Not certain that I am doing the right thing
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Not certain that I am doing the right thing
My middle daughter, whom is 27 y/o and has a nearly 5 y/o autistic son, is an alcoholic. I myself am a recovering alcoholic who will have 13 years of sobriety next month. Sorry for the long story but background is important to explain what is happening now.
For several years now I have been trying to help my daughter get on her feet just as I did her sister (who was successful and is now independent). Initially this help was just to bring her and her 9 m/o son at the time here from another state and let them stay with us to remove them from an abusive environment. She lived with my partner and I for nearly a year and a half. She had just finished vet tech school when she got here and we tried to find her work in that field. She could not seem to hold a job and went through 3 while living with us.
2 and a half years ago my partners mother bought us a house near her so it would be more convenient to help her since we were up until then driving across town to help her when she needed it. She is in her mid 80's and is needing more and more help each year. When we left our home we let both of my daughters stay there under the condition that they pay us rent which would pay the mortgage. During this time my daughter decided she did not want to be a vet tech and took up construction work. It only took about a year for my younger daughter, the alcoholic, to decide that she did not want to live with her sister because she did not want any responsibility when it came to cleaning up after herself or her son nor did she want the responsibility for his care whenever someone else was around. This was the same thing she had done while living with us but we fought her the whole time about it. So she found an apartment for herself and her son. When we cleaned up the basement of the home which is where she had been living we found it to be a pig sty. We made 2 trailer full runs to the dump of just trash, dirty diapers, old food, etc... We gathered up 5 large trash bags of beer and alcohol bottles. We had to clean the carpets because they were so disgusting from the filth that had been on them. We found maggots growing in the trash left on the floor. To no exaggeration it was filthy and disgusting. My other daughter was relieved when she left as she finally told us about the drunken stupors my daughter had been having on a fairly regular basis and at that time she wanted me to call social services.
We talked to my daughter about the mess and she claimed it was just because she did not like living there and things would be different in her apt. In the year and a half living there we have been inside her apartment 4 times. She normally meets us outside or blocks the doorway so we can not come in. Two of those time it was fairly messy; dirty dishes in the sink, empty potato chip bags laying around on the floor, trash bags sitting just outside the back door, etc... but not as filthy as she had left the basement. Once when I asked her about not letting us in she told me she was embarrassed because it was messy so we showed up later that day with cleaning supplies and told her we were coming in to clean. She got angry with us and would not let us in. She told us we further embarrassed her by doing that. There were times when I would call during the day and it sounded like she was hung over but most of the time we communicate by text so a lot of her drinking has slipped by me. Her work has become more and more sporadic over the past year and a half and she has not worked at all in 6 months.
We have always helped both of my daughters out by paying their car insurance in full when it is due then letting them pay us back that way saving them money that they would have had to pay the insurance company had the money been paid to them in payments. We have always helped them when they have had emergencies like a transmission went out on a car and then let them pay us back that money in payments as we know it is hard to get by in this economy. Our intent though has been that our help be for emergencies not daily living costs. Unfortunately over the past 6 months that has not been the case with my daughter.
She started out asking for food money. For a while we would give her $40 here and there to help out but then as it grew to be a regular thing we decided that if she needed help with food she needed to apply for food stamps or go to a food bank as that is a daily living expense not an emergency. So we talked to her about food stamps, her response was she made too much money. I had trouble believing it since she was living off unemployment but I did not argue instead we told her we would take her to a food bank. We took her to a pantry style food bank where she could walk in and shop just like at a grocery store. She has not been back since but also had not asked us for food.
During the past 8 months she has needed more and more help paying her rent until the past 5 months we have just made the payment in full for her rather than see my autistic grandson homeless on the street. I can not live with my daughter so we will not take her in. I can not live like she does as I like my house clean. She takes over and her things are everywhere, no space is not touched by her mess. I also fight with PTSD and the constant motion and noise, which raises my anxiety, is detrimental to my recovery (that is what my doctors have said). Her sister will not let her live with her again as they parted on bad terms and because of the filth she chooses to live in.
