Why do I doubt?
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 66
Why do I doubt?
I have a lot of proof. It's just not often. One incident of falling down drunk and passing out in the front yard, hidden bottles, slight slurring that he said was from being tired as well as the "deep" passed out sleep, past history of drinking then going to hiding it when I kept talking about it, bloodshot eyes and slight personality change that I can easily detect but not the kids. Most recently I found out from my 11yo daughter (who is taking a 6 week class on addiction), that when I was working part-time he had 'mood swings'. He would be fine and happy then go into the bedroom and when he did come out he was irritable, grumpy and angry. She also told me that on more than a few occasions he would yell at all of them about the house being a mess and that they needed to help me by cleaning it up.
Now some of this could be just the way he is. He's not an angry person, but when he does get angry he gets really angry. Fortunately that doesn't happen often. I thought it was only a couple times a year, but apparently it was more often when I was working.
My problem is that sometimes I doubt there is a problem. Those who know say he's the last person they would expect to have a problem with alcohol. When he is around and not drinking I think that I'm overreacting. I know about "high functioning" alcoholics and that it is a progressive illness. I have read so many stories here about spouses that have been lost to alcohol. The awesome, wonderful, caring spouse that disappears when the alcohol takes over. I can't imagine that, can't wrap my mind around it.
Maybe he just has a small problem, but not an addiction. How do I accept that it's stronger than that. I think I accept it but then I doubt. We had a serious conversation a while ago and he didn't admit or deny anything. However, all the stashes disappeared. I've only noticed a couple times he has been drinking. Is he able to slow down or stop? Could I be wrong about him having a problem? That it's not that bad? Am I kidding myself? I go back and read some of my older posts for a reality check. But then convince myself I am overreacting. That I'm too emotional and he's too good to have this kind of a problem.
Now some of this could be just the way he is. He's not an angry person, but when he does get angry he gets really angry. Fortunately that doesn't happen often. I thought it was only a couple times a year, but apparently it was more often when I was working.
My problem is that sometimes I doubt there is a problem. Those who know say he's the last person they would expect to have a problem with alcohol. When he is around and not drinking I think that I'm overreacting. I know about "high functioning" alcoholics and that it is a progressive illness. I have read so many stories here about spouses that have been lost to alcohol. The awesome, wonderful, caring spouse that disappears when the alcohol takes over. I can't imagine that, can't wrap my mind around it.
Maybe he just has a small problem, but not an addiction. How do I accept that it's stronger than that. I think I accept it but then I doubt. We had a serious conversation a while ago and he didn't admit or deny anything. However, all the stashes disappeared. I've only noticed a couple times he has been drinking. Is he able to slow down or stop? Could I be wrong about him having a problem? That it's not that bad? Am I kidding myself? I go back and read some of my older posts for a reality check. But then convince myself I am overreacting. That I'm too emotional and he's too good to have this kind of a problem.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I can tell you my husband rarely drinks. However, it is an issue. That rarely is too much for me to handle because of the what if's. I can tell you that almost anytime my husband has his mood swings that sound just like this, he was either drinking or had been recently and was not white knuckling trying not to. I have made it VERY crystal clear that we are not living that way.
It boils down to the same thing, the behavior. If he is drinking or a "dry drunk", he is exhibiting behavior towards your children that is causing them to be upset and confused. It builds an amazing amount of resentment, I am learning this with my 14 year old now. It is not just the drinking, but the entire behavior surrounding someone with an addictive type personality.
I don't know the answers, I just wanted to share with you my experience. I will say that I think his own behavior even alarmed him and he could see he was damaging his relationship with his own children, and he has been making a big effort with them. Will it be enough? I don't know. I have told them and mean it, that I will not tolerate that behavior for any of us and that I will be there for them always.
FYI...it is almost always the last person you would expect. My husband works in the social service sector. He does not appear to have a problem unless you now him very well. I just found out yesterday a couple I know just divorced, he was the local crime reporter and his xwife a doctor. He is now in jail for meth. You just never know who it is going to be. I had a hard time believing something my husband did even when I saw it before my own eyes bc it was so out of character for him.
