Where is the Compassion?
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Where is the Compassion?
Not there, yet. Just pondering.
Where is the Compassion? - Alcoholism
===============
This article is written by Donna Thompson, publisher of Challenges, in which she writes her featured column, Get A LifeŽ. A publication for people in recovery and their families.
Where is the Compassion?
The joke that was relayed to me from someone who read this column went like this:
"What's a slip in Al-Anon?"
"A spouse has a compassionate thought for the alcoholic."
I have a wide and far-reaching sense of humor. But because I am not an alcoholic, I could not find humor in what is clearly a slam at Al-Anon.
Please understand that I do not rank Al-Anon equal with the Holy Grail, in fact I have taken issue with some Al-Anon positions; but when we who have gone through alcoholic combat recognize we are losing the war, the only game in town is Al-Anon.
There, in those rooms -- usually church basements -- I have been present when women and men who are married to alcoholics openly weep with pain because the mate they love is commiting slow suicide and in the process also destroying the marriage and the family.
Their ability to feel compassion towards the alcoholic is systematically being killed off too.
An alcoholic has no conception of the depth and breadth of the pain their drunken behavior inflicts upon those who love them. How can they? Their cognitive abilities are impaired; in essence, when drunk, they are brain damaged. In fact, their thinking ability, their emotional stability, their mental capacity, are all adversely affected to such a degree that most bonafide treatment facilities will not even entertain the idea of hiring a recovering alcoholic without at least two, preferably three, years of being continuously and totally sober. And that's no guarantee they've found sobriety.
There are the rare high-functioning drunks, who are quiet, non-argumentative, and drift off into semi-consciousness. Sharing space with them is like being with the living dead. But, at least, they're quiet.
Usually, however, drunks find some way to be abusive, even to terrorize, and after a while, the non-alcoholic spouse's feelings of compassion are replaced with anger, even rage, and too often fear.
The "Enemy"
To the alcoholic, the non-alcoholic spouse is The Enemy. We who are not drunks by our existence are a threat to the alcoholic's "life" style. By attending Al-Anon, The Enemy has made it difficult for the alcoholic's denial to continue. Somehow, even after alcoholics stop drinking, that enemy mindset continues. Maybe that's when they feel cocky enough to make up "jokes" that have no basis in fact.
There is humor in Al-Anon meetings, but it's wry (not rye!) and often dark, mostly laughing at ourselves for how addled our thinking becomes as we try to maintain a sense of normalcy.
I remember returning home from the hospital where I'd been with my dying mother and finding the alcoholic I was married to sitting on the floor, his back propped against a chest of drawers. I put my hands on either side of his face and said, "I am so sorry" to his glazed, unseeing eyes. When I withdrew my hands, he slumped over. He didn't move for ten hours. I didn't laugh. I didn't cry. I didn't make up an unfunny joke. I went to bed.
Where is the Compassion? - Alcoholism
===============
This article is written by Donna Thompson, publisher of Challenges, in which she writes her featured column, Get A LifeŽ. A publication for people in recovery and their families.
Where is the Compassion?
The joke that was relayed to me from someone who read this column went like this:
"What's a slip in Al-Anon?"
"A spouse has a compassionate thought for the alcoholic."
I have a wide and far-reaching sense of humor. But because I am not an alcoholic, I could not find humor in what is clearly a slam at Al-Anon.
Please understand that I do not rank Al-Anon equal with the Holy Grail, in fact I have taken issue with some Al-Anon positions; but when we who have gone through alcoholic combat recognize we are losing the war, the only game in town is Al-Anon.
There, in those rooms -- usually church basements -- I have been present when women and men who are married to alcoholics openly weep with pain because the mate they love is commiting slow suicide and in the process also destroying the marriage and the family.
Their ability to feel compassion towards the alcoholic is systematically being killed off too.
An alcoholic has no conception of the depth and breadth of the pain their drunken behavior inflicts upon those who love them. How can they? Their cognitive abilities are impaired; in essence, when drunk, they are brain damaged. In fact, their thinking ability, their emotional stability, their mental capacity, are all adversely affected to such a degree that most bonafide treatment facilities will not even entertain the idea of hiring a recovering alcoholic without at least two, preferably three, years of being continuously and totally sober. And that's no guarantee they've found sobriety.
There are the rare high-functioning drunks, who are quiet, non-argumentative, and drift off into semi-consciousness. Sharing space with them is like being with the living dead. But, at least, they're quiet.
