New Here, Alcoholic Porn/Sex Addicted Husband
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Thank you for ur response Catherine628. You're right, whether he fits some clinical definition or not is beside the point. I know I need trust & respect & monogamy & sobriety in a relationship. He is going into rehab, but even with that I know better now than to have huge expectations. It gives me hope to know you went through similar & you & your kids are doing okay without him. I hope I can get the courage to leave him if he does not get serious about recovery while in rehab.
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Took me more than a year to file for divorce after finding my AXH's email to a prostitute (and multiple dating website profiles, porn, etc.). Mine refused to go to rehab until a court ordered it (unsurprisingly was unsuccessful, he is still actively drinking).
*Therapy helped me understand his dual alcohol and sex addictions and how there was nothing I could do to change it.
* I'd have dumped him immediately but for our young child and laws that give even negligent drunks almost 50/50 custody unless they physically harm the child.
* I wish I could say my child is doing OK in a situation where a drunk has him for 2-3 weekends per month, but the truth is the child gets little sleep, watches TV constantly, and likely has been exposed to porn or worse based on his exhibited behaviors.
*Therapy helped me understand his dual alcohol and sex addictions and how there was nothing I could do to change it.
* I'd have dumped him immediately but for our young child and laws that give even negligent drunks almost 50/50 custody unless they physically harm the child.
* I wish I could say my child is doing OK in a situation where a drunk has him for 2-3 weekends per month, but the truth is the child gets little sleep, watches TV constantly, and likely has been exposed to porn or worse based on his exhibited behaviors.
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I'm so sorry, what a nightmare.. I really feel for you. I start individual therapy this month & hope it helps me, too. Ugh, custody.. My AH is very good with the kids now that he is not drinking enough to get drunk & he also was when he was sober, but when he was drinking heavily he would either pass out & neglect was an issue or blackout & go into frightening rages. The rages were very rare, but super frightening. My daughter witnessed that only once long enough for me to wake her up & quickly escape to the car. Drunk driving was also an issue when he blacked out. It is pretty much a given if I leave he'll start drinking heavily based on past experience. At least now if I notice he is drunk at all I either ask him to stay somewhere else or take the kids & go elsewhere. Finances are also an issue. We are totally immersed in medical debt. I feel trapped for the time being because of it. I wish I could have real hope that he will stop drinking for good & get sexual sobriety with this upcoming residential rehab + intensive outpatient program. I feel so hurt it is hard to imagine trusting him again even if there was such a miracle. Do you have any future plans of contesting the 50/50 custody? Of course, he is so full of promises right now.. Says he's going to quit drinking, etc. He was sober a year after rehab before & maybe would have stayed sober if he had AA & a program. Unfortunately we sent him to an anti-AA facility notorious for fraud because we could not find a rehab that would take him here & we didn't really know enough about alcoholism, 12-step programs, etc, at the time (we did an intervention). I just learned that sexual sobriety means zero porn & never masturbating alone, among other things. If he actually agreed to that & stuck with it I think I would be willing to work on things (& I know the chances are astronomical he won't) but right now I feel anger, disgust, deep betrayal, just wanting out mostly, and at the same time sad.
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I think you need to consider that you have two separate issues here, alcoholism and Porn/Sex (addiction)?? I say that in question, and will get to it in a moment.
Alcoholism can and does lower inhibitions, and people do, often, make terrible choices. However, not all alcoholics cheat on their sig others, and when they do IMO, its not due to the alcohol MAKING them do things they wouldn't do otherwise. You need to think about that because the alcoholism can (and often is) used as an excuse for improper behavior, and the A is given a hall pass based on their inability to "control" themselves. Its bullsh1t.
Now to the porn/cheating issue. When someone has already exhibited untrustworthy behavior believing them is the wrong choice to make. I wouldn't buy an explanation "but I never did anything with these women" under any circumstance. Nor would I take the time to try and figure out if he did or didn't. Get yourself tested for STD's and if you are clear hallelujah, but that also doesn't prove he did or didn't have sex with someone else.
