Counselor recommendations Infuriating me
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Next time a cop pulls me over . . . . I am going to ask why he does not thank me for not driving drunk.
I follow that the Attitude of Gratitude ranks high on the "On The Beam," list but so does a Lot of the Crap we deal come from the "Off The Beam" side.
So to balance things, I think we should expand our Gratitude . . .
To our A's . . .
Thank You for Not Drinking.
Thank You for Not Burning the House Down. (thx Lulu on THAT one)
Thank You for Not Peeing in the Bed.
Thank You for Mostly Hitting the Toilet with Your Vomit.
Thank You for Picking up your bottles, cans, and other Trash.
(add your own)
Reminds me of the Military Nonsense the Corporate (usually non-service) War Promoters inflicted on the troops . . . .
Thank You for your Service.
But while we are Thanking the Ever-so Delightful A's in our lives . . . might as well just combine this thread with the No-Sex-For-You thread . . .
and add one more note of Gratitude,
Thank You for F-ing me.
I follow that the Attitude of Gratitude ranks high on the "On The Beam," list but so does a Lot of the Crap we deal come from the "Off The Beam" side.
So to balance things, I think we should expand our Gratitude . . .
To our A's . . .
Thank You for Not Drinking.
Thank You for Not Burning the House Down. (thx Lulu on THAT one)
Thank You for Not Peeing in the Bed.
Thank You for Mostly Hitting the Toilet with Your Vomit.
Thank You for Picking up your bottles, cans, and other Trash.
(add your own)
Reminds me of the Military Nonsense the Corporate (usually non-service) War Promoters inflicted on the troops . . . .
Thank You for your Service.
But while we are Thanking the Ever-so Delightful A's in our lives . . . might as well just combine this thread with the No-Sex-For-You thread . . .
and add one more note of Gratitude,
Thank You for F-ing me.
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Hammer...you just crack me up! My sister and brother in laws are cops, I am going to tell them they need to start thanking people for not driving drunk!
Let me add mine....Thank you for racking up my annual salary's worth of legal bills, and another half a years worth of rehab bills.
Thank you for letting me see close up what the jail looks like because you had the jail call and guilt me into picking you up. (My fault, would NEVER do that again, I don't care who is on the phone). True fact, the guy talked to me for 25 mins before I would agree to come get him. Don't think that just because one is a criminal and one a jail employee they don't stick together!
Thank you for half a@@ cleaning up the red wine stains on the floor, even though I ended up doing the real cleaning.
And from the neighbors....Thank You for letting us see your naked butt outside in the middle of the night painting your dresser while wasted b/c alcohol and OCD don't mix and even though it was 2am and you were wasted and NAKED...you still drug it outside and finished the job. The dresser turned out great, minus the blades of grass painted on...whoops. (In all fairness, that was a LLOONNNGG time ago but one I will never ever forget)!
The list could go on and on.....
Truly, I do say Thank You to people who give me service. I say Thank You to my husband when he does something extra. I told my little daughter Thank You last night for having her homework done, getting her entire room cleaned up, fish bowl cleaned, and guinea pig's cage cleaned and all fed. She is 8 and I think it's alot to do say I said Thank You even though these are her duties, it is alot for an eight year old all at once.
If my husband talks to me about drinking or not, I do encourage him. I don't beg. I don't plead. I don't tell him he is ruining our life. I have been down that road. The only thing that has worked for him is fear of consequences.
What works for some does not work for others. To each his own. For myself and all I have endured over the years, the day I say Thank You each day for not drinking will be the day hell freezes over. Eh...take what you want and leave the rest.
Let me add mine....Thank you for racking up my annual salary's worth of legal bills, and another half a years worth of rehab bills.
Thank you for letting me see close up what the jail looks like because you had the jail call and guilt me into picking you up. (My fault, would NEVER do that again, I don't care who is on the phone). True fact, the guy talked to me for 25 mins before I would agree to come get him. Don't think that just because one is a criminal and one a jail employee they don't stick together!
Thank you for half a@@ cleaning up the red wine stains on the floor, even though I ended up doing the real cleaning.
And from the neighbors....Thank You for letting us see your naked butt outside in the middle of the night painting your dresser while wasted b/c alcohol and OCD don't mix and even though it was 2am and you were wasted and NAKED...you still drug it outside and finished the job. The dresser turned out great, minus the blades of grass painted on...whoops. (In all fairness, that was a LLOONNNGG time ago but one I will never ever forget)!
