ShootingStar1

When I realized that I was repeating the pattern in my life of choosing dysfunctional alcoholics, I found a great book called The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships by Patrick Carnes, Ph.D. It might interest you. Amazon has it in paperback and Kindle.

What it is about is looking at the early relationships in our lives where we bonded to someone who betrayed us and then had that as part of our internal model of what a relationship included. It calls that a "betrayal bond" and talks about how to move beyond that to begin to choose and form relationships that are mutually healthy.

ShootingStar1

myfreedom

Thank you all very much. His mom texted me this morning and told me that I am doing the right thing, no matter if he only drinks once a week right now, he is still an alcoholic, and the bad will eventually show its face again. Says I should just let go. I am glad I have this forum to help me do what is right.

involved

I decided to reread getting them sober and right off the bat it says that the Alcoholic is 80% more likely to seek sobriety if we stop trying to worry about, fix and take care of them, and do the work to change/heal ourselves... I read these books a year and a half ago when he was struggleing to begin this journey and stop drinking. I now know that sobriety means so much more, and am reading these books with a whole new set of eyes! Your getting out of that environment shows you are a strong brave woman...no one ever dies from looking their fear in the eye and saying "YOUR NOT MY PROBLEM" so get out of the universe way and take care of yourself. The only person you can love well is you ��

LostMyWay1217

I honestly got chills all over when I read your story. The exact same thing going on in my life. I have asked him numerous times to move out and he refuses. He is clinging to me for dear life. And to a certain extent, I'm clinging to him. Co-dependency at it's worst. I think that we are hung up on the person we thought they were...before the alcoholism took over. The person we wanted them to be. And for so long we have been trying to control and change them, that we are afraid that once we stop, we will have no purpose in their lives. I also keep thinking "what if he really is serious about change this time?" "what if he takes the necessary steps to change?" "what if he suddenly becomes the person I married again and decides to move on with someone else because he thinks I turned my back on him?" So many things holding me back from filing the papers to force him out of the house. I don't want the drama in front of the kids. They have seen too much. I know how my own divorced childhood was (horrible awful), so at least right now I have a certain amount of control where the bad in concerned. I want to be where you are. I would give anything to be as strong as you are right now. But it's very difficult. Don't back down now. Like involved said, you are a very strong brave woman. And if they are committed to changing, they won't stop just because we are gone. I'll be praying for you.

myfreedom

I am trying to be strong but it is sooooo hard. I am clinging to him and do not want him to find someone else but I can not wait for him to decide if he is ready to make the change. Without that, there really is no hope.

AnvilheadII

I am clinging to him and do not want him to find someone else

what does that clinging DO for you? knowing all you know, the facts and the outcomes, WHY do you hold on to someone who has let you down time and time and time again, who has a drinking problem AND anger issues? you can't keep schlepping the kids around cuz you can't make up your mind. give THEM stability, safety and security...put their needs ahead of your own. instead of running everything thru the filter of your fear of being alone, run everything thru the filter of what is the BEST THING for my children.........

LostMyWay1217

I truly understand how you feel. I really really do. I honestly wish I had something to offer other than the peace that comes with knowing you are not alone. So many others are going through the same thing. "Should I stay or go?" "We didn't get married so that we could get divorced." My AH will just cry and say "I don't want to be like this!" and then turn around and lie to me about going to meetings or where he has been. He will stand there with his bloodshot eyes and the lost empty gaze on his face, and say "I haven't been drinking." I just can't deal with it. It all comes down to our self-worth and knowing that we are better than this and that "alone" doesn't have to mean lonely. This is that tough love stage that you are in. But keep telling yourself that if you don't do this...if you go back...he has no motivation to change. If we keep doing what we always did, we will keep getting what we always got. Change your approach, and that may (or may not) motivate change in him. My mother in law says the same thing as yours. Don't you know what is best for your own kids? You should listen to her. She has known him a lot longer than you have. Our AHs are very manipulative and very selfish. Don't give in. You need to see lasting change. You are just like me. We need to focus on bettering ourselves or anything that will take our mind off them. Do something to help change the only person you can change right now - YOU. Try to not obsess over what his doing or might be doing. Don't allow your insecurity (and missing him) to destroy the progress you have made. Ask yourself "am I missing him (as he is now), or "am I missing the him that he used to be - the one I want him to be."

involved

I think they are more afraid of loosing us than we are of them. Thats why they work so hard to keep us as sick as they are! I say tap into the power of that knowledge and use it to gain stregnth and self esteem!

Nearly every sound human being experiences, at some time in life, a compelling desire to find a mate of the oposite sex with whom the fullest possible union can be made-spiritual, emotional, mental, physical. This mighty urge is the root of great human accomplishments. A creative energy that deeply influances our lives. God fashioned us that way. So our question is this: How by ignorance, compulsion and self will, do we misuse this gift to our own destruction?
12 steps and 12 tradition of AA

Why are we so afraid to be rejected by a reject?
Getting them sober

velma929

I don't think I "fell for it" all those years.

