Divorce vs. Marriage vows
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Divorce vs. Marriage vows
Any advice how I can come to terms with this conflict?
When does "for worse" before God become null and void?
I truly meant my vows. Honesty never thought I would EVER even consider D.
Also any links to reading materials would be great. I wish I had a spiritual leader that I could talk to. One with knowledge of addiction.
Anyone from Celebrate Recovery want to share the view point of CR?
When does "for worse" before God become null and void?
I truly meant my vows. Honesty never thought I would EVER even consider D.
Also any links to reading materials would be great. I wish I had a spiritual leader that I could talk to. One with knowledge of addiction.
Anyone from Celebrate Recovery want to share the view point of CR?
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Location: South Central USA
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I want to know who made up the vows we all take? I'm not sure they are scriptural; at least I don't know of any chapter or verse they are taken from. If I remember my OT, God divorced Israel because He was tired of their crap.
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Stealing, lying, cheating, physical and verbal abuse that come from one of the partners harming the other to me breaks the marriage vows long before it is officially declared in divorce.
Having a disease model of addiction does not excuse the behavior.
Having a disease model of addiction does not excuse the behavior.
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Lyssy,
There's a website called Marriage Builders by a counselor named Dr. Harley which is faith-based and he addresses the alcoholic marriage. If you type in "addiction" in its search engine, you'll find his article about alcoholic spouses.
In my own opinion, I believe the "for worse" phrase in the marriage vows refers to outside events which challenge the happiness and tranquility of the marriage, such as an economic recession and job loss, a troubled child, the destruction of a home in a natural disaster, an automobile accident which causes grave injury. These can all bring great stress to the marriage, but a committed couple will pull together and together they will meet every difficulty, sharing the load and the pain.
When a marriage partner who is alcoholic brings pain and suffering into the life of his spouse because of his intoxication and its accompanying devastating effects to the safety and health of the family home, then that alcoholic husband has a moral obligation to seek appropriate treatment with all his heart and mind, without ceasing, and for life, as part of his vow to love and to honor his spouse and his family. It is his duty.
This is so whether the addiction is to alcohol, sex, gambling, or heroin.
And unless he does so, then all the "for worse" outside events to come in life will be met by you alone, coping alone, acting alone, struggling alone. You have been left on your own, you see, if he is actively drinking and will not deal with life's duties and troubles.
This is essentially an abandonment of the wife, and when this happens, the wife eventually has to face the reality of her situation and deal with it emotionally, spiritually, and legally. If she does not, then she suffers, for it is terrible to our self-esteem when we refuse to make mature choices based on concrete reality. The consequences of avoiding necessary change are always detrimental, and without doubt, one certain outcome will be depression.
You have your own answers. You will find them and you will know what you want and you will act on that when the time is right. Just keep searching as you are doing, and it will all come clear. It is your life. You will decide.
There's a website called Marriage Builders by a counselor named Dr. Harley which is faith-based and he addresses the alcoholic marriage. If you type in "addiction" in its search engine, you'll find his article about alcoholic spouses.
In my own opinion, I believe the "for worse" phrase in the marriage vows refers to outside events which challenge the happiness and tranquility of the marriage, such as an economic recession and job loss, a troubled child, the destruction of a home in a natural disaster, an automobile accident which causes grave injury. These can all bring great stress to the marriage, but a committed couple will pull together and together they will meet every difficulty, sharing the load and the pain.
When a marriage partner who is alcoholic brings pain and suffering into the life of his spouse because of his intoxication and its accompanying devastating effects to the safety and health of the family home, then that alcoholic husband has a moral obligation to seek appropriate treatment with all his heart and mind, without ceasing, and for life, as part of his vow to love and to honor his spouse and his family. It is his duty.
This is so whether the addiction is to alcohol, sex, gambling, or heroin.
And unless he does so, then all the "for worse" outside events to come in life will be met by you alone, coping alone, acting alone, struggling alone. You have been left on your own, you see, if he is actively drinking and will not deal with life's duties and troubles.
This is essentially an abandonment of the wife, and when this happens, the wife eventually has to face the reality of her situation and deal with it emotionally, spiritually, and legally. If she does not, then she suffers, for it is terrible to our self-esteem when we refuse to make mature choices based on concrete reality. The consequences of avoiding necessary change are always detrimental, and without doubt, one certain outcome will be depression.