The list could go on and on.....
Truly, I do say Thank You to people who give me service. I say Thank You to my husband when he does something extra. I told my little daughter Thank You last night for having her homework done, getting her entire room cleaned up, fish bowl cleaned, and guinea pig's cage cleaned and all fed. She is 8 and I think it's alot to do say I said Thank You even though these are her duties, it is alot for an eight year old all at once.
If my husband talks to me about drinking or not, I do encourage him. I don't beg. I don't plead. I don't tell him he is ruining our life. I have been down that road. The only thing that has worked for him is fear of consequences.
What works for some does not work for others. To each his own. For myself and all I have endured over the years, the day I say Thank You each day for not drinking will be the day hell freezes over. Eh...take what you want and leave the rest.
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My husband isn't an alcoholic so it doesn't apply in that regard, but I did want to address the thanking issue that people seem to have.
I am a big believer in gratitude, and in living a life of gratitude. Matter of fact, I try to deliberately find five things every day to be grateful for. It changes the way you see things, it changes your appreciation of what you do have.
I also thank my husband every day for things he does. Because I genuinely appreciate everything he does. We are a great team and we've both had experiences of pulling the entire household-parenting-workload alone, and therefore are grateful for each other every day.
THAT SAID...
Thanking an alcoholic spouse for drinking less -- I maintain -- is like thanking an abuser for not hitting you in the face this time.
Besides -- expressing gratitude that is not genuine only adds to the lies of an alcoholic marriage. The few periods of time when AXH didn't drink, I wasn't grateful. I was furious that when he obviously was capable of NOT DRINKING, he still chose to do it, despite the negative effects.
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
I do think the first part of that sentence explains the rest.
---
Thanking an alcoholic spouse for drinking less -- I maintain -- is like thanking an abuser for not hitting you in the face this time.
Besides -- expressing gratitude that is not genuine only adds to the lies of an alcoholic marriage. The few periods of time when AXH didn't drink, I wasn't grateful. I was furious that when he obviously was capable of NOT DRINKING, he still chose to do it, despite the negative effects.
---
Thanking an alcoholic spouse for drinking less -- I maintain -- is like thanking an abuser for not hitting you in the face this time.
Besides -- expressing gratitude that is not genuine only adds to the lies of an alcoholic marriage. The few periods of time when AXH didn't drink, I wasn't grateful. I was furious that when he obviously was capable of NOT DRINKING, he still chose to do it, despite the negative effects.
What I was talking about were the little things. Now I understand if you have a general feeling of anger/annoyance/frustration/whatever toward your alcoholic, then you are not going to want to be in a thankful mood. I was married to someone who seemed incapable of actually folding his own laundry and putting it away and instead left his clothes (clean) in a heap on the living room floor and just got dressed there.
While I *would have been* grateful if he actually put his clothes where he belonged, thanking him for it would have seemed like I was treating him like a kid and giving him a gold star for doing his chores. So I get it.I speak of this because when my husband lost his job years ago, he told me later that the only thing that kept him going when starting his own business and being up all night long working were my words of gratitude and boosting him up, telling him that I believed in him and I knew he could do it and that I had faith in him. Had I just shrugged it off and said "well, he needs to get a job anyway so why should I show any thanks for something he should be doing" then the situation may have been a lot worse and stressful for him - and me and our relationship.
I don't think that "blowing smoke" gratitude is necessarily helpful. But if you can find something to be genuinely thankful for toward your alcoholic, then it could put you both in a better state of mind. And if not, if you can find nothing, if you are sick of feeling like a parent toward your spouse (or whatever), then why stay? You aren't doing either of you any good. I've been there, done that, left him, and am much happier (as is he).
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Like every kid in a class doesn't deserve an academic award, only the BEST kids do. Only the kids that go ABOVE AND BEYOND deserve an award for their performances. Same thing in sports. Same thing in my household. When someone goes above and beyond then I totally express my gratitude. Otherwise I personally don't believe in teaching my kids that they need to be thanked or acknowledged for doing what they're supposed to do anyway."
I agree not every child in the class deserves an award, but it is a fact that those children who are struggling, benefit when teachers single them out for recognition or praise their efforts. They work that much harder to do well. I'm a teacher and we are trained to do this. I think the therapist was trying to use the same approach. It does work......it's been proven effective. I guess the question is would you rather leave your A or work toward building a better relationship?