It sounds like you are a great mom and putting your children first, that is important. Good for you. And good for you to educate them on addiction.
We are here for you. God Bless!
It boils down to the same thing, the behavior. If he is drinking or a "dry drunk", he is exhibiting behavior towards your children that is causing them to be upset and confused. It builds an amazing amount of resentment, I am learning this with my 14 year old now. It is not just the drinking, but the entire behavior surrounding someone with an addictive type personality.
I don't know the answers, I just wanted to share with you my experience. I will say that I think his own behavior even alarmed him and he could see he was damaging his relationship with his own children, and he has been making a big effort with them. Will it be enough? I don't know. I have told them and mean it, that I will not tolerate that behavior for any of us and that I will be there for them always.
FYI...it is almost always the last person you would expect. My husband works in the social service sector. He does not appear to have a problem unless you now him very well. I just found out yesterday a couple I know just divorced, he was the local crime reporter and his xwife a doctor. He is now in jail for meth. You just never know who it is going to be. I had a hard time believing something my husband did even when I saw it before my own eyes bc it was so out of character for him.
It sounds like you are a great mom and putting your children first, that is important. Good for you. And good for you to educate them on addiction.
We are here for you. God Bless!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 129
A problem IS a problem- no "big" or "small" about it. And in my opinion, there is no such thing as a problem, but not an addiction... the problem IS the addiction. I have witnessed years of 'subacute' or high-functioning alcoholism in my AW, and I can tell you that it invariably will get worse, and more frequent. Don't doubt your gut here. He may be a great guy (just as my wife is a wonderful woman), but the drink takes down the best of them!
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
I'm sorry, Giligji. It is difficult. I will be honest that I've asked these same questions dozens and dozens of times. I even just last week told a friend at al-anon that I wasn't sure whether my STBXAH is an alcoholic or just abuses alcohol. She just nodded and smiled and reminded me that it just matters how the kids and I are affected, not whether it's really an addiction.
My AH has quit multiple times. He also will cut back and 'be on his best behavior' for a short period of time. But, he always back slides. Those 'couple of times/year' anger issues you're referring to? It was the same in my house. Problem is those few times per year are much more damaging than we realize and are more frequent than what we witness and they do eventually escalate (our whole last year was hell for everyone in our house.)
And yet, despite everything our family went through, despite my teen son moving out of my house, I still keep questioning whether STBXAH is an alcoholic and whether I'm overreacting. Why do I do this? Several reasons. For one thing, it's easier to stay in denial than to move forward. Yes, it's painful in denial but I know what to expect! And, I don't have to work on me, I can pretend that I'm 'ok' when I know that I'm not. I can blame everything on him and his issues
Also, I do love him and letting him go was the most difficult thing I've ever done. The last reason for me? Fear. Fear of a future without him. Fear of a future alone. Fear of a future that seems so foreign and different than what I'd imagined. Those are my reasons. Now, I'm just really focusing on working through those feelings because I want to be a healthier, happier me.
Hugs, giliji. It's hard, I know. Just keep focusing on you
If there's one thing I've learned, it's that we can't rush the process. We just have to take it one day, one step at a time.
My AH has quit multiple times. He also will cut back and 'be on his best behavior' for a short period of time. But, he always back slides. Those 'couple of times/year' anger issues you're referring to? It was the same in my house. Problem is those few times per year are much more damaging than we realize and are more frequent than what we witness and they do eventually escalate (our whole last year was hell for everyone in our house.)