You have your own answers. You will find them and you will know what you want and you will act on that when the time is right. Just keep searching as you are doing, and it will all come clear. It is your life. You will decide.
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Marriage is a contract. Ditto for the vows - it's not a romantic view but a practical view. When one side null and voids a marriage by not meeting their agreed upon obligations than there is nothing holding you to your vows anymore - the contract is null and void, broken. A divorce is just a formal dissolution of that contract. My husband has nulled our marriage by breaking lots of marriage vows. IF we decide to unseparate in the future I will need to have some kind of renewal of our vows or something symbolic done so show that he's recommitting himself because obviously our first vows meant nothing to him.
For me, "for worse" hasn't happened (yet? hopefully I never hit the true breaking point) and I don't think there is a blaket answer as to what "for worse" constitutes. Some religious couples can work through infidelity and I can tell you that "for worse" doesn't include adultery for me. Cheating is grounds for a divorce immediately without trying to work anything out, IMO. It just depends on your heart and your understanding of your vows.
For me, "for worse" hasn't happened (yet? hopefully I never hit the true breaking point) and I don't think there is a blaket answer as to what "for worse" constitutes. Some religious couples can work through infidelity and I can tell you that "for worse" doesn't include adultery for me. Cheating is grounds for a divorce immediately without trying to work anything out, IMO. It just depends on your heart and your understanding of your vows.
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the traditional marriage vows were first used by the Church of England and included in the Book of Common Prayer in 1549. Prior to that in 1533, he had his marriage to Catherine of Aragon annulled, and then married Anne Boleyn. The pope then declared that marriage null and excommunicated Henry. So Henry then broke away from the Catholic Church and installed himself as head of the Church of England.
When Anne produced a daughter (the future Queen Elizabeth) instead of a son, Henry had her charged with treason, jailed, tried and beheaded. I guess that's the "til death do up part" bit?
marital vows are made by TWO parties, to each other in front of a community. it's a contract....and as any contract, only valid with the parties involved uphold that contract. if I hire someone to replace my roof, we enter into a contract, if they come, tear off the old roof and then never return to finish the job, they have voided their side of the contract. and i'm left with a gaping hole where the roof once stood.
it's helpful to remember what life was like back in the fun-filled 1500's. the life expectancy was 30-40. the wealthy lived longer. disease was rampant, bathing rare, women had no rights, owned no property and marriage was more a matter of survival.
When Anne produced a daughter (the future Queen Elizabeth) instead of a son, Henry had her charged with treason, jailed, tried and beheaded. I guess that's the "til death do up part" bit?
marital vows are made by TWO parties, to each other in front of a community. it's a contract....and as any contract, only valid with the parties involved uphold that contract. if I hire someone to replace my roof, we enter into a contract, if they come, tear off the old roof and then never return to finish the job, they have voided their side of the contract. and i'm left with a gaping hole where the roof once stood.
it's helpful to remember what life was like back in the fun-filled 1500's. the life expectancy was 30-40. the wealthy lived longer. disease was rampant, bathing rare, women had no rights, owned no property and marriage was more a matter of survival.
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Lyssy---my views are pretty much along the lines of English Garden. By the way, that website that she mentions---MarriageBuilders.com is a very good one, in my opinion for anyone struggling with marital issues.
I see marriage a a mutual comittment (contract) of the heart for the purpose of satisfying the emotional and biologic needs of the individuals involved. The public, legal contract is an instrument of the governing body to ensure the proper transferrence of property.
LOL....I will never forget that I missed this question on an exam in a course called "Marriage and Family". The professor scolded me soundly----and wrote on my paper in large RED letters! I had written that procreation was the main purpose (I already knew that "love" was the wrong answer). He said: "NEVER FORGET THIS---the institution of marriage is to ensure the proper transference of property!!!" LOL!
When a contract is broken by one of the parties---it is broken (again, my opinion). Abuse and addiction are considered "deal breakers" in most circles,
in our current culture. Personally, I think that the boundary for what is a deal breaker is decided deep inside each one of us. I know I have my short list.
