just an update from me
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
just an update from me
Goodmorning all,
I hope everyone has had a nice Christmas.
A few weeks have passed now, as some know my boyfriend is in Rehab in South Africa. He is in his third week.
I am finally enjoying my to weeks off from work with my kids, one of the advantages of working at a school.
In between my first post and this one there has happened a lot. With him not around I'm getting some time to breath and get some strength back. Which is a good thing.
I've talked a few times with him on the phone, and we've been on skype 2 times. Sunday we were talking and he told me that the day before he was in a angry mood, he said it was part of a stage in rehab. He was angry because of the food they were getting. They get chicken, rice and salad everyday and the brochure suggested a chef's menu. It got so bad he had been throwing with the food (and told the people there if it didn't change, he would be leaving ( I was thinking in my mind; No, that's no stage, that's so you, what were you thinking?
You're in South Africa in my knowledge rice, chicken and salad are the main ingredients there). But it is a good thing it happened, so I reacted with a smile and said I know you miss the food from home but for now you have to do it with theirs.
He told me the program is hard, but he's fine, next week he will go to phase 2, he has found a sponsor and so he will get more freedom.
In the meantime I've written and send my "letter of damage" to his counselor here in the Netherlands. She said it was a good letter but wanted specific details like; time, place, what he exactly said, who were there...
And I can't. Why? because it all happened at a daily basis the past 3 years, I can't name friends by name because they are are supporting me but they are also his friends and for him you are either with him or against him, I don't want trouble when he comes back.
I also told her that I've been putting a wall up for him, I didn't show him my emotions for a long time, when bad things happened because I didn't want him to use it against me.
So I gave her a few examples in an email so she knew a few things... Then I got a response in which she told me: thanks I will forward this letter to his therapist in South Africa... So I mailed her again and said, I'm sorry you can't if you will then I can not support him anymore... Because he will misuse the info.
At the end of the day she phoned me, and said she would not be forwarding my e-mail because she had just received an update from the clinic. So i asked her what was in it because I spoke with him the day before and he said the program was hard, but was doing well and that he had gotten angry about the food... there was a silence and then she said well, I've read you letter and your mail and now I read their update, I understand you because in their update it is stated that he can't talk about his feelings and when there is an argument and there have been a few he doesn't want to see his own part in it. So they are going to work on that, but I understand that it will not help you in a good way...
I told her about my doubts, because some of his friends are laughing about him and they are telling, my best friend in this situation, that he won't make it and when he comes back they are going to test him so he will fail!
Such a nice bunch of nice friends....
I know he will finish his 60 days there I'm just afraid about him coming back in this town with this kind of people around him.
He needs a sponsor here and I know he has to do this and I cannot help him, but I'm sitting on my hands because I'd really like to phone the man from AA here explain the situation and ask him if he would like to visit my boyfriend when he comes home just to give him a good start and a change here.
Can I or is it a bad idea? ( my first reaction actually was confronting those friends face to face and tell them to be a real friend or stay the h*ll away from him)
I also got some information video links from his counselor in English, should I put those links here in the forum?
I hope everyone has had a nice Christmas.
A few weeks have passed now, as some know my boyfriend is in Rehab in South Africa. He is in his third week.
I am finally enjoying my to weeks off from work with my kids, one of the advantages of working at a school.
In between my first post and this one there has happened a lot. With him not around I'm getting some time to breath and get some strength back. Which is a good thing.
I've talked a few times with him on the phone, and we've been on skype 2 times. Sunday we were talking and he told me that the day before he was in a angry mood, he said it was part of a stage in rehab. He was angry because of the food they were getting. They get chicken, rice and salad everyday and the brochure suggested a chef's menu. It got so bad he had been throwing with the food (and told the people there if it didn't change, he would be leaving ( I was thinking in my mind; No, that's no stage, that's so you, what were you thinking?
You're in South Africa in my knowledge rice, chicken and salad are the main ingredients there). But it is a good thing it happened, so I reacted with a smile and said I know you miss the food from home but for now you have to do it with theirs. He told me the program is hard, but he's fine, next week he will go to phase 2, he has found a sponsor and so he will get more freedom.
In the meantime I've written and send my "letter of damage" to his counselor here in the Netherlands. She said it was a good letter but wanted specific details like; time, place, what he exactly said, who were there...
