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Old 03-12-2014, 08:40 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Carmen... I think it can be all interwoven. I think the people that are ones that truly only have an addiction problem are the ones that WANT to help themselves eventually and have successful recoveries. I have known several in my lifetime that have other obvious traits that go with it... especially NPD or OCD... and it's much more difficult for recovery there. In fact, I don't think anyone I know with NPD EVER truly became a nicer person without blaming others for their drinking because... it's not the alcoholism talking there so much as it is their NPD (which is rarely ever faced by the person with it).
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:10 AM
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I know that he has OCD. I don't know about the NPD. I do know that he started in high school because he was incredibly shy; it brought him out of his shell and it was cool to "party". I sometimes think he has borderline, due to his symptoms, but then again, it may just be due to the alcohol.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by carmen220 View Post
I know that he has OCD. I don't know about the NPD. I do know that he started in high school because he was incredibly shy; it brought him out of his shell and it was cool to "party". I sometimes think he has borderline, due to his symptoms, but then again, it may just be due to the alcohol.
Imagine all the things you could be doing with your life if you weren't so caught up in diagnosing and fixing this man so you can have a relationship with him. Seriously. I guarantee he's not spending nearly as much time examining himself as you are.
Go do something for yourself and get this guy out of your head for awhile.
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Old 03-22-2014, 02:50 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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I was just reviewing the comments on this thread to remind myself what you all had advised. Yesterday, he was mean again. We had been going along, no problems, talking on the phone, enjoying laughing and chatting about our week.

I was telling him how much I liked his parents, when suddenly, he said, "that's funny" "they don't like you". It was like bullet came out of no where and stuck me. I was clearly upset and told him "this isn't funny. is this one of your jokes (he finds humor in hurtful "jokes")? I said, "you used to say that they adored me. How is it now that they suddenly don't like me". He said, "they don't think we are right for each other". Again, I tried to get him to stop with the "joke", but he said he was serious.

It felt like a cruel mind game that he was playing. It's like for no reason, he wanted to upset/hurt me AND it worked. He said my response was like "a child and that he never dated anyone that was as emotional" as me. He then preceded to say, "you must have a low self esteem if you care so much about what other people think." I said, "there's nothing wrong with my self esteem. That was just cruel!"

Who would say this to their girlfriend (so casually) that they claimed to love and claimed his family loved as well?

Then he wanted to change the subject and keep talking as if nothing was wrong. Still, clearly upset, I told him I had to go. He was still talking when I hung up.

I was sad and in tears the rest of the day. I don't know if he's just mean, or the alcohol made him do it, or he is mental. Even if it were true, which I doubt, who would repeat that and why? His parents always acted like they liked me a lot(I have never been a drinker), especially when they learned that I managed to get him to an AA meeting.

I'm pretty sure he will eventually tell me that "what's wrong with you, can't you take a joke"? "your too sensitive". This IS emotional abuse, right? Wouldn't this upset anyone?
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:05 PM
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I feel that when that happens to me, I have to think, "Is he doing this for him or for me?" In other words, is he showering me with goodies because that's what's in the best interest of our relationship, or because he's manipulating me?

An example: If you are tight with money and he knows it, and you have a fight and he brings you expensive roses, that's a sign that he just doesn't get it--that perhaps he hopes you'll be sucked into the idea of his gift without seeing through it.

If he is doing things "for me" which are really "for him" that's a red flag.

It's definitely a red flag if he is demeaning you inbetween. Please find the disconnect in that. A person who really loves you will make you feel safe all the time.

Respect is something in the fabric of someone. If they respect you, it's not a sometimes thing.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:51 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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Carmen, you get to choose how you allow people to treat you. if anyone is mean or hurtful towards you, YOU have the right to evict them from your life. to stop contact. to quit going back for more.

it doesn't matter if it's alcohol fueled OR he is just an A-hole....he toys with you like a kid pulling wings off of flies. quit being the fly. you deserve better, and I mean huge volumes of better.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:54 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by carmen220 View Post
Who would say this to their girlfriend (so casually) that they claimed to love and claimed his family loved as well?
An emotional abuser would say this, yes. He finds humor in hurtful jokes, and then when the victim acts hurt or dares to call him on it, he turns it back on the victim. More deflection.

