Katchie

He came home with a box of turtles, a fancy cookie, and a mushy card. We head to a swanky restaurant and the entire 20 minute drive he uses to open up about our relationship, talks some about his A A experience, apologizes over and over for all the heartache he has caused, wants to know where I'm at emotionally...I pull in to the parking lot of the nice restaurant at 3 for an early meal and movie afterwards but we are still sitting there 2 hours later. I've been bawling my eyes out which created an enormous headache. He then says it might be best, That is if i want, to temporarily separate because the tension is so great in our home between us, which hes right, it is. He then asks if I'm ready to go in for a bite..I decline for the red swollen eyes and puffy face. But we do go to a movie ... afterwards a bite to eat and home again. The only good thing I can say about today is there are no longer secret feelings/emotions. He may be moving out now, we'll see.

choublak

Does he not have a sponsor to talk about some of this stuff with?

Fandy

I wouldn't believe him as far as I could throw him about the withdrawal of $$.
He is stashing it somewhere. It is a pretty big coincidence, no?
He just now brings up separation, right after your conversation about disappearing funds?
Check your account before he cleans it out.

HealingWillCome

Katchie, I'm sending up extra prayers for you tonight. Hugs to you.

hopeful4

Tight hugs Katchie!

EnglishGarden

I don't know how long your husband has been going to AA, but for myself, knowing what I know and having had the experiences I have had, I would not ever try to work out a relationship with someone who has less than a year sober and who has not been in long-term counseling and actively working a recovery program for a year.

In my opinion, the brain disease has just not had enough time to even begin to return to a somewhat "normal" state, capable of rational thinking, emotional processing, and empathy.

Don't worry about the volcanic release of pent-up emotion today. Whatever he does next will not be in any way your fault. Not now. Not ever. Addiction is a pattern of escape, and when the alcoholic runs, he always tries to blame somebody else. But it is always always always his own crap.

Things will feel out of control for you for a while longer perhaps, but I think it will likely be necessary, like a birthing. Get help, don't let him mess with your mind, and keep your focus on your goals.

changeneeded

Hang tight Katchie, he might just be calling a bluff. Might figure you get all emotional and let up a little, I dont know. In my experience, he could very well be just feeling the situation out. To take you out for Valentines day, lay this all on you and then ask to go ahead and eat, see a movie? He's still "calling the shots" he's even letting you know how your going to feel. At least it's what it seems like it from this side of it.

However, I could just be assuming he is like mine.

Hugs and prayers,

Mango blast

((((Katchie))))

Breath deep and pray. Let it all go.

It's a tough journey, but you're not alone. Being on this side of the recovery process, I don't see any red flags going off or that anything was set up. He feels the tension, you feel the tension and you're both in new territory with his early recovery efforts. Men and women approach things differently, and then throw alcoholism and codie behavior into the mix!

My husband and I have yet to find a good way and good times to communicate, let alone doing it well. We're mostly just giving each other room. Yesterday we had dinner 'together' with our young son in our dining room. My husband turned on the tv in the living room and didn't even notice I was crying through most of the meal. Neither did our son, who's usually really perceptive. He was turned around watching tv, too. I ate quick and left. RAH asked where I was going and I made an excuse and said I'd be back soon. He grew up watching tv during dinner and it was at family week in rehab that I related to the fact that he can't even settle down enough to have a meal with me without looking everywhere else and wanting to eat and get going. His brain can't settle down. He's told me before that watching tv helps with that. Later we all played Yahtzee and had some fun. He either didn't know I had been upset or is just getting used to it and letting it go. During a film at family week I was bawling. He was puzzled and afterwards asked "what's wrong?". I didn't really answer and he let it go. It was a ton of emotions and helplessness welling up inside of me that had been released, that I wasn't ready to go into with our 10 minute break before group. If bringing it up later would have been useful, I would have, but we're healing on different timelines and in different ways. That's okay.

The fact that he bought me a card and flowers that didn't come from the liquor store is a very good thing.

In our experience so far, he's plodding through each day and I still too often react and overreact. I'm the one up in the middle of the night while he's finally learning how to get some sleep. Overall I'm sleeping better, but throw in some emotions and reacting and again I woke up at 3am and can't go back to sleep. Serious codie stuff at work, wanting to 'fix' things I perceive as being wrong with him, while what I really need to do is work on myself.

