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-   -   Sometimes I feel like I have a seventh sense (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/318166-sometimes-i-feel-like-i-have-seventh-sense.html)

lillamy 01-01-2014 08:08 PM

Sometimes I feel like I have a seventh sense
 
That would be in addition to the normal five plus the nonsense.

A year ago, one of my friends found out her husband was cheating on her. Her life fell apart, she told our circle of girlfriends in tears about how horrid it all was. How he had lied to her. Betrayed her. Taken their young children to the zoo with his mistress behind her back. Shared the most personal intimate details about him with us.

All the while, I had this sense. And when the divorce proceedings got really ugly, I asked her, sitting in her attorney's waiting room: "Is he an alcoholic?"

She just nodded and burst into tears.

Another one of our friends wants to divorce her emotionally and verbally abusive husband. She's shared horror stories that have made me white as a ghost just listening. But she didn't share until I asked her in private that her husband (a successful businessman) is an alcoholic.

Today, I had a long talk with my second cousin who is contemplating breaking up with her boyfriend because he has lied to her about something inconsequential for the third time in the past six months. After she described the boyfriend's behavior, I asked her, too, if her boyfriend was an alcoholic. She said no. But two hours later, she e-mailed me and told me I was right, but that she was so ashamed of being in a relationship with an alcoholic that she didn't want to tell me.

WHY am I telling you these stories?

Because I'm contemplating why we are so ashamed of alcoholics. Why we are so ashamed of being married to one, or the child of one, or the parent of one, that we can share all kinds of other horrifying stories -- but deny the addiction?
Is it a part of our codependency, that we somehow feel like we're responsible? That if we were just "better" they wouldn't have to drink?

And also -- if we are so ashamed of being in a relationship with an alcoholic -- dear HP, imagine what it's like to be an alcoholic and admit it.

What do you think?

hopeful4 01-01-2014 08:30 PM

I know for myself i felt so much more free and less alone when i stopped hiding my ah's addiction.

LifeRecovery 01-01-2014 08:38 PM

I don't know that I ever felt ashamed per say that he was living with an addiction.

I did take a long time to come around that I had a loved one with problem drinking. For me it was MY IDEA of what alcohol addiction looked like that I had so wrong.

He worked, he did not get bad with drinking every time he drank.....the problem must be in my head.

After I finally came to terms with what I experienced, and had given myself permission to call it what it was, it was such a relief to read on addiction, Al-Anon and open AA meetings.....I was able to be validated and that I had not experienced before. I did no

Your shame comment has spoken to me though. As someone who has had years of work on her own addiction (that I voluntarily got help for) I don't think I truly appreciated how shameful his addiction might be to him. That is sending off signals to me of where some of our challenges might have existed. Thanks for posing the question.

CarryOn 01-01-2014 08:53 PM

I think a lot of the problem is that alcoholism is so misunderstood - what it is, how it affects the A & their loved ones, etc., etc.

I had an employee that I had to terminate earlier this year when he arrived to work in a blackout and proceeded to damage company property. I hated to let him go knowing it was addiction that caused this, but I also knew that it was the best thing for him to experience the consequences of his actions. The owner of our company & the guy's supervisor (who have personal experience with A's) would really like to bring him back to work if he can show commitment to recovery. My boss, on the other hand, repeatedly ranted to me about how this person was completely hopeless, a waste of life, and would be completely unable to be a dependable employee, even if he was in recovery. My boss is an asshat.

My point - I think it is perceptions like those of my boss that keep A's feeling ashamed. There are a lot of misconceptions about A's, and it's hard to know how educated people are about the disease & its effects so it's hard to be open about it.

Amy, you definitely have a seventh sense...I like your sixth sense, too!! I think once we become educated we are able to identify the indicators.

Stung 01-01-2014 09:07 PM

Don't think any less of me for saying this, but I associate alcoholism with being either poor or uneducated. I don't know where I get that stereotype from but that's the first thing that pops into my mind. My husband and I are both educated and successful, which us why it's so shameful for me to admit to people that my husband is 'one of them.' Some hillbilly in a pickup truck throwing back countless bottles of beer. Where in reality my alcoholic husband drinks bottles of grey goose in his Infiniti in secret.

lillamy 01-01-2014 09:14 PM


Don't think any less of me for saying this, but I associate alcoholism with being either poor or uneducated. I don't know where I get that stereotype from but that's the first thing that pops into my mind.
Oh I definitely don't! Because I thought my parents were nuts when they said AXH was an alcoholic. Because I knew alcoholics -- they were the ones that slept on park benches and lived under bridges and smelled bad!!! AXH had a successful career and was a respected part of the community!

