FireSprite

My mom has been going through an INTENSE awakening over the last 2 years. It definitely started because *I* changed the family dynamic by putting up healthy boundaries & she absolutely could not handle it. While my father was an addict (alcohol & cocaine, but he dabbled with everything that didn't require needles) I always chalked my mother's emotional unavailability to her being enmeshed in my AF & more the result of living with addiction than anything. Plus, they had been together since they ran off to elope when my mom was 17, and then I was born within the year so she had tied her entire identity to him in many ways from a young age.

She communicated for years with tone, never words. Deciphering what she needed/wanted was exhausting and the further I got down the road with an AH/RAH and a young child depending on me, the less patience I had for my mother's idiosyncrasies. Especially since I never understood the root of it all.

So lo & behold as she finds herself basically forced into therapy. She snapped 2 yrs ago at Christmas & then called a family meeting to give my sister & I the "What for" about everything... she fully intended to put us in our places but found both barrels leveled at her instead. Sis & I had been talking about it for months ahead of this, watching mom's behavior escalate in strange ways. Enough was enough & it was a HARD night for all of us - the firmer I stood my ground, the more she just dissolved. It was a big test for me in my recovery, staying true to myself & not being swayed by her emotions.

Little by little things are emerging. After about a year of therapy she was able to finally acknowledge that she had been raped at 7 years old, by a stranger. Wow - things started to click, some of her damage started making sense.

Then last fall she was finally able to come clean with all of her damage. Her sexual abuse/rape started much earlier in life, at around age 4, by her 3 oldest brothers. (she comes from a large family, youngest of 8 kids) Her brothers were quite a bit older than her; so when she was 4, they were 14, 13 & 12. This went on until she was 15 - long after they had served in the armed forces, married & had children of their own.

Over the holidays all of her siblings were in town to celebrate my Gram's 90th birthday & this set off a firestorm in Mom. She'd reached a point in her recovery where she was READY to confront her abusers and it was necessary for her to continue healing. It is also her last chance to have everyone together at the same time. (We knew nothing of any of this until it was all over - she handled it 100% on her own)

As the time approached when everyone would be arriving, she started going way out there emotionally - I kept telling my sister that it had to have something to do with her siblings, her anger & hatred went from zero to a million. In talking with her brother (closest to her in age, only a yr apart) she started to talk truth & was stunned to find they had been abusing HIM as well! Neither of them ever spoke up, EVER. Not to a friend, a spouse, a priest, a therapist.... NO ONE in more than 50 years.

She went into this expecting to stand alone & instead found more support than she could have imagined. Her other 3 non-abusive siblings had never been victimized and were horrified to find this all happened in their own home while they slept in adjoining rooms. They banded together to defend & protect her when it came time to out the secrets to the family.

I'm super proud of her for standing up to her abusers, I'm in awe that she is even THIS healthy for someone who was so horribly & systematically abused. I'm humbled that she was able to stop the cycle with herself & NOT continue abusing her own kids.

Now my grandmother is giving her a ton of attitude; why would she bring this up after all these years, what does she expect to come from it, what is the point? And recently, "I really thought you'd be OVER this by now..."



I'm pissed. This woman is 90 but mentally sharp as a tack & even pretty healthy physically. Things she has said indicate that she knew full well what was happening to my mother & did nothing to protect her, even though she was just a baby when it all started. The middle (unabused) siblings remembered being suspicious & going to her about it & her basically telling them mind their own business. She's made comments recently like how she told my grandfather he "could hit those kids all he wanted to so long as he never lifted a hand toward her", etc. She's no where NEAR senile, and I feel like she's blaming the victims in order to continue a relationship with the abusers & to minimize her part in it.

Mom is hurt. She has spent years being there for my gram for every single thing she could need, every dr's appt, every grocery shopping trip, etc. My grandmother can't even muster an ounce of emotion, not so much as a hug or pat on the back. Every time it comes up she talks about how it hurts HER to know about it or circles it back to herself somehow.

