Have I lost respect for myself?
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: indiana
Posts: 158
Well, I've gained a little respect back over the past week 
I met with a therapist and really got some things worked through. It's time to raise the level of expectation and accountability if my AW is going to stay in our home. First and foremost, $$$.
- She makes 30% of the household income, she will need to pay 30% of the household bills. If she thinks it's too much maybe she'll be more aware of utilities usage, frivolous expenses, etc. (She currently pays 10% and I pay 90)
- Her drinking during the week has led to bad behavior and missing work. No alcohol is allowed in our home during the workweek. Weekends still need to demonstrate moderation. (I know this is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter. It's what I require for a safe and healthy environment during the week, if she fails, she leaves).
- She has started inappropriate relationships with multiple single men at her workplace. She has admitted she won’t accept promotion because she'd have to supervise them. She needs to begin searching for a new job where promotional opportunities are available and she isn't exposed to men she "fell for". (She needs to advance in her career to improve the standard of living of our household).
Does all that make sense? Is it fair? What am I missing? This is literally laying out what I need to be happy and stay in this marriage so I want to get it right. Feedback please!
I met with a therapist and really got some things worked through. It's time to raise the level of expectation and accountability if my AW is going to stay in our home. First and foremost, $$$.- She makes 30% of the household income, she will need to pay 30% of the household bills. If she thinks it's too much maybe she'll be more aware of utilities usage, frivolous expenses, etc. (She currently pays 10% and I pay 90)
- Her drinking during the week has led to bad behavior and missing work. No alcohol is allowed in our home during the workweek. Weekends still need to demonstrate moderation. (I know this is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter. It's what I require for a safe and healthy environment during the week, if she fails, she leaves).
- She has started inappropriate relationships with multiple single men at her workplace. She has admitted she won’t accept promotion because she'd have to supervise them. She needs to begin searching for a new job where promotional opportunities are available and she isn't exposed to men she "fell for". (She needs to advance in her career to improve the standard of living of our household).
Does all that make sense? Is it fair? What am I missing? This is literally laying out what I need to be happy and stay in this marriage so I want to get it right. Feedback please!
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by steelman1649 
Well, I've gained a little respect back over the past week I met with a therapist and really got some things worked through. It's time to raise the level of expectation and accountability if my AW is going to stay in our home. First and foremost, $$$.
- She makes 30% of the household income, she will need to pay 30% of the household bills. If she thinks it's too much maybe she'll be more aware of utilities usage, frivolous expenses, etc. (She currently pays 10% and I pay 90)
- Her drinking during the week has led to bad behavior and missing work. No alcohol is allowed in our home during the workweek. Weekends still need to demonstrate moderation. (I know this is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter. It's what I require for a safe and healthy environment during the week, if she fails, she leaves).
- She has started inappropriate relationships with multiple single men at her workplace. She has admitted she won’t accept promotion because she'd have to supervise them. She needs to begin searching for a new job where promotional opportunities are available and she isn't exposed to men she "fell for". (She needs to advance in her career to improve the standard of living of our household).
Does all that make sense? Is it fair? What am I missing? This is literally laying out what I need to be happy and stay in this marriage so I want to get it right. Feedback please!
I met with a therapist and really got some things worked through. It's time to raise the level of expectation and accountability if my AW is going to stay in our home. First and foremost, $$$.- She makes 30% of the household income, she will need to pay 30% of the household bills. If she thinks it's too much maybe she'll be more aware of utilities usage, frivolous expenses, etc. (She currently pays 10% and I pay 90)
- Her drinking during the week has led to bad behavior and missing work. No alcohol is allowed in our home during the workweek. Weekends still need to demonstrate moderation. (I know this is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter. It's what I require for a safe and healthy environment during the week, if she fails, she leaves).
- She has started inappropriate relationships with multiple single men at her workplace. She has admitted she won’t accept promotion because she'd have to supervise them. She needs to begin searching for a new job where promotional opportunities are available and she isn't exposed to men she "fell for". (She needs to advance in her career to improve the standard of living of our household).
Does all that make sense? Is it fair? What am I missing? This is literally laying out what I need to be happy and stay in this marriage so I want to get it right. Feedback please!
1. You are delivering these requests to her without her input in therapy (I assume). I would be not thrilled if my man came to me laying down new expectations he and his therapist came up with. In a healthy (haha) relationship these things should be decided together.