I'm on a nutritional and supplement regimen to help with hormones, emotions and other health issues. It's helping immensely, as long as I stick to it. I skipped a few doses this week when I was busy, two out of three doses missed Wednesday, and not really working my codie recovery program the past couple of days. I'm learning how to take care of myself, but implementing that on a daily basis still needs work.

IMO, $500/week is easy to spend - and we're on a tight budget so it's easy to go over. We haven't been lately, but when any extra is available it's so easy to spend!!

My RAH is trying to learn to navigate life with sobriety. I'm trying to navigate in unfamiliar territory here, also.

We could so easily have had a night like yours. It's a good thing he's busy with work right now. Someday we need to start finding balance, but for now it's good for us to have some distance. Baby steps are okay. It may not sound like progress, but for us it actually is.

My RAH has yet to talk about his rehab or AA experience, or want to talk about our relationship or our feelings. We've had some closeness, but it's the few little day to day things in trying to act normal that in turn bring that about. Just a really close nice hug without talking about it all. Not many, but enough for now.

Just because he brought up what you've been thinking about separating, doesn't mean anything has to be decided immediately. You both still have a say in things, if you want to. Is it possible to ease the tension in the house without that? Do you want to work on your marriage, does he, and would it be easier to do that with some distance between you -- or does it just make it easier to start walking away from each other? No need to answer these things here, or even to have any of the answers at all. Separating could lead you back to each other, if you both want to work towards that, or it could lead you to separate lives. Staying in the same home could have the same results. There is no right or wrong way. There are only different choices and paths available.

My standard thought lately is always having the option to table a certain discussion such as this for some time period. If you don't want him to leave, ask him to work on things with you for XX days or months and then have you both discuss things then. That could give you each time to work with your own sponsors, counselors and maybe even a family counselor before jumping into anything new. Are your boys going to counseling or Alateen?

Katchie

I asked him that during our parking lot conversation and no, he doesn't but he said he is getting to know people so he can choose one. He hasn't been going to AA for very long, maybe a 1.5 weeks?

Katchie

Im trying to apply the saying of hope for the best but plan for the worse. I know that I shouldn't trust the alcoholic, so Im measuring all he says against the disease as best as possible.

Seren

katchie

I'm so sorry...I hate nights like that and used to have plenty with my ex-husband.

I hope you were able to get some rest last night. Just one moment at a time, right?

Katchie

From what I could gather from him, he thinks a few weeks away is all he needs. I don't think that is enough either. I just didn't want to say that at that moment. He seems very concerned about the relationship but wanted to know exactly how I feel about him, that he needed to hear it. So I told him im hurt, angry, resentful, have lost all respect, have no trust of him, no trust of him with our sons. He asked if there was still any love for him deep down inside of me somewhere. I told him yes, but right now I just cannot bear to look at him. Amazingly, I slept pretty well.

CodeJob

Katchie, if you want space so you can work on things, he offered it. If this is what you want, you can have it.

I've sometimes been a martyr and not taken what I really needed...

Even if his motives aren't 100% truthful, you could choose to benefit. A lot of people post here about the peace they get from having their own space.

FireSprite

I'm sorry you had a rotten night, but it kinda sounds productive in a way too, especially since you weren't exactly on board with the big romantic dinner & all that went with it to begin with.

I think a separation is a good thing FOR YOU based on the things you've shared here & the amount of years you have been enmeshed. I think it would give you the room to find yourself, spread your wings a little & get the kind of distance needed to fully see your situation. A separation doesn't have to = impending divorce & your kids are old enough to understand that if you both sit down & explain it to them. They have to be more than aware of the tension in the house as well, and would likely benefit from a break in that pressure.

Like Fandy though, I'm having a hard time about the money thing - maybe it's my own codie issues coming out, but red flags are flying all over that one for me. I'm having a hard time believing that the person who exclusively handled the famiy finances until recently is so unaware of his own spending. I think he's just caught off guard that you *caught* him & questioned him about it.