Usually, however, drunks find some way to be abusive, even to terrorize, and after a while, the non-alcoholic spouse's feelings of compassion are replaced with anger, even rage, and too often fear.
The "Enemy"
To the alcoholic, the non-alcoholic spouse is The Enemy. We who are not drunks by our existence are a threat to the alcoholic's "life" style. By attending Al-Anon, The Enemy has made it difficult for the alcoholic's denial to continue. Somehow, even after alcoholics stop drinking, that enemy mindset continues. Maybe that's when they feel cocky enough to make up "jokes" that have no basis in fact.
There is humor in Al-Anon meetings, but it's wry (not rye!) and often dark, mostly laughing at ourselves for how addled our thinking becomes as we try to maintain a sense of normalcy.
I remember returning home from the hospital where I'd been with my dying mother and finding the alcoholic I was married to sitting on the floor, his back propped against a chest of drawers. I put my hands on either side of his face and said, "I am so sorry" to his glazed, unseeing eyes. When I withdrew my hands, he slumped over. He didn't move for ten hours. I didn't laugh. I didn't cry. I didn't make up an unfunny joke. I went to bed.
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Alcoholics who have been sober for years find Alanon threatening to them.
I think the only way we can find compassion is when we are out and away from them. Find compassion from a distance but while we are involved with them it's pretty impossible.
Probably more important is to have compassion for ourselves. JMHO.
I think the only way we can find compassion is when we are out and away from them. Find compassion from a distance but while we are involved with them it's pretty impossible.
Probably more important is to have compassion for ourselves. JMHO.
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In the dark hours of the night, before the raging monster would emerge, there were the hours of depression. The motionless, drunk body with the sad, hurt, lonely eyes. Looking into these eyes I could see the traumatized and abused child that exaf once was.
It was the compassion I had for this child, the compassion for the person behind the disease and the lack of compassion I had for myself that got me stuck.
It was the compassion I had for this child, the compassion for the person behind the disease and the lack of compassion I had for myself that got me stuck.
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At times I had compassion for my RAH. But he was just as stuck in drinking as I was stuck in codependent behaviors. The circular nature of both us being caught in patterns ate away my compassion. Last year during his crisis he was repeating behaviors from 2007. I finally realized that he had not changed, but I had. I was not going back there. As I read more I realized we are both codependent. During some of these moments I had compassion for him because I could grasp why his past could be driving factors for some of his core behavior patterns.
But compassion for me? Not so much. Maybe I need to write that word at the top of my step 4 journal. It might temper my type A judgements. One can't download software on how to deal with an A. I did my best.
I fear for me compassion would twist into martyrdom. With A as my focus, many of my best intentions sort of warped. Now I am much better on focusing on me, but I am lonely. Every time I express this, my RAH does not get it. He may never get it. I may never get an amends. So for now I keep the focus on myself with a wary glance to be sure he is still sober. Still sober? OK he is on his path. Stay on my own path.
But compassion for me? Not so much. Maybe I need to write that word at the top of my step 4 journal. It might temper my type A judgements. One can't download software on how to deal with an A. I did my best.
I fear for me compassion would twist into martyrdom. With A as my focus, many of my best intentions sort of warped. Now I am much better on focusing on me, but I am lonely. Every time I express this, my RAH does not get it. He may never get it. I may never get an amends. So for now I keep the focus on myself with a wary glance to be sure he is still sober. Still sober? OK he is on his path. Stay on my own path.
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I'm struggling with this and turning it around in my mind.
Compassion and guilt get tangled for me sometimes. Compassion for the lost soul AXH is and guilt that I left him. Compassion and guilt for me are both feelings.
Rationally, I can see that alcoholism is a disease.
Rationally, I can see that I could not do a damn thing to get him to stop drinking.
Rationally, I can see that it's not my fault he's still drinking.
Rationally, I can see that he would still be drinking if I had stayed.
Rationally, I can see that he would probably have killed me if I had stayed.
Emotionally? I'm terrified of this man and yet I feel guilt over leaving. It makes no sense.
I have days when I can feel compassion. But the more my girls start talking about what he did to them when I wasn't around, the more my compassion shrivels and the more my anger takes over.
What an alcoholic can inflict on their family makes them unfit to even deserve compassion. In AXH's case, cruel and unusual punishment would be too good. He'll never go on trial for what he did to us. He'll never get to reap the consequences. But compassion isn't earned. It's freely given. Compassion given doesn't say a thing about the person it's given to, only about the person giving it. And I'm not a good enough person to give active compassion the way people normally think of it.
