Rewarding someone into recovery?
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 976
Originally Posted by m1k3 
The first thing that popped into my head when I read this was:
WOW, this is codie heaven! I'm being given permission to run her life by an authority figure who is telling me I am a good person for doing this! Sorry Anvil but this is better than chikken!
All I can say is thank God I never heard of this when I when still living in the crazy house.
Your friend,
WOW, this is codie heaven! I'm being given permission to run her life by an authority figure who is telling me I am a good person for doing this! Sorry Anvil but this is better than chikken!
All I can say is thank God I never heard of this when I when still living in the crazy house.
Your friend,
The idea of coaxing an addict to do the right thing with rewards really just rubs me the wrong way. I mean where is my reward for holding it all together all these years?
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Originally Posted by Stung
Attachment 21690
Oh I have no idea on the dog, that dog isn't mine. But dog shaming cracks me up and it was the first thing that came to mind when I read this post.
Oh I have no idea on the dog, that dog isn't mine. But dog shaming cracks me up and it was the first thing that came to mind when I read this post.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Ugh, my ex used to expect so much adulation for doing things that are basic adult responsibilities. Like a round of applause was required when he wrote a check to National Fuel or did a sinkful of dishes.
In the meantime I'm doing EVERYTHING else, including cleaning up after a grown man who can't always make it to the toilet when he needs to. How do you shame someone who is incapable of embarrassment and is in such deep denial that he invariably blamed his "accidents" on one of the animals?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 976
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
Ugh, my ex used to expect so much adulation for doing things that are basic adult responsibilities. Like a round of applause was required when he wrote a check to National Fuel or did a sinkful of dishes.
In the meantime I'm doing EVERYTHING else, including cleaning up after a grown man who can't always make it to the toilet when he needs to. How do you shame someone who is incapable of embarrassment and is in such deep denial that he invariably blamed his "accidents" on one of the animals?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 258
So for those of you who are interested I started a thread over in the newcomers to recovery section
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4510150
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4510150
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 171
My sponsor is reading the book for this a few weeks ago. She brought up the topic of CRAFT and what it was about, and suggested that I would have nothing to lose by "try it and see if it works."
I felt the hair raise on my head, my blood pressure rise, and the heat in my body flare up. I was immediately furious.
Isn't CRAFT everything I thought I was doing before Al-anon? Nothing I did ever changed his behavior!
I was absolutely appalled that she dared mention it! I was so upset I almost ended the meeting with her that night. I could not believe what I was hearing.
I told her in as much calmness as I could muster, "if you say another word about it, I will find another sponsor."
I will not pick this up, no way, no how!
Sue
I felt the hair raise on my head, my blood pressure rise, and the heat in my body flare up. I was immediately furious.
Isn't CRAFT everything I thought I was doing before Al-anon? Nothing I did ever changed his behavior!
I was absolutely appalled that she dared mention it! I was so upset I almost ended the meeting with her that night. I could not believe what I was hearing.
I told her in as much calmness as I could muster, "if you say another word about it, I will find another sponsor."
I will not pick this up, no way, no how!
Sue
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
just a lil thought I had:
I was told practicing alcoholics/addicts don't have relationships- they take hostages.
now im thinkin it aint only alcoholics/addicts that take hostages.
I was told practicing alcoholics/addicts don't have relationships- they take hostages.
now im thinkin it aint only alcoholics/addicts that take hostages.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hello 9111111,
I have never tried the CRAFT approach for any member of my family, so I am sorry to say that I do not have any personal experience I can share. There are some members on SR who have used this approach successfully.
Recovery decisions are highly personal. If my stepson came to me and told me he was using the "fill in the blank" recovery method, if he worked it and it worked for him, I would be thrilled.
The same is true for those of us on the Friends and Family side. If someone attends Al-Anon, Celebrate Recovery, SMART, uses personal counseling, or just talks to friends and it works for them, it's all good.
Remember everyone:
I have never tried the CRAFT approach for any member of my family, so I am sorry to say that I do not have any personal experience I can share. There are some members on SR who have used this approach successfully.
Recovery decisions are highly personal. If my stepson came to me and told me he was using the "fill in the blank" recovery method, if he worked it and it worked for him, I would be thrilled.
The same is true for those of us on the Friends and Family side. If someone attends Al-Anon, Celebrate Recovery, SMART, uses personal counseling, or just talks to friends and it works for them, it's all good.
