Cheating on your Alcoholic Partner

Old 01-22-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BeYourself1 View Post
For example, as I noted above, I wanted to feel wanted; I wanted validation, both physical and emotional. But, aside from the physical need, doesn't that contrast with the "goal" (I can't think of a better word here) of not needing others to validate our emotions? Does that make sense?

Thanks again guys, really
jmho, I think THAT is normal.

It is trying to get that from an A that is abnormal.

A bigger Big Book noted -- "It is Not Good for the Man (or Woman) to Be Alone."

When I get done with the Steps etc., I suspect we (Mrs. Hammer and I) may be having some real serious issues on that. Dunno. God's Will and God's Way.

But I do not plan on living in dysfunction forever.
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BeYourself1 View Post

One thing I am struggling to understand is the relationship between having needs met by a partner and not relying on others to meet one's own needs. For example, as I noted above, I wanted to feel wanted; I wanted validation, both physical and emotional. But, aside from the physical need, doesn't that contrast with the "goal" (I can't think of a better word here) of not needing others to validate our emotions? Does that make sense?

Thanks again guys, really
I totally get this ... makes complete sense what you are asking. I ask myself the same thing. With my emotional affair I wanted that validation - physically and emotionally. We were never physical - he put the brakes on, but I would have been willing as much as I hate to admit that. I hadn't felt wanted or desired for years and years in my marriage. I am grateful that he did put the brakes on ... in some ways but in some ways I would like to feel that gratification - and yes that sounds awful but I was so numb when my hubby hit rock bottom and I blocked all else out .... It did make me realize that there was a side of me that was not dead and that I do indeed need to feel wanted and desired. I get that rAH is not capable of this right now and I have to give that some time, but it is something that I want in our relationship - amongst other changes that will have to happen as well. I am only 40 ... lots of life left in there yet

It completely contrasts with us not needing others to feel validated ... but I think we are in such a state of yearning and loneliness that we just don't have it in us to validate ourselves. Once we are stronger and feeling better about ourselves we should be able to think more clearly and do just that. It is so very, very hard to admit ... but we are not bad people because we made a mistake. (((hugs)))
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:07 PM
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BeYourself-

Less about the use of a substance and more directly about affairs was a book called After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring.

I am not trying to make a statement about if you had an affair or not, but I learned a lot from the book because it talked about typical feelings that each person had once the truth came out. It helped me make a lot more sense of things.

I agree that my hubby's relationship and mine was not in a good place when he did what he did.

My learning curve for myself though, was why did I stick it out, when it was not meeting my needs? Why did I not toss in the towel so much earlier when I knew it was not working? Why did I have to allow myself to have so much hurt.

Regardless of who did what and the technical definitions of it all, that is a repeated piece I keep coming around to in my learning.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:14 PM
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I think when you feel whole, feel happy and secure with yourself you attract a similar whole person so the relationship is a healthy one and you both enhance each other together.

When one does not feel secure or happy with themselves they will attract similar and then you have two broken people looking towards the other to make them feel whole and secure and happy.

If we are not comfortable with ourselves, think we are fat or ugly we will constantly be looking at our broken partners to tell us we are not fat and that we are pretty. Make us feel wanted and secure. But the other broken person is unable to full fill our needs because they have too many of their own needs they cannot fill.

Feelings and emotions are what addicts/alcoholics run from and what Codie's need the most from the partners they pick- constant validation to fulfill the insecure void.

Thus the old saying.......don't go to the hardware store for bread.

Making ourselves whole is our true way to happiness and healthy relationships.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammer View Post

I was going over my Step 4 book this morning at breakfast, and it covers this type stuff, and why I was thinking about it.

I am not really to Step 4 in my Step Study Group, but I have a bad habit of reading ahead. Way ahead. Read my ODAAT book (One Day At A Time) in one day. So I have tried to quit that type stuff, but I really, really, really want to get an A+ in my Step Study Group. (Yes I am FULLY Aware Just How Totally ******** That Is), and I figured out in College that if read ahead in 5 books for any given class, I would know more than the Professor. [Note to self: Must-Stop-Brain-Clouds-From-Blocking-Out-Sunshine-To-Heart, Dumbass]
You sound like tons of fun Hammer. Just tons.

You are allowed to do fun stuff just for you. You do know that, I hope?

This recovery thing doesn't mean one must concentrate on it 24/7. It infiltrates most everything I do, but it doesn't dominate. You only get one shot at this life.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lulu39 View Post
You sound like [you are just about a full-on nut-case yourself,] Hammer. Just [freakin nuts].

You are allowed to do fun stuff just for you. You do know that, I hope?

This recovery thing doesn't mean one must concentrate on it 24/7. It infiltrates most everything I do, but it doesn't dominate. You only get one shot at this life.
Fixed that a little, I suspect.