AXH and I once discussed the biblical charge to "love your enemy." He said there was no way God could really ask that of us, because God is realistic about our abilities. He said what the passage meant is that we shouldn't actively make life more difficult for other people because we dislike them; so "love your enemy" really means "leave people you hate alone."
That is the compassion I am extending to him today.
I moved to get away from his threats to my life. He keeps doing everything in his (ever decreasing) might to make his children's and my life a living hell. Even from a couple of states away.
I will try to refrain from buying champagne the day I hear he has died. Meanwhile, I will leave him alone. That's the compassion I have.
Compassion and guilt get tangled for me sometimes. Compassion for the lost soul AXH is and guilt that I left him. Compassion and guilt for me are both feelings.
Rationally, I can see that alcoholism is a disease.
Rationally, I can see that I could not do a damn thing to get him to stop drinking.
Rationally, I can see that it's not my fault he's still drinking.
Rationally, I can see that he would still be drinking if I had stayed.
Rationally, I can see that he would probably have killed me if I had stayed.
Emotionally? I'm terrified of this man and yet I feel guilt over leaving. It makes no sense.
I have days when I can feel compassion. But the more my girls start talking about what he did to them when I wasn't around, the more my compassion shrivels and the more my anger takes over.
What an alcoholic can inflict on their family makes them unfit to even deserve compassion. In AXH's case, cruel and unusual punishment would be too good. He'll never go on trial for what he did to us. He'll never get to reap the consequences. But compassion isn't earned. It's freely given. Compassion given doesn't say a thing about the person it's given to, only about the person giving it. And I'm not a good enough person to give active compassion the way people normally think of it.
AXH and I once discussed the biblical charge to "love your enemy." He said there was no way God could really ask that of us, because God is realistic about our abilities. He said what the passage meant is that we shouldn't actively make life more difficult for other people because we dislike them; so "love your enemy" really means "leave people you hate alone."
That is the compassion I am extending to him today.
I moved to get away from his threats to my life. He keeps doing everything in his (ever decreasing) might to make his children's and my life a living hell. Even from a couple of states away.
I will try to refrain from buying champagne the day I hear he has died. Meanwhile, I will leave him alone. That's the compassion I have.
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So far, the compassion is thing is sort of making me laugh at all the silliness.
But that sure beats being angry.
in the OP article, above, it is strange to the reverse version of "The Enemy" from my view of the The Enemy when I started reading the AA Big Book.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-big-book.html
But that sure beats being angry.
in the OP article, above, it is strange to the reverse version of "The Enemy" from my view of the The Enemy when I started reading the AA Big Book.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-big-book.html
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Earthworm is right about when you're in the thick of things with the A compassion is the furthest thing from your mind and not until you remove yourself from the whirlwind can you begin to see them with compassion and pity. For the last few years of our marriage I couldn't let myself view him with compassion because I was afraid that would keep me still with him enabling and going down with him! It's been almost 3 yrs since the divorce and I talk to him often and even see him as long as when I do he's sober if not I leave. It's been years since we've actually had normal conversations between the two of us, now we have them and it's nice. I know the inevitable that he will die soon but until that day happens I will enjoy the glimpses of what he use to be, mourn what could have been and stay enough removed so I can keep living.
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Originally Posted by fedup3 
Earthworm is right about when you're in the thick of things with the A compassion is the furthest thing from your mind and not until you remove yourself from the whirlwind can you begin to see them with compassion and pity.
For the last few years of our marriage I couldn't let myself view him with compassion because I was afraid that would keep me still with him enabling and going down with him!
"I can't pick a T" (trying to get me involved),
"I need a new car" (while refusing to work),
"I can't afford T" (while taking/hiding money and trying to change the receipts)
"I can't afford my special lunch groceries" (playing with her eating disorder)
"I am going to relapse, if we do not pull the kids out of school and move closer to my job." (yeah, no sh1t. Really. 9 months later and she is switching jobs, anyway)
LOT longer list, and most done with Fits and Drama.
I became SO disgusted and detached and despairing to stop enabling . . . that I quit Caring. No Compassion. Caring -- the 4th C, that we think we Cannot huh?
While *we* cannot Cure, Cause or Cure . . . we can still Care.
Hard balance, it seems.
It's been almost 3 yrs since the divorce and I talk to him often and even see him as long as when I do he's sober if not I leave. It's been years since we've actually had normal conversations between the two of us, now we have them and it's nice. I know the inevitable that he will die soon but until that day happens I will enjoy the glimpses of what he use to be, mourn what could have been and stay enough removed so I can keep living.