Mom has finally realized this is a toxic relationship & despite my gram's advanced age, she's going to have to go NC with her to save her own sanity.

I'm having to sit on my hands to stop from firing off an email to gram - she had emailed me right after this all happened, obviously feeling me out to see where I stood on it all. It was very woe-is-me and made my stomach turn because she was obviously fishing for an "It's OK Gram, I'm sure you did your best" type of response, which I was in no way able to provide.

I let her know instead that I was too angry, too filled with rage to even talk to her about it.

Now that she is continuing to act like mom is sensationalizing this, I WANT to have that conversation with Gram but I'm not sure if that oversteps Codie-wise...... I keep going back & forth.

FWIW, Gram & I have had a long, decent relationship until the last couple of years when I've gotten too busy due to my own life & issues. And since she overshares with the rest of the family, I was purposely keeping my problems off her radar. She values me, I know she does. Out of 25 grandchildren, I'm the ONLY one she has spoken of this with at all.... including my sister.

Am I overstepping if I contact my grandmother on my mother's behalf?

Hammer

From a Been There Done All This side of things . . . which is WAY beyond the scope of this board.

GET OUT OF THE MIDDLE.

ONLY support your mom. Cut the rest off.

hopeful4

O wow FS, what a horrible tale to have to tell. I am so sorry for you and so sorry for your mom. I think she must be one strong lady! It is good that she is getting all of this out instead of stuffing years worth of damage.

I am amazed how many parents stand by and let their children be abused. How could you do such a thing?! You hear it over and over and over again. Horrible.

Who knows what your Gram is feeling? I do think it would be wise to have that one final converations with her, if nothing else to have closure for you so you don't begin to stuff your own feelings about this.

Of course she is not going to speak to any of the other grandkids about this, she most likely hopes they don't know.

I don't know what you will decide, but there is no rush. Maybe you just need some time to digest it all and decide how you feel about it.

I can only say we are here for you. I am so sorry and I hope your mom continues on this journey of her own healing, and that you do too!

ps...take my opinion for what it is, just another person offering up what I think. Maybe a professional should advise you on this?

JustAGirl1971

FS, my question is: were the three abusers abused themselves? I mean, generally kids don't just start sexually abusing their siblings, kwim? Maybe gram doesn't want some other buried secrets outed?

How painful for your family I'm so sorry your mom and her brother had to endure the abuse and secrecy for years

FireSprite

Of the 3 abusers, L, D, & J, 2 of them say they were never sexually abused, that they have no excuses or reasons. Just that they got away with and kept doing so. They went on to sexually abuse 2 of J's daughters.

Here's the effed up part: gram knew about the oldest granddaughter's abuse and has taken her under wing since she was a teen..... Absolutely enmeshed in supporting her to the point of crazed codependency. She defends her to a fault, emotionally, financially and every which way.

The 3rd brother initially tried denying it even happened (shocking even the other 2), then tried to isolate my mother & talk to her alone, refusing to speak until things just escalated. The 4th or 5th excuse he offered was some vague claim at being abused, but from what i understand it was beyond insincere and fabricated.

This was also the first we'd ever heard of there being any physical abuse in the family, so I believe anything is possible at this point.

theuncertainty

Oh, FireSprite. I don't have any words. Your mom is one courageous lady to be ready to name the abuse and confront the family. I don't have any advise on the convo with your gram.... I think anger and rage is a valid response to finding out this information. Definitely take the time you need to process this information and the fact that it was hidden for so long.

Hugs, if OK.

readerbaby71

Wow. My heart goes out to your mom. I don't know that I'd be able to hold back from giving my Grandma an earful. It's probably better for your own sanity and peace of mind that you stay out of it and just support your mom. I'm glad she found an ally in her brother. My mother was sexually abused from an early age but has never had therapy or really dealt with it. I wish she would, but that is her choice. Hats off to your mom for being so brave and finally having the courage to speak up and begin to heal.

Hugs to all of you.