You are changing the Rules in the Game the more you learn, the stronger you get, the more independently you think & the more you question & that is threatening him, IMO. Am I correct in remembering that he is only working a program for a few weeks & may still be secretly drinking as well?

Katchie

Keepingthefaith,

Thank you for your reply. I don't, at this point of exhaustive talk over the money, believe that he has done anyting other than just spend. We went over what he does for the boys, giving money here and there, and how easily it goes, and it goes quickly. He showed me his reciepts he's been keeping, and yes, the majority has been things for the boys. I will still look at this from the perspective that he's an A that hasnt much sober time under his belt.

I also let him know that the boys are very upset with him, esp. son #2. H said he figured that since the boy doesn't come around him much, nor the other boys. He said he will have an individual talk with each one and tell them that he will be leaving for a little while to work on himself, to heal, and that they are not at fault and apologize to them. I have no reason to believe he wouldn't do this, but hope he does.

Im not ready to say divorce, but a separation I think would be good. I can't stand the tension and what it does to me physically, emotionally and spiritually. I do, at this point want to make this marriage work. Too much time has been invested and I want my children to have an intact family if at all possible. If in the end its not possible Ill cross that bridge when I get there.

No, the boys are not in therapy or alateen. I've tried to get them to go and they won't hear of it. I give them my ear to spew whatever they need when I can see internal conflict.

Katchie

Oh yes, the tension is high, not just from me but from the boys too.

And yes, 1.5 weeks is all that he's been in the program.

Fandy

I hope very much that I am incorrect Kacthie...but he is manipulating you...
this stinks like old fish.

there is much more than him trying to proclaim his working it out....just like spending 500-600 bucks a week on "pizza, and stuff for the boys"...what kind of person carries a wad of cash these days? what do the CC statements show,what is the balance what are the transactions?

if he leaves, who maintains the responsibilities of the bills? You do not work, you have not income of your own, your inheiritance from your family will go to his new apartment, house, girfriend. I think he is covering like my cat in the litterbox.

2 households cost a lot of $$ everymonth. is it practical when you are questioning bills being paid on time and the price of a dishwasher?

Stung

I just want to echo what CodeJob said, that the space away from him may be a blessing in disguise for both of you. I can only speak from my own experiences but being separated from my husband has been quintessential in being able to better myself and create a better environment for my daughters. Although it was really difficult and very emotional at first, it has been a really good thing. Even for my husband who can fully focus on his own recovery because I now do not expect anything from him on a day to day basis.

dandylion

Katchie---first, I want to say congratulations to you for being able to bawl for 2hrs.(in front of him).---and then, being able to tell him exactly how you are feeling about him without a sugar coating!!!! This is quite an accomplishment given what you have shared about this, with us.

I have long felt that separation for the first year of recovery should be the gold standard. It is just that hard on everyone!!

Katchie, I k now you want to "work on the marriage"......It is my opinion that that the individuals have to be "worked on" first before it is possible to "work on the marriage". It seems that for couples to have a better chance of making it---happily--long-term---they have to be willing to work their respective programs......and accept that they will BOTH BE CHANGED by the recovery process. Then, at the point that each has new clarity and new ways of thinking and behaving----be willing to start from a "new beginning" with the relationship.

It sounds like he thinks that this will be a short blip of time and all will be well in paradise, again. I believe that is just part of his ignorance of the disease and the denial that goes along with the disease. If you feel differently---or know differently---I would suggest even more conversation with him.......esp., before he goes to making "promises" to the boys.

If the marriage will survive--it will regardless of whether you separate or not.(I believe). Thus, I think breathing space for everyone would decrease a lot of the tension that comes with early recovery. He can be a good father to the boys--wherever he is living. This tension has got to be harder on the boys than is assumed. It almost always is!

Sorry about the less than stellar valentine's day......but, honestly, Katchie...you kind of knew it was'nt going to be exactly a roll in erotica, didn't you? Thank God it is over.

dandylion

Katchie

i didn't wake to a headache. So that's great. I do feel a little lighter. Pilates this morning, which I was dreading was a physical blessing, & now I'm going to my first Saturday Alan on meeting. I don't know what else to do. H is going to his first Saturday meeting too.

I didn't think about it but yes, that's the first time I've bawled in front of him about this. A lot of firsts.