Make the decision, then clean up the mess
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Make the decision, then clean up the mess
Forgive me while I do some philosophizing here. I'm reading a book right now called "Women in My Office" by Charles Herrick.
He is (was?) an IBM executive supervising a lot of women, many of whom felt comfortable sharing struggles from their personal life with him and ask for his advice. The book is a gathering of their stories, and the advice he gave them.
One thing he talks about is how he sees over and over again how managers in professional settings as well as people in their personal lives make decisions not based on what is the right thing to do but based on trying to avoid ugly and complicated consequences. So he tells a woman about how he initiated a reorganization and pretty much everyone in the organization hated his guts for it:
He talks about how we make repeated bad choices because we're afraid of the consequences of making the right choice:
I wanted to share this because it made a lightbulb go on in my head.
I spent so many years trying to solve the problem of how to make my AH stop drinking and become the person I wanted him to be because I was afraid of the consequences of leaving him.
I knew for the majority of our marriage that leaving him was the right thing to do. But I was afraid of the mess leaving would create. Everything from what people would say to how custody would pan out to how I would support myself to how he would react and whether he would become violent.
By not making the right decision and dealing with the mess, I exposed myself and my children to an even greater mess. I couldn't see that one coming, but I based the decision not on what was right but on what I feared could happen if I made the right decision.
I'm not saying "y'all should leave your alcoholics because it's the right decision." I'm saying we need to make sure we're basing our decisions on what is the right thing to do, not on the feared consequences. Make sure we're solving the right problem.
NOT making a decision is also making a decision. And it's one heckuvalot easier emotionally to deal with the mess that follow a decision we know is right (even if it hurts) than one that we've just let happen by default, by inaction, by choosing to not make a decision.
He is (was?) an IBM executive supervising a lot of women, many of whom felt comfortable sharing struggles from their personal life with him and ask for his advice. The book is a gathering of their stories, and the advice he gave them.
One thing he talks about is how he sees over and over again how managers in professional settings as well as people in their personal lives make decisions not based on what is the right thing to do but based on trying to avoid ugly and complicated consequences. So he tells a woman about how he initiated a reorganization and pretty much everyone in the organization hated his guts for it:
"Did it turn out to be the right decision?"
"Yes."
"But I admit I did have a mess for a while. However, that is just the way it is with big decisions. They are never without complications. It seems like someone always gets hurt or bent out of shape. But it could have gotten even worse. Don't you think I would have altered my decision if it got a lot messier than it already was?"
"Probably"
"Nope. I would only alter my decision if I thought it was wrong. Not because it hurt."
"Yes."
"But I admit I did have a mess for a while. However, that is just the way it is with big decisions. They are never without complications. It seems like someone always gets hurt or bent out of shape. But it could have gotten even worse. Don't you think I would have altered my decision if it got a lot messier than it already was?"
"Probably"
"Nope. I would only alter my decision if I thought it was wrong. Not because it hurt."
"...whenever i've had one of the executives who report to me come to my office with a really dumb decision, it's not because they are stupid or inexperienced or evil. It's because they are solving the wrong problem. They want to reorganize instead of dealing with a specific personnel issue. They want to launch an expensive program instead of just getting the sales people to do their jobs. The problem they are solving is avoiding the uncomfortable task of forcing the issue with their people. They often don't know which way to force it or they are dealing with people who report to them who are pretty tough and who can be pretty nasty.
I spent so many years trying to solve the problem of how to make my AH stop drinking and become the person I wanted him to be because I was afraid of the consequences of leaving him.
I knew for the majority of our marriage that leaving him was the right thing to do. But I was afraid of the mess leaving would create. Everything from what people would say to how custody would pan out to how I would support myself to how he would react and whether he would become violent.
By not making the right decision and dealing with the mess, I exposed myself and my children to an even greater mess. I couldn't see that one coming, but I based the decision not on what was right but on what I feared could happen if I made the right decision.
I'm not saying "y'all should leave your alcoholics because it's the right decision." I'm saying we need to make sure we're basing our decisions on what is the right thing to do, not on the feared consequences. Make sure we're solving the right problem.
NOT making a decision is also making a decision. And it's one heckuvalot easier emotionally to deal with the mess that follow a decision we know is right (even if it hurts) than one that we've just let happen by default, by inaction, by choosing to not make a decision.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Sigh making that decision and acting upon it knowing what we are doing will make people hurt keeps us in a bad marriage.
It was very painful to move out knowing what the aftermath would be. I stayed for a long time and I was miserable. I had to stop playing the martyr
It was very painful to move out knowing what the aftermath would be. I stayed for a long time and I was miserable. I had to stop playing the martyr
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Great thread lillamy!
I left my AW 3 years ago, I know the marriage is over, most of the mess is over but I still haven't gone forward with the divorce.
I think I have reached the point to just do it. I'm trying to avoid the to avoid ugly and complicated consequences. As soon as the taxes are filled I'm going to pull the trigger. I need to take this last step and get myself free. It's been long enough now, I'm comfortable in my recovery, it isn't out of anger or a need for revenge. I just need to close this chapter and move on, for me.
This post made that really obvious. Thanks again.
Your friend,
I left my AW 3 years ago, I know the marriage is over, most of the mess is over but I still haven't gone forward with the divorce.
I think I have reached the point to just do it. I'm trying to avoid the to avoid ugly and complicated consequences. As soon as the taxes are filled I'm going to pull the trigger. I need to take this last step and get myself free. It's been long enough now, I'm comfortable in my recovery, it isn't out of anger or a need for revenge. I just need to close this chapter and move on, for me.
