Patton Read Rommel's Book. Regarding reading the AA Big Book
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Patton Read Rommel's Book. Regarding reading the AA Big Book
Back when I was a "butterbar" 2LT we were assigned to read "Attacks." It is the US version of German General Rommel's book -- Infanterie Greift An -- based on his experiences in WW1, and the methods he used in WW2.
Infanterie Greift An - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US General George Patton also studied Rommel's book. That in part is credited to Patton defeating Rommel across Northern Africa.
The Hollywood Version of all this . . .
Magnificent Bastard - YouTube
==============
Here and Now.
My Step Sponsor has assigned me to read and study the AA Big Book.
In detail. So I am.
==============
From Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
Ch. 3
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
==============
Here is what I am thinking.
While we study ourselves in Alanon, SR, etc., to come to know ourselves . . . it is also good to read the "enemy's" book.
So I am reading the AA Big Book. In detail.
Perhaps you should, too.
http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/
/
Infanterie Greift An - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US General George Patton also studied Rommel's book. That in part is credited to Patton defeating Rommel across Northern Africa.
The Hollywood Version of all this . . .
Magnificent Bastard - YouTube
==============
Here and Now.
My Step Sponsor has assigned me to read and study the AA Big Book.
In detail. So I am.
==============
From Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
Ch. 3
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
==============
Here is what I am thinking.
While we study ourselves in Alanon, SR, etc., to come to know ourselves . . . it is also good to read the "enemy's" book.
So I am reading the AA Big Book. In detail.
Perhaps you should, too.
http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/
/
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
Excellent post!
Our enemy is cunning baffling and powerful. The more we understand ourselves and understand our enemy the higher the likelihood that we will be victorious.
As with any battle the larger our army the easier the victory.
Our enemy is cunning baffling and powerful. The more we understand ourselves and understand our enemy the higher the likelihood that we will be victorious.
As with any battle the larger our army the easier the victory.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
Originally Posted by Hammer 
Back when I was a "butterbar" 2LT we were assigned to read "Attacks." It is the US version of German General Rommel's book -- Infanterie Greift An -- based on his experiences in WW1, and the methods he used in WW2.
Infanterie Greift An - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US General George Patton also studied Rommel's book. That in part is credited to Patton defeating Rommel across Northern Africa.
The Hollywood Version of all this . . .
Magnificent Bastard - YouTube
==============
Here and Now.
My Step Sponsor has assigned me to read and study the AA Big Book.
In detail. So I am.
==============
From Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
Ch. 3
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
==============
Here is what I am thinking.
While we study ourselves in Alanon, SR, etc., to come to know ourselves . . . it is also good to read the "enemy's" book.
So I am reading the AA Big Book. In detail.
Perhaps you should, too.
Big Book Online Fourth Edition
Infanterie Greift An - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US General George Patton also studied Rommel's book. That in part is credited to Patton defeating Rommel across Northern Africa.
The Hollywood Version of all this . . .
Magnificent Bastard - YouTube
==============
Here and Now.
My Step Sponsor has assigned me to read and study the AA Big Book.
In detail. So I am.
==============
From Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
Ch. 3
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
==============
Here is what I am thinking.
While we study ourselves in Alanon, SR, etc., to come to know ourselves . . . it is also good to read the "enemy's" book.
So I am reading the AA Big Book. In detail.
Perhaps you should, too.
Big Book Online Fourth Edition
Last edited by DesertEyes; 01-03-2014 at 07:49 PM. Reason: fixed broken quote
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 232
It truly feels like that: an 'us' and 'them' dynamic.
We're an opposition to their action, and 'they' know its 'us' that has a problem with it.
'They' have to go through their path to recover(if they so choose), and 'we' have to go through our own path of recovery.
I'm just plain tired of of it all. I don't think I have the heart or will to go through it any longer.
Good post nonetheless, Hammer.
We're an opposition to their action, and 'they' know its 'us' that has a problem with it.
'They' have to go through their path to recover(if they so choose), and 'we' have to go through our own path of recovery.
I'm just plain tired of of it all. I don't think I have the heart or will to go through it any longer.
Good post nonetheless, Hammer.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Spinner-007
It truly feels like that: an 'us' and 'them' dynamic.