2. You are changing the paradigm of the relationship without her input. You have been supporting her and her lifestyle and you are now saying she must put in more. I agree that she should, but you already established that you are supporting her. She won't like that shift and if you two came up with your financial arrangement before, she needs to be part of the decision to change it.
3.Telling her what she needs to do career-wise is very controlling. I would be VERY unhappy if my man told me what i needed to do with my career (i.e. change jobs, take promotions, etc...) Those are her choices, like it or lump it.
From what you write, you are giving her expectations to meet rather than setting boundaries for yourself. If you want to divorce, you can without creating a list of demands for her.
Also, you are not dealing with a healthy spouse. She is an active A, so don't expect reasonable reactions.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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problem i see with 1, 2 and 3 is the SHE NEEDS TO part. one thing we know, so far SHE isn't much for rules. she doesn't see the NEED to
a) pay her fair share
b) quit or even moderate drinking (which is impossible)
c) quit flirting and carrying on with other men
d) get another job or advance her career
until the DRINKING stops, all the rest is just a waste of time. SHE doesn't give a sh!t, steel. why should she? til now she's gotten away with it ALL. she does what she wants, when she wants. she isn't concerned about contributing to the household, because she is not INVESTED IN the household. it's her crashpad. she isn't concerned about her career, as it interferes with the drinking thing. if she was at all committed to the "marriage" she wouldn't be getting herself involved with other men.
i'll just be blunt. you may want to stay in the "marriage" but she bailed on that a LONGGGGG time ago, pal. she jumped the relation-ship already, you're rowing the boat by yourself.
a) pay her fair share
b) quit or even moderate drinking (which is impossible)
c) quit flirting and carrying on with other men
d) get another job or advance her career
until the DRINKING stops, all the rest is just a waste of time. SHE doesn't give a sh!t, steel. why should she? til now she's gotten away with it ALL. she does what she wants, when she wants. she isn't concerned about contributing to the household, because she is not INVESTED IN the household. it's her crashpad. she isn't concerned about her career, as it interferes with the drinking thing. if she was at all committed to the "marriage" she wouldn't be getting herself involved with other men.
i'll just be blunt. you may want to stay in the "marriage" but she bailed on that a LONGGGGG time ago, pal. she jumped the relation-ship already, you're rowing the boat by yourself.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: indiana
Posts: 158
Thanks for the input! She refuses to go to therapy for obvious reasons, and I will make her part of the conversation to pay more toward bills. I just want to make sure understands how little she's helping me!
As for the job part, it's the toughest. I have to deal with the fact that she still works closely everyday with the person she left her husband for...and she is placing "awkwardness" with these men over ensuring her family has a better future...
As for the job part, it's the toughest. I have to deal with the fact that she still works closely everyday with the person she left her husband for...and she is placing "awkwardness" with these men over ensuring her family has a better future...
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Location: Midwest, USA
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WRT what Anvilhead and MissFixIt said, I know that I made similar "rules." My STBXAH somehow always managed to shirk real responsibility, lean on the wallets and goodwill and sympathies of others, evade and obscure his bad work behavior, and made half of what I made and pay not even that into the communal pot. He also had a slew of inappropriate work relationships that should have told me he had terrible boundaries, none of which could be fixed by me setting up boundaries after the fact.
Boundaries are really for us, you don't have boundaries "at" somebody. You can't tell someone how to live and behave and expect they will comply. People just don't work that way. Boundaries are for you, about what you are willing to deal with in a relationship of any kind. Making boundaries that someone else has to follow or else is just another way of controlling their behavior. This is another ultimatum.
Frankly I had to see this process through before I was able to accept that the partner I had was not the one I wanted or needed, and how real boundaries functioned in my house. I just know I had to live it to understand it. So, godspeed, man.
Boundaries are really for us, you don't have boundaries "at" somebody. You can't tell someone how to live and behave and expect they will comply. People just don't work that way. Boundaries are for you, about what you are willing to deal with in a relationship of any kind. Making boundaries that someone else has to follow or else is just another way of controlling their behavior. This is another ultimatum.