And yet, despite everything our family went through, despite my teen son moving out of my house, I still keep questioning whether STBXAH is an alcoholic and whether I'm overreacting. Why do I do this? Several reasons. For one thing, it's easier to stay in denial than to move forward. Yes, it's painful in denial but I know what to expect! And, I don't have to work on me, I can pretend that I'm 'ok' when I know that I'm not. I can blame everything on him and his issues
Also, I do love him and letting him go was the most difficult thing I've ever done. The last reason for me? Fear. Fear of a future without him. Fear of a future alone. Fear of a future that seems so foreign and different than what I'd imagined. Those are my reasons. Now, I'm just really focusing on working through those feelings because I want to be a healthier, happier me.Hugs, giliji. It's hard, I know. Just keep focusing on you
If there's one thing I've learned, it's that we can't rush the process. We just have to take it one day, one step at a time.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
Yeah, it gets worse. I went back and read some of my first posts here at SR..wow! I sounded a lot like you in many ways back then. You know what happened? It got worse.
Stick with your gut instincts. You found your way here because of your gut instincts..listen to them. You won't fail you if you trust that inner you. I kept trying to deny what my gut was telling me for years. You know what it got me? One big headache!
Stick with your gut instincts. You found your way here because of your gut instincts..listen to them. You won't fail you if you trust that inner you. I kept trying to deny what my gut was telling me for years. You know what it got me? One big headache!
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 339
One thing that helped me was learning about addiction. Alcoholism is SO much more than just drinking. Its known as a family disease and part of it is denial. Denial not just by the drinker but denial by those close to the drinker also.
I denied my husband's alcoholism for years and justified all the behavior I was seeing. Why? Because who wants to be married to an alcoholic. At the time I thought things weren't that bad and I wanted my life to continue just as it was. He had a good high profile job, wife, big house, fancy cars, friends, kids. I didn't think alcoholism fit into that picture. I was very, very wrong.
I think its normal to doubt. I also think you will accept it and see the situation clearly when you are ready. I do know that if your husband has an addiction "cutting back" will only last for so long. In our case it lasted for years but once he spiraled down it felt like hell was rushing in on all sides.
I've heard others talk about the 3 A's of awareness, acceptance and action. Sounds like you are aware that a problem exists. Acceptance is hard because next comes action.
The book Getting Them Sober Volume 1 has been recommended in various threads and I found it informative. I can't remember if you have tried Al Anon. It helped me to know there were others in my situation.
I denied my husband's alcoholism for years and justified all the behavior I was seeing. Why? Because who wants to be married to an alcoholic. At the time I thought things weren't that bad and I wanted my life to continue just as it was. He had a good high profile job, wife, big house, fancy cars, friends, kids. I didn't think alcoholism fit into that picture. I was very, very wrong.
I think its normal to doubt. I also think you will accept it and see the situation clearly when you are ready. I do know that if your husband has an addiction "cutting back" will only last for so long. In our case it lasted for years but once he spiraled down it felt like hell was rushing in on all sides.
I've heard others talk about the 3 A's of awareness, acceptance and action. Sounds like you are aware that a problem exists. Acceptance is hard because next comes action.
The book Getting Them Sober Volume 1 has been recommended in various threads and I found it informative. I can't remember if you have tried Al Anon. It helped me to know there were others in my situation.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: somewhere south
Posts: 510
When I first came here I sounded exactly like you! I doubted myself over and over and still do on occasion to a small extent. The subtle changes you describe (blood shot eyes, slightly slower responses etc.) happened maybe 3-4 times a year and no one but me ever really noticed. I came here because it just kept happening....something just wasn't right but I couldnt really put my finger on it because he didnt fit the "typical drunk" profile. I do believe it is harder for the families of "closet drinkers" as opposed to the "violent aggressive drinkers" to really accept something is wrong. Our A's do a fantastic job of hiding and pretending everything is normal. I was ok with the in-between time when he appeared happy, healthy, normal but something was always just off. I educated myself here, joined alanon, read about alcoholism and now 2 years later, I can say it is definitely worse. The "episodes" became more frequent. The more I opened up about it with other people, the more others now notice it in him too. LOL its not just all in my head. The bottles became more hidden but still there to be found. The truth just has a way of working itself out in the open. My suspicions are definitely confirmed now. My gut is right! Now we are in a few times a week pattern instead of 3-4 times a year. Even my DD age 8 sees his behavior change and asks me about it. The "mood swings" are more often too. My AH is the same, hes not angry or abusive but "grumpy" and snapping at the kids more. The Alanon saying "More Shall be Revealed" held true in my case. I spent the last few years just educating and watching and yes, my gut was correct. He IS an alcoholic and there IS a problem. It's not all in my head and I am not making a big deal out of nothing. I am moving forward with divorce because I cant live with it anymore. It's not normal and I do have an obligation to protect my children. My A even to this day, can reign it in and appear perfect for a while but again and again it will fall apart.