We're an opposition to their action, and 'they' know its 'us' that has a problem with it.
'They' have to go through their path to recover(if they so choose), and 'we' have to go through our own path of recovery.
I'm just plain tired of of it all. I don't think I have the heart or will to go through it any longer.
Good post nonetheless, Hammer.
We're an opposition to their action, and 'they' know its 'us' that has a problem with it.
'They' have to go through their path to recover(if they so choose), and 'we' have to go through our own path of recovery.
I'm just plain tired of of it all. I don't think I have the heart or will to go through it any longer.
Good post nonetheless, Hammer.
My view is that I am willing to do all this work, based on what I would like things to be. Largely for the kids, but also for me and her. Either she will also be pulling her end or not, and she will get her own rewards accordingly.
For my side, I expect Great Things from the Journey quite independent from anything on her side. But like I say, I fully understand what you are saying, and if this were just pointing towards more endless more of the same -- I would not even bother.
I see things as just being 12 Steps away from launch and I expect to cross the finish line at near escape/launch velocity. I would invite you or as many others would care to take this Journey with me.
by the way . . . . the whole enemy model . . . THAT part is My Projection. Always understand the battle is not between *us* and *them.* Mo Teresa has it correct. This is between you/me/them and God. If we find ourselves at odds with God, we have chosen the losing side.
I guess folks are not yet tired of me going on the Mo T thing . . .
===============
Mother Teresa: " Do It Anyway" (The Prayer Foundation).
1. The version found written on the wall in Mother Teresa's home for children in Calcutta:
People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.
Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.
In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.
-this version is credited to Mother Teresa
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Reading the BB
Hammer, you should undertake a modernization of the BB. You could make it heartbreakingly funny as well.
Be careful with assuming the 12 steps will be a finish line. I have found some work brings me right back to step 1.
May 2014 bring many peaceful days to you and yours.
Be careful with assuming the 12 steps will be a finish line. I have found some work brings me right back to step 1.
May 2014 bring many peaceful days to you and yours.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Stung
This is an interesting concept. I'm curious though, are there 12 steps for AA and a different set of 12 steps for Al Anon?
Almost the same thing word for word. But there are some differences.
I will leave it to look up and confirm the precise differences (we both know you likely will?) . . . as you may learn some stuff along the way.
=============
The Answer I wanted to give you:
No. *We* have to do all the Steps backwards and in High Heels.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by CodeJob
Hammer, you should undertake a modernization of the BB. You could make it heartbreakingly funny as well.
Be careful with assuming the 12 steps will be a finish line. I have found some work brings me right back to step 1.
May 2014 bring many peaceful days to you and yours.
Be careful with assuming the 12 steps will be a finish line. I have found some work brings me right back to step 1.
May 2014 bring many peaceful days to you and yours.
That is just what I am calling MY Finish Line.
I figure by then MY side of the street (as they say in the Programs) should be pretty clean.
Not saying that is somehow good or wonderful for all times or something, but I am not inclined to pull the trigger on Mrs. Hammer for not doing the same thing I have not done . . . until after I have done it.
See how that works?
Check back in on me in this regard about 12 Steps from now.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I will leave it to look up and confirm the precise differences (we both know you likely will?) . . . as you may learn some stuff along the way.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I have that quote from Mother T on the front of our fridge at home, along with the 4 Agreements:
Be Impeccable with Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.
Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.
It is interesting that you mention military references - in a recent convo with RAH he spoke a lot more openly about his emotional mindset during some of our blowout arguments during his drinking days.
He said he found himself instinctively reverting to his military training when it came to protecting his secret drinking during these fights - his first & foremost focus was to "neutralize the enemy" starting with raised voices, aggressive behavior, etc. For a while it worked. When it stopped working because I no longer "neutralized" easily, he was too far gone in his saturated mind to notice or switch tactics... so he just stayed loud & obnoxious figuring he could bully me until he wore me down. It never occurred to him to re-examine that I wasn't even his "enemy" because that was what I represented to his addiction regardless of my actions or words - the habit became so ingrained in his protection of his addiction that he would argue any & all points until he was in a full tantrum, which would justify his next move; leaving in a rage.
