He can be so mean; is this typical of an A
 

Things he says, "your too sensitive; that's a problem!" "What part of "no" do you not understand?"

He can be incredibly kind one minute and cruel, agitated, short tempered the next. You never know when he's going to have an outburst.

He says, You know (sarcastically) if you have a problem with x,y.z , this isn't going to work" always said as if I AM THE PROBLEM, like it's a threat to me to straighten up.

He likes to say, "you know what's wrong with you?"..." You should act/say/be this way or that way", "what's wrong with you is that you need to drink once in a while. I think that's what you need".

He will say subtle things to cut me down; make me think less of myself. When I stand up for myself, I'm told that I'm just too sensitive or that I act like a child.

Since I've express my concerns over his drinking, he's become meaner. The nice guy is starting to fade.

He still manages to say I love you after he upsets me. Then, he says kind/complimentary things to make up for the mean comments. What kind of love is this.? I'm getting more confused the deeper I am involved with him.

When he's nice, he's almost too nice (like he has a lot to make up for or that he knows he better be nice while he can, because he might turn mean)

This is verbal abuse. Yes it is very common for alcoholics to get mean and say terrible things. Sorry you are dealing with it. You deserve to be spoken to with respect. Can you get away from him when he speaks badly to you?

Yes, Carmen, it's typical. It's not love. It's deflection, meant to take the focus off of him and make you feel as if you're to blame. Not okay, and in your heart you know that.

Typical for me and most of the people I know involved with an A. We refer to it as Jeckle and Hyde (sp?). Sober, you love the guy. Drunk, you want to kill the guy. Don't know what it is about alcohol, but it seems to bring out the worst in most people. How many "happy" drunks have you heard about? And the worst part: if they are a blackout drinker, like mine is/was, then they don't remember any of it. "I can't imagine ever talking to you that way. Why would I say suck horrible things?", is what mine used to always say. Then, I was accused of lying because he "loved" me so much and would never behave so badly. Tried to record it once and got pushed across the kitchen. Didn't try that again. Wish I could say it gets better, but after attending al-anon and SR it won't unless they seek recovery---

Carmen220---from my experience--very, very common. The thing is---on his side of things, he is fighting a life and death (to him) battle within his brain with the disease which has control over him. He is doing everything possible to protect his ability to drink--to rationalize things to himself. One way is to deflect attention from himself by putting you down. To make you the bad guy.

From your side of the issue---living with constant character assasination, criticism, and other sundry of verbal abuses---your self-esteem and confidence plummets along with confusion and depression and anxiety---it literally can become a slow erosion of your soul.

The reason is most likely his disease (and maybe other issues that he might have, as well). But, it is not right that you should be destroyed in the process. This disease will take down the alcoholic and every person around him--if they let it. It is your responsibility to care about yourself enough to not become a casualty of his disease. Every creature has the right to protect itself. That includes us humans!!!...LOL

dandylion

It sounds like he's sober when he's mean; he's nicer if he's had something to drink. I can't tell who the real him is; the mean one or very kind one. I can't tell if he's had anything to drink or not, because he never acts drunk (his tolerance is high), so I can't tell. He's either mean or VERY nice and I have no idea which personality is caused by the drinking. maybe he's meaner when he hasn't had his alcohol. I just don't know.

Carmen---if you did "know"---what would you--what could you really do about it???

dandylion

X = his drinking

Y = his drinking

Z = his drinking

He is telling you and showing you exactly who and how he is.

You don't like this person, this person makes you feel bad about yourself, so why are you still sticking around?

We often try and blame their bad behavior on the alcohol. Thats why we spend all our time trying to get them sober. The truth is an alcoholics brain is so soaked from the alcohol that just because they are not consuming the substance doesn't mean they are sober.

What atalose just said.

agree 1000%, it appears the relationship is changing, and you simply do not like the person he is becoming, ( possible progression of his disease)

time to take better care of YOU.

I like/love the one personality. I feel like he's a multiple personality. I love one; I dislike the other. This is why it's SO hard.

This ^

Chances are, it isn't going to get better Carmen.

Are you satisfied with this kind of treatment for the rest of your life?

It also sounds like this guy just has a way of building himself up / protecting his interests at other people's expense.

He keeps showing you who he is and what to expect.
Tune in girlfriend--you deserve better:headbange

Yeah the verbal abuse is almost a little sad funny once you understand it.

Back during some real insane periods -- Mrs. Hammer was ranting to her Sponsor that I was supposed to be Verbally Abusive to her.

I am generally ascribed to have what ever she is actually doing . . . . (so I have had an Eating Disorder, tried to make her feel left out, on and on, all the nasty crap she pulls I am blamed/accused of doing)

Her sponsor sent her a book on Verbal Abuse. I read it. Not too bad, a little over done, as by the definitions just about anything can or cannot be Verbal Abuse.

