Stung, I went back and re-read your post from Dec 26th:

I am the wife of an alcoholic

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This is who I am now. At some point my life changed without my consent and without my knowledge.

I let my husband change me, control me and manipulate me. He abused me, isolated me and discredited me. I tried to save him. And in turn I was hoping that if I could only save him, maybe he would save me too. But he can only save himself, and likewise, I am the only person equipped to save me.

Now I know better. Now I am informed, aware and better equipped.

Today is day one of rescuing myself.

I am going to focus only on myself and my children and making sure that our needs are met and that we enjoy every single day because that is up to me and no one else.

Unless I am misunderstanding, it does not sound like anything truly has changed on his part. For an alcoholic to temporarily abstain (if he is doing that) and to make promises and behave well in fear of losing you, is not change. It has to be REAL commitment to sobriety and recovery, including AA or some other program of recovery. It takes months of real emotional work to move from abstinence - some call it white knuckling - to sobriety.

You have separated and taken your children away from your AH's presence, and that is a major step toward giving yourself the time and space to sort out what is going on, and what you need and want, short-term and long term.

In your posts in this thread, you are showing real and genuine feelings about how your husband has treated you. I believe, from my experience, it is better to stay in a safe and sheltered environment away from his abuse and manipulation and let yourself start to emerge. For me, my whole being was submerged as a result of having let myself live with abuse for far too long. My story is in the sticky "What is abuse?"

I needed time away to see myself not through the lense of my AH, but through my own eyes. It sounds like the same might be very helpful for you.

Negative feelings about someone who has mistreated you are HONEST; they are not disloyal or bad. It is okay, even necessary, to feel them and sort through them. This isn't the time to sort out whether your marriage will or won't survive. Before you diagnose the patient and prescribe a remedy, you have to take its temperature, do the tests to find out what is really going on. That seems like where you are now, and it is a good HONEST place to be. Don't give it up to placate him.

ShootingStar1

No wise advice, but why don't you let him clear Step 9 before you all are talking about the future?

You understand that is not "Alanon" type advice -- but from my observation what most of would want is some Step 9 treatment. If he never makes it that far you (as most of *us*) probably do not want him back.

Take a look at his line up list for the Steps. By Step 9, come Hell or High Water, he will making things right. And chances are not by his own effort but by God's Grace.

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1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

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You WILL KNOW when and if #9 Happens.

By then he is flying straight or not. Most Dry Drunks never make it that far. The Saying of the Steps and the Doing of Steps are very different things.

The last 3 just keep things going right, thereafter . . . .

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10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Stung
I would say true to the Vows you made till you have to divorce. I can't understand how someone can date others while still married, separated or not legally you are still married and to be honest still hurting. Divorce is taking two that have bonded to one and tearing that apart. Emotionally it takes more time than just the divorce being final.
Now, no one should ever be abused time after time. I guess what I am trying to say here is make sure you totally give it your best in time and effort and not fall for the grass is greener on the other side. It might be for a while but until you are one complete yourself that grass will turn brown and once again you will be looking for more green grass.
I have been down the divorce route, buried my legal wife and now on the other side married again with God a the center point of our marriage. The grass is only a green as you give yourself to another with out expectations and love unconditionally.
AG

I just hate this. I want time to turn back, I want my husband to make different choices. I've made him leave before but I always slowly let him back because this is hard. It's hard doing everything on your own with two small children. When I take my girls out on weekends or holidays like today, I feel so guilty and sorry for them when I see other kids with BOTH of their parents. This is NOT what I want for them or me. I want a normal husband. I want normal problems. I want to be venting to my husband that the expensive stroller that I HAD to have has a squeaky wheel...not here wondering how I can maintain my self worth and simultaneously try to keep my family together all assuming my husband does what he's supposed to.

Truth be told, I probably want his sobriety more than he does at this point. I want a resolution to start showing itself to me. I want to see for myself that I need to either buckle down and get ready to fight or that I can exhale and find comfort in the fact that things can and will be mended. I want my heart to stop aching. I want this nightmare to end. I have worked so hard to do things the right way in my life and I can't believe that this is where I am and who I am.

Stung -- a little Truth Talk?

Have you started to get a glimmer that EVEN IF he does EVERYTHING Perfect . . . and you do nothing . . . Things will STILL NOT Work?