I was with someone like this once who was not an alcoholic. Hear me loud and clear, take the alcoholism out of this issue. I don't know if its addiction, obsession, or if its just what turns them on. IMO, it just what turns them on. Rewiring what turns us on sexually is a monumental task, and seldom accomplished. IMO drug and alcohol addiction is less a formidable foe than sexual addiction or obsession its easier to get and free…its right at your finger tips, its easy to hide and the hiding part of it is also part of the appeal.
In my circumstance after many 'forgives" I moved on. In order to be with that person I had to police him 24 hours a day and that's not a relationship. Additionally there is not a fence one can build high enough to contain another human being. In that relationship he got smarter and I got crazier trying to catch him. The behavior only stopped long enough to lull me into moderate security that it wasn't going on anymore. It was, and it became so complex in the lengths he went to hide it, and the technology that afforded him the ability to do so, that I hired a PI. In reflecting on that period of time now it saddens me that I stayed and did these things trying to believe someone that had lied to me so many times. Stupid, just stupid.
So that's my .02 - sorry you are going through this and wishing you the best.
Alcoholism can and does lower inhibitions, and people do, often, make terrible choices. However, not all alcoholics cheat on their sig others, and when they do IMO, its not due to the alcohol MAKING them do things they wouldn't do otherwise. You need to think about that because the alcoholism can (and often is) used as an excuse for improper behavior, and the A is given a hall pass based on their inability to "control" themselves. Its bullsh1t.
Now to the porn/cheating issue. When someone has already exhibited untrustworthy behavior believing them is the wrong choice to make. I wouldn't buy an explanation "but I never did anything with these women" under any circumstance. Nor would I take the time to try and figure out if he did or didn't. Get yourself tested for STD's and if you are clear hallelujah, but that also doesn't prove he did or didn't have sex with someone else.
I was with someone like this once who was not an alcoholic. Hear me loud and clear, take the alcoholism out of this issue. I don't know if its addiction, obsession, or if its just what turns them on. IMO, it just what turns them on. Rewiring what turns us on sexually is a monumental task, and seldom accomplished. IMO drug and alcohol addiction is less a formidable foe than sexual addiction or obsession its easier to get and free…its right at your finger tips, its easy to hide and the hiding part of it is also part of the appeal.
In my circumstance after many 'forgives" I moved on. In order to be with that person I had to police him 24 hours a day and that's not a relationship. Additionally there is not a fence one can build high enough to contain another human being. In that relationship he got smarter and I got crazier trying to catch him. The behavior only stopped long enough to lull me into moderate security that it wasn't going on anymore. It was, and it became so complex in the lengths he went to hide it, and the technology that afforded him the ability to do so, that I hired a PI. In reflecting on that period of time now it saddens me that I stayed and did these things trying to believe someone that had lied to me so many times. Stupid, just stupid.
So that's my .02 - sorry you are going through this and wishing you the best.
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Redatlanta, my experience is similar and I agree with your conclusions. After the outrageous porn addiction surfaced, and I really looked back, I realized that the roots of it had been just under the surface for many years. I just hadn't seen it.
Once I had to weed a long neglected garden that appeared to have some surface weeds. When I started in, I found a deep entrenched network of tenacious weed roots that had dug themselves in and strangled the roots of the plants I treasured. It took hours and the equivalent of a hacksaw to chop out each little determined tendril.
In my experience, what I saw as his porn addiction, he saw as a preference, a predilection. He toned down the outrageous part of it, but I don't think he wanted to eradicate it.
Finally understood it wasn't my garden to weed.
ShootingStar1
Once I had to weed a long neglected garden that appeared to have some surface weeds. When I started in, I found a deep entrenched network of tenacious weed roots that had dug themselves in and strangled the roots of the plants I treasured. It took hours and the equivalent of a hacksaw to chop out each little determined tendril.
In my experience, what I saw as his porn addiction, he saw as a preference, a predilection. He toned down the outrageous part of it, but I don't think he wanted to eradicate it.
Finally understood it wasn't my garden to weed.