And I can't. Why? because it all happened at a daily basis the past 3 years, I can't name friends by name because they are are supporting me but they are also his friends and for him you are either with him or against him, I don't want trouble when he comes back.
I also told her that I've been putting a wall up for him, I didn't show him my emotions for a long time, when bad things happened because I didn't want him to use it against me.
So I gave her a few examples in an email so she knew a few things... Then I got a response in which she told me: thanks I will forward this letter to his therapist in South Africa... So I mailed her again and said, I'm sorry you can't if you will then I can not support him anymore... Because he will misuse the info.
At the end of the day she phoned me, and said she would not be forwarding my e-mail because she had just received an update from the clinic. So i asked her what was in it because I spoke with him the day before and he said the program was hard, but was doing well and that he had gotten angry about the food... there was a silence and then she said well, I've read you letter and your mail and now I read their update, I understand you because in their update it is stated that he can't talk about his feelings and when there is an argument and there have been a few he doesn't want to see his own part in it. So they are going to work on that, but I understand that it will not help you in a good way...
I told her about my doubts, because some of his friends are laughing about him and they are telling, my best friend in this situation, that he won't make it and when he comes back they are going to test him so he will fail!
Such a nice bunch of nice friends....
I know he will finish his 60 days there I'm just afraid about him coming back in this town with this kind of people around him.
He needs a sponsor here and I know he has to do this and I cannot help him, but I'm sitting on my hands because I'd really like to phone the man from AA here explain the situation and ask him if he would like to visit my boyfriend when he comes home just to give him a good start and a change here.
Can I or is it a bad idea? ( my first reaction actually was confronting those friends face to face and tell them to be a real friend or stay the h*ll away from him)
I also got some information video links from his counselor in English, should I put those links here in the forum?
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hello clematis,
I'm happy to hear that he seems to be doing well and making progress in rehab. I certainly understand the desire to place him in a big protective bubble so that he will be OK, but that's just not possible. Once he leaves rehab, he has to work this all out for himself, the temptations, the triggers, the stresses of everyday life. We all learn how to handle these things without drugs or alcohol. This is a struggle he will have to fight on his own.
I'm happy to hear that he seems to be doing well and making progress in rehab. I certainly understand the desire to place him in a big protective bubble so that he will be OK, but that's just not possible. Once he leaves rehab, he has to work this all out for himself, the temptations, the triggers, the stresses of everyday life. We all learn how to handle these things without drugs or alcohol. This is a struggle he will have to fight on his own.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Hi Clematis,
Like you, I was in a relationship with an A who actually went into numerous rehabs during our relationship. I participated in the group therapy and even couples counseling, visited and supported his recovery efforts 100%. I actually manipulated and forced many rehab attempts in my severe codependency and controlling issues.
What I learned is that rehab can be a great start to a possible recovery it is in reality only geography and a controlled environment where the A can either choose to immerse himself or herself into becoming transparent and willing to do whatever it takes to find their way out or not... often they are just marking time to get loved ones to lighten up or reduce consequences.
Authentic recovery is in the heart and mind of the A... they have to be willing to look at their addiction through the lens of truth including the carnage and destruction they have wrought on those around them. Right now... it appears that your A is unwilling to do this step and is still in denial and blameshifting is still in play. What this means for the future is that he is not putting on a "new pair of glasses" to see his world through.
In my case... I stuck in with my XA for years and years in out of active addiction and in the end it was all for nothing because he never got to the place that he was truly willing to do whatever it takes and he never initiated his recovery personally. He had never been vested... the struggle wasn't his so to speak.
Fast forward... I finanlly got better! I came here... started going to open AA meetings which is something you can do there in your hometown. You will learn a lot about alcoholism in open AA meetings and the 12 step program we both share with alanon. I joined alanon. REad every book I could find. I read every sticky...more than once. started posted here. And I got off the alcoholic crazy train and he careened off to drink, get arrested, get homeless for two more years.
Then... HE... alone....for the first time got sober all by his lonesome in another state. HE... has stayed sober, gotten a job and talks about his past with true remorse and wisdom. The many rehab stays, AA involvement, Celebrate Recovery history, counseling for years and years are paying off now because he has the tools... always had them but NEVER used them because he never personally broke up with alcohol forever... until NOW.
