Question about Spirituality,HP etc.
I loved it.
I had a grand daughter that went vegetarian for a while. Actually she went carb-atarian, lived on sugar and junk food.
I used to tell her, do you know what they call vegetarians in the wild? Lunch.
OnawaMiniya, I have no moral issues with eating meat, we evolved to eat meat. However I do have problems with the way animals are treated in the process. Cruelty doesn't need to be part of the process.
What I find most interesting is that science has revealed that as humans our brains are wired for "God" or spirituality if you will. Now the argument is did we "evolve" to be spiritual beings or did God wire us?
Fascinating journey when we embark upon discovering what we personally believe about the Universe, God, our meaning and purpose ... deep stuff. And science says if we believe SOMETHING higher than ourselves it is good for us and our well being and happiness is heightened.
Of course, it is a huge subject and there are literally over 40,000 different Christian denominations alone that each believe they have the corner on the truth so it is not an easy path and our search and research could take some time.
Raised in an insane world by my atheistic somewhat ... no REALLY, REALLY crazy father who hated anyone who professed belief in a God I grew up parroting his belief system and mocked anyone who believed in gods or fairies.
But I had an encounter and embarked on my own quest to prove God didn't exist and started to question my atheism. I prayed a simple prayer to the unknown and asked for God to reveal Himself if her were real.
It's a very dangerous prayer because my life changed forever one day when He did just that...
Fascinating journey when we embark upon discovering what we personally believe about the Universe, God, our meaning and purpose ... deep stuff. And science says if we believe SOMETHING higher than ourselves it is good for us and our well being and happiness is heightened.
Of course, it is a huge subject and there are literally over 40,000 different Christian denominations alone that each believe they have the corner on the truth so it is not an easy path and our search and research could take some time.
Raised in an insane world by my atheistic somewhat ... no REALLY, REALLY crazy father who hated anyone who professed belief in a God I grew up parroting his belief system and mocked anyone who believed in gods or fairies.
But I had an encounter and embarked on my own quest to prove God didn't exist and started to question my atheism. I prayed a simple prayer to the unknown and asked for God to reveal Himself if her were real.
It's a very dangerous prayer because my life changed forever one day when He did just that...
I was born in the Brethren church. Raised in a combo of Brethren & Southern Baptist churches (grandmother in B, father in SB). I still go to church, but I find myself keeping quiet because I've realized that I can't really be in a room where someone is telling me "It's our way or the highway" in re: the Bible. I'm officially non-denominational. I don't believe in cherry-picking scripture to suit your needs. I don't believe in using the Bible as a blunt instrument with which to bash people over the head. I do believe that God (as I see him) is just and merciful. I believe in loving my neighbor, no exceptions-- doesn't mean I have to like him all the time, and that's ok. In terms of how this relates to my own recovery... well, I pray to my just and merciful God to do with me and my life as He sees fit. I work my part of the program but relinquish all control to Him. I read my Bible and always try to remember that the book as we know it has been translated and tweaked over millenia, so I don't really read into it literally. But I also don't go jumping out into the ether with my own ideas. Hope that makes sense.
When I was lost in my codependent behavior I spent a great deal of time and energy trying to convince my ex that she should get help for her pill addiction. When I would find loose pills lying around the house I would buy her little containers where she could keep them. When she lost track of which medication she had taken, and when, I would give her small notepads for her to write it down.
I went to some meetings of NA and brought back literature for _her_ to read. I suggested topics she should discuss with her therapist, her doctor, etc. I _knew_, without any doubt whatsoever, that if she would just do what I told her then our lives would be so much better. If only she would follow my direction....
... and on and on. I expect you all can identify with that.
When I got into recovery I hit the whole "HP" thing like a brick wall. I had my own prejudices about religion and what not. My sponsor pointed out that it was obvious I believed in some kind of "HP" because I was trying to direct and control my ex as if I were _her_ "HP". I realy did believe that I knew what was best for her.
My sponsor indicated that was the most disrespectful and condescending behavior a husband could ever show towards his wife. He was right.
As a person with this "baggage" of co-dependency I have my own "addiction". I am addicted to controling and directing. What I have learned in recovery so far is that in order to treat this condition I have to fully understand the 12 step version of "HP". My sponsor, as usual, simplified it for me.
The only thing I have to understand about the "HP" concept in the 12 step programs is that I am _not_ the "HP". He calls it "right-sizing" my ego. As usual, he is absolutely correct.