KateL

How awful. Hugs to your mom. xxxx

shil2587

I've been in your position recently. In the end, I decided that there was nothing I could do or say that would change the situation or the past. Sometimes, people are determined to see things in a distorted way because it's easier than admitting the truth. Nothing you could say to her would change her opinion or attitude.

That said, if she approached you about it again, I would probably let her have it, despite my considered opinion above.

Finally, has your mom spoken to the police? Is that something she would consider? Especially given the fact her brothers continue contact with their own children and they have continued the abuse.

bluebelle

You could try talking to your grandmother, but it will probably change nothing. At 90, she's most likely set in her ways. That has been my experience with my own grandmothers when it comes to that particular topic. It makes me mad, but it goes back to one of those things that I cannot change.

Insaneshame

I'm right there with ya, kinda. My cousin's 5 y/o daughter was being molested by my aunt's husband. My aunt caught him in action with her, and looked the other way. When my cousin found out, my aunt cried wolf and told everyone that my cousin made the whole story up! Now it's dividing my family to aunt's side and cousin's side. My mother has chosen her sister and I'm stuck between my mom and my cousin!!

My purpose with this story is to say that I choose to not be in the middle, nor take sides. My little cousin was violated and that's all that matters to me. The rest is BS. My mom knows better than to discuss it with me and my cousin knows better than to talk about my mom to me. Fully be there for your mom and her recovery process. I would want to cuss out my grandma too, but this is between your mom and her mom!

FireSprite

She has not spoken to the police, although my uncle who also suffered abuse checked into the legalities & apparently there is no statute of limitations on filing charges in the State of FL. He encouraged her to seriously considering filing it against all 3 as soon as she's had a chance to get past this stage of her recovery.

With the daughters, the abuse stopped years ago; the younger girl moved out of state when she was barely 18 & has never returned.... now everyone knows why. The older girl is the one Gram has blanketed with support & she has limited, if any, contact with her father. He has a degenerative disease that has been steadily reducing his quality of life over the last couple of years. The other 2 men have lived out of state for decades.

During the big family showdown, all 8 siblings + my grandmother & 2 of the abusers' wives stayed because they were in from out of town with no where to really go. Both women freaked the freak out & I KNOW one was thinking of their 5 granddaughters at home & whether the abuse continued unknown to her all these years. Ironically, she is a severe alcoholic & here we have all spent years pitying my poor uncle for the crap she's put him through. Now she is sober & all this comes to light.

I swear, there is a book or a movie in this somewhere. It just gets more unreal every time I remember more details.

LifeRecovery

Firesprite-

Have you talked with your mom about talking with your grandmother?

What strikes me reading this thread (besides how much your mom rocks) is that I think it is important to consider what she wants in this...and the reason/intention you have in talking to your grandmother.

For me (not that I have anything to relate to on this), if you are doing it to defend your mom, and she does not want that then it is acting in the old codie way (doing for someone what they can do for themselves).

I am very impressed however at the power of recovery and how it is playing out in your family.....

JustAGirl1971

I'm sorry, FS. On the abusers, just because they say that they weren't abused, doesn't rule it out. Loyalty, shame, and denial can run so deep that the victims repress the abuse.

I have a similar story in my family tree. When the sexual abuse came out, there was major fallout and the family was split, with a chasm between. Eventually, that chasm closed but there is/always will be a visible scar and relationships are forever changed. In this case, it very much was a case of the abuser perpetuating the cycle of abuse that he'd grown up in. Not surprisingly, the abuser was also one of the many alcoholics in our family tree.

I think LifeRecovery's advice was good.

FireSprite

I love this board, you all make me really think things through.

My mother's POV is that there is no further benefit to secret keeping & that since my sister & I are both the victims of collateral damage in so many ways, that we are more than entitled to have an opinion about all of this. As well as entitled to share said opinion if/when it suits us.

I have zero expectation on my grandmother's side of things, it would be more of a way of being sure that my opinions are being clearly heard, not filtered through a 3rd party or being left to assumptions.