These are my thoughts on this, Lyssy---for your thoughts. I won't call myself "religious", because I left concrete, organizational religion or "religiouosity" behind (although I was raised with it)--but, I do consider myself to be very spiritual.
sincerely......dandylion
I see marriage a a mutual comittment (contract) of the heart for the purpose of satisfying the emotional and biologic needs of the individuals involved. The public, legal contract is an instrument of the governing body to ensure the proper transferrence of property.
LOL....I will never forget that I missed this question on an exam in a course called "Marriage and Family". The professor scolded me soundly----and wrote on my paper in large RED letters! I had written that procreation was the main purpose (I already knew that "love" was the wrong answer). He said: "NEVER FORGET THIS---the institution of marriage is to ensure the proper transference of property!!!" LOL!
When a contract is broken by one of the parties---it is broken (again, my opinion). Abuse and addiction are considered "deal breakers" in most circles,
in our current culture. Personally, I think that the boundary for what is a deal breaker is decided deep inside each one of us. I know I have my short list.
These are my thoughts on this, Lyssy---for your thoughts. I won't call myself "religious", because I left concrete, organizational religion or "religiouosity" behind (although I was raised with it)--but, I do consider myself to be very spiritual.
sincerely......dandylion
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It is difficult, Lyssy. I understand. My views on marriage/marriage vows are a huge part of what kept me in my marriage this long. We briefly tried marriage counseling with a christian counselor. When he stopped going, I continued going. It was a very difficult decision. To be honest, if our circumstances didn't require it, I would probably still be suffering through this marriage. Not healthy and not the marriage I want to model to my teens. I do not want them to think this is what marriage looks like! I agree with everyone else, our husbands abandoned the marriage for a love affair with the bottle. They broke the marriage vows. We are just saving ourselves.
I do not attend CR but I know one of the CR groups at our church is specifically aimed towards those going through separations and divorce. I've heard wonderful things about it. Prior to CR, our church had a divorce care class. It is offered at many churches nationwide.
Also, I just read your post where you said you felt like a hostage because of the financial situation. I felt much the same way. I really thought my AH would never agree to leave... but he did. He moves out this weekend. He is currently working a very low paying job and knew that staying in the house without me was not an option. I am keeping the house. In our case, I naively put my inheritance into our home and some property we purchased; therefore, the inheritance became joint property
Hopefully, that is not the case for you.
I'm sorry, Lyssy, I know how hard this is
I do not attend CR but I know one of the CR groups at our church is specifically aimed towards those going through separations and divorce. I've heard wonderful things about it. Prior to CR, our church had a divorce care class. It is offered at many churches nationwide.
Also, I just read your post where you said you felt like a hostage because of the financial situation. I felt much the same way. I really thought my AH would never agree to leave... but he did. He moves out this weekend. He is currently working a very low paying job and knew that staying in the house without me was not an option. I am keeping the house. In our case, I naively put my inheritance into our home and some property we purchased; therefore, the inheritance became joint property
Hopefully, that is not the case for you. I'm sorry, Lyssy, I know how hard this is
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...marriage vows are not a mutual suicide pact. To me it was obvious my wife had given up on her vows a long time ago.
My marriage vows were morphing into a mutual suicide pact. My husband no longer had any interest of being true to me in body, mind, or soul. There's nothing to work with there. Different people draw different lines in the sand. For me, a good rule is the 3 As: (Active) addiction, Adultery, and Abuse are all 100% valid reasons to withdraw from a marriage or relationship. People who encourage you to stick it out through these exceptional and extreme circumstances have an agenda that is not in your best interest.
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I agree with everyone above. I still struggle with it at times. Being raised in the church, you learn from infancy that divorce is one of the ultimate no-nos, and it is hard to get away from a lifetime of that.
I also had a problem because a couple of pastors told me point blank that what I had experienced in my marriage was not cause for divorce. I had to remind myself that pastors are also just humans, and that some of them see it as part of their job description to hold their congregations to a standard that God himself knows we can't ever live up to.
For me, divorcing my first husband was about survival. Whether or not God wanted me to divorce, I wanted to live. The whole thing has humbled me. I think in many ways, I was one of those raised-in-the-church Christians who was secretly a little bit like the Pharisee in one of the NT books who goes to the Temple and says "Thank you, Lord, that I'm not as sinful as some people."