I know that if I make the choice to remain in a relationship I would rather work on improving it....if something is going to better my life.....I'm game. At the very least I'll give it a try.
I agree not every child in the class deserves an award, but it is a fact that those children who are struggling, benefit when teachers single them out for recognition or praise their efforts. They work that much harder to do well. I'm a teacher and we are trained to do this. I think the therapist was trying to use the same approach. It does work......it's been proven effective. I guess the question is would you rather leave your A or work toward building a better relationship?
I know that if I make the choice to remain in a relationship I would rather work on improving it....if something is going to better my life.....I'm game. At the very least I'll give it a try.
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I guess the question is would you rather leave your A or work toward building a better relationship?
until we were separated.
My experience has taught me that a marriage is two sided, so even though I may try my hardest to contribute MORE than 50% I cannot effectively or sustainably be more than 50% of my marriage. I also cannot teach my alcoholic husband how to be sober or how to be a good husband anymore than he can teach me how to be a good wife. I think that's the rationalizing that allowed me to stay miserable in my marriage for so long, adhering to the idea that I could change him. I cannot teach nor change my husband.
My kids are a different story but there are seriously a million different philosophies on child rearing. And mine are still babies so I reserve the right to completely change philosophies as they get older.
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Something I learned while in therapy is that family dynamics is like a baby's mobile. The base is the family and the toys that are dangling are each individual family member. When ONE of those toys starts moving around, it bumps into the other toys which bumps into another and so on. That's what happens when ONE family member starts changing....does something different then what is expected. That one family member impacts another member and effects that member....another family member starts moving....changing and impacts another.....and on and on. That's how ONE family member can change the entire family dynamic. We know that we can not make another person change, we can only change ourselves. But changing ourselves inadvertently changes others. That is what I meant when I said what I did above.
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Originally Posted by cleaninLI
I know that if I make the choice to remain in a relationship I would rather work on improving it....if something is going to better my life.....I'm game. At the very least I'll give it a try.
Good Brains. Good.
AND Thank You.
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Mobile
Originally Posted by cleaninLI
Something I learned while in therapy is that family dynamics is like a baby's mobile. The base is the family and the toys that are dangling are each individual family member. When ONE of those toys starts moving around, it bumps into the other toys which bumps into another and so on. That's what happens when ONE family member starts changing....does something different then what is expected. That one family member impacts another member and effects that member....another family member starts moving....changing and impacts another.....and on and on. That's how ONE family member can change the entire family dynamic. We know that we can not make another person change, we can only change ourselves. But changing ourselves inadvertently changes others. That is what I meant when I said what I did above.
Detachment cut me free but left him on the same old path to destruction. Since I have a minor child, I cut my H off of the mobile and retied my string. I put up with 19 years of mobile and NOTHING changed until I cut string. After rehab, we hesitantly allowed RAH back on the mobile.
And in my therapy, T and I agree that my marriage is over if RAH refuses to work on his denial, intimacy and communication issues. Because you see - those are problems I can't fix by dangling on the mobile analogy. All this work I am doing on me has NOT changed RAH. All it has shown me is I am going to have to cut some f'in string, pull the ring off my finger, and lock the diamond up for the next generation. Thankfully therapy also gives me strength to get out a pair of shears.
The Karpmann Drama Triangles don't effect change until you get OFF the triangle.
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Or you could sell the diamond, turn that string into a bikini, and go on vacation! (lol here, because I don't care how cute anyone is...that string is SMALL... be careful with those shears...)
Not trying to make light of it, this was a really good post. Thanks for sharing it. It's a harsh, excellent reminder that you can only effect change in someone else if they independently want to change after watching you. (I want what she has!)
You can keep bumping into those family members on the mobile, but sometimes you've gotta check and see if you have anything but bruises.
I'm sorry you are in this space right now. Sending you hugs and support!
Not trying to make light of it, this was a really good post. Thanks for sharing it. It's a harsh, excellent reminder that you can only effect change in someone else if they independently want to change after watching you. (I want what she has!)
You can keep bumping into those family members on the mobile, but sometimes you've gotta check and see if you have anything but bruises.
I'm sorry you are in this space right now. Sending you hugs and support!
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Originally Posted by cleaninLI
but it is a fact that those children who are struggling, benefit when teachers single them out for recognition or praise their efforts. They work that much harder to do well. I'm a teacher and we are trained to do this. I think the therapist was trying to use the same approach. It does work......it's been proven effective.