ShootingStar1
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This is what leaves me with an utter sense of defeat, not for myself & life, but concerning attempting to save the marriage. I guess only time will tell as he goes through rehab & therapy. I immediately called a therapist to set up an appointment for myself, upped my Al-Anon meeting attendance & made an appointment to get checked for STDs. In the clear for HIV, thank God, & waiting for the rest of the results to come back in. Initially I did a lot of detective work after finding out that after the affair he went & set up ads. Now I am not monitoring him at all. I did save the evidence I found. He says I can look at his computer & cellphone at any time, but we all know that doesn't mean anything. The reason I stopped monitoring him is that I don't want to go back to that crazy feeling like I had when I first realized the scale of his alcoholism & how much he was hiding booze & trips to the bar. I know I can go in & get his deleted text messages, etc, and that he has another e-mail account & sometimes I feel tempted, but then I think, really what will it solve? I already know enough. I know he is capable of betraying me, lying to me, cheating on me & doing it again after being caught & apologizing. I don't trust him & cannot trust him anytime in the near future, if ever again. I read one article about porn/sex addiction saying some therapists encourage annual lie detector tests to keep the perpetrator accountable. That sounds too exhausting to me. I want to be a spouse in a marriage built on trust, not a prison warden. It is different with the alcoholism because with that I can tell if he is too drunk to stay at home. With this it is much more scary to me because of STDs. I'm not sure if he is lying to me or just that much in denial himself when he now promises that he's going to earn back my trust. He keeps saying how he never thought about any of it as cheating.
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He keeps saying how he never thought about any of it as cheating.
I love their insane logic. It's like saying I didn't know murder was against the law, so that makes it OK. So glad you're taking care of yourself.
And I had to chuckle at your "prison warden" comment. Who on earth wants to live like that?
Thanks for the update. Glad to hear you're doing so well and making good, healthy choices to detach from his craziness.
I love their insane logic. It's like saying I didn't know murder was against the law, so that makes it OK. So glad you're taking care of yourself.
And I had to chuckle at your "prison warden" comment. Who on earth wants to live like that?
Thanks for the update. Glad to hear you're doing so well and making good, healthy choices to detach from his craziness.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Oh little bird, my heart is CRUSHED for you. I was in the same position, minus kids just a few days over 2 months ago. We were on holiday sharing one laptop when i came across his fake facebook page and fake e-mail both with saved passwords, while he was at the store. I had no doubt this was the end. Facebook, craigslist, and an affair (as i find out now--just shortly after my discovery--was much more on-line than it was real life--two nights, but two nights was two too many) i FLIPPED my lid. I did all the detective work (still do), but the difference I think, is that I had been praying for my AH to hit bottom and that day he did.
He has not had a drink since, we were in CT (couples therapy) weekly (and still go) as soon as we got home. That was a long horrible holiday. Just reading about yours shakes me up.
Last year was a TRULY lost year, a culmination of years of drinking coupled with internet porn which after YEARS of watching, became his gateway drug to attempted hookups, stippers and finally his two night affair. i had N O I D E A--NONE. I understand the shock and horror.
No one could have told me two months ago that I would still be with him, and actually more connected, honest and open than ever. It has everything to do with his attitude and how he responds.
I know many will tell you to leave, because they would. I won't tell you to stay because I did. I am willing to stick around and see if our "honeymoon phase" lasts.
My sober AH is a wonderful man, who was deeper in the bottle than i ever knew, and I thought I knew everything.
Two places, things, i can recommend. The Betrayed Wives club--a website. Dont let the title put you off, it is a lifesaver. The other a book called "after the affair".
My biggest hug to you. I know exactly how you feel. Only someone who has been through this can even come close to feeling the absolout shock and betrayal.
I am willing to give it all another chance as my AH feels like a different and better person. His true self. Judgment not clouded by drink.
I thought if this, an affiar, ever happened to me I would be gone. This was a boundry that I knew I had. All of a sudden I did not have it anymore because for the FIRST time he said "i will NOT drink anymore" Not "i will try to quit" not "i will only have a beer" but he said he would stop. He has stopped. It is like living with a different man.