You are not going to get the Big Happy Ending without doing YOUR part.

AlwaysGrowing, I would stick needles in my eyes before I would cheat on my husband.

1. I don't have the time. 2. I don't have the interest. I need another man in my life like I need another hole in my head.

P.S. my husband has already broken a good deal of our marriages vows. Those are damn near null and void at this point. I'm faithful because I (unlike my husband) am a person of integrity, fortitude and faith.

Hammer, I know. I'm working on that part. Baby steps, okay? I have a counseling appt next week.

I don't think things are going to work out, but I WANT them to. I want a happily ever after story.

I would LOVE for you to have a happily ever after story too Stung...

But the truth is, IF that happens it is still a LOT of work away from being so... Work on both sides of the street...

You are grieving now for what could have/should have been. I hear that loud and clear; and you have every right to grieve... It is in fact a part of the process in my opinion.

Baby Steps it is though... Keep taking the next right steps for you and your kiddies... Take care of YOU and I hope his actions speak louder than his words... Just because he is relenting and remorseful right now doesn't really mean anything... He has to DO it in a much bigger way... Actions, not words...

Big hugs to you tonight!!!!

Kat

Question about these steps...do they take a month to complete each one? Is that why people suggests taking a year off in regards to relationships?

Well, it takes as long as it takes... It's different for everyone I think...

A year more or less is a guideline, not an absolute... It does take time to relearn and refocus on healthy behaviors....

Faith. That is what will get you from here to there.

Another thought.
I understand that you want to do your part to save the marriage if he does his.
But so far, all he has done is expressed the willingness. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

And I thought about all the times I was worried about saying something to AXH (expressing my needs/wants) because I knew he would not want the same thing and anger would ensue. I compare that with my new husband, our relationship. And I think that if I ever felt that way again -- that I was hesitant to bring up a certain subject with him -- that would be a big flashing red warning light that something in our relationship was wrong.

And I have told him as much a couple of times when he has questioned my actions/words -- that he is free to do that, but that I will not again rein in who I am in order to keep the peace in the home. Because every time I do that, I die a little. (That is different from being selfish and hurtful -- that is never OK.)

Allow yourself to live. A continued separation gives you room to breathe. It gives him room to show in action if he is the man he says he is. If he wants to put his money where his mouth is, a separation won't change that.

Truth be told, I probably want his sobriety more than he does at this point. I want a resolution to start showing itself to me. I want to see for myself that I need to either buckle down and get ready to fight or that I can exhale and find comfort in the fact that things can and will be mended. I want my heart to stop aching. I want this nightmare to end. I have worked so hard to do things the right way in my life and I can't believe that this is where I am and who I am

the above speaks to Control - IF I do A, B, C perfectly, everything will work out THE WAY I WANT IT TO. but that isn't the way life works out.....certainly we have some control over own thinking and actions...but the wild card is the other 7 billion people on the planet. there is no fail-proof recipe that assures Happily Ever After.

the good news is that WE have the power to examine our lives and decide if there are things WE want to change. we don't rely on others to conform to our plan....we can however assess whether or not the people we allow into our lives ENHANCE or DIMINISH the type of life we wish to lead. do they bring peace, knowledge, joy? if my life is a potluck do they bring a fabulous dish or a dusty can of sardines?

when people show us who they are, believe them. don't get caught up in who they were, who we THOUGHT (hoped) they were, their potential, or who they COULD be if they changed just about everything about them. we don't take brown spotted bananas home and hope they were return to a fresh state. sorry for the food analogies, I've been in the kitchen for the last hour or so trying out a new braised flank steak recipe!.

THAT is a Great Question. I dunno

Usually I know the Full -- Who, What, Where, When (the schedule) and How Much.

But my Project Management Methods seem to fail me in realm.

Full truth be told, I have taken 4 years to not get through 4.

Not so Happy with those results. Not working real well for me.

So I am changing that.

Will chat some with my new Steps Sponsor and let you know.

Hi Stung;
I know you are tired beyond weary with all you have been through.

You must be true to your own emotional state and feelings to move forward.
I agree that actions speak louder than words and that continuing seperation for awhile does not mean you will not resolve your issues and be a couple again.