For me this says it all. For some of us its easy not to take drugs or drink but for someone who is an addict or an alcoholic its not easy. Its not easy to learn to live life without these things, to not fall back on them. I tell my husband how proud I am of him for wanting to change, for wanting to learn to have better coping skills, for not using. I thank him for trying even though he may stumble and fall. I feel like I have compassion because I view his addiction as an illness. Do some people view it only as a choice and maybe thats why there are differences of opinion on when its right to thank someone, or appreciate effort? I thank my husband for things he does around the house also. He thanks me too !! He thanks me even when the dinner I cooked didnt turn out so good, because he knows I did my best. It encourages me to try new recipes, to want to learn to be a better cook because I know even if Im not a perfect chef my efforts are appreciated, and we sit down together share the experience.
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I say thank you when I appreciate someone's effort--whether it is something they are "supposed to" do or not. It makes me feel good when someone thanks me. Why not do the same for someone in return? I think when we choose to not say thank you it's a display of control.
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Ummm, but when I did tell AXH thank you for not drinking until he passed out, it was a way of trying to control how much he drank. It was "if I tell him thank you because he didn't drink until he passed out today, maybe he'll continue to NOT drink so much."
And it was thanking the A for not drinking that Pebbles2012 was asking about, then I went in and muddied the waters by talking about how I came up with my brilliant attempt to thank XAH into cutting back. Which did not work with AXH.
ETA - So, I'm sorry for muddying the waters, crew.
And it was thanking the A for not drinking that Pebbles2012 was asking about, then I went in and muddied the waters by talking about how I came up with my brilliant attempt to thank XAH into cutting back. Which did not work with AXH.
ETA - So, I'm sorry for muddying the waters, crew.
Last edited by theuncertainty; 03-14-2014 at 04:16 PM. Reason: ETA
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty
Ummm, but when I did tell AXH thank you for not drinking until he passed out, it was a way of trying to control how much he drank. It was "if I tell him thank you because he didn't drink until he passed out today, maybe he'll continue to NOT drink so much."
And it was thanking the A for not drinking that Pebbles2012 was asking about, then I went in and muddied the waters by talking about how I came up with my brilliant attempt to thank XAH into cutting back. Which did not work with AXH.
ETA - So, I'm sorry for muddying the waters, crew.
And it was thanking the A for not drinking that Pebbles2012 was asking about, then I went in and muddied the waters by talking about how I came up with my brilliant attempt to thank XAH into cutting back. Which did not work with AXH.
ETA - So, I'm sorry for muddying the waters, crew.
Maybe the underlying issue is whether there is a motive behind the thank you (or lack of a thank you). When we start to question why we say thank you (or not), it doesn't seem like a genuine gesture, IMO.
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Probably a big case of YMMV.
I was praising and thanking Mrs. Hammer for doing better at her one-year back from Rehab day, and she flipped out with (typical) saying that things were not better yet because of these various things that I was then accused of doing over the past year . . . that actually she had done.
I just figured she was having a trip to the twilight zone.
Crazy world in some of the A-heads.
I was praising and thanking Mrs. Hammer for doing better at her one-year back from Rehab day, and she flipped out with (typical) saying that things were not better yet because of these various things that I was then accused of doing over the past year . . . that actually she had done.
I just figured she was having a trip to the twilight zone.
Crazy world in some of the A-heads.
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See, the thing is, some of us get to a point where we don't care anymore, all we want is out. I don't have another thank you in me. I don't have another atta girl. I used them all up, the thanks tank is dry. For this type of thing to work at least one partner has to care.
So, the only thing I will say thank you for is when she finally signs the divorce. After that I don't give a rat's ass if I ever hear from her again.
Your friend,
So, the only thing I will say thank you for is when she finally signs the divorce. After that I don't give a rat's ass if I ever hear from her again.
Your friend,
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Another big thanks to everyone. I did get a chance to speak with the counselor over the phone momentarily about my issue with this "praising". She stated nothing about the craft method and said more or less that I was focusing on my wife's drinking too much and that I should be more supportive of how far she's come.
