back and observe kind of moment. File it away. Your AH is still using and quacking, drawing you and your son up into his bizarro narcissistic, alcoholic fantasies, nothing new here.

Thlayli

My sister is having a similar problem with her DH (his issue isn't addiction though). She's been through enough therapy that she can easily identify "I need A, B and C if you want to have sex. If you do D or E it is absolutely not going to happen." He still doesn't get that she means what she says and that somehow continuing D and E or mixing it with A or throwing in F and G will eventually get him what he wants. It's like they're speaking different languages.

MissFixit

Manipulation. Why do you believe what HE says the therapist says about his lack of sex. I cannot imagine a therapist saying "I feel sorry for you for not having sex." I can see a therapist saying that it must be frustrating and what can you (HE) do to repair your relationship. He says I gave her flowers...but no mention of the horrible behavior. Therapists are pretty wise to that stuff.

lizatola

Because he showed me HER notes from their session. All I know about her is that she is 4 years out of grad school and starting out on her own right now. I'm thinking he's going to eat her alive. But, that's his thing and not mine. I just don't want to know nor need to know what goes on in HIS therapy session. Apparently, she types up notes on the session and book recommendations and then gives them to her clients.

She also recommended that he read, "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." I read that book about 3 years ago, maybe I should dig out my copy for him? I don't think he realized that I saw the book recommendation at the bottom of the page, though, because he didn't refer to it in our discussion.

Florence

LOL Oh boy.

Well, continuing education is a good thing for therapists. She'll get one with him.

MissFixit

Then she is not experienced enough with his personality type to recognize it or she has another method that involves some long process (she sees what he is but has to earn his trust before she can subtly try to get him to see other perspectives). If she doesn't see it, then you ah might not get much from the sessions other than a pat on the back. Don't know. Since these sessions are for your ah, then the "therapy" is for him, not you. Sometimes what is ultimately good or desired by one is not good or acceptable to the other. People are different and have different needs. Such is life.

Why are you two discussing his therapy sessions? Regardless of what the T says, if he is trying to "prove" he needs sex and does enough for you, then do you think that he is manipulating you by showing you the "doctor's note for sex" (hehe). What you want is up to you, not him or his T. Do you talk with your T about this problem? It might help you to address it with your T, so she/he can give you ideas. It sounds like neither of you is getting what you need/want from the relationship. That is okay. It happens. How you choose to handle it is up to you.

lizatola

LOL! That's what MY therapist said.

MissFixIt: 'we' are not discussing these things. I don't ask. He chooses to share most likely out of manipulation. I try to skirt the issue, change the subject, and move on with my day. I truly believe it's none of my business.

Although, I'd love to find out what he thinks of the book.....

CodeJob

Hmmm. I bought myself flowers last Sunday. Maybe I need to just lock the door to the MBR and let everyone wonder what I am doing with that new electric toothbrush?

But returning to fear, I am really afraid of walking away from my marriage. I do not know how to make this decision and feel at peace about it. It makes me sick to give up and admit I could not save my 20 year relationship and walked away because I wanted to get laid and felt lonely in my marriage. It makes me sick to think I would stay because I have a hang up with not failing and too much perseverance. I love RAH but this love is so battered and worn I often just feel like it is a ragged blanket. I keep it more for sentiment than any useful warmth. I am really really struggling with our relationship and believe me this is what me and my HP are meditating about constantly... So far my anxiety level is just creeping up and up. Do I let go by giving up on the marriage or let go by giving it more time? I have mostly ruled out having an outside relationship/affair as I think it would mess with my head and I am too darn moral. Even if I had the guts to ask for an open relationship, I don't think I could do it.

Probably the best thing I can do is just keep working on spring cleaning and step 4.

lizatola

((CodeJob)), I completely understand exactly what you just said. Every word of it. We'll be married 19 years next month but we've been together for 22 years. That's a dang long time! I, too, have ruled out an outside relationship, even an emotional affair, because I just don't think I could handle another human and their 'stuff' at this point, LOL. And, yes, I hold myself to a higher moral standard than many people do.

I'm sorry you are struggling. You are not alone!