Deliberately choosing to divorce my first husband may or may not have been against God's will. AXH certainly has let me know in no uncertain terms that I'm a ***** for violating God's law against divorce. I've had to rebuild my relationship with God, this time based on a much more acute awareness that I am a sinner. And if divorcing AXH to survive is a sin, then I'm an unrepentant sinner.
The God I serve accepts that. He knew when he created me that I would not be perfect. And the fact that he has rewarded me with a husband who is not cheating on me with a bottle, the fact that he has paved the way for me to have a new life where I can serve him and not be the slave of a husband who's the slave to an addictive drug -- that is evidence enough for me that he loves me regardless.
That's how I see it.
I also had a problem because a couple of pastors told me point blank that what I had experienced in my marriage was not cause for divorce. I had to remind myself that pastors are also just humans, and that some of them see it as part of their job description to hold their congregations to a standard that God himself knows we can't ever live up to.
For me, divorcing my first husband was about survival. Whether or not God wanted me to divorce, I wanted to live. The whole thing has humbled me. I think in many ways, I was one of those raised-in-the-church Christians who was secretly a little bit like the Pharisee in one of the NT books who goes to the Temple and says "Thank you, Lord, that I'm not as sinful as some people."
Deliberately choosing to divorce my first husband may or may not have been against God's will. AXH certainly has let me know in no uncertain terms that I'm a ***** for violating God's law against divorce. I've had to rebuild my relationship with God, this time based on a much more acute awareness that I am a sinner. And if divorcing AXH to survive is a sin, then I'm an unrepentant sinner.
The God I serve accepts that. He knew when he created me that I would not be perfect. And the fact that he has rewarded me with a husband who is not cheating on me with a bottle, the fact that he has paved the way for me to have a new life where I can serve him and not be the slave of a husband who's the slave to an addictive drug -- that is evidence enough for me that he loves me regardless.
That's how I see it.
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Well, it does say in the bible you can leave your spouse for infidelity. So...I have that one covered. I also see that alcohol is my husband's bride. He put's it before me and before his children.
This is the logic of why I think I am allowed to get a divorce. It is not what I want, but I refuse to just keep going down this road. I had an anxiety attack last week that nearly put me in the hospital, my kids need me, I cannot let alcohol be #1 in my marriage any longer. I married a man, not a bottle.
God Bless.
This is the logic of why I think I am allowed to get a divorce. It is not what I want, but I refuse to just keep going down this road. I had an anxiety attack last week that nearly put me in the hospital, my kids need me, I cannot let alcohol be #1 in my marriage any longer. I married a man, not a bottle.
God Bless.
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Lyssy, I am going to assume that you are open to scripture? (given that you mentioned CR) Some of the scripture I'm finding most helpful during my divorce is Ephesians 1:11 & Romans 8:28. God works his purpose and plan for us no matter what the circumstances are in our life, even when we run the other way. Just look at what he did when Jonah ran away! It's no different for us. He knew what we would do before we did and He loves us anyway... even if we divorce our alcoholic spouses. That helps me get through.
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JustAGirl, thank you for those. I also try to remember that God not only forgave, but even put Moses to good use for his purposes -- and Moses was a murderer. Now, I'm not advocating murder, just saying that if God can use a murderer, a donkey (Balaam's), and a person who persecuted and killed Christians (Paul), I don't think a divorce is a deal-breaker for him.
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Thank you all for your responses. I truly appreciate the input and it does help.
Been “doing” it alone for a very long time and yes, you are correct, I am suffering. He is not actively drinking (that I am aware of) and been working a program for a year now, however there are other issues, one is gambling. He is foot-loose and fancy free without a care in the world all the while dragging me along behind with my heals dug in. It is no way for either of us to live.
Thanks for the history lesson! My head comprehends the contract part; the heart is the one having issues.
//Aside – I just watched the HBO series “The Tudor” on Netflix. Very good series IMO.
Thank you for the info on DivorceCare – did you attend by yourself? I remember looking it up a while back and there are several starting in this area.
My inheritance is safely tucked away in an account all by itself. I don’t want the house. Fifteen years of neglect and problems unresolved makes it a huge money pit (for me, by myself). If it had been kept up and worked on as issues arose it might be another story. But if I walk away and he refuses to pay the mortgage then I am legally responsible for it (as is he). I am willing to let my credit take a hit (I don’t want to, but have resolved that in my mind).
