yeahgr8

I am a recovered alcoholic and posted this in the 12 step support area of the forum where I normally hang put from time to time! Would love to hear your thoughts on this one:

There was a vote at a group conscience and it was voted that they would have flyers/leaflets for Alanon on the main AA meeting table from next week so if the alcoholic wanted to take one home for their partner family member they could.

I strongly opposed this because it is difficult enough to get the alcoholic to look at themselves in the initial stages without giving them a flyer to go home and fix their partner or family members. I also did not think this not in keeping with our traditions.

The flyers/leaflets are for a regular Alanon meeting and not for a special event, e.g. A convention.

kudzujean

I agree with you, I don't think it's appropriate.

AnvilheadII

violation of the 1st and 5th traditions:

1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.

5. Each group has but one primary purpose-to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

group conscience should never TRUMP the purpose or message of AA. which summed up in the 6th tradition as well:

6. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance
or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

you could take this to the business meeting or to the GSR for the group to be taken up a the next regional meeting.

LBrain

I agree.
Next will be the saturday night prayer meeting at the sisters of perpetual motion synagogue and baptist renewal massage parlor.
Nip it in the bud.

ladyscribbler

We had a similar discussion about printing AA meeting times on our Alanon meeting schedules. I opposed it for the same reasons. We Alanons already fixate too much on the As in our lives, that's why we need those meetings. The open AA meetings that are held concurrently with Alanon meetings are already on our schedules, anyway.

Hammer

On the other hand, getting the (would-be) Alanoner at home off the Newbie-AA'ers butt for a while (by sending them to Alanon) may be a good thing, too.

Turned out that way for me.

Just saying. But I have no goat in this rodeo, makes no difference to me.

One thing I do see missing in this . . . The Group Conscience is sort of supposed to be God's Will Manifest in the group? At least that is sort of how I (mis?)understand things? Have found it less than wise to argue or be mad with God. Praise His Holy Name.

MissFixit

An AA person giving alanon flyers to their codies is EXACTLY like a codie/alanon person give AA flyers to an alcoholic. BIG no no.

I DID that and learned later it wasn't a good thing to do. The mere act of messing in someone else's recovery effort or lack of effort speaks to the lack of boundaries of the flyer giver.

CodeJob

I realize this is a big deal. Sadly, this is sort of the stuff I think some people hear about AA/Al Anon and stay very far away from the rooms.

First World Problems read by Third World People - YouTube

Hammer

Like I say, I have no goat in this. Flyers, here, flyers there, whatever, use them as wall paper, toilet paper, all fine by me.

On a funny side, as my MIL has made very clear to me, Alanon information is NOT welcome even from a fellow Not-The-A. And in Real Life, it has been helpful to others.

Sort of a "Parable of the Sower" thing, as far as I can tell. You know -- some seed lands on good soil and grows. Some on rocks, some among thorns, and does not grow so well. More a case of the soil and conditions than the seed. Dunno.

--------------------

On my end, just more concerned for the Group Conscience type stuff. That this is all NOT an Our Will, Our Way thing. When God speaks it is Hammer that shall comply.

Guess maybe I am too much a Walk By Faith Not By Sight sort anymore. GC comes down, I try to smartly salute, say Yes, Sir, and that is the mission and method.

PaperDolls

Interestingly, I was just at an AA meeting searching for Alanon info along with my sponsee who has started attending Alanon.. They hold regular Alanon meetings in the same building so I expected I could find something. I wasn't able to and we were both disappointed.

If the motive is so that AA's can take them to their spouse/family, that doesn't make sense to me. If the motive is to inform people about regular Alanon meetings, that's great in my opinion. I qualify for both as does my sponsee and a ton of other AA friends I have.

I'm not sure why they decided why they would leave them on the table for AA folks other than "Hey, here's some info you might like to have.". Are Alanon folks ever searching for when Open AA meetings are?

I TOTALLY agree that trying to "strongly suggest" aka force anyone into Alanon or AA is counterproductive and quite a codie thing to do. I've done it myself. I did not get the response I was looking for. Imagine that!

yeahgr8

In this case the flyers would be so the AA'er can take them home and give them to their family and partners, every time I write that sentence it makes me laugh. So our message to the AA newcomer is yes you are the problem but you're partner/family needs fixing too and at a week off a drunk you are definitely the right person to fix them...

I haven't been to the meeting where, by chance, the group conscience was on the day I returned. About 2/3rds of the room are less than one year sobriety with most very new. "Coincidentally" the vote was about 2/3rds saying yes to flyers with a 1/3rd saying no?!

This woman's husband is going to Alanon and she kept mentioning when the Alanon meeting is at the end of each AA meeting which she was told to stop doing so now they have flyers! Would you believe the suggestion for the flyers was made to her by the person who "runs" the Alanon meetings in the town I am in? It's the very last thing I would suggest as a good idea if I was in Alanon.