Remember everyone:
Respect is essential. (Support and experience only please.) Recovery Method Debates will not be tolerated.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Hi Seren, I just wanted to say that I have no idea how this would work for an alcoholic but I do know this totally wreck my recovery as a Codie.
It's not meant as a criticism of the methodology but you would need to understand your own strengths and weaknesses to be able to use it. And to be honest, I couldn't.
Your friend,
It's not meant as a criticism of the methodology but you would need to understand your own strengths and weaknesses to be able to use it. And to be honest, I couldn't.
Your friend,
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
I completely agree with Mike. This might work for "normies" but for me as a codependent, I would revert to the manipulation and expectations and be right back to being angry/disappointed/miserable etc. I do not see how making the addict the center of one's universe and manipulating them can help us with our pain and mental turmoil.
As an alcoholic I don't know whether or not that technique would have worked on me. My two bouts with active alcoholism happened when I was single and no one relied on me emotionally. When I was in a relationship, I always ended up being the sober one who had to keep things together so I never had my own codie
From working with a lot of people who are active alcoholics and addicts I can say though that I am pretty sure those guys would find a way to get their reward and keep on using (get their cake and eat it too). They are good at pulling one over and would easily out manipulate the manipulator.
As an alcoholic I don't know whether or not that technique would have worked on me. My two bouts with active alcoholism happened when I was single and no one relied on me emotionally. When I was in a relationship, I always ended up being the sober one who had to keep things together so I never had my own codie
From working with a lot of people who are active alcoholics and addicts I can say though that I am pretty sure those guys would find a way to get their reward and keep on using (get their cake and eat it too). They are good at pulling one over and would easily out manipulate the manipulator.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Good Evening !
I had all these messages awaiting me... telling me CRAFT had become a hot topic. That's great it brings awareness & it doesn't sound like many people here have ever heard of it... so its all good. I posted the original article on the secular family forum, and there are others articles on CRAFT there also.
I meant to add my own personal story to that thread, but I have to say ... I forgot... busy, busy all the time. Anyway, I will put it in here for the record...
To answer one question.... I don't know how CRAFT would work if your dealing with codependency issues. In my own life I feel that I do have codependent tendencies... I think most people do at certain times in their life... I never had it cause problems for me, don't have any history in childhood or anything like this. I guess each person really has to look at the program and see how it would fit into their life, with their own specific needs. CRAFT is not meant to be controlling or manipulative. That would make it fall more into the codependent arena, and then it wouldn't be following the guidelines of the program itself...
~~~
So much activity on the CRAFT topic today; it's great- good publicity or bad... It brings awareness there are valid options for family outside of 12 step programs such as Alanon or Naranon.
I posted this article on CRAFT and will be sharing more as it is the approach taught to me by the doctors at my husbands non-12 step rehab.
So first for those that don’t know…CRAFT is endorsed by National Institute of Drug Abuse, Partnership Drug Free America, medical professionals, addiction doctors, therapist, and more. It's also used by family members at SMART recovery. You will find articles Pro- CRAFT in the NY times, Chicago Tribune and many other outlets.
I don't believe it's endorsed by AA however...although I do know family members who combine this with alanon (take what you want and leave the rest concept I'm assuming).
I share about CRAFT because it worked (still works) for me & my family. It was taught to me by one of those PhD doctors who specialize in addiction Medicine
My husbands addiction started with prescription pain pills; vidicon initially. Left untreated his addiction advanced to a wide variety of pain meds, xanax and coke. He entered treatment due to an intervention by myself, my parents, his brother, and a doctor.
He did not want rehab, but we insisted. He definitely did not want 3 months but we insisted.
I narrowed down his options; all non 12 step, evidence based approaches that dealt with root cause, multiple diagnosis, psychotherapy, cognitive behavior therapy, etc. Treatment that was tailored to him specifically.
A side note, none of our reasons for this type of treatment were based on religion. We are Christian and find spiritual support through our church.
While he was in rehab I was introduced to CRAFT. I used it to support his early recovery, a reminder to focus on my own self care, and to ready myself in case of relapse.
I credit CRAFT for encouraging communication between us, for helping me navigate those early days, weeks, months....when tensions can be high and nerves frazzled.
My husband and I have been on one amazing journey but we have come out of it stronger; both as individuals and as a couple. He has not relapsed and will have two years in April.
Last summer we began mentoring families through his rehab; sharing our experience, strength, hope with others.