Do I know he could relapse on either count? of course. Does it scare the hell out of me? you bet.
The sad part is this will always be a part of our lives. The better part is, because of this awful part, things are better now and i pray every day they will stay better. And we both work to keep them better.
It takes faith and love and work.
I am so sorry for what you have been through and I hope and pray that rehab will help with a clear decision for your future. Again, my heart is with you.
He has not had a drink since, we were in CT (couples therapy) weekly (and still go) as soon as we got home. That was a long horrible holiday. Just reading about yours shakes me up.
Last year was a TRULY lost year, a culmination of years of drinking coupled with internet porn which after YEARS of watching, became his gateway drug to attempted hookups, stippers and finally his two night affair. i had N O I D E A--NONE. I understand the shock and horror.
No one could have told me two months ago that I would still be with him, and actually more connected, honest and open than ever. It has everything to do with his attitude and how he responds.
I know many will tell you to leave, because they would. I won't tell you to stay because I did. I am willing to stick around and see if our "honeymoon phase" lasts.
My sober AH is a wonderful man, who was deeper in the bottle than i ever knew, and I thought I knew everything.
Two places, things, i can recommend. The Betrayed Wives club--a website. Dont let the title put you off, it is a lifesaver. The other a book called "after the affair".
My biggest hug to you. I know exactly how you feel. Only someone who has been through this can even come close to feeling the absolout shock and betrayal.
I am willing to give it all another chance as my AH feels like a different and better person. His true self. Judgment not clouded by drink.
I thought if this, an affiar, ever happened to me I would be gone. This was a boundry that I knew I had. All of a sudden I did not have it anymore because for the FIRST time he said "i will NOT drink anymore" Not "i will try to quit" not "i will only have a beer" but he said he would stop. He has stopped. It is like living with a different man.
Do I know he could relapse on either count? of course. Does it scare the hell out of me? you bet.
The sad part is this will always be a part of our lives. The better part is, because of this awful part, things are better now and i pray every day they will stay better. And we both work to keep them better.
It takes faith and love and work.
I am so sorry for what you have been through and I hope and pray that rehab will help with a clear decision for your future. Again, my heart is with you.
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Thanks Booo. Thank you for the website & book recommendations. I will check them out. I always told my self infidelity is the one thing I would definitely leave over, too. I'm still leaning towards leaving & would not be staying if he hadn't taken initiative to get himself into rehab. If he gets & stays sober so we can do counseling & sticks with his program I promised him I would at least go to counseling with him, but cannot promise past that. He put up an Accountible2You account on his phone & computer & put filters on our web access at the house. So, I see some of these actions, but I still cannot trust him because I caught him the first time having that FB affair & heard all the sorries & supposably at that time he gave me the whole truth & shared his passwords, etc, only to find out there was much more going on. I'm so glad ur husband quit drinking altogether. It does sound like he really hit bottom. Hopefully mine will, too. Will keep praying for all of us.
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Also want to say how helpful it feels to know someone went thru what I am going thru..fake FB acct, Craigslist, secret e-mail address, active alcoholism, affair, etc.. I gave in to temptation & looked at his cellphone history last night & it showed all the subject headings to the Craigslist ads he looked at, responded to & those who responded to him. He had ads for women (& 99% searched for women) but also couples & of course, it was obviously female prostitutes & gay/bi men who responded to him. Ugh. Maybe I should not have looked. He already told me as much, but still hurts to see it. I feel all this misdirected anger, too. Years ago one of my best friends was murdered bc he was going to testify in defense of his sister who was abducted & sexually trafficked (long story). I know pathetically little about porn (but just started reading the book Pornified & ordered the book you mentioned, Porn Nation & Your Sexually Addicted Spouse to try to educate myself better) but am painfully aware of how common sex trafficking is in our city & how often the women on Craigslist are NOT there by personal choice. And the FB affair with his XGF, that felt personal. He considered at one point lying to me to tell me he was going to Vegas to work for his brother when actually he was considering going there to meet up with her. I still cannot comprehend how he could betray me while I was pregnant both times & he even put up one ad during his ill-fated one year of sobriety.