Mike
I went to some meetings of NA and brought back literature for _her_ to read. I suggested topics she should discuss with her therapist, her doctor, etc. I _knew_, without any doubt whatsoever, that if she would just do what I told her then our lives would be so much better. If only she would follow my direction....
... and on and on. I expect you all can identify with that.
When I got into recovery I hit the whole "HP" thing like a brick wall. I had my own prejudices about religion and what not. My sponsor pointed out that it was obvious I believed in some kind of "HP" because I was trying to direct and control my ex as if I were _her_ "HP". I realy did believe that I knew what was best for her.
My sponsor indicated that was the most disrespectful and condescending behavior a husband could ever show towards his wife. He was right.
As a person with this "baggage" of co-dependency I have my own "addiction". I am addicted to controling and directing. What I have learned in recovery so far is that in order to treat this condition I have to fully understand the 12 step version of "HP". My sponsor, as usual, simplified it for me.
The only thing I have to understand about the "HP" concept in the 12 step programs is that I am _not_ the "HP". He calls it "right-sizing" my ego. As usual, he is absolutely correct.
Mike
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Jessica -
I was raised Catholic but I've studied other faith systems as well. Now I attend a Universalist church and I like to say that I'm open to many types of spirituality. I would say that what I currently believe is a mix of paganism, Christianity and Buddhism.
The Heart of the Buddha is a good place to start if you're interested in Buddhism. With Buddhism you will learn how to detach while at the same time maintaining your love and compassion for others.
The Bible is obviously a good book if you want to learn more about Christianity. I prefer the New Testament.
There's also some youtube videos which offer a glimpse of other belief systems. I went on a retreat with Brahma Kumaris one year, which is a religion from India. They teach about detachment, inner peace, meditation, and being connected to God. Here is a link to their Happiness Unlimited series: Happiness Unlimited -1 - Sister Shivani (English) - YouTube
Whatever you do, follow your intuition. If your intuition is pulling you in a certain direction, it's for a reason.
I was raised Catholic but I've studied other faith systems as well. Now I attend a Universalist church and I like to say that I'm open to many types of spirituality. I would say that what I currently believe is a mix of paganism, Christianity and Buddhism.
The Heart of the Buddha is a good place to start if you're interested in Buddhism. With Buddhism you will learn how to detach while at the same time maintaining your love and compassion for others.
The Bible is obviously a good book if you want to learn more about Christianity. I prefer the New Testament.
There's also some youtube videos which offer a glimpse of other belief systems. I went on a retreat with Brahma Kumaris one year, which is a religion from India. They teach about detachment, inner peace, meditation, and being connected to God. Here is a link to their Happiness Unlimited series: Happiness Unlimited -1 - Sister Shivani (English) - YouTube
Whatever you do, follow your intuition. If your intuition is pulling you in a certain direction, it's for a reason.
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I was looking for God tonight. I was worried and alone in a strange place. I prayed to God, hoping for a feeling of connection with a higher power. Not much happened.
And then I looked up. And just outside the window I saw the thinnest, yellowest, curve of a moon peeking in at me and I there was my God, with me all along.
I find God in an answer that comes to me that is beyond and above and through me.
I find myself entirely blessed to have had enough misfortunate that God's presence became known to me like never before.
I sound like a loony, perhaps, but I mean every word.
And then I looked up. And just outside the window I saw the thinnest, yellowest, curve of a moon peeking in at me and I there was my God, with me all along.
I find God in an answer that comes to me that is beyond and above and through me.
I find myself entirely blessed to have had enough misfortunate that God's presence became known to me like never before.
I sound like a loony, perhaps, but I mean every word.
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When I attended a family recovery program, their Spiritual Director gave a talk. He wrote the word "religion" on a board, then we said whatever words came up. It ranged from ritual to doctrine to war. Then he wrote "spirituality". Now our words were things like meditation and nature. It helped us realize that spiritual and religion are very different. You can be a very spiritual being without being religious per se.
We then talked about the concept of a Higher Power. He said all that means is that we recognize that WE are not the HP in our universe. Look at the stars in the sky at night, and pick one out. Now move it to the right. The lesson is we recognize that there is something bigger than us at work in the universe, whatever you believe that to be. I"m born and raised Catholic, but I loved the analogy of moving the star.