Unfortunately, I think his stretches of kindness are keeping you attached to this unhealthy relationship. It sounds like he keeps you pacified for a while and then attacks again. Have you asked yourself why you are willing to accept this from him?
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:09 PM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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Dear Carmen;

He keeps showing you he's mean and untrustworthy, you keep telling us about it,
we keep telling you what we see, you keep going back for more.

Hopefully, you will step out of the cycle soon and realize this person is just not nice
whatever is driving it. You deserve better.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:35 PM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Hawkeye, I know it must seem like I'm going "back for more", but truly, I just keep hoping for the best; to enjoy the good moments and pray that maybe things can work out and he'll stop.

I start to question myself, wondering whether I'm too sensitive or can't take a joke. then I get mad that I'm questioning myself, because the so-called joke WAS mean. Then I find myself asking you guys, "is he really being mean" or is it me? If he's trying to make me doubt myself, his tactic is working (somewhat). I DO know that his alcoholism is at the center of everything and I have to remember that.

Still, I keep wondering why he would choose to use this insult. He knows that I love family and that I am family oriented (even though I've lost most of my small family). So, he knows my sensitivities. But I keep asking myself why? why be mean to someone that has loved and cared about you? He knows that I want the drinking to stop. maybe that's an insult to his best friend (alcohol) and that's a reason to lash back at me.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest and think it all through.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:31 PM
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One of the things I have tried very hard to do is to stop asking "why." You can't make sense of irrational behavior. And in the end it doesn't matter why. The fact that he does it is information enough.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:32 PM
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He still manages to say I love you after he upsets me. Then, he says kind/complimentary things to make up for the mean comments. What kind of love is this.?
He's being nice to you some of the time, because if he was an a$$hole all of the time, you'd be less likely to stick around.

He sounds like he's got a control issue from he11.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:26 PM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by carmen220 View Post
But I keep asking myself why? why be mean to someone that has loved and cared about you?
Hi Carmen,
Have you read up on emotional/verbal abuse? There are great stickies on this forum, and there is loads of information on the internet, and in libraries.

Your partner's insults and behavior are pretty classic, textbook examples. You might find it very eye opening to see it in black and white, to see that it is part of a personality, a pattern of behavior, probably only exacerbated by the alcohol.

You are pretty deeply enmeshed, taking it very personally, trying to figure him out, probably walking on eggshells to prevent an attack. I suggest taking a break; inform yourself, get as much help and real life support for yourself as you can - from friends, family - a professional therapist?

He is not likely to change. But you can definitely change what you will tolerate, and fortify yourself so you are not susceptible to it anymore. Life is too damn short.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:24 PM
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Hello carmen, I'm very sorry you have been through so much. You do not deserve any of it.

Originally Posted by carmen220 View Post
Hawkeye, I know it must seem like I'm going "back for more", but truly, I just keep hoping for the best; to enjoy the good moments and pray that maybe things can work out and he'll stop.
I realize sometimes that being inside of a relationship is a whole different perspective than those of us have who are looking at it from the outside. Hope is not a plan. My apologies for being so blunt, but continuing to accept unacceptable behavior believing that something will work out when it never has in the past is perhaps naive at best.

Originally Posted by carmen220
I start to question myself, wondering whether I'm too sensitive or can't take a joke. then I get mad that I'm questioning myself, because the so-called joke WAS mean. Then I find myself asking you guys, "is he really being mean" or is it me? If he's trying to make me doubt myself, his tactic is working (somewhat). I DO know that his alcoholism is at the center of everything and I have to remember that.
What so many of us see very clearly is that he is mean. He is being purposefully mean, controlling, manipulative, condescending, and hateful to you. It has nothing to do with your being overly sensitive. This is real. This is who he is.

Originally Posted by carmen220
Still, I keep wondering why he would choose to use this insult. He knows that I love family and that I am family oriented (even though I've lost most of my small family). So, he knows my sensitivities. But I keep asking myself why? why be mean to someone that has loved and cared about you? He knows that I want the drinking to stop. maybe that's an insult to his best friend (alcohol) and that's a reason to lash back at me.
I believe he is mean because he can be. Because there are no consequences. Because you continue to stay no matter how verbally abusive he becomes. I fear his behavior will escalate.