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Do not feel guilty at ALL for not trusting him. This is all so fresh you should not be expected to, by ANYONE. Including him, including yourself.
There were many things I wanted to know and a few things I did not want to know. I too saw who he wrote to, who wrote back, the one time he hooked up with a craigslist ad (horrible) I saw it all.
A lot of flirting with disaster started early in the year. I knew something was wrong, but i was so focused on the alcoholism that i never thought about him cheating on me. NOT ONCE. I came to this website shortly after he had a breakdown (while drunk) He was on his KNEES begging me to help him with his drinking (after i had offered him help for years) I told him i could NOT help him---this was HIS problem.
But that breakdown he was having was in response to his craigs list hook up. (which i had no idea about) He had crossed the line he had been flirting with for MONTHS. He cheated.
With that--the drinking completly escalated, him trying to drown out his guilt with booze, and the booze making it worse. And I had pretty much shut him out trying to detach with love. It was a horrible vicious cycle.
You have every right to ask any question you want (be careful though because once you know something you cant unknow it and there really are some things you might not want to know).
I do not think anyone can get through this without the help of a therapist. I know I would not be able to have made it this far without one.
It IS incomprehensible what your husband has done, it is incomprehensible what mine has done. I do not know what i would do if it happened again.
I have passwords to everything now, including his paypal, his bank accout, his western union (anything he could pay for a secret phone with). There is no way to ever be 100 percent sure that he is not (or anyone is not) buying a throwaway phone with cash, or using a secret app or something, but I can tell you this, our lives have changed so much that I am chosing to believe him unless proven guilty. the 13 years previous were fine (outside of the alcohol) He's a good man who made awful booze driven choices last year. Awful. I am just sick about what you are going through. I work up this morning wondering how you were.
There were many things I wanted to know and a few things I did not want to know. I too saw who he wrote to, who wrote back, the one time he hooked up with a craigslist ad (horrible) I saw it all.
A lot of flirting with disaster started early in the year. I knew something was wrong, but i was so focused on the alcoholism that i never thought about him cheating on me. NOT ONCE. I came to this website shortly after he had a breakdown (while drunk) He was on his KNEES begging me to help him with his drinking (after i had offered him help for years) I told him i could NOT help him---this was HIS problem.
But that breakdown he was having was in response to his craigs list hook up. (which i had no idea about) He had crossed the line he had been flirting with for MONTHS. He cheated.
With that--the drinking completly escalated, him trying to drown out his guilt with booze, and the booze making it worse. And I had pretty much shut him out trying to detach with love. It was a horrible vicious cycle.
You have every right to ask any question you want (be careful though because once you know something you cant unknow it and there really are some things you might not want to know).
I do not think anyone can get through this without the help of a therapist. I know I would not be able to have made it this far without one.
It IS incomprehensible what your husband has done, it is incomprehensible what mine has done. I do not know what i would do if it happened again.
I have passwords to everything now, including his paypal, his bank accout, his western union (anything he could pay for a secret phone with). There is no way to ever be 100 percent sure that he is not (or anyone is not) buying a throwaway phone with cash, or using a secret app or something, but I can tell you this, our lives have changed so much that I am chosing to believe him unless proven guilty. the 13 years previous were fine (outside of the alcohol) He's a good man who made awful booze driven choices last year. Awful. I am just sick about what you are going through. I work up this morning wondering how you were.
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Thank you Booo. So much in common with our situations. My AH did the same, way upped his drinking (& started smoking) when he crossed the line. I also was so focused in his drinking that infidelity never occurred to me. He got mean, too, more sarcastic & critical. He kept saying how he couldn't talk to me. I noticed the change, but again, thought it was the drinking. Since it all blew open all the meanness has disappeared. He also quit smoking & finally is willing to go to rehab. Hopefully it was a blessing in disguise, but if not, I finally hit bottom and am really ready to let him go if his actions do not follow through on his word.
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Hopeful4 of course it "wasn't cheating"..just like, "I haven't really been drinking," means "I just drank a couple bottles of wine, not whiskey," or something like that.. I think I'm starting to catch on to this crazy-making game..