Oh almost forgot then the secretary at this AA meeting announced AA is affiliated with Alanon! I asked him why on earth would he say that and he said he assumed it was because AA and Alanon hold their conventions in the same building?! The secretary also believes that not everyone has to work the steps of AA and pulling the parachute rip cord is more of a suggestion.

Ahhhhh so the saga develops, thanks for everyone's input:-)

ladyscribbler

In this case the flyers would be so the AA'er can take them home and give them to their family and partners, every time I write that sentence it makes me laugh. So our message to the AA newcomer is yes you are the problem but you're partner/family needs fixing too and at a week off a drunk you are definitely the right person to fix them...

LOL. Yeah, that will go over like a lead balloon. Sounds like that Alanon program needs a codie intervention. I can't imagine our group doing something like this to the AA side. There is an Alanon men's meeting Mon nights that has asked that their meeting-specific flyers be distributed among other Alanon groups, but none of us would presume to horn in on the AA side like that. We did do a literature distribution campaign for Lois W's birthday last week, but that was leaving stuff in waiting rooms and other public places, not at AA meetings.

TonightTonight

Though not affiliated, Al Anon follows the same traditions as AA, and in one of them says something to the effect of "always cooperate with Alcoholics Anonymous" and also guarding the anonymity of all AA members. Personally I could see how Al Anon would help the AA member, which is what I thought the kerfuffle was about.

Just my two cents, and not on the topic of affiliation or traditions but - anyone there has the choice to take the fliers or not, it's still their choice? No more than them going back out? *wincing*

LivingLife4Me

Are these flyers/leaflets Al-Anon sponsored materials? Or are we talking a paper with meeting times and locations?

Sue

m1k3

I had to think about this one for a while and my opinion is that it is not a good idea. Also as a serious codie I think you had better listen to my opinion!

To be honest, if my wife had ever come home from one the oh so few AA meetings she attended I probably would never have attended al-anon and that would have been a shame.

Your friend,

Seren

I'll begin by saying I am not an alcoholic, I have never been to an open AA meeting. I used to go to Al-Anon meetings but have not been in some time due to work and volunteer time restrictions.

I suppose that a loved one of an alcoholic would be about as receptive to having literature, reading material, and helpful websites shoved under their nose as we find the alcoholics in our lives to be if we do the same thing "Here, read this! It will fix you!!"

That said, if Al-Anon flyers are there for the people who attend the AA meetings so that they can learn about Al-Anon for themselves, I don't suppose there would be any harm in that. We have many double and triple winners who post in the FFA and FFSA forums here who were encouraged to attend Al-Anon by their AA and NA sponsors.

yeahgr8

It's a a paper with meeting times and locations. Not official just something put together in word and printed out.

yeahgr8

It was plainly put in the group conscience that the flyers would be for alcoholics to take home to their spouses and family so they could get help too.

Some relief though i am sure for the long suffering partner of the alcoholic after suffering for years, even decades, that they will be presented with a flyer and a brief explanation that it is their fault too?! I mean what is expected from the newcomers alcoholic that he/she is to have the presence of mind to present this flyer in a manner where it will be well received, i just don't get it but am really listening to people's thoughts on this one so any post is not wasted. I haven't made my mind up what to do on Monday, part of me is to leave it and let it crash and burn by itself and the other half is a bit peeved. My sponsor is in the UK this weekend so I'm going to run it by him too...weird one huh?!

Without appearing, and giving this little thought, insensitive i think the level of understanding of the part of the alcoholic and partner/family members comes into play here and i don't feel that the members of this particular meeting really have sufficient experience to make an informed decision and in no way am i blaming the people in the meeting. Bottom line is am i the one to inform them or maybe i should take a back seat and leave that to Someone Else;-)

caboblanco

There are people that actually have gone to both AA and alanon...even at the same time..I have

Hammer

GC is Greater Than You or Me.

You Good with that?

I am -- at least now. For right now. But check with me next month.

GC does not always do things according to My Will and My Way, either. Go Figure?

Maybe THAT is the confusion. Not too many folks too long in Alanon think that *WE* are the cause or fault. About a day or two in Alanon, and we are pretty clear it is ALL your fault. Teasing, but do you understand the 3 C's of Alanon? We teach THAT pretty hard the VERY FIRST day to most new-comers about the same time they sit down. We let them sit down first -- makes it harder for them to run . . . but THEN it is ALL 3 C's. You know about that part, right?

Really have to tell you on things like this . . . LET GO AND LET GOD.

See again about that God thingy?

There is a God and God's Name IS NOT yeahgr8, or Hammer, or . . . .

God knows God's Business.

God has been doing God-Work longer than most of AA / Alanon has been doing theirs/ours.