However, in studying it all, I learned to identify the games, the passive aggressive routines, the backstabbing, and even the early markers for Emotional Dyregulation (the Hurricane, as my daughter calls it) . . . and what to do . . . .

And we just walk off. That is it. I announce I am not doing it, and walk off. Daughter pulls out her I-pod -- ear plugs in, and walks off. Does not really cure or control anything regarding Mrs. Hammer, but we are no longer part of any of it.

Just one person, there.

Need the wrecked car pictures, again? :)

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4496118

But I do follow what you are describing. Was talking with the T last week.

Talking how some of the Personality Disorder folks "flip" through personas -- do you know that aspect of some of the Mental Illness(es) behind some A's? Sorry to presume if you do not.

Has been severe enough around our house that you can see the switches and hear the voice changes right in front of you. Our daughter will even ask me "who" (meaning which one) I was talking to in regards to Mrs. Hammer.

Many long-term A's have Personality Disorder Mental Illnesses. So they use Alcohol, Drugs, etc. to try to self-medicate. Anyway, some T's that are not particularly well trained can even get sucked into DID (dissociate identify disorder) issues by the Mentally Ill A's behavior in this regard.

There a very few cells in your body over 10 years old. They constantly, grow, die and get replaced. Probably true for the brain as well. Given that these are almost always situations that have built up over years, mental pathways, and whole belief systems have formed in this decade of antagonism. Old ones have been discarded and rewritten. True for both of you but the changes may be larger in him. So yes, removing the Alcohol from the alcoholic won't instantly change them back to the person you met.

When they overindulge (even by their standards) and are feeling fragile, in central nervous system rebound, they're probably feeling nervous and timid and want to avoid conflict at all costs, they'll try to say things that please you. They also might turn on the charm to try win them some relationship capitol. It might remind you of the person you met but that is no longer your parter.

If they start a program, the reality of giving up alcohol kicks in, the PAWS, and you can't expect them to be happy about it. Their relationship with you may also remind them of the time they were ill, so they might withdraw for that reason.

A friend of mine has a drink problem and even if he cleaned up tomorrow, there's so many bad memories and things that cannot be unsaid, it's going to create problems on both sides of the fence.

Not saying every relationship is doomed even if they recover by any means but it's a long road back.

There is no "typical" when it comes to alcoholism.

Yes unfortunately, it is normal for an A to say all of those things. After awhile we get so used to it, we get confused with what's acceptable behavior. And it seems an active A will say all those nasty things while drunk, and while sober. I heard it for 10 years, what a bad mother/wife I was, and how everything I did was wrong. Well, my RAH quit drinking 4 months ago and he completely stopped saying those things to me. I mean, it's scary how conditioned I became to hearing it, it's almost weird now how I make dinner and he isn't criticizing what it is, how I prepared it, etc.. He just takes the plate and says thanks. Not that everything is all roses though, he is a changed man these days, definitely broken because of a decade of alcoholism. I'm sorry you are going through this, it's the worst. I hope to never have to experience it again, but I just take it one day at a time. :)

it's a milder form of the cycle of abuse. instead of his fists, he uses his words to demean and belittle you and then coax you back in.

The cycle of abuse may be described as:
1.Tension may arise within a relationship. It may be the result of a minor disagreement.
2.Tension continues to build over a period of hours, or days or perhaps months.
3.Something will trigger an abusive incident. This assault may be physical, psychological, or sexual. (See Types of Abuse.)
4.A period of calm follows. This is often called the "honeymoon phase." The abuser may buy his/her partner gifts or lavish attention on him/her, often feeling sorry for what has happened.
5.Over time, the above cycle changes. More small incidents will occur, tension will increase, and the cycle will begin again. Both partners want to believe incidents of abuse will not repeat themselves, but they usually do.

here's the thing Carmen....we do not deserve to be treated poorly by ANYONE for ANY reason, ever. you keep hanging onto shreds of the nice guy you think you see....compartmentalizing his various behaviors....step back and look at the WHOLE picture....who he is and how he treats you over time....not the 5 or 10 minutes he's "nice" and uses the L word.

Carmen, my AH is the same way. I sometimes think he's nicer when he's drinking than when he's sober. Unfortunately, I realized that it doesn't really matter whether there's been drinking or not. He is who he is, sober or drunk, and I needed to learn how to either accept that and deal with and face it or I had to prepare myself to leave the relationship. Can you live with this forever? Is this really how you want to live your life and spend your future? Only you know the answers to this.

It's a tough realization that there aren't multiple personalities at play here; its all a part of the one man. All the good, bad and ugly-- are all equally a part of his personality.

Sending hugs and wishing you peace, Carmen.

PS- I just finished reading a book called "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men." You may find it helpful. I did. I'm still processing what it means for me, but there is a lot of great information, and its a pretty interesting read.