In December we took a trip to visit my partners parents in Arizona. At 4 am one morning we got a call from my oldest daughter because she did not know what to do. My daughter had called her drunk and threatening suicide. While my partner was on the phone with my oldest daughter I tried contacting my other daughter who would not answer her phone. She finally replied to a text when I threatened to send the police to her home if she did not respond. In the meantime my other daughter got to her sisters apt. I gave her suicide hotline numbers and she promised to call them. The next day she decided that it was all because she had drank something she should not have and she did not need help.
For the past year now my oldest daughter has been telling me about her sisters drinking and how out of hand it is, they have mutual friends. I have been suspecting that her not working has more to do with her drinking than there not being work available as construction is way up where we live. Because of the drinking and her not wanting to get help for either mental health issues of the alcohol my partner and I decided it was time to start pulling back the help especially since the help was only intended to be for emergencies to begin with no daily living costs. So I wrote her a letter, she will not listen when talked to and just shuts her ears. The letter basically stated that we loved her, that we had been telling her for some time that us paying her rent was unsustainable, that us paying her rent had left us feeling like we needed to control her life which was not fair to her, that we would be more than happy to help in a true emergency but we would no longer be paying any daily living expenses like rent. She seemed to take the letter well.
This past Sunday my oldest daughter was over and she told me that her sister had once again threatened suicide while drunk. She now had roommates who dealt with it that is why I did not find out about it immediately. Also that she was not working, drinking all night, and sleeping all day leaving the roommates to care for my grandson. My grandson was not attending his Head Start program for his autism. He still does not speak, is not potty trained and will be 5 in May so he clearly does not need to be missing any of these classes. So I called my daughter later that day and tried to talk to her about her alcoholism/abuse. She denied having any problem and pawned it all off once again on just mixing the wrong alcohols. Then tried to say maybe she just needed mental health help. I figured that was a start so I told her I would find a clinic and take her the next day, she agreed. On Monday I did my best to find a clinic but the only urgent care ones in our area are for people who are in an immediate crisis and my daughter refuses to say she is in an immediate crisis. So I emailed her a long list of places that would take people for free, or sliding scale fees but an appointment has to be made. I talked to her on the phone and told her this. I also told her that my partner and I would pay her rent for as long as she was in treatment if she would go into a drug and alcohol treatment center, there are several in our area that take women with their children. She refused saying she had no problem with alcohol. At this point I had decided if she did not do something to get herself help then I would call social services as my grandson can no help himself and I have let the situation go on for far too long.
On Wednesday my daughter called and said, "I will do it." I asked her what she meant and she said she would do treatment. I thought there was a light at the end of the tunnel. I did not realize it was just another train. I spent half the day trying to get her into a treatment center. While I waiting on some calls back my partner asked me if I thought that maybe this was just a ploy to get us to pay her rent as we had been told by my other daughter that she did not have the rent which is due on the 1st. So I called my daughter back and asked her if she thought she had an alcohol problem and if she was going to tell them she had one. She plainly stated "no." I explained that you can't get into a treatment program if you deny having a problem or lie about how much you actually drink as they need the spaces for people who actually want help. So then she got angry and decided she would not go. I asked her if she had made the mental health appointment yet and she claimed she knew nothing about that. So I told her check her email, texts and phone records and she could see we discussed it on Monday. She claimed she would make the appointment. I do not believe her plus I know that as long as she is drinking the way she drinks no amount of mental health help is going to do any good. So I set a deadline for myself. I told myself that if she did not contact me to let me know she had lifted a finger to help herself by making the mental health appointment by today that I was going to make a call to child protective services later this afternoon.