Alcoholism is a family disease and it affects those who are around it. Alcoholism doesn't run in my family...it flows through it like Niagara Falls! If we children are not alcoholics we choose to marry them... and that is a warning I want to share. Your children are learning about relationships from watching you Mom and your history is choosing men with life controlling problems and the last thing you want is for them to choose partners that are addictive. I would shield them as much as I could and in my case I got my own children counseling so I could break the cycle of addiction in the next generation. IT worked and they are fine!
I understand there is no close alanon but did you know there is a great place online where you can listen to Alanon speakers? You can learn a lot from those tapes and stories. You can also get a sponsor and go through the steps over the phone. You can find online meetings too!
Google XA speakers and there is alanon section. There are whole series on the steps and it all helps so much.
Bottom line. Your A has to find his own way out of his addiction. I personally believe that AA and the steps are a great way to establish a new way of living but he has to come to that conclusion. It won't stick if it is not in his heart and mind to do whatever it takes. It will take a new way of looking at things (a new pair of glasses), new friends that don't thing getting drunk is the way to have fun, learning new ways to cope with lifes struggles instead of a drink.
He has to face the wreckage of his past because deep within is part of why he drinks. To not drink is to lose the excuse of failure because of the drinking... it is scary to many to face life without alcohol. They cannot even begin to consider forever without alcohol.
Most...most fail to stay sober. And this is what you must consider for yourself and your kids. Is he relationship material? REally? If you still think he might be don't you think it would be good if you kept your distance to see if he can put his life back together all by himself without your guiding and directing? They must learn to live sober without someone hovering and helicoptering because it is demeaning to treat them like children and that is exactly what I used to do to my XA!
Today my XA is doing GREAT...because I got out of the way and let his HP control his destiny. Those two years are book material and there were several miracles... God Shots if you will. Divine Interventions in action. Had I been forcing him into rehabs that were doing NO GOOD he wouldn't have had to learn how to fly and live on his own. Now he has pride, he has dignity and he is putting his life together on his own.
And we are just friends. He wants more. But he is an alcoholic and I don't want to ever chance that kind of life again. Not ever. Give yourself time and space and more will be revealed and you might make the same kind of decision.
Or not... maybe he will defy the odds and get into authentic recovery but right now it does not look good at all!
TAke care of you! Focus on you and your recovery. Find out why you choose men who are emotionally unavailable and have life controlling issues. Protect your kids!
Sorry so long but I know you can't get to an alanon meeting in Holland so I thought I would share my E,S and H with you about rehabs not being a silver bullet.
Like you, I was in a relationship with an A who actually went into numerous rehabs during our relationship. I participated in the group therapy and even couples counseling, visited and supported his recovery efforts 100%. I actually manipulated and forced many rehab attempts in my severe codependency and controlling issues.
What I learned is that rehab can be a great start to a possible recovery it is in reality only geography and a controlled environment where the A can either choose to immerse himself or herself into becoming transparent and willing to do whatever it takes to find their way out or not... often they are just marking time to get loved ones to lighten up or reduce consequences.
Authentic recovery is in the heart and mind of the A... they have to be willing to look at their addiction through the lens of truth including the carnage and destruction they have wrought on those around them. Right now... it appears that your A is unwilling to do this step and is still in denial and blameshifting is still in play. What this means for the future is that he is not putting on a "new pair of glasses" to see his world through.
In my case... I stuck in with my XA for years and years in out of active addiction and in the end it was all for nothing because he never got to the place that he was truly willing to do whatever it takes and he never initiated his recovery personally. He had never been vested... the struggle wasn't his so to speak.
Fast forward... I finanlly got better! I came here... started going to open AA meetings which is something you can do there in your hometown. You will learn a lot about alcoholism in open AA meetings and the 12 step program we both share with alanon. I joined alanon. REad every book I could find. I read every sticky...more than once. started posted here. And I got off the alcoholic crazy train and he careened off to drink, get arrested, get homeless for two more years.
Then... HE... alone....for the first time got sober all by his lonesome in another state. HE... has stayed sober, gotten a job and talks about his past with true remorse and wisdom. The many rehab stays, AA involvement, Celebrate Recovery history, counseling for years and years are paying off now because he has the tools... always had them but NEVER used them because he never personally broke up with alcohol forever... until NOW.
