Your alcoholic has the right to drink.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by ResignedToWait 
I am going to politely disagree with the wording of this thread…and say that your A in many cases does NOT have the right to drink. I can think of far more places that an A is not legally allowed to drink, than they are.
In many states, it is illegal to drink alcohol in a public place. A private business or their own home are the only places they can legally drink alcohol. In many cases, a court has ordered an A to remain sober and abstain from drinking…in those cases, it is illegal for the A to drink anywhere.
Of course, the original intent of this thread was to show that we can’t control the A’s drinking…I understand that. The A can drink, even if it’s illegal, and they have a “right” to do so. Semantically speaking, however, they don’t have a “right” in those cases. A right is something that is legally recognized as a thing that cannot be withheld from an individual. Alcohol does not fall into that category…it CAN be legally withheld from an individual.
Do you have the right to break into your neighbor’s house and take whatever you want? Do you have the right to murder someone if they make you angry? No, of course not.
Can you do those things if you want to? Of course you can.
An alcoholic does not have the right to drink. They do, or they don’t, but it’s not a right.
In many states, it is illegal to drink alcohol in a public place. A private business or their own home are the only places they can legally drink alcohol. In many cases, a court has ordered an A to remain sober and abstain from drinking…in those cases, it is illegal for the A to drink anywhere.
Of course, the original intent of this thread was to show that we can’t control the A’s drinking…I understand that. The A can drink, even if it’s illegal, and they have a “right” to do so. Semantically speaking, however, they don’t have a “right” in those cases. A right is something that is legally recognized as a thing that cannot be withheld from an individual. Alcohol does not fall into that category…it CAN be legally withheld from an individual.
Do you have the right to break into your neighbor’s house and take whatever you want? Do you have the right to murder someone if they make you angry? No, of course not.
Can you do those things if you want to? Of course you can.
An alcoholic does not have the right to drink. They do, or they don’t, but it’s not a right.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Perhaps a better way to word this would not be that your A has the 'right' to drink but we do not have the right to try and take away that choice.
Many of us in this forum get totally tied up in trying to control the A's drinking with really bad results for everyone involved.
If they choose to drink illegally that is up to them, not us.
Your friend,
Many of us in this forum get totally tied up in trying to control the A's drinking with really bad results for everyone involved.
If they choose to drink illegally that is up to them, not us.
Your friend,
Stoic
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Mike,
I apologize ahead of time for using your words in this quote.
That being said, if we decide to try and stop them from drinking, that's up to us, not anyone else.
I don't disagree with you however, in that trying to stop them from drinking just about always does end disastrously.
I apologize ahead of time for using your words in this quote.
If they choose to drink illegally that is up to them, not us.
I don't disagree with you however, in that trying to stop them from drinking just about always does end disastrously.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 148
Thank you for the post! When I first got here and in Alanon, I was so confused because we are raised to "help" others and "til death do you part". I felt like my spouse and I had to work this out together and come to an agreement that his drinking was affecting our marriage - but he didnt see his drinking as hurting anyone which kept me confused. I stayed in a state of confusion because I didnt understand addiction At All! Knowledge is power and Awareness is the key. Now that we both are aware (that he is an A and I am a Codie) our life has become so much more manageable.
I think that this thread puts the confusion in perspective - we do not Own anyone and no one Owns us, just because we are married or are family - everyone still has their right, whether it is to continue on a path of self-destruction or deciding not to stay in someone's life when they are on this path.
I hope this makes sense - In short what I am trying to say is...everyone involved has a right - its just figuring out what is right for you!
I think that this thread puts the confusion in perspective - we do not Own anyone and no one Owns us, just because we are married or are family - everyone still has their right, whether it is to continue on a path of self-destruction or deciding not to stay in someone's life when they are on this path.
I hope this makes sense - In short what I am trying to say is...everyone involved has a right - its just figuring out what is right for you!
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
Great Post...
just like they have the "right" to drink...
just like I have the right to NOT STICK around (anymore)....
I love those reminders...
just like "not my monkey not my circus" quote....
thanks!
just like they have the "right" to drink...
just like I have the right to NOT STICK around (anymore)....
I love those reminders...
just like "not my monkey not my circus" quote....
thanks!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 121
"Your alcoholic has the right to drink."
Accepting this changed everything for me. I was then able to say: I RESPECT your decision to drink and you need to RESPECT my decision to not want to live with your drinking. You do what you need to do for you and I will do what I need to do for me.
How did I accept it? I looked at myself. I did not want anyone telling me what I could or could not do even in the simplest of circumstances. No one likes the feeling that they are being controlled.
Accepting this changed everything for me. I was then able to say: I RESPECT your decision to drink and you need to RESPECT my decision to not want to live with your drinking. You do what you need to do for you and I will do what I need to do for me.
How did I accept it? I looked at myself. I did not want anyone telling me what I could or could not do even in the simplest of circumstances. No one likes the feeling that they are being controlled.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Bright Side of the Moon
Posts: 528
If we really want to change the wording of M1k3's statement why not go after the word "your?" They are not ours. They never were. They never will be. I get that we can call someone "our" child, "our" spouse, "our" friend, but to echo unhappyspouse's response, "We don't own them." When we are restored to sanity we're grateful for the fact that we don't own them. Er... I think. I'm not actually restored to sanity yet. Working on it.