Does anyone have any experiences similar to this and if so do you have anything you can share. I am very worried that I might be doing the wrong thing. I know that stopping the money has stopped some of the enabling we were doing but it also is frightening because of my grandson. Calling child protective services is also frightening as it very well will alienate my daughter and she may cut me out of both of their lives completely. As a recovering alcoholic I know that you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink until it is ready but I so want to make her stop the destruction of her and my grandsons lives and stop drinking. I just don't know what to do and I am afraid anything I do is going to make things worse.
Thank you if you got through my novel sorry it was so long.
For several years now I have been trying to help my daughter get on her feet just as I did her sister (who was successful and is now independent). Initially this help was just to bring her and her 9 m/o son at the time here from another state and let them stay with us to remove them from an abusive environment. She lived with my partner and I for nearly a year and a half. She had just finished vet tech school when she got here and we tried to find her work in that field. She could not seem to hold a job and went through 3 while living with us.
2 and a half years ago my partners mother bought us a house near her so it would be more convenient to help her since we were up until then driving across town to help her when she needed it. She is in her mid 80's and is needing more and more help each year. When we left our home we let both of my daughters stay there under the condition that they pay us rent which would pay the mortgage. During this time my daughter decided she did not want to be a vet tech and took up construction work. It only took about a year for my younger daughter, the alcoholic, to decide that she did not want to live with her sister because she did not want any responsibility when it came to cleaning up after herself or her son nor did she want the responsibility for his care whenever someone else was around. This was the same thing she had done while living with us but we fought her the whole time about it. So she found an apartment for herself and her son. When we cleaned up the basement of the home which is where she had been living we found it to be a pig sty. We made 2 trailer full runs to the dump of just trash, dirty diapers, old food, etc... We gathered up 5 large trash bags of beer and alcohol bottles. We had to clean the carpets because they were so disgusting from the filth that had been on them. We found maggots growing in the trash left on the floor. To no exaggeration it was filthy and disgusting. My other daughter was relieved when she left as she finally told us about the drunken stupors my daughter had been having on a fairly regular basis and at that time she wanted me to call social services.
We talked to my daughter about the mess and she claimed it was just because she did not like living there and things would be different in her apt. In the year and a half living there we have been inside her apartment 4 times. She normally meets us outside or blocks the doorway so we can not come in. Two of those time it was fairly messy; dirty dishes in the sink, empty potato chip bags laying around on the floor, trash bags sitting just outside the back door, etc... but not as filthy as she had left the basement. Once when I asked her about not letting us in she told me she was embarrassed because it was messy so we showed up later that day with cleaning supplies and told her we were coming in to clean. She got angry with us and would not let us in. She told us we further embarrassed her by doing that. There were times when I would call during the day and it sounded like she was hung over but most of the time we communicate by text so a lot of her drinking has slipped by me. Her work has become more and more sporadic over the past year and a half and she has not worked at all in 6 months.
We have always helped both of my daughters out by paying their car insurance in full when it is due then letting them pay us back that way saving them money that they would have had to pay the insurance company had the money been paid to them in payments. We have always helped them when they have had emergencies like a transmission went out on a car and then let them pay us back that money in payments as we know it is hard to get by in this economy. Our intent though has been that our help be for emergencies not daily living costs. Unfortunately over the past 6 months that has not been the case with my daughter.
She started out asking for food money. For a while we would give her $40 here and there to help out but then as it grew to be a regular thing we decided that if she needed help with food she needed to apply for food stamps or go to a food bank as that is a daily living expense not an emergency. So we talked to her about food stamps, her response was she made too much money. I had trouble believing it since she was living off unemployment but I did not argue instead we told her we would take her to a food bank. We took her to a pantry style food bank where she could walk in and shop just like at a grocery store. She has not been back since but also had not asked us for food.