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I can only say this with a smirk now, because when I first heard it I almost died--Initially he said -he thought that I would find the craigs list WORSE than the actual affiar. That is what he was most embarrassed about, and well he should have been, but to take his penis and some form of his drunken heart to bed with someone? 1000 times worse. Not exactly a Sophie's choice, but pretty excruciating. Some men really do think that chat rooms, and sex talk online/ texting is not a form of cheating. I think that applies to a lot of men, not just alcoholics. Insane, I know.
As for me and the AH? That is completly OFF limits.
Gee I thought that would be a given, so it never crossed my mind to bring it up before this---Craigs list was not even on my RADAR.
Oddly, I don't have a problem with porn. Or I should say, I think this is pretty typical behaviour (a generalization of course) for many men since and WELL before the advent of the internet. That's our personal limilt.
I know for many that is unacceptable, and that is a perfectly fine boundry to have too.
hang in there little bird, I know you must know by now, none of this is your fault. none of it.
As for me and the AH? That is completly OFF limits.
Gee I thought that would be a given, so it never crossed my mind to bring it up before this---Craigs list was not even on my RADAR.
Oddly, I don't have a problem with porn. Or I should say, I think this is pretty typical behaviour (a generalization of course) for many men since and WELL before the advent of the internet. That's our personal limilt.
I know for many that is unacceptable, and that is a perfectly fine boundry to have too.
hang in there little bird, I know you must know by now, none of this is your fault. none of it.
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Im so sorry for what you are going through LittleBird..
I do understand to a certain extent. My husband had an affair (lasted months) when he was actively using drugs, drinking the whole bit. We were not living together at the time, but not officially apart if that makes sense.... I found out through a friend who thought I should know he had moved a girlfriend in with him.
Its a horrible pain, and I don't think you can do much but feel it. Feel all the feelings, ask all the questions, give yourself time to sort it all out. There was anger, hurt, fear, insecurities, pain, and lots of crying for me. I also never thought my husband would cheat, or have a long standing affair because we were best friends, connected at the soul is what I always believed.
He too was very remorseful and has done everything he can to be forgiven, make amends, and prove his love. Marriage counseling helped us the most, it gave me a lot of insight into my husband’s emotional state, as well as his state of mind during the time of his addiction. He felt abandoned and alone, insecure, and tried to fix himself with someone else who told him he was wonderful, and didn't care about the drugs (because she used too). Anyway, I know in our case it was the drugs... that caused him to cheat, and we have worked through it now and the relationship is stronger for all the work. Its been two years for us now…
Im so sorry for what your going through. Please take care of yourself, don't deny your feelings. Talk to your friends or family who are close because you need to have people to lean on. I would also suggest private therapy as an outlet - helped me tremendously. I think only time will direct your next steps.
I do understand to a certain extent. My husband had an affair (lasted months) when he was actively using drugs, drinking the whole bit. We were not living together at the time, but not officially apart if that makes sense.... I found out through a friend who thought I should know he had moved a girlfriend in with him.
Its a horrible pain, and I don't think you can do much but feel it. Feel all the feelings, ask all the questions, give yourself time to sort it all out. There was anger, hurt, fear, insecurities, pain, and lots of crying for me. I also never thought my husband would cheat, or have a long standing affair because we were best friends, connected at the soul is what I always believed.
He too was very remorseful and has done everything he can to be forgiven, make amends, and prove his love. Marriage counseling helped us the most, it gave me a lot of insight into my husband’s emotional state, as well as his state of mind during the time of his addiction. He felt abandoned and alone, insecure, and tried to fix himself with someone else who told him he was wonderful, and didn't care about the drugs (because she used too). Anyway, I know in our case it was the drugs... that caused him to cheat, and we have worked through it now and the relationship is stronger for all the work. Its been two years for us now…
Im so sorry for what your going through. Please take care of yourself, don't deny your feelings. Talk to your friends or family who are close because you need to have people to lean on. I would also suggest private therapy as an outlet - helped me tremendously. I think only time will direct your next steps.
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