FireSprite 01-01-2014 09:28 PM

I've had "those" kinds of conversations with clients, never easy.

I also think more than shame i had a certain amount of ignorance.... Not really connecting the dots to see that our problems were related directly to his drinking. It wasn't always easy to see the direct line between cause and effect.

HealingWillCome 01-01-2014 09:34 PM

I was asking myself these same questions yesterday and wrote about it on another thread. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ent-shame.html

----------------------------------------------

Copying and pasting some of my thoughts from yesterday here.

The ‘shame’ part:

When we live with the abuse of an alcoholic or addict, it’s embarrassing or shameful to admit it, so we often stay silenced about it in the outside world. Even after we learn that we did not cause it, we cannot control it, and we cannot cure it, we often still live in secrecy about it, maybe with the exception of sharing with trusted loved ones. We come here and share anonymously with people who get it. We read and learn about it privately, we go to anonymous meetings, we go to private therapy, private counseling.

And the funny thing is that there are bazillions of us who are affected by the illness of addiction of some kind, in some way. I remember someone hear saying, “If you shake any family tree hard enough, there’s bound to be an addict or two that fall out.” I agree. But we treat it with such secrecy. I can think of very few people I know who aren’t affected by addiction.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with privacy. At all. I need mine too. But I feel like there is so much work to be done about addiction awareness. And abuse of all kinds. And the shame that people carry. I wish the stigma of addiction would go away. I wish that people didn’t have to hurt. I think that’s it mostly. I hate pain and suffering. I hate to see it in anyone. I have no idea what the answers are; I just needed to vent. I know there are others here who are wiser and more experienced, so thanks in advance if you have anything to share.

---------------------------------------------

Tonight's thoughts:

It really strikes me that even during recovery in families, we still do all of our work in anonymous and private meetings. We still don't want anyone to know that there is a problem.

I get your 'seventh sense' too, lillamy. I work with children every day. There are times when I will have a very strong feeling about a child and wonder if there is an alcoholic or addict in the family. Most of the time that truth exposes itself.

I guess we feel shame because humans are such judgmental creatures. We fear the wrath of judgment when we feel that others can't possibly understand our circumstances. Which is why we feel so safe when we find others who get it...therapists, AA'ers, Al-Anon'ers, people here.

And if I'm being honest, when I was in relationships with alcoholics/addicts, I didn't want to air their dirty laundry with others...because I felt ashamed of entering into those relationships. Like I should have known better, but made bad choices anyway. It would have made others think less of me...in my mind anyway. A pride issue there.

And...I didn't want others to see the bad in my chosen guys, because I knew there were good things about them to love. Protecting them...you know, as a devoted wife or girlfriend should do, right? Yeah, that didn't work very well either.

I'm rambling now, and tired, so going to stop that and get some sleep. Other thoughts are tumbling around...will need to sort them out later.

HealingWillCome 01-01-2014 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 4382141)
I also think more than shame i had a certain amount of ignorance.... Not really connecting the dots to see that our problems were related directly to his drinking. It wasn't always easy to see the direct line between cause and effect.

I think about the same thing, FireSprite. And it's the reason I wish addiction awareness had more attention in the general public.

PippiLngstockng 01-02-2014 01:58 AM

I agree with everything that has been said.

I also think there are pragmatic issues.

I didn't tell my friends because I was afraid that my children would be stigmatized. I could handle the public knowing the truth, but my children? Would they stop being invited to friends' houses? Would our friends not want to leave their children at my house anymore, where Ah was often home early and under the influence (and insisting on driving kids home)? I was afraid for the children in the car, afraid of him, afraid of the domino effect this could have. When AH was mad, I was going to be hurt (mostly verbal) and he would scream at me in front of the children and I might need the police and then it would get worse still.

I was also afraid this information would get back to his employers. Then where would we be?

Little did I know then how clueless people are. Xah doesn't seem like an alcoholic so they don't believe me. But then you have to deal with people thinking you are oversensitive or crazy.

Public awareness campaign? When do we start? My sleeves are rolled up and I am ready to go to work!