During the past 8 months she has needed more and more help paying her rent until the past 5 months we have just made the payment in full for her rather than see my autistic grandson homeless on the street. I can not live with my daughter so we will not take her in. I can not live like she does as I like my house clean. She takes over and her things are everywhere, no space is not touched by her mess. I also fight with PTSD and the constant motion and noise, which raises my anxiety, is detrimental to my recovery (that is what my doctors have said). Her sister will not let her live with her again as they parted on bad terms and because of the filth she chooses to live in.
In December we took a trip to visit my partners parents in Arizona. At 4 am one morning we got a call from my oldest daughter because she did not know what to do. My daughter had called her drunk and threatening suicide. While my partner was on the phone with my oldest daughter I tried contacting my other daughter who would not answer her phone. She finally replied to a text when I threatened to send the police to her home if she did not respond. In the meantime my other daughter got to her sisters apt. I gave her suicide hotline numbers and she promised to call them. The next day she decided that it was all because she had drank something she should not have and she did not need help.
For the past year now my oldest daughter has been telling me about her sisters drinking and how out of hand it is, they have mutual friends. I have been suspecting that her not working has more to do with her drinking than there not being work available as construction is way up where we live. Because of the drinking and her not wanting to get help for either mental health issues of the alcohol my partner and I decided it was time to start pulling back the help especially since the help was only intended to be for emergencies to begin with no daily living costs. So I wrote her a letter, she will not listen when talked to and just shuts her ears. The letter basically stated that we loved her, that we had been telling her for some time that us paying her rent was unsustainable, that us paying her rent had left us feeling like we needed to control her life which was not fair to her, that we would be more than happy to help in a true emergency but we would no longer be paying any daily living expenses like rent. She seemed to take the letter well.
This past Sunday my oldest daughter was over and she told me that her sister had once again threatened suicide while drunk. She now had roommates who dealt with it that is why I did not find out about it immediately. Also that she was not working, drinking all night, and sleeping all day leaving the roommates to care for my grandson. My grandson was not attending his Head Start program for his autism. He still does not speak, is not potty trained and will be 5 in May so he clearly does not need to be missing any of these classes. So I called my daughter later that day and tried to talk to her about her alcoholism/abuse. She denied having any problem and pawned it all off once again on just mixing the wrong alcohols. Then tried to say maybe she just needed mental health help. I figured that was a start so I told her I would find a clinic and take her the next day, she agreed. On Monday I did my best to find a clinic but the only urgent care ones in our area are for people who are in an immediate crisis and my daughter refuses to say she is in an immediate crisis. So I emailed her a long list of places that would take people for free, or sliding scale fees but an appointment has to be made. I talked to her on the phone and told her this. I also told her that my partner and I would pay her rent for as long as she was in treatment if she would go into a drug and alcohol treatment center, there are several in our area that take women with their children. She refused saying she had no problem with alcohol. At this point I had decided if she did not do something to get herself help then I would call social services as my grandson can no help himself and I have let the situation go on for far too long.
On Wednesday my daughter called and said, "I will do it." I asked her what she meant and she said she would do treatment. I thought there was a light at the end of the tunnel. I did not realize it was just another train. I spent half the day trying to get her into a treatment center. While I waiting on some calls back my partner asked me if I thought that maybe this was just a ploy to get us to pay her rent as we had been told by my other daughter that she did not have the rent which is due on the 1st. So I called my daughter back and asked her if she thought she had an alcohol problem and if she was going to tell them she had one. She plainly stated "no." I explained that you can't get into a treatment program if you deny having a problem or lie about how much you actually drink as they need the spaces for people who actually want help. So then she got angry and decided she would not go. I asked her if she had made the mental health appointment yet and she claimed she knew nothing about that. So I told her check her email, texts and phone records and she could see we discussed it on Monday. She claimed she would make the appointment. I do not believe her plus I know that as long as she is drinking the way she drinks no amount of mental health help is going to do any good. So I set a deadline for myself. I told myself that if she did not contact me to let me know she had lifted a finger to help herself by making the mental health appointment by today that I was going to make a call to child protective services later this afternoon.