In my case the “pastor” figuratively telling me “that divorce is one of the ultimate no-nos” is my deceased father (conservative Baptist Minster), my Sister, who is a leader in her church and my Brother who is high up on his churches board). And yes, this was preached at me from a very young age.
I have not spoken with either my B or S about this; I just can’t listen to it right now. I already am having a hard enough time reconciling without their input on the “til death do us part” bit.
Completely off this topic, but just wanted to say to Stung and JustAGirl1971 that I feel a deep kinship with you two. You guys have numerous times posted a topic or in your replies that have been so dead on to what I am going through. I am not sure if we would be sisters – or if our AH’s would be brothers, but our paths are definitely parallel at this point in our lives. So Thank You!
Originally Posted by EnglishGarden 
Lyssy,
This is essentially an abandonment of the wife, and when this happens, the wife eventually has to face the reality of her situation and deal with it emotionally, spiritually, and legally. If she does not, then she suffers, for it is terrible to our self-esteem when we refuse to make mature choices based on concrete reality. The consequences of avoiding necessary change are always detrimental, and without doubt, one certain outcome will be depression.
This is essentially an abandonment of the wife, and when this happens, the wife eventually has to face the reality of her situation and deal with it emotionally, spiritually, and legally. If she does not, then she suffers, for it is terrible to our self-esteem when we refuse to make mature choices based on concrete reality. The consequences of avoiding necessary change are always detrimental, and without doubt, one certain outcome will be depression.
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
the traditional marriage vows were first used by the Church of England and included in the Book of Common Prayer in 1549. Prior to that in 1533, he had his marriage to Catherine of Aragon annulled, and then married Anne Boleyn. The pope then declared that marriage null and excommunicated Henry. So Henry then broke away from the Catholic Church and installed himself as head of the Church of England.
When Anne produced a daughter (the future Queen Elizabeth) instead of a son, Henry had her charged with treason, jailed, tried and beheaded. I guess that's the "til death do up part" bit?
marital vows are made by TWO parties, to each other in front of a community. it's a contract....and as any contract, only valid with the parties involved uphold that contract. if I hire someone to replace my roof, we enter into a contract, if they come, tear off the old roof and then never return to finish the job, they have voided their side of the contract. and i'm left with a gaping hole where the roof once stood.
it's helpful to remember what life was like back in the fun-filled 1500's. the life expectancy was 30-40. the wealthy lived longer. disease was rampant, bathing rare, women had no rights, owned no property and marriage was more a matter of survival.
When Anne produced a daughter (the future Queen Elizabeth) instead of a son, Henry had her charged with treason, jailed, tried and beheaded. I guess that's the "til death do up part" bit?
marital vows are made by TWO parties, to each other in front of a community. it's a contract....and as any contract, only valid with the parties involved uphold that contract. if I hire someone to replace my roof, we enter into a contract, if they come, tear off the old roof and then never return to finish the job, they have voided their side of the contract. and i'm left with a gaping hole where the roof once stood.
it's helpful to remember what life was like back in the fun-filled 1500's. the life expectancy was 30-40. the wealthy lived longer. disease was rampant, bathing rare, women had no rights, owned no property and marriage was more a matter of survival.
//Aside – I just watched the HBO series “The Tudor” on Netflix. Very good series IMO.
Originally Posted by JustAGirl1971
It is difficult, Lyssy. I understand. My views on marriage/marriage vows are a huge part of what kept me in my marriage this long. We briefly tried marriage counseling with a christian counselor. When he stopped going, I continued going. It was a very difficult decision. To be honest, if our circumstances didn't require it, I would probably still be suffering through this marriage. Not healthy and not the marriage I want to model to my teens. I do not want them to think this is what marriage looks like! I agree with everyone else, our husbands abandoned the marriage for a love affair with the bottle. They broke the marriage vows. We are just saving ourselves.
I do not attend CR but I know one of the CR groups at our church is specifically aimed towards those going through separations and divorce. I've heard wonderful things about it. Prior to CR, our church had a divorce care class. It is offered at many churches nationwide.