Out of this enormous family my gram has isolated herself away from everyone with her judgements, scorn & general, miserable contempt. She was always a bit "opinionated" but over the last 10 years or so it has become downright rude & needling. She does not listen to or care for anyone really, except for a chosen few. And me? Well, *I* walk on water as far as she is concerned, which is why I got that singular email to begin with.

Because I've worked so hard to not just Codie-out & jump to my mom's defense I've followed the sage advice of, "Don't just do something, stand there". This all happened over Thanksgiving & she has had a few conversations with Gram since then, and they keep escalating toward this, "You should be over this by now" attitude. I guess it's not so much about defending mom - she'll say whatever she needs to say on her own. I guess it's more about being very clear about my feelings in all of it.

hopeful4

FS...I think you are being wise. It sounds like your Gram is an extremely toxic person to begin with just with her general attitude.

I hope you take this time to work through your own feelings and to do what you need to for closure with her.

Hugs my friend.

"Be Still and Know That I Am God".....I think this is one of the most powerful verses in the bible. Sometimes we just need to hold still and let God take over.

lillamy

This is unfortunately not unusual at all. Because two different therapist have seen "markers" of sexual abuse in my children, I've spent time talking to people and reading. One counselor I talked to said 80% of sexually abused children never tell anybody. Ever. It just breaks my heart to imagine living with that secret. I was raped as an adult, and I know the havoc that wreaked in my life. I can't even begin to imagine the fundamental damage to your self-image it would do to be repeatedly abused from the age of 4.

And unfortunately, that's a common reaction from for some reason especially mothers. A friend of mine at the age of 30 finally confronted her mother with the fact that her older brother had been sexually abusing her during their teens. Her mother's response? She started crying and said "You've ruined Thanksgiving and Christmas forever! Why couldn't you just keep your mouth shut?"

I don't claim to understand what goes on in the mind of a mother who can let that happen to her own child. I don't. I'm sure there are explanations but there are certainly no excuses.

I agree with Hammer that supporting your mom is the most important part in this. Forget the rest of the superficially perfect but below the surface monstrous family. Especially support her if she decides to file charges. It may empower the two girls to do the same. And there should be no statute of limitations on crimes like these. Because the harm done doesn't go away.

I also hope that this will be the beginning of healing for your mother, but also for your relationship with her. What a terrible thing to deal with, for all of you.

CarryOn

FireSprite, I'm so very sorry for what your family, especially your mom has been through. Hugs to all of you.

I think if talking to your grandmother about the situation will be healing for you - regardless of the outcome - then you should do it. Your mom can obviously stand on her own so you don't need to do it for her.

Thank you for sharing how your recovery has influenced your mom in her own recovery. It is a good thing to hear that while Alcoholism is a family disease, the recovery can also spread through the family; a silver lining to a very dark cloud.

FireSprite

I know, this is the part that makes my head spin... that & being trapped living with 3 abusers who lie & cover for each other constantly. I initially did not understand why when the rape happened to her at age 7, she did not feel safe going to anyone at all. It makes perfect sense now. SO many things about my mother make absolute, perfect sense now. Hearing her talk of the years of ongoing nightmares & fears makes me shudder.... now her unexplainable aches & pains & epileptic episodes make so much more sense as well.

It really is amazing how our own recoveries can affect those around us. In my earliest days of recovery it was just freaking HARD. Every time I stood up for myself it challenged those used to the old ways & every single conversation became an energy draining challenge. So many times I would just lie on my back deck on my yoga mat & weep because it was so isolating to know I was doing the right thing for myself & yet be met with selfish, narrow-minded, energy vampires who acted like I was now Enemy #1 because I dared define a boundary in my own best interests.

I have been doing some research on "Ancesteral Healing" which puts forth the idea that by healing forward (our children) we help heal backward (our mothers). So every time I make a conscious decision to change the pattern for DD & push back, my own Inner Child & mother (etc) benefit as a result.

lillamy

Yep, yep, and yep. Absolutely. And painful as it is, the fact that your recovery had ripple effects that helped your mother dealing with something she has been keeping a horrible secret her entire life must, somehow, feel like confirmation that you DID do what was right...