Also, I'll point out that rights are debatable. All over the world, people struggle every day with access to "basic human rights" such as clean air, water and food. The "right to bear arms" has been debated in the US for I-don't-know-how-long.
Accept the right to drink as a right or don't. You'll probably get to Serenity sooner if you do accept it. ? That's what I choose to believe based on what the serene people tell me.
Also, I'll point out that rights are debatable. All over the world, people struggle every day with access to "basic human rights" such as clean air, water and food. The "right to bear arms" has been debated in the US for I-don't-know-how-long.
Accept the right to drink as a right or don't. You'll probably get to Serenity sooner if you do accept it. ? That's what I choose to believe based on what the serene people tell me.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I think the point is to not be concerned with the decisions that your alcoholic loved one makes. A lot of us get here and think "why are they doing this to me? Why are they doing this to themselves? Don't they understand that I love them and just want what's best for ALL of us?" At the end of the day, the alcoholic is choosing to drink their life away. We are choosing to stand in the line of fire taking blow after blow. We cannot make them stop drinking, that isn't our right. We just need to move and change ourselves so we're not getting beat up emotionally and sometimes physically. Sometimes that means going no contact, sometimes that means detachment. It never means changing anyone else but ourselves.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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This post really helped me today.
An old friend of mine who has struggled with alcoholism his entire life came back on Facebook after having dropped out of sight for the better part of a year. He came back to tell his story -- how he had taken a relapse after 25 years of sobriety, stolen stuff and money from his life partner, lied to churches and social services to get money, slept on steam grids, gone to detox, rehab, and finally ended up with his own place so that he can drink without anyone disturbing him.
Because of this post, I could respond to him that his hell is his own, and that he is the only one who has any power over whether he chooses to continue drinking himself to death or get sober again. And I could do it with respect, not disdain, for his choices.
An old friend of mine who has struggled with alcoholism his entire life came back on Facebook after having dropped out of sight for the better part of a year. He came back to tell his story -- how he had taken a relapse after 25 years of sobriety, stolen stuff and money from his life partner, lied to churches and social services to get money, slept on steam grids, gone to detox, rehab, and finally ended up with his own place so that he can drink without anyone disturbing him.
Because of this post, I could respond to him that his hell is his own, and that he is the only one who has any power over whether he chooses to continue drinking himself to death or get sober again. And I could do it with respect, not disdain, for his choices.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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Originally Posted by lillamy
You are powerless over alcohol. You are not powerless over your choices.
Thanks for the clarification, lillamy.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
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I was exercising a boundary the other night and AH didn't like it. He said, "I'm just doing what I do."
It reminded me of the scorpion on the frog crossing the river parable*
To which I said, "Yes, you are, hon, but I don't have to be part of it and tonight I choose not to."
*The Scorpion and the Frog is an animal fable about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature.
It reminded me of the scorpion on the frog crossing the river parable*
To which I said, "Yes, you are, hon, but I don't have to be part of it and tonight I choose not to."
*The Scorpion and the Frog is an animal fable about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature.
Clear Eyes Full Heart
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,272
I'm trying to help my alcoholic friend's mother understand more of what is really happening with her daughter, because she is enabling her constantly and at the same time wondering how it all went so wrong. She's giving her every tool she needs to continue-money, job, housing, paying bills, feeding her, fixing her car, etc.
She might relate very well to the "not my monkey, not my circus" analogy-thank you! It's simple and humorous, but it may help her draw some lines and boundaries.
She might relate very well to the "not my monkey, not my circus" analogy-thank you! It's simple and humorous, but it may help her draw some lines and boundaries.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 317
Wow Mr. m1k3, you really struck a chord on this one. By coincidence, I opened up my Service Manual tonight (I've been tasked with actually reading it) and saw this same sentiment phrased just a little differently.
Instead of saying that the alcoholic has a right to drink (which is focused on the alcoholics side of the street), we could just say that we need to recognize that we are powerless over alcoholism (focusing on our side of the street).
We can't truly start to "recover" until we fully and completely understand that there's absolutely nothing we can do to make an alcoholic stop drinking. Until we unconditionally surrender that battle, we're not truly ready to start turning the energy we've been spending on that hopeless task toward the work it takes to heal ourselves.
Sitting here thinking about this, I'd like to point to an articles on the topic of powerlessness that really moved me at the time it was written, {even though it's focused on the "other side of the street"}: Amy Winehouse.
Instead of saying that the alcoholic has a right to drink (which is focused on the alcoholics side of the street), we could just say that we need to recognize that we are powerless over alcoholism (focusing on our side of the street).
We can't truly start to "recover" until we fully and completely understand that there's absolutely nothing we can do to make an alcoholic stop drinking. Until we unconditionally surrender that battle, we're not truly ready to start turning the energy we've been spending on that hopeless task toward the work it takes to heal ourselves.
Sitting here thinking about this, I'd like to point to an articles on the topic of powerlessness that really moved me at the time it was written, {even though it's focused on the "other side of the street"}: Amy Winehouse.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Bumping because this is an incredibly eye-opening thread about a topic that has come up a few times in the last few months on the board. What a great discussion!
Does anyone know if this is sticky'd anywhere? I couldn't find it that way....
(& yes, reading this made me miss Mike even more
)
Does anyone know if this is sticky'd anywhere? I couldn't find it that way....
(& yes, reading this made me miss Mike even more
)
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