So I share about CRAFT now knowing it is not recommended that family sit back and wait for their loved ones to seek treatment on their own; rock bottom is a myth.... Some die waiting for it to come.
Craft is a motivational approach more than anything. It is respectful, not manipulative, or forceful. Craft does not encourage family to enable their loved ones addiction, its focused on family's safety and self care first, it teaches how to map your own behavior along with the addicted persons, because we often play off each other emotionally. If we change our responses, often our loved ones sense this, and respond back differently. Craft also has no room for bitterness, teaches compassion, and believes people can be motivated by positive reinforcements as easily as negative ones.
Positive reinforcements are natural responses we feel and share with our loved one. They are not meant to be phony gestures, but instead acknowledgments when you see real effort put into changing behaviors. It's an ongoing acknowledgment that recovery is hard work.
CRAFT does work for many who wish to engage their loved ones in treatment. Does it work for everyone – of course not.
One last note, CRAFT does not take credit or suggest family take credit for their loved ones recovery. Recovery is an inside job.... Craft seeks to help you encourage treatment - so they can begin to face their addiction, get professional help when possible, and embrace recovery on their own.
If your a family member who would like to learn more about CRAFT, partnership drug free has trained professionals available to discuss your personal situation and analyze if CRAFT might work for your family. (online or toll free). SMART recovery also has trained facilitators, and weekly online meetings. All the aforementioned are FREE.
I will be happy to share more via P.M if anyone has additional questions for me specifically.
I share about CRAFT because along with therapy it is the method I used for my own recovery. I share to let others know it exists… and that sometimes it has positive results.
~~~
I had all these messages awaiting me... telling me CRAFT had become a hot topic. That's great it brings awareness & it doesn't sound like many people here have ever heard of it... so its all good. I posted the original article on the secular family forum, and there are others articles on CRAFT there also.
I meant to add my own personal story to that thread, but I have to say ... I forgot... busy, busy all the time. Anyway, I will put it in here for the record...
To answer one question.... I don't know how CRAFT would work if your dealing with codependency issues. In my own life I feel that I do have codependent tendencies... I think most people do at certain times in their life... I never had it cause problems for me, don't have any history in childhood or anything like this. I guess each person really has to look at the program and see how it would fit into their life, with their own specific needs. CRAFT is not meant to be controlling or manipulative. That would make it fall more into the codependent arena, and then it wouldn't be following the guidelines of the program itself...
~~~
So much activity on the CRAFT topic today; it's great- good publicity or bad... It brings awareness there are valid options for family outside of 12 step programs such as Alanon or Naranon.
I posted this article on CRAFT and will be sharing more as it is the approach taught to me by the doctors at my husbands non-12 step rehab.
So first for those that don’t know…CRAFT is endorsed by National Institute of Drug Abuse, Partnership Drug Free America, medical professionals, addiction doctors, therapist, and more. It's also used by family members at SMART recovery. You will find articles Pro- CRAFT in the NY times, Chicago Tribune and many other outlets.
I don't believe it's endorsed by AA however...although I do know family members who combine this with alanon (take what you want and leave the rest concept I'm assuming).
I share about CRAFT because it worked (still works) for me & my family. It was taught to me by one of those PhD doctors who specialize in addiction Medicine
My husbands addiction started with prescription pain pills; vidicon initially. Left untreated his addiction advanced to a wide variety of pain meds, xanax and coke. He entered treatment due to an intervention by myself, my parents, his brother, and a doctor.
He did not want rehab, but we insisted. He definitely did not want 3 months but we insisted.
I narrowed down his options; all non 12 step, evidence based approaches that dealt with root cause, multiple diagnosis, psychotherapy, cognitive behavior therapy, etc. Treatment that was tailored to him specifically.
A side note, none of our reasons for this type of treatment were based on religion. We are Christian and find spiritual support through our church.
While he was in rehab I was introduced to CRAFT. I used it to support his early recovery, a reminder to focus on my own self care, and to ready myself in case of relapse.
I credit CRAFT for encouraging communication between us, for helping me navigate those early days, weeks, months....when tensions can be high and nerves frazzled.
My husband and I have been on one amazing journey but we have come out of it stronger; both as individuals and as a couple. He has not relapsed and will have two years in April.
Last summer we began mentoring families through his rehab; sharing our experience, strength, hope with others.
So I share about CRAFT now knowing it is not recommended that family sit back and wait for their loved ones to seek treatment on their own; rock bottom is a myth.... Some die waiting for it to come.