I didn't want to admit I had made a mistake in my choice of a mate. I was ashamed of him, and was ashamed of myself for choosing him, and staying so long. I didn't want to be alone. There are things much worse than being alone.

myfreedom

Well I am having a hard time figuring out what to tell him. Do I need time, am I done, i just don't know. He thinks once financials are better off that we will be ok. He won't drink nearly as much. I know he had two the other night, so he says. I could tell in his voice on the phone. My other problem is the kids, they do not want to be with him at all. They get the bus there after school and are there for 45 minutes and my 9 yr old is constantly texting me when he is getting picked up. I would like them to have dinner with him Tues and Thurs evenings, to spend some time together. My daughter stays in her room listening to music. She says that she is just doing to him what he has done to her so many times. Is that acceptable? Do I allow them to treat him this way? I encourage them to spend time with him, but they would rather be with me. AH says he feels like he isn't wanted and that he isn't even there. I need some advice on how to handle this..........

SparkleKitty

I wish I had some great advice for you, but I am very sympathetic with how your kids are feeling and know that any words of wisdom would be biased. I do know that it is okay for you to say "I don't know right now," and that will have to be good enough for him.

Kindeyes

I played on the same merry-go-round for five years with my XAH. Until one day.....the doubt was gone. The sadness was there but the doubt was gone. When the pain of staying became greater than the fear of leaving, I knew our marriage was finished.

Good news.....two years after my divorce, I met my current husband. We have been married for 28 years. He is a kind, non-alcoholic, non-addict, responsible loving, educated, intelligent, calm, stable man......if I had stayed married to my XAH, I would not have spent the last 28 years with the type of man I deserved.

Fear often holds us captive for a long time. Pain/anguish eventually trumps fear of the unknown. And the timing of that is different for each of us.

Take care of you and the children.

gentle hugs
ke

BlueSkies1

I hear what your daughter said, and I think--good for her!
They have their own relationship. It is complicated. It takes work to fix a damaged relationship.
Let your daughter do whatever she wants when she is with him. Don't take her power away from her. I wouldn't get in the middle of it at all. That girl needs to feel like she has some power in her life, and that power is in her relationships (because she's young and doesn't have a mortgage yet and is ordered to attend school!)

She isn't treating him "badly" or ignoring him because she is inherently "bad". That's where the balance is right now in their relationship--there's no trust, no sincerity, no honest communication coming from him. What she's doing isn't acting out--she's letting him know "this is where we stand".

myfreedom

I want him to realize what he has done to them. Do I let them battle this out on their own? Do I make them go there when they don't want to? I dont think he would try for any custody because he knows that he really has no chance with his history. Don't want to harm kids anymore than they have been.

BlueSkies1

Think if it was you, myfreedom. Imagine your mother telling you to be nice to somebody that had treated you badly. Imagine your mother instilling guilt and telling you to bury your feelings. There would go your self-esteem. There would go your sense of balance, of holding half the power in a relationship, and there would go your self-trust.
I know you don't want to do that to her.

It IS their battle.

Go where they don't want to?
That just falls within the law...the court would force them to spend some time with him, is that what you are asking?

involved

Sorry...saying "I want him to" is not the right way to think...the fact is he doesnt and you cant make him. Serenity prayer...change what YOU can, accept what you cant. Accepting doesnt mean laying down and liking it. It neans that after you accept that you cant change it, yhen you have a choice.

myfreedom

Your right. I do not want her feeling guilty or pretending. I want her to express her feelings. AH says kids will know he is changing, he will prove it to them, and I am running out of time with him....... I will have kids go to his home on their scheduled days and try not to respond to any texts I get from them about me picking them up unless AH says to.

hopeful4

My daughter is 14. Not only do I know that his not drinking is my boundary, it is hers too. She has let me know how much anxiety it gives her even if he mentions a drink or takes even one drink. That is not ok with me or with my children, so it is up to me to take action.

I understand how you feel about do you make them go if they don't want to. That is what I am discussing w/my oldest daughter now, making her see that if I file for divorce an attorney has already told me 100% he will have joint custody. I need them to understand they will have to be around dad when I am not there. We are working through all the options right now and it is so hard.

I want you to know you are not alone. PM me anytime you need a friend. I do truly understand.

Tight Hugs.

myfreedom

It is very hard. In my case, AH would not get joint custody. He has 2 DUI'S, public drunkeness, 2 PFA's on him, parephenalia (sp?) and maybe one other thing. Domestic violence clinic already said that with his record, he probably would get supervised visitation at first, and then after that I'm not sure. But he def would not get joint. Makes it alittle easier, but still hard on the kids.

hopeful4

Definitely still hard on the kids. My daughter told me that she still wants a relationship but does not want to be left with him or have to spend the night with him. She also said that she expects his actions to match his words. She has no trust, but is a good and forgiving person who loves her dad and would give him a chance. Does he deserve that, only time can tell. It is good he would not get custody, that is such a huge thing to have to worry about. I also have an 8 y.o. daughter so it's a much bigger deal with her b/c of her age.

My older daughter did tell me how glad she was to be able to talk about all of it with me. I think that is the key, being open and honest with them and listenting to them and their fears and working through those fears with them.

Good Luck and God Bless!