Also, I just read your post where you said you felt like a hostage because of the financial situation. I felt much the same way. I really thought my AH would never agree to leave... but he did. He moves out this weekend. He is currently working a very low paying job and knew that staying in the house without me was not an option. I am keeping the house. In our case, I naively put my inheritance into our home and some property we purchased; therefore, the inheritance became joint property Hopefully, that is not the case for you.
I'm sorry, Lyssy, I know how hard this is
I do not attend CR but I know one of the CR groups at our church is specifically aimed towards those going through separations and divorce. I've heard wonderful things about it. Prior to CR, our church had a divorce care class. It is offered at many churches nationwide.
Also, I just read your post where you said you felt like a hostage because of the financial situation. I felt much the same way. I really thought my AH would never agree to leave... but he did. He moves out this weekend. He is currently working a very low paying job and knew that staying in the house without me was not an option. I am keeping the house. In our case, I naively put my inheritance into our home and some property we purchased; therefore, the inheritance became joint property
Hopefully, that is not the case for you. I'm sorry, Lyssy, I know how hard this is
My inheritance is safely tucked away in an account all by itself. I don’t want the house. Fifteen years of neglect and problems unresolved makes it a huge money pit (for me, by myself). If it had been kept up and worked on as issues arose it might be another story. But if I walk away and he refuses to pay the mortgage then I am legally responsible for it (as is he). I am willing to let my credit take a hit (I don’t want to, but have resolved that in my mind).
Originally Posted by lillamy
I agree with everyone above. I still struggle with it at times. Being raised in the church, you learn from infancy that divorce is one of the ultimate no-nos, and it is hard to get away from a lifetime of that.
I also had a problem because a couple of pastors told me point blank that what I had experienced in my marriage was not cause for divorce. I had to remind myself that pastors are also just humans, and that some of them see it as part of their job description to hold their congregations to a standard that God himself knows we can't ever live up to.
For me, divorcing my first husband was about survival. Whether or not God wanted me to divorce, I wanted to live. The whole thing has humbled me. I think in many ways, I was one of those raised-in-the-church Christians who was secretly a little bit like the Pharisee in one of the NT books who goes to the Temple and says "Thank you, Lord, that I'm not as sinful as some people."
Deliberately choosing to divorce my first husband may or may not have been against God's will. AXH certainly has let me know in no uncertain terms that I'm a ***** for violating God's law against divorce. I've had to rebuild my relationship with God, this time based on a much more acute awareness that I am a sinner. And if divorcing AXH to survive is a sin, then I'm an unrepentant sinner.
The God I serve accepts that. He knew when he created me that I would not be perfect. And the fact that he has rewarded me with a husband who is not cheating on me with a bottle, the fact that he has paved the way for me to have a new life where I can serve him and not be the slave of a husband who's the slave to an addictive drug -- that is evidence enough for me that he loves me regardless.
That's how I see it.
I also had a problem because a couple of pastors told me point blank that what I had experienced in my marriage was not cause for divorce. I had to remind myself that pastors are also just humans, and that some of them see it as part of their job description to hold their congregations to a standard that God himself knows we can't ever live up to.
For me, divorcing my first husband was about survival. Whether or not God wanted me to divorce, I wanted to live. The whole thing has humbled me. I think in many ways, I was one of those raised-in-the-church Christians who was secretly a little bit like the Pharisee in one of the NT books who goes to the Temple and says "Thank you, Lord, that I'm not as sinful as some people."
Deliberately choosing to divorce my first husband may or may not have been against God's will. AXH certainly has let me know in no uncertain terms that I'm a ***** for violating God's law against divorce. I've had to rebuild my relationship with God, this time based on a much more acute awareness that I am a sinner. And if divorcing AXH to survive is a sin, then I'm an unrepentant sinner.
The God I serve accepts that. He knew when he created me that I would not be perfect. And the fact that he has rewarded me with a husband who is not cheating on me with a bottle, the fact that he has paved the way for me to have a new life where I can serve him and not be the slave of a husband who's the slave to an addictive drug -- that is evidence enough for me that he loves me regardless.
That's how I see it.
I have not spoken with either my B or S about this; I just can’t listen to it right now. I already am having a hard enough time reconciling without their input on the “til death do us part” bit.
