JustAGirl1971

Thank you. That was helpful.

wanttobehealthy

Hey hammer... A bit of an aside but wanted to share...

My father doesn't have addiction or BPD and he talked to my siblings and I often as a therapist bc that was his job and he just stayed in that mode. It was super annoying but not an indicator of addiction or mental illness issues. Annoying nonetheless though.

So it could be possible that not every annoying trait of your wife's is attributable to a disorder?

Even at work the guidance counselors talk in therapist mode to everyone. Maybe it's just part of the therapist thing

hopeful4

Hammer, my AH is a social worker. He goes into that mode alot when he is trying to manipulate the situation to work in his way. For example, the other day I mentioned a close friend of ours is taking her Xhusband to court b/c he is not sticking to their parenting plan and it is causing some severe problems.

Their daughter is like our own, we love her. I was expressing worry about her, not
really talking about her parents so much. He then came back in "social worker" mode about how difficult divorce is for children, blah blah. While I agree, it certainly is. I am not trying to minimize that. He knows I am on the fence and trying to get me to see how difficult it is for children b/c he knows ours are 100% the most important to me. He leaves out how difficult it is living with an narcissist addict. He knows that even if it means me living in misery with him forever I would put whatever is best for my children first.

I see him doing this more and more which is a shame. He is good at his job when he wants to apply himself. However, it does tick me off when someone who works in the field has causes so much damage and fails to recognize that. It is amazing to me how many who work in the fields of social work, and addiction therapy are addicts and have mental problems themselves. Sigh...what a mess.

Thank you for letting me ramble on and vent about this.

HSSH

As a fellow ACoA, I wish I had known about Alateen when I was a teen. Actually, I wish someone had just acknowledged dear old dad was a high functioning alcoholic when I was a teen (mom hid the beer cans so we wouldn't talk at school, where kids whose parents worked at the same company might gossip if we shared) - would have saved a lot of time/hurt later, perhaps. Learning about setting healthy boundaries and developing relationships with each parent as an individual would have been great to learn back then.

Is there Alateen in your area? Giving kids resources to deal with the complexities of growing up with an A is always a plus in my book.

Praying

Hopeful, I'm sorry! I'm not sure how you do it, but I think you are doing very well.

The most difficult thing is when they are SO GOOD at lying. When narcissistic behavior is involved, they're often charming and actually believe it themselves (because they rewrote it to fit their "now"...it will change tomorrow). I've never researched this thought, but I honestly think they'd pass a lie detector test. No matter how grounded your kids are, this can rock their world.

My friend's son is 17. Saw all, knows all, chose no contact with his narcissistic dad. In the final court proceedings last year he had to do a few last counseling sessions with dad, and in the first 30 minutes dad had this balanced, sure teen completely reeling, questioning truths he himself had observed...his entire reality was twisted. He struggled for six months to regain his footing. Thankfully in that case the counselor told the courts it was in son's best interests to discontinue, and against dad's complaints, the sessions stopped. (Son is doing really well now!)

But it was so scary to watch, knowing that could happen to my kids any day (and it sure happened to me for years). It's powerful.

So while I say my bit about telling the kids "perceptions of history"... sure... that works... but it still scares the daylights out of me!

And I think with N's, we definitely need to keep a finer radar up to protect their sense of reality. But not to protect our images.

Hammer

completely understand and agree, in general.

In my happy ponders I wish it were so.

But when you see actual persona flips . . . you know them. It is like a professional actor changing roles, faces, and voices. Pretty much why my daughter "named" them after the voices last summer.

I was just stunned to see and hear my 9 y.o. son completely nail it, as well. Just sitting at the table eating cake.

Threshold (a member here, who has the condition, but maybe DID aspects, as well?) describes the condition pretty well in the Borderline thread down in the Mental Health section.

We have all seen Mrs. Hammer flip through them, but I have never seen her get "stuck" in one, before. She was just locked in it. Tried to come out about three times, but just fell right back in.

I guess you are correct in that "The Therapist" is one the world sees as "functional," so she may be trying to be in it more and more.

Hammer

I think you make great points.

And one key one . . . . As we may know the quote -- "let the dead bury the dead" . . . . it is vast and wide in application.

Per the BB, and AA -- you know who BEST to deal with Alcoholics? Alcoholics!

Who BEST to deal with Friends and Family? Friends and Family who have been through this stuff.

Is CR not like that, as well?

So I had to sit back and watch this some. Mrs. Hammer can deal with A's etc., because she IS one.

Takes one to know one, right?

But here is the ever so painful portion . . . .

The Honesty stuff.

Which is what this whole thread is really about . . .

This is why some -- who cannot do the Honesty part . . . cannot get it for themselves.

=============

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt5.pdf

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our directions. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a way of life which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

BodkinVanHorn

Just dealing with the lies is exhausting. I can't do it. My kid sees it.
Nothing is exabf's fault. Nothing. When I told him I needed him to stop drinking to stay and he said that's not gonna happen, we should split. My fault. I'm uptight. He doesn't have a job? Everyone else's fault. Certainly not the fact that he gets stumbling drunk at every job but one since I've met him. Step dad pulled a gun on him? Crazy step dad. Not that he was sneaking around drunk/high in the alarmed and sensored basement and set the burglar alarm off 3am. Nopers. Mom won't pay his phone bill. She's narcissistic! (?what the?)
I had to do stuff with him regarding joint property today and I was literally shaking when it was over. I've been dreading it because I knew he would be dramatic and I think he was still drunk and was so rude and angry and cursing and repeating and delusional.

Yeah, dude, AAA TOTALLY has a seedy fraudulent underbelly, where, you know, they charge you for the stuff they do for you. Because...no one else does that. Let's go get some of them free groceries...oh sh*t! ACME's in on it, too! Oh god, is this is why he doesn't have a job? He thinks everything should be free? ARRGGAHHHAHAHAHAH.

Even my 4yo was like, Mom, don't let him talk to you like that. Say something mean to him. (?)

He tells her I'm mean because I don't listen to him. That I don't care about him. I'm incapable of forming complete sentences in my head right now. It's all stupidly aghast fragments.