Craft is a motivational approach more than anything. It is respectful, not manipulative, or forceful. Craft does not encourage family to enable their loved ones addiction, its focused on family's safety and self care first, it teaches how to map your own behavior along with the addicted persons, because we often play off each other emotionally. If we change our responses, often our loved ones sense this, and respond back differently. Craft also has no room for bitterness, teaches compassion, and believes people can be motivated by positive reinforcements as easily as negative ones.
Positive reinforcements are natural responses we feel and share with our loved one. They are not meant to be phony gestures, but instead acknowledgments when you see real effort put into changing behaviors. It's an ongoing acknowledgment that recovery is hard work.
CRAFT does work for many who wish to engage their loved ones in treatment. Does it work for everyone – of course not.
One last note, CRAFT does not take credit or suggest family take credit for their loved ones recovery. Recovery is an inside job.... Craft seeks to help you encourage treatment - so they can begin to face their addiction, get professional help when possible, and embrace recovery on their own.
If your a family member who would like to learn more about CRAFT, partnership drug free has trained professionals available to discuss your personal situation and analyze if CRAFT might work for your family. (online or toll free). SMART recovery also has trained facilitators, and weekly online meetings. All the aforementioned are FREE.
I will be happy to share more via P.M if anyone has additional questions for me specifically.
I share about CRAFT because along with therapy it is the method I used for my own recovery. I share to let others know it exists… and that sometimes it has positive results.
~~~
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
So I share about CRAFT now knowing it is not recommended that family sit back and wait for their loved ones to seek treatment on their own; rock bottom is a myth.... Some die waiting for it to come.
It took me a long time to accept that death is a risk and I have seen many here who have lost loved ones from those who kept trying and those who eventually walked away. I have been doing this for 27 years with my son. I am not a part of any program, but take what helps in any way I can. From my experience it is out of our hands in most cases that I have seen. I have seen too many to count come through here.
I always want to encourage my son and I'm willing to learn new ways of doing that, but I know I can't bring him to recovery. I have 27 years that shows me that in his case. I hope it does work for some, but there are many of us here who also have to survive this. I know my son's addiction has made me feel suicidal on more than one occasion early in my journey.
I have learned to talk to him respectfully, encourage him, let go of resentments, set up good boundaries most of time, and support his efforts when he tries to find recovery. I also have to keep my distance many times. Right now I am attending family group weekly at his rehab. He only arrived there after being homeless, cold, and hungry when he hit a hard bottom I could not prevent. I couldn't prevent it even if it may have caused his death.
So I guess my point is that no one should feel any guilt for the method they choose to get through this. It's no picnic.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
I should clarify Morning Glory.. I ...sat back and waited, because I ...thought he would stop on his own at first. Later I ...was under the assumption he needed to stop on his own for recovery to be possible. it took me a long time to dispel that notion in my own mind. Now I understand and believe whats endorsed by NIDA - people do not have to want treatment in order for it to be effective. It can be successful regardless of how they enter treatment.. if its encouraged by a loved one, the workplace, or a court, etc. The earlier the better IMO.
My comments are not about anyone but myself and the false beliefs I had during my journey.
My comments are not about anyone but myself and the false beliefs I had during my journey.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by allforcnm
I should clarify Morning Glory.. I ...sat back and waited, because I ...thought he would stop on his own at first. Later I ...was under the assumption he needed to stop on his own for recovery to be possible. it took me a long time to dispel that notion in my own mind. Now I understand and believe whats endorsed by NIDA - people do not have to want treatment in order for it to be effective. It can be successful regardless of how they enter treatment.. if its encouraged by a loved one, the workplace, or a court, etc. The earlier the better IMO.
My comments are not about anyone but myself and the false beliefs I had during my journey.
My comments are not about anyone but myself and the false beliefs I had during my journey.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
If anyone needs additional information about CRAFT, there is quite a bit of information that is publicly available. If you have never visited the National Institute on Druge Abuse website (sponsored by the National Institutes of Health), you may find it worth your time. It is filled with federally-funded (United States) research information. It is my understanding that CRAFT is taught in the Family meetings associated with the SMART recovery program for alcoholics and substance abusers.
I think that, on this thread at least, everyone has had the opportunity to have their say. With that in mind, this thread is now closed.
I think that, on this thread at least, everyone has had the opportunity to have their say. With that in mind, this thread is now closed.
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