This post made that really obvious. Thanks again.
Your friend,
Better when never is never
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I have been working through a book on self-defeating behaviors and it says something very similar. It basically say that self-defeating behaviors are based on false beliefs about the conclusions of our choice. When face with a choice we are blocked by fear from making the healthy choice, and we use a series of techniques to minimize the cost of making the unhealthy choice. Once it is fully in motion, a vicious self-defeating cycle is then set up that is difficult to break.
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What a great thread! Such a concise and enlightening explanation of one of the greatest truths in life.
I know I stayed in my marriage after I knew it was over because of fear. And I stayed in a job I hated for many years because I didn't want to be poor. In therapy, one of my biggest revelations was that the behaviors I developed to avoid discomfort actually ended up causing more pain that the discomfort I was avoiding would have.
And, I can honestly say that now that I am divorced and retired (poor
), I'm happier than I've ever been. But yes, it was messy getting here.
L
I know I stayed in my marriage after I knew it was over because of fear. And I stayed in a job I hated for many years because I didn't want to be poor. In therapy, one of my biggest revelations was that the behaviors I developed to avoid discomfort actually ended up causing more pain that the discomfort I was avoiding would have.
And, I can honestly say that now that I am divorced and retired (poor
), I'm happier than I've ever been. But yes, it was messy getting here. L
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Great post, lillamy. I see this same dynamic in my work life. We are great at creating programs and policies to work around a few key people! Lots of policies, lots of programs. Problem is they never work. Or, on the very rare occasion that the new policy appears to work, it ends up causing such discord with other employees that it creates new problems. We've given up on that approach and are now just waiting for the offending employees (executives in this case) to retire. Unfortunately, they seem hell bent on not retiring?
As far as with my A, I am absolutely guilty of this! Like lilamy, I've known most of our relationship that I needed to leave. Instead of bucking up and making the hard choices, I willingly put blinders on to avoid the consequences of leaving. The end result: My oldest son does not like his father, my youngest son is afraid of his father, and my daughter feels guilty and responsible for her father (same role I had/have with my A father & my STBXAH.) The consequences I was trying to avoid? Financial problems which are now worse than they would have been had I left sooner, Single parenting which will be even harder now that they are teens with so much baggage, and being alone which will be even worse because my teens have their own lives and will all be gone to college within 5 years and I am older. To recap: I have created more problems for myself by avoiding the inevitable.
The good news is I finally burned my blinders Day 5 with no AH and my house is quieter and more peaceful, and my kids spend more time outside of their rooms.
As far as with my A, I am absolutely guilty of this! Like lilamy, I've known most of our relationship that I needed to leave. Instead of bucking up and making the hard choices, I willingly put blinders on to avoid the consequences of leaving. The end result: My oldest son does not like his father, my youngest son is afraid of his father, and my daughter feels guilty and responsible for her father (same role I had/have with my A father & my STBXAH.) The consequences I was trying to avoid? Financial problems which are now worse than they would have been had I left sooner, Single parenting which will be even harder now that they are teens with so much baggage, and being alone which will be even worse because my teens have their own lives and will all be gone to college within 5 years and I am older. To recap: I have created more problems for myself by avoiding the inevitable.
The good news is I finally burned my blinders
Day 5 with no AH and my house is quieter and more peaceful, and my kids spend more time outside of their rooms.
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I really like the way this is worded in that we make decisions thinking that they're right because there is less hassle or less pain for us in that decision. Also, thank you for adding that not making a decision is also a decision. That's where I am right now but I keep thinking that I need to hurry up and decide to either turn left or turn right.
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Stung, your post reminded me of a story my dad told me about my grandparents. My grandfather would try to tell my grandmother how to drive. One time, in N.Y., he tried to tell her to "turn here" at an exit, but didn't say right or left. She stopped at the top of the exit lane and they proceeded to argue. By not deciding, they almost caused a much larger problem.
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Lillamy, just wanted you to know that this thread triggered some action on my part. I looked real hard at my reason for not going ahead with the divorce and it was simply fear. I don't know what I was afraid of but fear was the main problem.
So, Sunday I called my STBXAW and told her I'm going ahead with the divorce. I need to do this to complete my healing. Even though we live a thousand miles apart and have been separated for 3 years she had a complete meltdown. Going on about how she loved me and can't live without me and wouldn't I give us one more chance. I was very calm and simply told her there is no us and hasn't been for a while. About an hour later she called back, calmed down and said she wants to do this as friendly as possible. I gave her a choice of 2 good offers and also explained if she wants to make this hard I was willing to go that way also and would bring up her past in court and fight for every cent. She said she didn't want this and that's where we left it.
Make the decision then clean up the mess. Exactly what I needed to here at this time.
Your friend,
So, Sunday I called my STBXAW and told her I'm going ahead with the divorce. I need to do this to complete my healing. Even though we live a thousand miles apart and have been separated for 3 years she had a complete meltdown. Going on about how she loved me and can't live without me and wouldn't I give us one more chance. I was very calm and simply told her there is no us and hasn't been for a while. About an hour later she called back, calmed down and said she wants to do this as friendly as possible. I gave her a choice of 2 good offers and also explained if she wants to make this hard I was willing to go that way also and would bring up her past in court and fight for every cent. She said she didn't want this and that's where we left it.
Make the decision then clean up the mess. Exactly what I needed to here at this time.
Your friend,
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