And yeah, the straight talking thing -- did it this morning.
High COUNTER intuitive for me.
But that was also some Step Sponsor advice. Since what you think your best thinking and behaviors are -- is not working -- try Countering Yourself, upfront.
So normally -- or what has become normal since she returned from Rehab -- is that I am very guarded. This morning I was just all nice, straight, and genuine normal. Daughter said that was followed by Mrs. Hammer coming to her and doing some Crazy Talk regarding Dad (me). Funny connections in that land over there.
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Upon reading the definition of compassion, I am not sure if this is what we should feel for an A.
Compassion (kəmˈpćʃən) —n: a feeling of distress and pity for the suffering or misfortune of another, often including the desire to alleviate it
I don't want to take on "a feeling of distress or pity for the A". We all know that the desire to alleviate it is not good for us. I think what we need to look for is forgiveness. I always thought forgiveness was just saying everything the other person had done should be forgotten and their card marked clean. But forgiveness is for you. It has helped to calm my soul. I am still working on forgiveness for what he puts my kids through but that is another story.....
4MyBoys
Compassion (kəmˈpćʃən) —n: a feeling of distress and pity for the suffering or misfortune of another, often including the desire to alleviate it
I don't want to take on "a feeling of distress or pity for the A". We all know that the desire to alleviate it is not good for us. I think what we need to look for is forgiveness. I always thought forgiveness was just saying everything the other person had done should be forgotten and their card marked clean. But forgiveness is for you. It has helped to calm my soul. I am still working on forgiveness for what he puts my kids through but that is another story.....
4MyBoys
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well. . . . .
Good Point. Maybe it is just for me, or something.
Because I have become pretty much A-hole, myself.
Sort of like . . ..
haha -- stupid bytch -- ya drink, ya die.
And THAT is not Good. Not Good for Her, Not Good for Me.
Good Point. Maybe it is just for me, or something.
Because I have become pretty much A-hole, myself.
Sort of like . . ..
haha -- stupid bytch -- ya drink, ya die.
And THAT is not Good. Not Good for Her, Not Good for Me.
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This post breaks my heart. Ack! I could ball like a baby reading these posts. I want to say run away from these A's that make your life so miserable. But I know there is a lot more to your stories that I don't know. So no advice or even an opinion here. Just just saying this A's heart breaks for every one of you. Prayers your way.
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Raider -- there are As and As, you know?
I grew up with a next door aunt and uncle who were both As. They ran a business until they retired and I guess their drinking went off the charts at that point. He died without ever finding recovery and she's working her way there.
They had a lot of the "common" traits of alcoholics: Prioritized drinking over other things, lied, hid bottles, drove drunk, etc. But they were never abusive. They were loving, caring people who were alcoholics.
So there are times when I feel like I'm in the wrong place talking about AXH here. He is an alcoholic, but there are days I think that might simply be the cloak covering all his other problems.
Not all alcoholics are abusive. And I'm very aware of that. One of my very best girlfriends is a recovering alcoholic. I've worked with numerous active and recovering alcoholics. I know that "alcoholic" does not equal "evil"... in my life, in my marriage, it did. It's like the drinking uncovered the demons he was trying to hide.
I grew up with a next door aunt and uncle who were both As. They ran a business until they retired and I guess their drinking went off the charts at that point. He died without ever finding recovery and she's working her way there.
They had a lot of the "common" traits of alcoholics: Prioritized drinking over other things, lied, hid bottles, drove drunk, etc. But they were never abusive. They were loving, caring people who were alcoholics.
So there are times when I feel like I'm in the wrong place talking about AXH here. He is an alcoholic, but there are days I think that might simply be the cloak covering all his other problems.
Not all alcoholics are abusive. And I'm very aware of that. One of my very best girlfriends is a recovering alcoholic. I've worked with numerous active and recovering alcoholics. I know that "alcoholic" does not equal "evil"... in my life, in my marriage, it did. It's like the drinking uncovered the demons he was trying to hide.
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Originally Posted by 4MyBoys
Upon reading the definition of compassion, I am not sure if this is what we should feel for an A.
Compassion (kəmˈpćʃən) n: a feeling of distress and pity for the suffering or misfortune of another, often including the desire to alleviate it
I don't want to take on "a feeling of distress or pity for the A". We all know that the desire to alleviate it is not good for us. I think what we need to look for is forgiveness. I always thought forgiveness was just saying everything the other person had done should be forgotten and their card marked clean. But forgiveness is for you. It has helped to calm my soul. I am still working on forgiveness for what he puts my kids through but that is another story.....