What my wife doesn't tell the counselor is that she has drank (I know it just by her mannerism). The other night I came home from work and could tell that she had a buzz. Now this is a lot better than the belligerent person that I used to come home to but IMHO it's a slippery slope. Just last night she came home after I was asleep(she's a shift worker) and had at least a glass of wine. I would have never known this but I happened to glance at the wine bottle in the fridge seeing it was less than what I remembered. I can't praise anything alcohol related so instead I resorted to telling her about how much fun I've had the day after I know that she hasn't had anything to drink. What's confusing to me is that the other night we went out with friends, she had 2 glasses of wine and that was it. She can stop herself but for some reason likes to get a buzz. I'm not sure that I'm going to be in this for the long haul as I'm to the point where her drinking anything isn't acceptable.
What my wife doesn't tell the counselor is that she has drank (I know it just by her mannerism). The other night I came home from work and could tell that she had a buzz. Now this is a lot better than the belligerent person that I used to come home to but IMHO it's a slippery slope. Just last night she came home after I was asleep(she's a shift worker) and had at least a glass of wine. I would have never known this but I happened to glance at the wine bottle in the fridge seeing it was less than what I remembered. I can't praise anything alcohol related so instead I resorted to telling her about how much fun I've had the day after I know that she hasn't had anything to drink. What's confusing to me is that the other night we went out with friends, she had 2 glasses of wine and that was it. She can stop herself but for some reason likes to get a buzz. I'm not sure that I'm going to be in this for the long haul as I'm to the point where her drinking anything isn't acceptable.
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For me, the fear of what was going to happen in the future was always heavy in my mind and causing so much fear and anxiety in my life I was miserable. We have now split and there is no going back. I have turned him over to God, he can choose what he wants to do with his life now.
I encourage you to get counseling for yourself separately so you can focus on YOUR wants and needs and see how to go from there.
Good Luck and God Bless!
I encourage you to get counseling for yourself separately so you can focus on YOUR wants and needs and see how to go from there.
Good Luck and God Bless!
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Every reputable counselor I know of with any knowledge of substance abuse, either refuses or strongly discourages marital counseling when one partner is an active A.
Your counselor sounds inept.
It's not your job to praise her or tolerate dishonesty.
It sounds like your counselor knows nothing about substance abuse and I think it's abusive for you to have to sit and be told the crap you're hearing.
I would find someone well versed in addiction and see that person individually and get their opinion about this marriage counselor.
Your counselor sounds inept.
It's not your job to praise her or tolerate dishonesty.
It sounds like your counselor knows nothing about substance abuse and I think it's abusive for you to have to sit and be told the crap you're hearing.
I would find someone well versed in addiction and see that person individually and get their opinion about this marriage counselor.
Originally Posted by Pebbles2012
Where to start? My AW and I finally decided to go to counseling together. I have been going for the past 2 yrs since drinking started getting really bad. There have been so many negative side effects of alcohol in her family. Cancer, DUI and tons of marital turmoil between us. She finally agreed to counseling for us and we are about 2 months into it. She has drank despite this but the amount has gotten less. It's been more of a drink 2 glasses of wine with dinner or a few beers here or there. My problem with this is that this still causes a "change" in her and it makes me a nervous wreck, which she knows because I've told her about it. Recently the counselor we are seeing recommended that I "praise" my wife for not drinking. This absolutely infuriates me. How can I praise my wife for something she should know is bad behavior? My counselor frowned at this recommendation. Our marriage counselor can't seem to understand why I am having trust issues with my wife? Duh, 2 yrs of lie, betrayal and now I need to all of a sudden praise her. Someone please give me some insight.
Btw. This forum is awesome. I was here last yr when things were really bad and I'm a lurker constantly looking for advice and knowledge. Thanks for everything you all do.
Btw. This forum is awesome. I was here last yr when things were really bad and I'm a lurker constantly looking for advice and knowledge. Thanks for everything you all do.
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Maybe the counselor is an alcoholic.
The big book says alcoholics are the only ones who expect praise or thanks for doing what the rest of us just do...
Thanking your wife for less lying and less drinking is enabling and the more I think about your counselors idiotic perspective the more I think this may be a case of the doctor (counselor) being as ill as the patient (your wife).
I would ask the counselor what her experience is with addiction... My guess is zilch.
I'm sorry you're getting BS from your wife and counselor alike
The big book says alcoholics are the only ones who expect praise or thanks for doing what the rest of us just do...
Thanking your wife for less lying and less drinking is enabling and the more I think about your counselors idiotic perspective the more I think this may be a case of the doctor (counselor) being as ill as the patient (your wife).
I would ask the counselor what her experience is with addiction... My guess is zilch.
I'm sorry you're getting BS from your wife and counselor alike
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