Does anyone have any experiences similar to this and if so do you have anything you can share. I am very worried that I might be doing the wrong thing. I know that stopping the money has stopped some of the enabling we were doing but it also is frightening because of my grandson. Calling child protective services is also frightening as it very well will alienate my daughter and she may cut me out of both of their lives completely. As a recovering alcoholic I know that you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink until it is ready but I so want to make her stop the destruction of her and my grandsons lives and stop drinking. I just don't know what to do and I am afraid anything I do is going to make things worse.
Thank you if you got through my novel sorry it was so long.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Yucky situation when innocent child is in the mix. Particularly one who is autistic and needs an IEP and daily structure and routine. Can you call CPS anonymously? Would A daughter/mom legally allow another family member to take custody of this child?
I will pray for your family and hope a solution in grandchild's best interest presents itself.
I will pray for your family and hope a solution in grandchild's best interest presents itself.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Around and About
Posts: 1,254
You have chronicled the whole thing so completely it would seem the ONLY logical move forward is to get the child out of there. Your relationship with the daughter may be compromised, but get that kid to a safe place where he can get the help HE needs.
I have much sympathy, but you have tried everything with your daughter; now it is time for damage control.
I have much sympathy, but you have tried everything with your daughter; now it is time for damage control.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
Tough love time. I am a teacher who works with children with some extremely challenging behaviour. I see the damage that poor parenting can have, especially when caused by addiction and mental health issues. Your grandson is in real danger. He is living in unsanitary conditions, almost certainly suffering from neglect and is seriously behind in his development.
If I was made aware of a child living in those conditions and I did not report it, I could be sacked for gross professional misconduct. Neglect is child abuse and having allowed it to go on this long, you cannot allow it to continue! Your daughter is an adult and can choose to ignore you if you report her, but your grandson is a very vulnerable child with no choice. He needs someone to speak up for him. So much damage has already been done to him, please do not allow him to grow up in this situation.
I say this with love, but real fear for that little boy.
If I was made aware of a child living in those conditions and I did not report it, I could be sacked for gross professional misconduct. Neglect is child abuse and having allowed it to go on this long, you cannot allow it to continue! Your daughter is an adult and can choose to ignore you if you report her, but your grandson is a very vulnerable child with no choice. He needs someone to speak up for him. So much damage has already been done to him, please do not allow him to grow up in this situation.
I say this with love, but real fear for that little boy.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
Child protective services will maintain your confidentiality. Your daughter may be able to narrow it down to certain family members based on the information in the complaint; however, cps will not disclose the name of the informant.
Not waving, but drowning
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 423
As an outsider my overwhelming impression is this:
1) Your daughter doesn't want to get better or want mental health/alcoholism help at this time
2) Your grandson is in danger because she is not taking care of him.
To worry about alienating your daughter seems misplaced here. The child is at serious risk. How you get him out of that house matters less than that he is in a loving environment that can deal with his special needs.
Please contact child protective services. Don't waste time waiting for your daughter to make good on ANY promises. Please. Even when/if she decides to pursue recovery, she may not be able to be a full-time parent to an autistic child at the same time.
Sorry if that sounds harsh. I know when you are close to a situation it looks different--and I only know what you've posted here.
1) Your daughter doesn't want to get better or want mental health/alcoholism help at this time
2) Your grandson is in danger because she is not taking care of him.
To worry about alienating your daughter seems misplaced here. The child is at serious risk. How you get him out of that house matters less than that he is in a loving environment that can deal with his special needs.
Please contact child protective services. Don't waste time waiting for your daughter to make good on ANY promises. Please. Even when/if she decides to pursue recovery, she may not be able to be a full-time parent to an autistic child at the same time.