What is does mean is that you and he will have some space to take a breath and move forward with your individual healing in a way that you do not seem to be able to do right now as a couple.
It will give your wounded heart some time to scab over and become more whole.
It will give him time to demonstrate through his actions that his recovery and his family is more important than his addiction.
So far from what you've posted, I haven't seen any concrete evidence of this.

It gives your children a relatively stable and peaceful environment to live in while the adults sort their difficult business out elsewhere, and not in front of them.

This last reason is really reason enough, isn't it?
Husband gets serious, works his program, you work yours, and the happy ending is possible.
But life is bearable while this is happening.
Do you think that is possible right now sharing the same living situation?

I wish all of you peace--I very much hope he is truly in recovery and gets better.
I hope you find peace and that perfect ending.
Whatever you choose to do, your friends on this forum support you.

I would ask, what is your husband doing to right his wrongs, rebalance the relationship, learn and grow, adjust to the changes, address his issues and become the best parent and husband he is capable of being?

You can't accomplish ANY of that for him. It sounds like you are addressing your side of things, but it will always feel out of balance if you're the only one. Don't stop, though!!

I felt very lonely and afraid, because my life began changing without him. I stopped waiting for my A to catch up and just kept evolving with my kids and circle of friends. I kept looking desperately, fearfully over my shoulder, waiting for him to catch up. And he'd call me a b**** etc for moving forward, but I am more detached. Al anon helped me a lot.

I hear you, Stung. This is hard, way hard, so much harder than we ever thought.

My thoughts empathy, caring are with you tonight and onward as you move on through this tunnel back into the light, whatever that be for you.

ShootingStar1

Fairly Uncertain, I actually try to not ask about his recovery progress or methodology. It's really not something I want to know about because I have a tendency to be an overachiever and sometimes expect my husband to hit MY standards. I can't help him so its somewhat just torturing myself. If he wants to share I won't stop him but I'm not going to fish for information...it's not my program or problem. I did ask him this afternoon if his sponsor knows that he's currently exiled from our home and said that yes he knew and thought that my 30 day timeline was arbitrary (yes, jackass, arbitrary for YOU not me!) and then I asked if they (his AA group or sponsor) had said anything about distance from your wife or separating for a specific amount of time, and he said that no one has said anything about that. Further that no one is really taken seriously in his group until they complete the 90 meetings for 90 days and that once he completes a year they'll accept him as one of their own.

My life is completely off balance but it has been for some time now. It's just hard that there isn't another person here at all to help out and that there is no end date or deadline for this madness. This "go with the flow" stuff isn't how I operate. I like routines and planning and I want to know what to expect. Even more than that, I don't even know what I entirely want because its like it changes every day. On a bad day where I'm exhausted (by God, dealing with this stress is the most exhausting experience of my life and there is NO joy or reward in it) I just want my partner back to help me out. On a good day where I've got everything handled, I realize that he already lost me and I just hope he cleans himself up for our kids' sake, not mine. The later is empowering, the former is depressing and defeating. I hate feeling like I need him because I know I don't. But I do love him and I think I still want a very much improved, damn near perfect version of him if that becomes available to me.

I really do see a lot of myself in your posts, especially me in our early days of our separation. I was horrified & humiliated at the labels we now carried & I resented the hell out of RAH for dragging me blindly down this path. I wanted that same coin toss type of definitive answer - heads, it's worth sticking out; tails, duck & run. (my difference was that RAH was secret drinking & it escalated during our separation so I never really understood what I was fighting against.) People & emotions just don't work in such a cut & dry way though.

During that separation, I worked on ME because it was all I COULD control or do anything about. I did it to save my own sanity, literally, but the benefit I wasn't seeing at the time is that I had effectively started my own recovery before I even knew what I was doing. I had really, really lost touch with my instincts & no longer trusted my own intuitions & when I realized that it spoke VOLUMES to me about how out of balance I was. At that point my goal became centered around getting me healthy so that I could be a good role model for DD who was in kindergarten & dealing with her own transitional issues.