Completely off this topic, but just wanted to say to Stung and JustAGirl1971 that I feel a deep kinship with you two. You guys have numerous times posted a topic or in your replies that have been so dead on to what I am going through. I am not sure if we would be sisters – or if our AH’s would be brothers, but our paths are definitely parallel at this point in our lives. So Thank You!
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Originally Posted by lillamy
if God can use a murderer, a donkey (Balaam's), and a person who persecuted and killed Christians (Paul), I don't think a divorce is a deal-breaker for him.
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I was at a Speakers meeting the other night (Valentines day theme!) The Al-Anon speaker talked about her rocky relationship with her husband and looking for that perfect "excuse" to leave him. He never quite did anything "bad enough" for her to justify leaving...and they eventually both got into recovery programs and are now quite happy together.
But I hear that theme a lot...people waiting for the right reason to leave. I know all about it because I did the same thing myself. 30 years married, 15 of those years living with active and progressive alcoholism. I was miserable...until we eventually both got into recovery programs and now we're quite happy together. (Funny how that works).
But my bigger point is, I think a lot of us are so terrified of "the unknown" that we're perfectly willing to go thru a whole boatload full of suffering with what we do know. We're not really looking for an excuse to change things, we're looking for any excuse to stay right where we are.
When I got into my recovery program (Al-Anon), one of my first epiphanies was that I'm 100% responsible for my own happiness. Being happy or unhappy is my choice...and it follows pretty closely on the heels of that realization that my wife wasn't responsible for my suffering. I was 100% responsible for that too.
We always have choices. Sometimes we just work really hard to hide them from ourselves.
But I hear that theme a lot...people waiting for the right reason to leave. I know all about it because I did the same thing myself. 30 years married, 15 of those years living with active and progressive alcoholism. I was miserable...until we eventually both got into recovery programs and now we're quite happy together. (Funny how that works).
But my bigger point is, I think a lot of us are so terrified of "the unknown" that we're perfectly willing to go thru a whole boatload full of suffering with what we do know. We're not really looking for an excuse to change things, we're looking for any excuse to stay right where we are.
When I got into my recovery program (Al-Anon), one of my first epiphanies was that I'm 100% responsible for my own happiness. Being happy or unhappy is my choice...and it follows pretty closely on the heels of that realization that my wife wasn't responsible for my suffering. I was 100% responsible for that too.
We always have choices. Sometimes we just work really hard to hide them from ourselves.
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When I separated from my first husband (not an A, but boy was *I* a Codie Mess), I was shocked by how many people told me how "strong" I was for taking that step. How "brave". I did not understand -- I was lost, confused, spiraling out of control. Many moons later I asked one of those friends why they had said that to me (and truly expected her to tell me that I was such a mess she would have said ANYTHING to make me feel better). Her answer surprised me but now that all these years have passed it makes perfect sense. She said, "So many people stay in unhappy marriages because they are afraid of being alone."
Life is too short to deny yourself any opportunity for happiness. I know, as an atheist, it is easy for me to say that, and I don't mean any offense by it. For me, the pain of staying in an unhappy relationship had grown to outweigh the pain of facing the unknown.
Life is too short to deny yourself any opportunity for happiness. I know, as an atheist, it is easy for me to say that, and I don't mean any offense by it. For me, the pain of staying in an unhappy relationship had grown to outweigh the pain of facing the unknown.
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I think a lot of us are so terrified of "the unknown" that we're perfectly willing to go thru a whole boatload full of suffering with what we do know.
She did go on to find out that life can be an absolute heaven as well. But I think you make a good point, Matt.
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
Life is too short to deny yourself any opportunity for happiness. I know, as an atheist, it is easy for me to say that, and I don't mean any offense by it. For me, the pain of staying in an unhappy relationship had grown to outweigh the pain of the unknown.
Lyssy, I'm glad your inheritance is intact and safe. It's a hard lesson that I had to learn but one I definitely won't forget in the future! On the house, can you sell it? That's my backup plan if I find that it's too difficult/expensive to manage alone.
I haven't tried divorcecare. Our church dropped the program but I know several people who have attended and really liked it. There is a sister-church in our area that does offer it, and another church that offers something similar. I'm undecided on whether to attend. CR is a good option, too, if you don't do the divorce care class. I haven't done CR yet because I'm in al-anon but may start.
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