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: The Pit of Despair
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This is how my life started out three plus years ago. I doubted, too. Oh how I wish I had listened to my gut then, instead of continuing on and going through everything I have gone through since the beginning when I just worried a bit about it. How I wish I had those years back, without the heartache and pain and turmoil and damage it has done to me and my children.
Read, read, read as much as you can on this site. You have this grand opportunity, right at this moment, to make this choice in your path. Its like a fork in the road. Someone just spoke about awareness, etc. It really is that. I don't think it so much matters if he is this or that, it matters if what he is doing/how he is living is acceptable to you. Is that the life, the husband you want to have? Alcoholism escalates. It progresses. The behaviors you are seeing now could possibly, or should I say will likely get worse. What it is today is likely the happy part. That might sound crappy or defeatist or depressing but I basically just lived what you are living and would have preferred someone to say HEYYYYYYYYYY GET OUT NOW. I can tell you that going through what I have gone through, being involved....engaged to an alcoholic...and I am not certain whether it is only alcoholism or some mental illness, and I am not certain whether he is abusive AND an alcoholic or just the alcoholism brings that out...but what I have gone through has hurt me deeply, torn me up, shredded me, damaged me to the core so badly, I will NEVER be the same as I was, back when I was so naive and it was so new. What I AM certain of is that I could no longer live with the behavior, I could no longer tolerate and accept it as part of my life, I just couldn't take it anymore. The only thing I was certain of was that the kids and I deserved a different life than that, a better one, than what he was putting us through. I only wish I had understood these things then, that I know now. I would have just walked the **** away from him when he did some of the things you said yours did. I would have just said, nope, no thanks, I love you but hell no, you are NOT the one for me. I know it might not be so easy for you, you are married, have kids, etc. but I bet it will be easier to walk NOW, than after it gets worse. And honey, I hate to say it but I can almost guarantee it will get worse.
HUGS.
Read, read, read as much as you can on this site. You have this grand opportunity, right at this moment, to make this choice in your path. Its like a fork in the road. Someone just spoke about awareness, etc. It really is that. I don't think it so much matters if he is this or that, it matters if what he is doing/how he is living is acceptable to you. Is that the life, the husband you want to have? Alcoholism escalates. It progresses. The behaviors you are seeing now could possibly, or should I say will likely get worse. What it is today is likely the happy part. That might sound crappy or defeatist or depressing but I basically just lived what you are living and would have preferred someone to say HEYYYYYYYYYY GET OUT NOW. I can tell you that going through what I have gone through, being involved....engaged to an alcoholic...and I am not certain whether it is only alcoholism or some mental illness, and I am not certain whether he is abusive AND an alcoholic or just the alcoholism brings that out...but what I have gone through has hurt me deeply, torn me up, shredded me, damaged me to the core so badly, I will NEVER be the same as I was, back when I was so naive and it was so new. What I AM certain of is that I could no longer live with the behavior, I could no longer tolerate and accept it as part of my life, I just couldn't take it anymore. The only thing I was certain of was that the kids and I deserved a different life than that, a better one, than what he was putting us through. I only wish I had understood these things then, that I know now. I would have just walked the **** away from him when he did some of the things you said yours did. I would have just said, nope, no thanks, I love you but hell no, you are NOT the one for me. I know it might not be so easy for you, you are married, have kids, etc. but I bet it will be easier to walk NOW, than after it gets worse. And honey, I hate to say it but I can almost guarantee it will get worse.