I hadn't thought about reading the BB - despite all that I do read about addiction, this never occurred to me. It can't hurt, right?
Be Impeccable with Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.
Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.
It is interesting that you mention military references - in a recent convo with RAH he spoke a lot more openly about his emotional mindset during some of our blowout arguments during his drinking days.
He said he found himself instinctively reverting to his military training when it came to protecting his secret drinking during these fights - his first & foremost focus was to "neutralize the enemy" starting with raised voices, aggressive behavior, etc. For a while it worked. When it stopped working because I no longer "neutralized" easily, he was too far gone in his saturated mind to notice or switch tactics... so he just stayed loud & obnoxious figuring he could bully me until he wore me down. It never occurred to him to re-examine that I wasn't even his "enemy" because that was what I represented to his addiction regardless of my actions or words - the habit became so ingrained in his protection of his addiction that he would argue any & all points until he was in a full tantrum, which would justify his next move; leaving in a rage.
I hadn't thought about reading the BB - despite all that I do read about addiction, this never occurred to me. It can't hurt, right?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Originally Posted by FireSprite
I have that quote from Mother T on the front of our fridge at home, along with the 4 Agreements:
Be Impeccable with Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.
Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.
It is interesting that you mention military references - in a recent convo with RAH he spoke a lot more openly about his emotional mindset during some of our blowout arguments during his drinking days.
He said he found himself instinctively reverting to his military training when it came to protecting his secret drinking during these fights - his first & foremost focus was to "neutralize the enemy" starting with raised voices, aggressive behavior, etc. For a while it worked. When it stopped working because I no longer "neutralized" easily, he was too far gone in his saturated mind to notice or switch tactics... so he just stayed loud & obnoxious figuring he could bully me until he wore me down. It never occurred to him to re-examine that I wasn't even his "enemy" because that was what I represented to his addiction regardless of my actions or words - the habit became so ingrained in his protection of his addiction that he would argue any & all points until he was in a full tantrum, which would justify his next move; leaving in a rage.
I hadn't thought about reading the BB - despite all that I do read about addiction, this never occurred to me. It can't hurt, right?
Be Impeccable with Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.
Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.
It is interesting that you mention military references - in a recent convo with RAH he spoke a lot more openly about his emotional mindset during some of our blowout arguments during his drinking days.
He said he found himself instinctively reverting to his military training when it came to protecting his secret drinking during these fights - his first & foremost focus was to "neutralize the enemy" starting with raised voices, aggressive behavior, etc. For a while it worked. When it stopped working because I no longer "neutralized" easily, he was too far gone in his saturated mind to notice or switch tactics... so he just stayed loud & obnoxious figuring he could bully me until he wore me down. It never occurred to him to re-examine that I wasn't even his "enemy" because that was what I represented to his addiction regardless of my actions or words - the habit became so ingrained in his protection of his addiction that he would argue any & all points until he was in a full tantrum, which would justify his next move; leaving in a rage.
I hadn't thought about reading the BB - despite all that I do read about addiction, this never occurred to me. It can't hurt, right?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Readerbaby - have you read The Fifth Agreement as well? I haven't yet (no clue why) but I've heard it initially revisits the 4 agreements before introducing the 5th. I was thinking about re-reading the first book, but I think I'll skip right to Book #2 instead.
God's Kid
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,820
Originally Posted by choublak
We (Al-Anon and AA members) are really not that different.
They're obsessed with alcohol.
We're obsessed with them.
I have also heard a lot that "alcoholism is a disease of relationships" which I believe is true.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I don't disagree with you Stung - I never felt like I was obsessed with RAH either. I BECAME obsessed though, in a bad way, over all that I didn't know or control.... it had nothing to do with HIM as a person, specifically.
Where is he? Who is he with/talking to/texting? Why won't he answer my texts/calls? Is this his dramatic BS or is something really wrong this time? Should I check cell phone/credit card/bank accts online for "evidence" or "clues"? Why would he buy/do THAT? WTH is he thinking???????
Where is he? Who is he with/talking to/texting? Why won't he answer my texts/calls? Is this his dramatic BS or is something really wrong this time? Should I check cell phone/credit card/bank accts online for "evidence" or "clues"? Why would he buy/do THAT? WTH is he thinking???????
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