Frankly I had to see this process through before I was able to accept that the partner I had was not the one I wanted or needed, and how real boundaries functioned in my house. I just know I had to live it to understand it. So, godspeed, man.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: indiana
Posts: 158
Everytime I re-read through this full thread I get so laser focused on what I want, I want her to leave. Maybe I need to print it out and take it home with me and just read it over and over until I'm ready to tell her to get out.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I don't think these are unreasonable at all, but I am a level headed non-addicted person. The thing is, alcoholics cannot drink "during the week", it never works. So you can set these up, even as ultimatiums, but expect for it to fail and for her to freak out or lie, one or the other.
So I guess my question is this. So you tell her, I need you to contribute 30% of the household expenses because I am contributing 90% at this time and she says ok, fine. And she does not do it...then what? Are these boundaries for you? If so, are you prepared for the fallout?
As we all sadly know, addicts are like naughty children. So...say what you mean and mean what you say. If not you get played like a fiddle.
I think it's great you are seeing a therapist and working on you. Keep it up and you will keep getting stronger and stronger so you can see how much YOU are worth!
So I guess my question is this. So you tell her, I need you to contribute 30% of the household expenses because I am contributing 90% at this time and she says ok, fine. And she does not do it...then what? Are these boundaries for you? If so, are you prepared for the fallout?
As we all sadly know, addicts are like naughty children. So...say what you mean and mean what you say. If not you get played like a fiddle.
I think it's great you are seeing a therapist and working on you. Keep it up and you will keep getting stronger and stronger so you can see how much YOU are worth!
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by steelman1649
- She makes 30% of the household income, she will need to pay 30% of the household bills. If she thinks it's too much maybe she'll be more aware of utilities usage, frivolous expenses, etc. (She currently pays 10% and I pay 90)
- Her drinking during the week has led to bad behavior and missing work. No alcohol is allowed in our home during the workweek. Weekends still need to demonstrate moderation. (I know this is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter. It's what I require for a safe and healthy environment during the week, if she fails, she leaves).
- She has started inappropriate relationships with multiple single men at her workplace. She has admitted she won’t accept promotion because she'd have to supervise them. She needs to begin searching for a new job where promotional opportunities are available and she isn't exposed to men she "fell for". (She needs to advance in her career to improve the standard of living of our household).
- Her drinking during the week has led to bad behavior and missing work. No alcohol is allowed in our home during the workweek. Weekends still need to demonstrate moderation. (I know this is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter. It's what I require for a safe and healthy environment during the week, if she fails, she leaves).
- She has started inappropriate relationships with multiple single men at her workplace. She has admitted she won’t accept promotion because she'd have to supervise them. She needs to begin searching for a new job where promotional opportunities are available and she isn't exposed to men she "fell for". (She needs to advance in her career to improve the standard of living of our household).
The crux of any healthy relationship is acceptance. Accepting people for who they are right now, as if that is never going to change, and choosing every day to move forward with that person as a partner. If you can't do that, or even if you just don't want to, it isn't a failure, it's just life, and it's too dang short to waste any of it. You don't have to feel guilty about not being on board with the way someone else chooses to spend their life. When we stay with people who are not good for us, all we are really doing is keeping ourselves from opportunities to be with people who could be.
I am sending you strength and courage -- all I can muster, because I believe you know that she will push you even further before you're through. You've never mentioned anything about her that says she is ready to be married, or to be responsible for her own problems and consequences. You deserve a real partner. I truly hope let yourself find one someday.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by steelman1649
It's time to raise the level of expectation and accountability if my AW is going to stay in our home.
It sounds like you are just buying time here. You also can't *make* her feel accountable & until she is really sober, it's unlikely she'll see any of this as anything other than threats & rules to work around.
The issue with the other men is pretty significant to me only because I never got the sense from your posts that she sees anything wrong/feels any remorse with her actions & that makes it likely (to me) that she will repeat the same behavior... regardless of WHERE she is employed.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
I don't know, Steelman...these all seem like a bunch of "rules" designed to force her into someone she isn't. Her workplace isn't the problem -- the fact that she repeatedly forms flirtatious relationships outside of your marriage is. Alcoholics can't moderate, so asking her to not drink during the week and only a little bit on the weekends is signing her up for a giant failure - how will that help anything? This list feels like a bunch of band-aids made of mist and foam. 10% vs 30%? Is 20% more contribution really going to make you happy enough to stay with someone who is always looking for more validation from other men?