The guy in the mirror can get a little intense sometimes.

In the Army I picked my "job" by the hardest, longest school. So I had to do the top in that. College major and studies the same. Same on being a "perfect" officer. It is hard on me, but only seems to be hard on me, and gives pretty good results for those around.

Really no joke about the nickname of Only 2 Speeds thing -- Hard and Harder.

But no, really no. IF something needs to be done, there only is hard and harder. All I really have to work with is me. And for better or worse, that is me. At least for now. My acceptance.

My first Steps Sponsor was too easy in that regard. Not blaming him, at all. He gave me a practice motto -- "If a job is worth doing, it is worth doing Half-Ass" -- with the good intent of calming me down.

But it really just not fit, and I fell off the Steps doing Half-Ass.

I have to be like the pig going to breakfast table -- yunno that allegory? The Chicken contributes to breakfast (eggs), but the Pig is fully committed (bacon).

Just the nature of the guy I am dealing with. I will get through the Steps by June, re-evaluate life then.

But thanks so much, Lulu. Yunno I really value you in my life.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:53 AM
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Wowzers Hammer....you would have been a fantastic Puritan!
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Wowzers Hammer....you would have been a fantastic Puritan!
Yeah, on the things I really get into -- there just is no Half-Way.

Suppose I sort of make up (or also mis-allocate) for that by treating most other things in life as a joke.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:33 AM
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There are men that are a danger to me. They are driven, intelligent, witty. It is always their mind that catches my attention first though I like them lanky. I was totally enthralled with one of these types at my work 10 years ago. My AH knew this person had captured my attention and it was ugly.

Of course that meant I was not getting witty stimulation among other basic needs from my spouse. He spent most nights drinking while I've continued to be a seeker. I am trying to be patient now and remember he is learning how to live without 'his best friend'. I have lived and grown a lot in the past 20 years without numbing alcohol, so mentally I'm ready to dig in and get some marital counseling. He's not ready. It is frustrating to be still at such different places in recovery. But honestly there are issues I can work on in the meantime on my own.

But when I heard one of my types had gotten a divorce, I stayed far away and made a mental note to never take a job where I would work directly with him. Available MIT engineers that run make me run the other way. And when one of my types appeared in my usual Al Anon group I knew it was time to find a second group. Best to avoid temptation when you are vulnerable and haven't had physical intimacy for quite awhile. I have a 20 year marriage to systematically assess. My spouse is my best friend, but I was Codie enough to put up with 20 years of a relationship triangle where drinking out valued me. Best to figure this out in my current relationship and see what will happen than crash and burn with another. But there are definitely moments when I wonder about alternatives. I wish I knew of more couples who really make it through because I could use some modern fairy tale endings to keep my faith.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:53 AM
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Yes, I cheated on my AH while we were married. I still try to minimize it to myself, that it was "just" an emotional affair, ummmm.... except for that one time when we kissed..... oh and then after AH and I were separated; well that doesn't count because, ummm, we were separated. Oh and my affair partner was married, but "that's his problem, not mine".

The back story is more complicated, and provides plenty more opportunities for me to minimize and deny that what I did was wrong. I did LOTS of step work on this with my sponsor in Alanon. I accept responsibility for my part in it; I made my amends; and it is part of my past....

It was something I needed to get through, to get where I am today. It's almost indescribable the emotions I was feeling during that time. It was like I had woken up from years of being asleep, or even dead. It helped me realize that I had to end my marriage; not to pursue a relationship with my affair partner - but because I was so strongly attracted to him that I knew my marriage was dead. Somehow, the affair gave me the courage and confidence to move forward. A silver lining so to speak.

But, that's where I start to justify, minimize, and deny.....
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nowinsituation View Post
Yes, I cheated on my AH while we were married. I still try to minimize it to myself, that it was "just" an emotional affair, ummmm.... except for that one time when we kissed..... oh and then after AH and I were separated; well that doesn't count because, ummm, we were separated. Oh and my affair partner was married, but "that's his problem, not mine".

The back story is more complicated, and provides plenty more opportunities for me to minimize and deny that what I did was wrong. I did LOTS of step work on this with my sponsor in Alanon. I accept responsibility for my part in it; I made my amends; and it is part of my past....

It was something I needed to get through, to get where I am today. It's almost indescribable the emotions I was feeling during that time. It was like I had woken up from years of being asleep, or even dead. It helped me realize that I had to end my marriage; not to pursue a relationship with my affair partner - but because I was so strongly attracted to him that I knew my marriage was dead. Somehow, the affair gave me the courage and confidence to move forward. A silver lining so to speak.

But, that's where I start to justify, minimize, and deny.....
The bold part is the part that scares me ... but also makes me think as well ... my attraction to the man I had an emotional affair with feels so very strong. It makes me think that maybe my marriage is dead and it is crazy for trying to convince myself to even give it a try. The other side of me thinks that it is crazy not to try ... I am so very, very confused and so very, very unhappy in life right now.