We then talked about the concept of a Higher Power. He said all that means is that we recognize that WE are not the HP in our universe. Look at the stars in the sky at night, and pick one out. Now move it to the right. The lesson is we recognize that there is something bigger than us at work in the universe, whatever you believe that to be. I"m born and raised Catholic, but I loved the analogy of moving the star.
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I was looking for God tonight. I was worried and alone in a strange place. I prayed to God, hoping for a feeling of connection with a higher power. Not much happened.
And then I looked up. And just outside the window I saw the thinnest, yellowest, curve of a moon peeking in at me and I there was my God, with me all along.
I find God in an answer that comes to me that is beyond and above and through me.
I find myself entirely blessed to have had enough misfortunate that God's presence became known to me like never before.
I sound like a loony, perhaps, but I mean every word.
And then I looked up. And just outside the window I saw the thinnest, yellowest, curve of a moon peeking in at me and I there was my God, with me all along.
I find God in an answer that comes to me that is beyond and above and through me.
I find myself entirely blessed to have had enough misfortunate that God's presence became known to me like never before.
I sound like a loony, perhaps, but I mean every word.
Everything is right where it should be, right now.
Prayers for you, too.
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Recovering -
I agree. I think there is something bigger than us, but that we are also apart of it. And even if we can't physically move a star, there is a lot of change we can effect simply by having faith.
There are good and bad to religion. It simply doesn't fit who I am to limit myself to one. I would rather learn as much as I can, and be open. Plus the more I read about different faiths, the more I realize that at the heart of each one they have the same teaching - Love. But I don't judge anyone who defines themselves as religious. Each person's path in life is different.
I agree. I think there is something bigger than us, but that we are also apart of it. And even if we can't physically move a star, there is a lot of change we can effect simply by having faith.
There are good and bad to religion. It simply doesn't fit who I am to limit myself to one. I would rather learn as much as I can, and be open. Plus the more I read about different faiths, the more I realize that at the heart of each one they have the same teaching - Love. But I don't judge anyone who defines themselves as religious. Each person's path in life is different.
The True Meaning Of Being Born Again in Christ
The True Meaning Of Being Born Again in Christ - YouTube
The True Meaning Of Being Born Again in Christ - YouTube
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Jessicajoe-
I agree with so much posted above.
I just wanted to share my own two cents. For me in part this part of my recovery journey was about "a crisis of faith," to a degree.
My religion of upbringing mixed in with a family history of alcoholism (though not in my immediate family) has lead to some significant internal challenges for me.
Attending Al-Anon and taking this journey has helped me to to come to a more comfortable place with this topic....but I did have to go through all the discomfort (and continue to).
I agree with so much posted above.
I just wanted to share my own two cents. For me in part this part of my recovery journey was about "a crisis of faith," to a degree.
My religion of upbringing mixed in with a family history of alcoholism (though not in my immediate family) has lead to some significant internal challenges for me.
Attending Al-Anon and taking this journey has helped me to to come to a more comfortable place with this topic....but I did have to go through all the discomfort (and continue to).
Organized religion has definitely done a good job of mucking it up over the centuries. I felt so relieved when I finally realized that God is who I believe He is to me (as I understand Him), and He doesn't have to fit into whatever box each church tells me He should. I know He is around me. I've felt it. I've been blessed and humbled by Him, on His schedule, in His own way. I don't always get what I ask for, but I always get what I need. Having that open line to God has made the recovery journey so much better. When I was fretting over what the church expected of me, I couldn't open my heart to Him or my program. All of that has changed now that I know He really is here, and I don't have to bear the weight of this on my own.
Another thing that pushed me away from the church was my dabbling in Taoism. Applying some of the basic principles of Taoism has improved my ability to focus and meditate. I have fewer panic attacks and don't fly off the handle nearly as much as I used to.
Another thing that pushed me away from the church was my dabbling in Taoism. Applying some of the basic principles of Taoism has improved my ability to focus and meditate. I have fewer panic attacks and don't fly off the handle nearly as much as I used to.
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I was raised Catholic though I took for granted the many gems of the faith at an early age. I am very aware of the consequences of that and my imperfections to this day. The Catholic faith has helped me tremendously in every part of life when I have applied it. When I stay the course of what my faith has taught me to be, I have a continued peace within that no pleasure in this world can come close to. In my 20s, I mistook some of my unhappiness within myself as a problem with my spouse (since we did have problems) while not recognizing a certain amount was due to a problem with my relationship (or lack thereof) with God. In my 30s, I was blind to the hypocrisy of my beliefs versus actions (e.g. I still hadn't figured out that much of our disagreements were done in a mutually disrespectful, unloving way). I have no doubt why my x was in my life though it was a process to see it. We both have helped each other to become the best version of ourselves though it seems we went to hell and back in the process. All those years together, and it seems I am just beginning to understand what I have done and what I fail to do. The volumes of spiritual writing available are a lamp to my feet. My job now is to work hard on how I will continue to be the best version of myself.