The crux of any healthy relationship is acceptance. Accepting people for who they are right now, as if that is never going to change, and choosing every day to move forward with that person as a partner. If you can't do that, or even if you just don't want to, it isn't a failure, it's just life, and it's too dang short to waste any of it. You don't have to feel guilty about not being on board with the way someone else chooses to spend their life. When we stay with people who are not good for us, all we are really doing is keeping ourselves from opportunities to be with people who could be.
I am sending you strength and courage -- all I can muster, because I believe you know that she will push you even further before you're through. You've never mentioned anything about her that says she is ready to be married, or to be responsible for her own problems and consequences. You deserve a real partner. I truly hope let yourself find one someday.
The crux of any healthy relationship is acceptance. Accepting people for who they are right now, as if that is never going to change, and choosing every day to move forward with that person as a partner. If you can't do that, or even if you just don't want to, it isn't a failure, it's just life, and it's too dang short to waste any of it. You don't have to feel guilty about not being on board with the way someone else chooses to spend their life. When we stay with people who are not good for us, all we are really doing is keeping ourselves from opportunities to be with people who could be.
I am sending you strength and courage -- all I can muster, because I believe you know that she will push you even further before you're through. You've never mentioned anything about her that says she is ready to be married, or to be responsible for her own problems and consequences. You deserve a real partner. I truly hope let yourself find one someday.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by steelman1649
You're absolutely right. I have no idea what I'm doing. These are all silly things to have to "demand" from someone. I think I might be purposefully setting her up to fail so that I can have some final validation...i am so lost.
Keep working with the therapist and you will have the strength to do what you need to do FOR YOU. In the mean time, I am doing the same!
Blessings!
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Whenever I say I am "lost" I'm usually not. Usually, I just don't like where I am.
Please don't beat yourself up about where you are or what you are doing. It's really okay to not know what the next right step is, or to not be sure. Sometimes we try to alleviate that feeling of not knowing by just doing something, anything. But sometimes it really is better to follow the old, "Don't just DO something, STAND there!" until you are really ready to move in a positive direction. The caveat is, of course, not letting yourself get caught in the other extreme of inaction despite painful consequences to yourself.
I really am rooting for you, my friend.
Please don't beat yourself up about where you are or what you are doing. It's really okay to not know what the next right step is, or to not be sure. Sometimes we try to alleviate that feeling of not knowing by just doing something, anything. But sometimes it really is better to follow the old, "Don't just DO something, STAND there!" until you are really ready to move in a positive direction. The caveat is, of course, not letting yourself get caught in the other extreme of inaction despite painful consequences to yourself.
I really am rooting for you, my friend.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: indiana
Posts: 158
I had seen some deleted text messages to an unfamilair guy this weekend. The GS3 will store some deleted sms messages if you go to the contact and hit history. Only some of the deleted texts were viewable, but a few talked about how he she told him he couldn't text her over the weekend and that it was "safer". When I asked her about it she said it was a friend from 5 years ago in high school. She said she didn't want me to see a text from him and freak out.
I told her she I wouldn't have a problem with a friend from high school sending some texts, it's the single guys at work that are the problem! The weird thing is he isn't her facebook friend and she said she doesnt know where she got his number from. FML
I told her she I wouldn't have a problem with a friend from high school sending some texts, it's the single guys at work that are the problem! The weird thing is he isn't her facebook friend and she said she doesnt know where she got his number from. FML
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Join Date: May 2012
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I wish I could remember who posted this gem originally so I could give proper credit... this is my new absolute favorite phrase:
"You don't have a problem - you have a solution that you don't like."
I have found myself using this almost as a unit of measurement more & more each day in my recovery.
"You don't have a problem - you have a solution that you don't like."
I have found myself using this almost as a unit of measurement more & more each day in my recovery.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by steelman1649
I told her she I wouldn't have a problem with a friend from high school sending some texts, it's the single guys at work that are the problem! The weird thing is he isn't her facebook friend and she said she doesnt know where she got his number from. FML
2. It's not the single guys that are the problem, it is HER behavior & HER willingness to give out her phone number & HER carrying on with the secret messaging behind your back despite repeated requests from you that she stop. She is NOT a victim to these single men stalking her, trying to disrupt her life. She has to be initiating & participating in order for them to have anything TO pursue. Trust me, if she didn't want the attention she would be a lot more willing to provide transparency & you wouldn't feel the need to search through deleted texts for justification to things you already suspect.
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