HUGS.
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My problem is that sometimes I doubt there is a problem
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 66
Thank you all SO much!!! I'm sorry I haven't been able to follow up with each post. With my daughters surgery tomorrow I have been extra busy with her household and son.
I really, really, really appreciate all you have said even though most of it isn't what I wanted to hear. As painful as it is, I only want the truth. Granted there's a part of me that just wants to bury my head in the sand and pretend all is fine. But it's not just me. I still have 4 kids at home and they come first. I am very afraid. I don't like the unexpected. I'm afraid of being without him if he doesn't get help. This is not how we imagined our life. We've had such a good marriage overall.
I haven't seen as much of the bad behavior over the last several months, maybe longer. But his main trigger seems to be a messy house with the kids not helping. I can't recall him ever getting on me for the house being a mess, just the kids. We have all been better and the house is cleaner on a more regular basis. I am afraid that if I/we slack off he will get mad. I can't believe I said that out loud.
I just spoke with the girls (11, 13) and they both said daddy hasn't been mad and yelling for a long time. And yes it did scare them when it happened. I told them both to tell me if he yells, hurts or scares them in any way. You can bet this momma bear will take action. They will tell me. Their brothers on the other hand are more difficult. They are 15 and 19. The 15 yr old was always daddy's shadow and really looks up to him. When I talked to him he didn't want to accept that there was any kind of problem. When he finds out I'm going to a meeting he gets upset and doesn't talk to me. The 19 yr old readily accepts there is a problem. He has found hidden bottles. The boys are much harder to try and help.
I struggle with what to do. Right now things are ok. I am on alert for any misbehavior. Right now he's being good, but it from I'm reading heard is sounds like it won't last. Once I get past my adult daughter's surgery and recovery I will be going back to my therapist. I'm also going to start going to a therapist that specializes in addiction. This is so hard and painful.
I really, really, really appreciate all you have said even though most of it isn't what I wanted to hear. As painful as it is, I only want the truth. Granted there's a part of me that just wants to bury my head in the sand and pretend all is fine. But it's not just me. I still have 4 kids at home and they come first. I am very afraid. I don't like the unexpected. I'm afraid of being without him if he doesn't get help. This is not how we imagined our life. We've had such a good marriage overall.
I haven't seen as much of the bad behavior over the last several months, maybe longer. But his main trigger seems to be a messy house with the kids not helping. I can't recall him ever getting on me for the house being a mess, just the kids. We have all been better and the house is cleaner on a more regular basis. I am afraid that if I/we slack off he will get mad. I can't believe I said that out loud.
I just spoke with the girls (11, 13) and they both said daddy hasn't been mad and yelling for a long time. And yes it did scare them when it happened. I told them both to tell me if he yells, hurts or scares them in any way. You can bet this momma bear will take action. They will tell me. Their brothers on the other hand are more difficult. They are 15 and 19. The 15 yr old was always daddy's shadow and really looks up to him. When I talked to him he didn't want to accept that there was any kind of problem. When he finds out I'm going to a meeting he gets upset and doesn't talk to me. The 19 yr old readily accepts there is a problem. He has found hidden bottles. The boys are much harder to try and help.
I struggle with what to do. Right now things are ok. I am on alert for any misbehavior. Right now he's being good, but it from I'm reading heard is sounds like it won't last. Once I get past my adult daughter's surgery and recovery I will be going back to my therapist. I'm also going to start going to a therapist that specializes in addiction. This is so hard and painful.
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Join Date: May 2010
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Younger children are much more able to just look at actions are react. Older kids have learned to stuff emoations, avoid emoations and become codependent, so it's harder. I think you are doing all the right things as far as the therapy and meetings, etc.
Tight Hugs. Hope her surgery goes well!
Tight Hugs. Hope her surgery goes well!
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