Today my doctor finally felt a need to put me on something to see if this helps me start to clear my head a little from the weight of depression. I was hesitant but she made some good points. Maybe if I clear this depression I will be less confused?? I don't know ... I don't feel like I know anything anymore ...

rAH comes home from rehab next Thursday. I am so anxious about his return. I hear things from so many sides in my family. It makes me worry more. I just don't know what to expect or what to think. All I know is that I do need to focus on me more and that is tough with all of the things we still have to face ahead of us ...
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:28 AM
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One thing I am struggling to understand is the relationship between having needs met by a partner and not relying on others to meet one's own needs. For example, as I noted above, I wanted to feel wanted; I wanted validation, both physical and emotional. But, aside from the physical need, doesn't that contrast with the "goal" (I can't think of a better word here) of not needing others to validate our emotions? Does that make sense?

this is a really good question. as autonomous beings, ultimately we rely upon ourselves for self respect, validation, and worth. however, the whole point of being IN a close/intimate relationship with another is love and companionship. we LIKE the other person and they LIKE us!! we like their sense of humor, wit, lazer beam blue eyes and that they have the nicest @ss on the planet (drawing from personal experience here!). we like that they like our ****-eyed view of the world, our love of sports, our caring ways and that we NEVER fail to surprise them, still, 11 years later. we ENJOY each other....we GET something from BEING together. we feel welcomed like a favored guest and comfortable like being in our favorite pj's.

a relationship void of the above is not a RELATIONSHIP anymore...it's two people sharing space and in conflict, or simple lack of caring anymore. if there is addiction or abuse it becomes more like a stark cold jail cell. and we start looking for anyone who might the key. then one day we reach into our own pocket and realize we had the key the whole time! and we don't NEED another to bail us out...we can extricate ourselves from the cold loveless void and rely again upon ourselves to prop us up and heal.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:17 AM
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One thing I am struggling to understand is the relationship between having needs met by a partner and not relying on others to meet one's own needs. For example, as I noted above, I wanted to feel wanted; I wanted validation, both physical and emotional. But, aside from the physical need, doesn't that contrast with the "goal" (I can't think of a better word here) of not needing others to validate our emotions? Does that make sense?

In an ideal world we are all fully whole when we meet our partner. The relationship is just icing on an already fine cake that doesn't need any icing to be good, but it just makes it better. Theoretically.
In reality none of us even know fully what it means to be whole. It would be an interesting topic to explore at length. What we understand is that we are in good standing with ourselves, our community, our families, our employment. Issues have been dealt with and are resolved or nearly so.

I think in reality that validation from others is necessary. No man is an island, stuff.
And then there's using another person as a crutch. That's partially why rebounds fail.
I remember when I met my husband I told him --I don't NEED you, I WANT you. I think that outlook was healthy.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueSkies1 View Post
I don't NEED you, I WANT you.
ohhh.

THAT one.

That one has MY vote for the Best SR Pick-up Line.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
ohhh.

THAT one.

That one has MY vote for the Best SR Pick-up Line.
Haha! (I read somewhere today that LOL is now out)

Let me clarify, Hammer. I didn't say that when I initially met him. I said that some months, or even close to a year into the relationship.

But anyone may borrow it for a pick up line if they so choose. I don't have it copyrighted. Just cite your source, me.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:17 PM
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I had an affair.

The perverse rationalization was that if my personal life was just a little happier, I could stand to stay married. As far as I know, AH never knew. I was very careful to keep it a secret. There was no reason to confess to him; I knew it would hurt him more than it would relieve me. It lasted about two years.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:36 PM
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I think its common to find escape when things aren't working well in a relationship due it to an A, or just the normal crap in any of them. WE can always escape to our minds, sometimes fantasizing about another person where the current problems aren't there.

Thinking about it and doing it totally different things. When RAH relapsed I did think about it - really just to escape the that situation. I did not, because I am aware affairs and cheating never end a good place. I simply didn't need to add more destruction to my life.

Much better to resolve the problem with in the existing relationship or move on if you can't.
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:52 AM
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I've just realized something, even if I wanted to cheat, I don't even know who I'd cheat on my partner WITH. I'm not really close enough to anyone else of the opposite sex to really try anything, lol.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:18 PM
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Choublak- you are too funny!

I just want to clarify that I never actually thought that anything was going to happen. I know I was in the wrong to even go out with him, but I thought I would be able to have one drink and leave. Instead, it was just so nice to feel wanted and be treated kindly that one drink turned into one bottle of wine. And, before I knew it, there was a kiss. I know, I shouldn't have put myself in that position. But, what can I do now? Learn and move on. I have learned many lessons in the past year (most the hard way) and certainly don't plan on learning them again!
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