LaTeeDa

The thing about alcoholics is that they have a really strong gravitational pull. Everyone in their lives orbits around them like the planets orbit around the sun. Nobody gets to have their own separate and distinct life because they are pushed and pulled by every little thing the A does. It's suffocating, but safe to orbit around another person. It's very scary and difficult to pull away from that orbit and learn to shine like a star all on your own.

L

CodeJob

Too funny! La tee DA, my T called me "vibrant" which has really thrown me for a loop. I do feel like a comet. I keep trying to break that orbit!! For one moment I saw myself they an objective viewpoint instead of my own hypocritical view and RAHs view.

Liz, thanks for your kind post. Some days it is such a relief to know I am not alone in my questioning thoughts! I read that book with a counselor I saw for a bit! I got so ticked off after one session I called my H and reamed him for making me crazy! lmao

HopefulinFLA

Liz and Codejob-

I too am afraid to walk away although we've been together less time, almost 9 years. I just don't want it all to be wasted time. If I leave now, and he does find sobriety again in the future, I will have lost out on life with my best friend. I'm just not sure I can continue with him in active drinking. It's just so depressing watching someone you love destroy himself. It can be so lonely being with an A.

If I do leave, I'm afraid of who I'll be. I feel like I've lost so much of myself in his drinking. I'm angry, anxious and sad all the time. I'm not sure how to be me all by myself again.

LaTeeDa- You really struck a nerve with me tonight.

"It's suffocating, but safe to orbit around another person. It's very scary and difficult to pull away from that orbit and learn to shine like a star all on your own."

This is exactly how I'm feeling, which makes me very angry with myself as I've always been strong and independent. Not sure what happened to me....

lizatola

I like the word vibrant! That is a lovely word! Last night at a meeting, a dear friend of mine in program told me that I was glowing. I told her it was either the 2.5 miles I did hiking a beast of a mountain yesterday during the midday sun or it was me glowing with anger at myself for staying in a situation that I know is a dead end. I prefer to claim it was the former, not the latter, LOL.

Hopeful, I like what LTD said too. Not only is it 'safe' to orbit around another person, I think I'm just plain old addicted to the drama. No matter how much effort I put into working on ME and focusing on fixing myself and my attitudes and perceptions, I still can look at HIM and point the finger. And, that's really where my problem lies. Until I work on the finger pointing and the self-righteousness that I must own(because it is mine), I will be stuck. I'm afraid to be on my own, especially financially. I'm also afraid that if I don't have AH around, I won't be able to escape into the finger pointing(for lack of better words; it's early and I'm struggling to find where I'm going here).

MissFixit

If AH lost his job tomorrow and drank/frittered your savings away, then how would feel about being on your own financially? From what you write (the trip with your son) he is a big spender with little regard to budgeting or realistic finances. Realistically (with my experience with a big spending A), it seems likely that money might become an issue in the future if you are together.

I understand the finger pointing. For me it lessens with time and with focus on myself (because I just don't care about what he does/did for the most part) However, I will always be able to say he drank, he lied, he spent, he did this or that. I was the "good" dutiful one. Yet, look where being the good one got me... Tying yourself forever to an A is a dangerous thing to do in my experience.

lizatola

You know what's funny about AH? He was always so miserly and a tightwad for all of our marriage. We don't have any toys(boats, 4 wheelers, etc): just a house and 2 cars and our cars are a bit older and paid off. He doesn't buy extravagant things for himself and has no hobbies except for tennis. We belong to a tennis club since all 3 of us play and we spend money on that particular sport, but in reality he is not someone I would consider being careless with money.

I think that's why this whole trip thing really threw me for a loop. Well, also when he was thinking about buying that house back in December and taking on another $200K in debt. It just seems so out of character for him. A month after the whole house buying thing, our microwave broke and we were debating over whether to get it fixed or to replace it and he freaked out over the cost of a new one. All I kept thinking was, "Wow, this was the same guy who was thinking of buying a new single family home and taking on HUGE amounts of debt and he's sitting here griping over replacing a $500 microwave?"

So, I then tell myself, "Quit trying to make sense out of nonsense!"

I understand where you're going and I often think of what would happen if he lost his job. I really need to take some time to figure out how I will handle things in the future: both emotionally and financially.

CodeJob

Lizatola and everyone,

This is such a great thread!