Sorry if that sounds harsh. I know when you are close to a situation it looks different--and I only know what you've posted here.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Yes, I have a dear friend going through this exact same thing for TEN years with his AH. The sad thing is... he's in his 70's. Although she's been in "rehab" at least 15 or more times over the past ten years... but it's the same old broken record -- she detoxes after about 5 days, says "she's fine", she goes home, and the drinking starts again. She WILL NOT FACE HER CONSEQUENCES. He has filed for divorce and since doing that, she has pulled out all the stops with her drinking. At this point in time, she is laying on her filthy bedroom floor wrapped in a blanket while soiling herself. Perhaps if your daughter started realizing there are consequences, nothing will change for her, either (you pay her rent and give her $ here and there to buy her booze? Why WOULD she want to stop that lifestyle and be responsible and actually WORK?) The $ needs to stop. And the child needs to go into protective custody. She may become homeless, yes. But it is HER choice and you cannot "fix" her. Sorry to be so blunt.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Nandm,
as a mom I can understand you wanting to help your daughter, but she can help herself if she wants to. Your little grandson, however, cannot help his self. and he is truly being horribly neglected. He needs help immediately if he is to have any sort of quality of life. I agree that his life is in immediate danger. call CPS. My heart breaks for him.
do it for him.
as a mom I can understand you wanting to help your daughter, but she can help herself if she wants to. Your little grandson, however, cannot help his self. and he is truly being horribly neglected. He needs help immediately if he is to have any sort of quality of life. I agree that his life is in immediate danger. call CPS. My heart breaks for him.
do it for him.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I am going to call CPS today. This has been a difficult choice as I do not want to cause more pain in my daughters life but I also know that my grandson deserves better. The guilt I still carry from raising my children in an alcoholic home, knowing I caused them pain, has been part of why I have not acted sooner as I hoped she would see there is a solution to alcoholism and choose to change her life since I have maintained my sobriety but obviously she is in too deep of denial. I do appreciate your help.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I am glad you are calling. You did not cause this, you cannot control this, and you cannot cure this. If something happened to your grandson and you had not called, can you imagine that sort of guilt?
An addict needs consequences to recover. If you take away the consequences you take away the chances they have or would have had at the recovery.
Your grandson does not deserve to live like that. Someone has to be his advocate, and that someone is you.
God Bless.
An addict needs consequences to recover. If you take away the consequences you take away the chances they have or would have had at the recovery.
Your grandson does not deserve to live like that. Someone has to be his advocate, and that someone is you.
God Bless.
Originally Posted by nandm 
Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I am going to call CPS today. This has been a difficult choice as I do not want to cause more pain in my daughters life but I also know that my grandson deserves better. The guilt I still carry from raising my children in an alcoholic home, knowing I caused them pain, has been part of why I have not acted sooner as I hoped she would see there is a solution to alcoholism and choose to change her life since I have maintained my sobriety but obviously she is in too deep of denial. I do appreciate your help.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Around and About
Posts: 1,254
An addict needs consequences to recover. If you take away the consequences you take away the chances they have or would have had at the recovery.
nandm, I am so glad you are taking action for your grandson.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 199
I'm a teacher and I have a recovering alcoholic son who is 22 years old. I know how difficult it is to call CPS (I've had to call them on parents before) but it IS the right thing to do for your grandson. You are his advocate now because his mother is obviously incapable of fulfilling that role in his life. As for your daughter, I know exactly what you're going through with the filth, sleeping all day, and staying up all night, etc. My son was doing the same thing and living the very same way. He finally hit his bottom and went to the hospital for help. The called us. He sat with us and told us he wanted help and he'd do ANYTHING to get better. He was ready. He admitted he had a problem. Not only with alcohol but also with depression and anxiety. He did exactly what he needed to do to get healthy mentally and sober. But he had to hit his bottom first. I know how hard this is as a parent, and I know the pain you're feeling. Your daughter has to hit her bottom and admit she has a problem. Sometimes that comes as a result of consequences brought on by the alcoholism. Sometimes not. I hope and pray that maybe CPS getting involved in the situation will make her see that she needs to get help and get sober. Hang in their. You're not alone.
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