I believe he is mean because he is a sick man, and it is not your responsibility to fix him or make him fulfill his potential.

I believe that you are worthy of love and respect, and that you have the skills to help yourself. I hope and pray that someday you will realize and fully understand that you deserve much better treatment.

Sending many hugs and prayers for brighter days ahead. Please do not hesitate to come here and vent away all that you need.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:43 PM
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Thanks again for allowing me to vent

He and I haven't talked for 2 days. I can't help but wonder if he thinks that I am the one who should be sorry, since I quickly said "I have to go" and then hung up (with him still talking). Of course I did that because he was so hurtful and was indifferent toward my feelings. A part of me wonders, maybe the alcohol has affected his brain so much that he wonders himself why he said it; maybe he's embarrassed or feels bad for having said it.

In the past, he would try to make up for misbehavior, but what he said feels unforgivable to me. How do I get past that? I wonder if most other people would feel that what he said was unforgiveable.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:51 PM
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sorry, I accidentally hit the save button twice.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by carmen220 View Post
Thanks again for allowing me to vent

He and I haven't talked for 2 days. I can't help but wonder if he thinks that I am the one who should be sorry, since I quickly said "I have to go" and then hung up (with him still talking). Of course I did that because he was so hurtful and was indifferent toward my feelings. A part of me wonders, maybe the alcohol has affected his brain so much that he wonders himself why he said it; maybe he's embarrassed or feels bad for having said it.

In the past, he would try to make up for misbehavior, but what he said feels unforgivable to me. How do I get past that? I wonder if most other people would feel that what he said was unforgiveable.
Nothing, to me, is unforgivable; what matters isn't the deed itself, as much as the attitude that follows.

Are you required to forgive him? No. Only you can choose that. But if he is unwilling to change or try to get better, why waste your time? Life is short to waste it on people who destroy you, either intentionally or not.

Forgiveness is also not the same as acceptance. You can forgive him, without accepting it, and while moving on with your life. I forgave my husband's addictions, but I refused to accept them, that's why I asked him to leave when I did. I loved him deeply, but had to protect myself and my children from him.

Thankfully, it was enough of a wakeup call for him that he got his act together. But if I hadn't? I still would have loved him, and forgiven him... he just wouldn't be in my life.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:16 AM
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by carmen220 View Post
Thanks again for allowing me to vent He and I haven't talked for 2 days. I can't help but wonder if he thinks that I am the one who should be sorry, since I quickly said "I have to go" and then hung up (with him still talking). Of course I did that because he was so hurtful and was indifferent toward my feelings. A part of me wonders, maybe the alcohol has affected his brain so much that he wonders himself why he said it; maybe he's embarrassed or feels bad for having said it. In the past, he would try to make up for misbehavior, but what he said feels unforgivable to me. How do I get past that? I wonder if most other people would feel that what he said was unforgiveable.
Since he shows no sign of giving up drinking, does it really matter whether the alcohol has affected his brain or if he is just kind of a jerk who is insensitive to your feelings?

Also it does not matter if anyone else in the world finds something unforgivable. It only matters if YOU do.
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by carmen220 View Post
Thanks again for allowing me to vent

He and I haven't talked for 2 days. I can't help but wonder if he thinks that I am the one who should be sorry, since I quickly said "I have to go" and then hung up (with him still talking). Of course I did that because he was so hurtful and was indifferent toward my feelings. A part of me wonders, maybe the alcohol has affected his brain so much that he wonders himself why he said it; maybe he's embarrassed or feels bad for having said it.

In the past, he would try to make up for misbehavior, but what he said feels unforgivable to me. How do I get past that? I wonder if most other people would feel that what he said was unforgiveable.
You don't. Something eventually has to make you realize that he is an unrecovered abusive alcoholic who has made no attempts to change WHATSOEVER.

And you keep asking us, and we keep telling you, and then you just keep HOPING that reality will magically change to suit your wishes.

This is who he is. Move on already. Or you will become even sicker than he is. Hes making you crazy.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:03 AM
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You ask a lot of questions that seem to lead to the idea that you are trying to FIGURE him out.

Are you trying to figure him out so that you will know how to fix him?

YOU cannot fix HIM.
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