4MyBoys
Compassion (kəmˈpćʃən) n: a feeling of distress and pity for the suffering or misfortune of another, often including the desire to alleviate it
I don't want to take on "a feeling of distress or pity for the A". We all know that the desire to alleviate it is not good for us. I think what we need to look for is forgiveness. I always thought forgiveness was just saying everything the other person had done should be forgotten and their card marked clean. But forgiveness is for you. It has helped to calm my soul. I am still working on forgiveness for what he puts my kids through but that is another story.....
4MyBoys
To have compassion implies action (to me), whereas empathy allows me to understand & recognize his emotions/issues separately from mine.
Kind of like I'm just watching it on a Big Movie Screen & he is simply the main character in the flick. I feel for what I see him struggling with, (which provides me understanding & allows me to compartmentalize "his" vs "mine") but I am removed or detached from actually fixing it or jumping into action. I'm just observing through empathy, not contributing to his pain or problem solving in any way.
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I had to learn to have compassion for myself, and empathy for him. I could not do either until he was separated.
I honestly hate pondering the question because I feel like most of us need to be trained to put *less* focus on the alcoholic, and not more.
I honestly hate pondering the question because I feel like most of us need to be trained to put *less* focus on the alcoholic, and not more.
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I think taking that joke as a slam at al-anon was one person's perspective. Perhaps another is that this compassion is how al-anon people tend to stay in these relationships and fall for the same old stuff time and time again.
My honest reply is that it is easy to have empathy, very easy. It doesn't look like fun to pass out on the floor to me, some drinker's opinions may differ.
But the crux of it is that it is fine for people to be self-destructive, as long as it doesn't affect me. In this case, it does affect me. That changes the entire thing. Then it's no longer just about them, is it? Now they're stepping on my serenity.
That's the bottom line when someone else's drinking is affecting me. When it's not affecting me, I can go off on my merry way, empathizing that they do whatever self-destructive behavior a person may do.
My honest reply is that it is easy to have empathy, very easy. It doesn't look like fun to pass out on the floor to me, some drinker's opinions may differ.
But the crux of it is that it is fine for people to be self-destructive, as long as it doesn't affect me. In this case, it does affect me. That changes the entire thing. Then it's no longer just about them, is it? Now they're stepping on my serenity.
That's the bottom line when someone else's drinking is affecting me. When it's not affecting me, I can go off on my merry way, empathizing that they do whatever self-destructive behavior a person may do.
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After reading the post this morning about compassion today I've struggled with my recent split with ExABF. The past two weeks I've kept busy and focused on myself and my kids and felt relief, sure i've done the right thing. This has thrown me and I have been thinking a lot about compassion for someone who I loved but who treated me so badly. I'm not the best at labelling feelings but today I feel sorry for the sober bf hidden deep in that alcoholic swamp of misery, self loathing and anger who doesn't have the strength to fight back right now. I feel nothing but anger, disgust and I feel cheated by the alcoholic bf. I was glad to read where I will end up from members further on in their own recovery but I'll admit this topic has thrown me. Tomorrow is another day - I feel like I've undone all my hard work today by thinking about it so much.
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I have been thinking a lot about compassion for someone who I loved but who treated me so badly.
You don't HAVE to feel compassion for a person who treated you like crap.
I know we talk a lot about forgiveness and not carrying resentment around and all that jazz but you know what? That's down the line. Asking someone to be compassionate and forgiving when they're still in horrible pain is sort of like asking someone with a broken leg to run a marathon.
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Originally Posted by Florence
I had to learn to have compassion for myself, and empathy for him. I could not do either until he was separated.
I honestly hate pondering the question because I feel like most of us need to be trained to put *less* focus on the alcoholic, and not more.
I honestly hate pondering the question because I feel like most of us need to be trained to put *less* focus on the alcoholic, and not more.
I have a hard time mustering up any compassion for my ex, who is working a recovery for a couple years now. It is definitely a rabbit hole for me anyway so I'm very guarded.
Empathy - yes. That makes more sense. Moving from anger, bitterness, resentment and hate - to empathy felt like an enormous leap in my recovery and I welcomed it.
As time goes on my feelings are inching further and further towards disdain. I don't like it. I'm not sure what to do with that really but it doesn't feel good. I don't want to be that person.
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Originally Posted by BlueSkies1
My honest reply is that it is easy to have empathy, very easy. It doesn't look like fun to pass out on the floor to me....
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