JustAGirl1971 01-02-2014 05:26 AM


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 4382141)
I've had "those" kinds of conversations with clients, never easy.

I also think more than shame i had a certain amount of ignorance.... Not really connecting the dots to see that our problems were related directly to his drinking. It wasn't always easy to see the direct line between cause and effect.

^^This.

Stung 01-02-2014 05:47 AM

Little did I know then how clueless people are. Xah doesn't seem like an alcoholic so they don't believe me. But then you have to deal with people thinking you are oversensitive or crazy.

Yep. I cannot even describe the emotions that that made me feel. Good friends and my in laws all thinking that I'm lying is something else.

Thumper 01-02-2014 06:40 AM

For me it was just oceans of denial.

If I brought it out under the light I'd have to face it, face my decisions, face my life, face reality. I'd have to accept that I can not *make* things happen the way I wanted. I went to great lengths and performed many mental gymnastics (which hurt me as much or more then he did in the end) to mentally live inside the dream in my head and physically live in the reality of what my life was.

POAndrea 01-02-2014 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by Stung (Post 4382117)
Don't think any less of me for saying this, but I associate alcoholism with being either poor or uneducated. I don't know where I get that stereotype from but that's the first thing that pops into my mind. My husband and I are both educated and successful, which us why it's so shameful for me to admit to people that my husband is 'one of them.' Some hillbilly in a pickup truck throwing back countless bottles of beer. Where in reality my alcoholic husband drinks bottles of grey goose in his Infiniti in secret.

This is probably a pretty common perception. Affluent people generally have the means to conceal their problems better and to protect themselves from the consequences of their drinking. I wonder if we also might balance their alcoholism against what they contribute to the community. (Do we say "He drinks but he's SO good with the Little League/donates to the Boys' and Girls' Club/volunteers at the park?") Not to say this is ok by any measure, but maybe it explains things a bit.

hopeful4 01-02-2014 08:14 AM

O I agree. For years I honestly did not think my AH was an alcoholic because he held down a job, has a degree, etc. Surprise...this is the sort of people they do call a functioning alcoholic. While they are not really functioning at all, they have not fallen off the grid so to speak. Definitely still an alcoholic.

m1k3 01-02-2014 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 4382141)
I've had "those" kinds of conversations with clients, never easy.

I also think more than shame i had a certain amount of ignorance.... Not really connecting the dots to see that our problems were related directly to his drinking. It wasn't always easy to see the direct line between cause and effect.

:c011:

FireSprite, I really like this. As I moved on in my recovery the shame had less to do with her drinking and more to the unskillful way I handled it. It took me a while to get to the point and forgive myself and move on. I did the best I could with what I had at the time.

Your friend,

lillamy 01-02-2014 09:38 AM


As I moved on in my recovery the shame had less to do with her drinking and more to the unskillful way I handled it. It took me a while to get to the point and forgive myself and move on. I did the best I could with what I had at the time.
I think this -- the bolded part -- may be one of the most important things we learn in this process. That we can't do more than we can at any given point. And so I hope I did not come across as judgmental. I was the same way. Even after AXH threatened to kill us all, I was very cautious who I shared his addiction issues with.

I am cautious to ask people because I sometimes feel like I see alcoholics everywhere, kwim? But it's frightening how prevalent alcoholism is. :(

peaceofpi 01-02-2014 09:57 AM

Sometimes I feel like the kid in Sixth Sense (or in your case, Seventh Sense): I see brain-dead people.

The more I learned about alcoholism and its effects on the brain and body, and how addiction can trump love and every other noble human emotion, and the more I talked to friends, I began to realize the prevalence of alcoholism. One of my best friend's spouses; my neighbor; the father of a close friend; my SIL's ex-husband, etc, etc, etc. I never knew about their situations until I started being open about our family "secret."

At first I didn't want to be ostracized, but instead I found acceptance and love with friends sharing their stories and helping each other in recovery and deepening our friendships.

Upsetnneedhelp 01-02-2014 11:29 AM

llilamy, we are ashamed of alcoholics because society does not view it as a true illness. Many medical professionals will say it is but believe otherwise. The court system treats it as a crime and not a illness.

Stung 01-02-2014 11:37 AM

Again, don't hate me but I also don't view it as an illness (please don't take offense, I'm just sharing my personal view.) If all a cancer patient had to do was stop buying cancer at the cancer store, they would do it. That's just how I feel though.


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