That puts us at very different points in our recoveries from that point forward - we stayed separated for a little over 2 yrs & then it was still a few months after he moved back in before the word Alcoholic came up or he sought sobriety. For me - that's when things really ramped up emotionally even though I had already been working on myself.... there was such a tremendous relief at knowing WHAT we were battling but taking the blinders off unleashed torrents of emotions from me. He may have unburdened many of his stressful secrets but I was just learning about a lot of it & having those truths out there was HARD. He was unburdening & I was just starting to come positively unglued. He had a great support system with AA, I was still struggling with all of life's responsibilities & felt more alone than ever before.

He went through 2+ yrs of sobriety without always actively working his recovery before relapse. I'm light years ahead of him in recovery because we work through it differently. At times it frustrates me that he can be so far "behind" but then I realize it truly is not for me to put a timeline on his recovery, nor is it up to me to judge how "right" or not he does it. I can't know the best path for him, I can only set limits to the amount of collateral damage I'm willing to suffer.

My best advice is to give yourself a break! I understand that you like to operate in absolutes, knowing exactly where the path will lead but in truth NONE of us ever has this kind of control in life regardless of whether we deal with addiction or not! Part of what you can gift to yourself is giving yourself permission to NOT have all the answers right now & accept that decisions you make today might change by tomorrow because you are going through BIG changes & you don't yet have enough information to decide on a complete course of action.... and that's ok! Start working on expectations by examining what you expect out of yourself & whether that's fair to you & fair as a barometer to judge everything else around you. I know that sounds really vague & almost accusatory, but figuring out what drives your need for this level of order & control can help in so many areas of your happiness!

In addition to learning about codependency, I also found it helpful to read a lot about the physiology & psychology of addiction. Charts, blogs, studies, whatever. I read a ton of biography's from the POV of the alcoholic, I learned a lot reading from other addicts & recovered addicts here at SR & found that they often articulated things RAH was struggling to put into words. It helped me to develop ways of building bridges between us at times, or to just open up an honest line of questioning without offending him.... leading to some great conversations & understandings.

Breathe, Stung. I've had the same feelings, the same issues that you talk about. However, you are very early in this process. My feelings about whether to fight for our marriage or not have wavered over the course of the past year (please know there was no physical abuse, and the only verbal abuse occurred when RAH was drunk). Initially, I was saving the marriage no matter what that meant. After awhile, I sat my mom down and discussed what was happening and told her that I would need her support - no matter what happened in/to our marriage. (We're Catholic & there is no divorce in my immediate family so her support was very important to me.) RAH continued drinking and I kicked him out of the house. I gradually became more comfortable with the idea of divorce and moving on post-divorce. By that point, RAH had stopped drinking & was working his recovery. We gradually started spending more time together and discussed the problems in our marriage (some non-A related issues as well as the A issues), and what would need to change if we were going to really work at the marriage. I stopped worrying about what happened in the past, what might happen in the future, and focused on what was happening today. Each day, he has consistently shown change & commitment to sobriety. Each day, I focus on myself.

I know you want the answers and you want them all now. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work this way. It's a process, a slow one, and one that occasionally goes backward instead of forward. Only you can make the decision about what is your next right step, but you don't have to make any decisions right away. Please don't stress about what your friends think of your marriage...they are not walking in your shoes so probably cannot really comprehend what you are feeling. Beyond that, a true friend will support your decision for your life (unless it is a repeated decision with disastrous consequences but your not there). You can also change your mind or make a different decision...it's your life so it's your right.

You seem to be experiencing a lot of anxiety right now...I've had my fair share of that, too. Anxiety (as discussed just this week with my counselor) is worrying about the future. All you can really change is what you are doing right now...you can't change what RAH is doing now or will do tomorrow or next year. I think you said you have an appointment with a counselor coming up...they can help you with some tools to help with the anxiety.

More will be revealed. I think I hated that slogan at first, but it now brings me a lot of comfort. Hugs, Stung.

Well, I told him that I thought it best that we continue living separately and he agreed. His only request was that I not put a definitive time constraint on how long he has to be gone and he'll just do a month to month lease so if/when it feels right we can just make a decision organically.

Then I called him back, took a very deep breath and said "we're just living separately. You're not going to date anyone or have anyone at your apartment right?" And he yelled "WHAT?! I'm either dating you or I'm becoming a priest!" Okay, okay, good enough for me. Irish catholic alcoholic...I think he might make a decent priest except that the Catholic Church won't have him. Lol