I see God “move mountains” in my life and between my x and I as the details of our future slowly unravel. I am blessed, and I realize I always will be as long as I keep the faith. I believe there are many paths to God, and I believe in giving credit where credit is due hence why I took the time to write this. This path, as found through Catholicism, has worked unbelievably well for me; and I believe it can do the same for anyone who chooses it.
I see God “move mountains” in my life and between my x and I as the details of our future slowly unravel. I am blessed, and I realize I always will be as long as I keep the faith. I believe there are many paths to God, and I believe in giving credit where credit is due hence why I took the time to write this. This path, as found through Catholicism, has worked unbelievably well for me; and I believe it can do the same for anyone who chooses it.
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That's until you start hanging around with Buddhists. I post on a couple of Buddhist forums and I swear most of it is fighting about who has the real Buddhism, if what you do isn't in the sutras it's not real, requirement in beliefs like rebirth and nirvana.
I think there are some great tools that can be pulled out of Buddhism like meditation and mindfulness but overall it's just another dogma to many people.
I think there are some great tools that can be pulled out of Buddhism like meditation and mindfulness but overall it's just another dogma to many people.
A friend of mine is Vietnamese and his parents are Buddhist and so is he. I've eaten Macdonalds with him, smoked cigarettes with him, bet on horses with him and had beers with him.
The born agains with all the dogma and all the MUSTS, IME, can be most difficult PITAS.
Great thread! A couple of quotes I really like, the first is from this scientist. He explains that everything we see today is made of the remains of first generation stars that exploded. So not only am I a part of the universe but the universe is a part of me.
The other is from zen.
Sitting quietly doing nothing. Spring comes and the grass grows by itself.
Your friend,
The other is from zen.
Sitting quietly doing nothing. Spring comes and the grass grows by itself.
Your friend,
hi
like you, i grew up in the church. i am presbyterian and went to sunday school, the regular service, youth group, wednesday night dinners, handbell choir and chorus for my entire childhood.
in my twenties i returned to church with my longtime exbf (before the exA) we attended an episcopal church for almost a decade (he was episcopal) until that relationship dissolved. i returned to the presbyterian church alone and then with exA when we were together. after that relationship ended i haven't had the desire to return. not really sure why. i think i am more comfortable going to church with someone rather than alone. i think too that i was mad that i did all the good girl stuff and despite that my relationships ended in deceit (on their part). i had a hard time seeing the point of church when my life wasn't working out the way i wanted it too.
now i still don't go, but that doesn't mean i won't return later. however, i feel a close connection to a higher power that i consider God. i love him and he loves me. i feel close to God when i am outside, so i do something (usually exercise) outside everyday and that makes me feel better, a little lighter. i talk/think through issues, cry, laugh, zone out and listen to the radio or music depending on the day. all of it brings me peace and helps to settle whatever is going on inside of me.
like you, i grew up in the church. i am presbyterian and went to sunday school, the regular service, youth group, wednesday night dinners, handbell choir and chorus for my entire childhood.
in my twenties i returned to church with my longtime exbf (before the exA) we attended an episcopal church for almost a decade (he was episcopal) until that relationship dissolved. i returned to the presbyterian church alone and then with exA when we were together. after that relationship ended i haven't had the desire to return. not really sure why. i think i am more comfortable going to church with someone rather than alone. i think too that i was mad that i did all the good girl stuff and despite that my relationships ended in deceit (on their part). i had a hard time seeing the point of church when my life wasn't working out the way i wanted it too.
now i still don't go, but that doesn't mean i won't return later. however, i feel a close connection to a higher power that i consider God. i love him and he loves me. i feel close to God when i am outside, so i do something (usually exercise) outside everyday and that makes me feel better, a little lighter. i talk/think through issues, cry, laugh, zone out and listen to the radio or music depending on the day. all of it brings me peace and helps to settle whatever is going on inside of me.
life will work out just as we wish it would
that is a new age message shared in many churches these days
but - holds not to scripture
actually the bible tells Christians that life will be rough here
also expect to be persecuted
MB
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