Alcoholism is a family disease and it affects those who are around it. Alcoholism doesn't run in my family...it flows through it like Niagara Falls! If we children are not alcoholics we choose to marry them... and that is a warning I want to share. Your children are learning about relationships from watching you Mom and your history is choosing men with life controlling problems and the last thing you want is for them to choose partners that are addictive. I would shield them as much as I could and in my case I got my own children counseling so I could break the cycle of addiction in the next generation. IT worked and they are fine!
I understand there is no close alanon but did you know there is a great place online where you can listen to Alanon speakers? You can learn a lot from those tapes and stories. You can also get a sponsor and go through the steps over the phone. You can find online meetings too!
Google XA speakers and there is alanon section. There are whole series on the steps and it all helps so much.
Bottom line. Your A has to find his own way out of his addiction. I personally believe that AA and the steps are a great way to establish a new way of living but he has to come to that conclusion. It won't stick if it is not in his heart and mind to do whatever it takes. It will take a new way of looking at things (a new pair of glasses), new friends that don't thing getting drunk is the way to have fun, learning new ways to cope with lifes struggles instead of a drink.
He has to face the wreckage of his past because deep within is part of why he drinks. To not drink is to lose the excuse of failure because of the drinking... it is scary to many to face life without alcohol. They cannot even begin to consider forever without alcohol.
Most...most fail to stay sober. And this is what you must consider for yourself and your kids. Is he relationship material? REally? If you still think he might be don't you think it would be good if you kept your distance to see if he can put his life back together all by himself without your guiding and directing? They must learn to live sober without someone hovering and helicoptering because it is demeaning to treat them like children and that is exactly what I used to do to my XA!
Today my XA is doing GREAT...because I got out of the way and let his HP control his destiny. Those two years are book material and there were several miracles... God Shots if you will. Divine Interventions in action. Had I been forcing him into rehabs that were doing NO GOOD he wouldn't have had to learn how to fly and live on his own. Now he has pride, he has dignity and he is putting his life together on his own.
And we are just friends. He wants more. But he is an alcoholic and I don't want to ever chance that kind of life again. Not ever. Give yourself time and space and more will be revealed and you might make the same kind of decision.
Or not... maybe he will defy the odds and get into authentic recovery but right now it does not look good at all!
TAke care of you! Focus on you and your recovery. Find out why you choose men who are emotionally unavailable and have life controlling issues. Protect your kids!
Sorry so long but I know you can't get to an alanon meeting in Holland so I thought I would share my E,S and H with you about rehabs not being a silver bullet.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
Hopeworks this is exactly what i was thinking I couldn't put it to words, but I was thinking maybe I worry too much...
this goes over and over and over in my head; if he can't see what his part is will that be a problem or will it not, during the rehab program? From what I understand after speedreading the big book it is an important part of the 12 step program.
The counselor has invited me again to an education meeting, I explained why I'm not going, but she is pushing very hard. I told her that it may sound hard but I'm drawing a hard line in how far I'm willing to go to support him.
She doesn't like it, that's for sure. But I told her I've made an account here on this forum and that this feels good for me because I feel safe enough to be open and to talk and I can read how other people handle it. Maybe I'm harsh to her but I don't want his rehab to fully control/take over my life, it has gone far enough. Especially when I can't say he is totally committed, that's something I will have to see when he comes back. As long as he is there, he safe there for all I know.
As for staying in this relationship I've had a lot of time to think how I see it and how I'd like it to be, I have a lot of doubts that's obvious, but I also love him. I've made a big step in my "letter of damage" The letter I hated to write and caused a lot of tears. I had to end with "a bottom line" Which was the hardest for me to make... And I'm very afraid that the day will come I have to keep that promise, I hope he proves me wrong so much.
I've put my letter down here; So if it doesn't work out I'll have to keep my word, just because it is here and people know what I promised... There I go;
Dear *****,
I have to write you this letter, it's part of your program, but it's very hard for me to do.
We met when you already had developed a problem. So I had to deal with it my way, and accept that there was nothing I could do about it.
This letter isn't about me trying to hurt you, I love you very much, please remember that.
When you drink I get so frustrated and worried about you and what is going to happen after a few hours because, when you drink you can be so mean and harsh, even rude towards me but also when you talk to your friends about me, It hurts me so much, I sometimes just wanna scream and hurt you back, So that you feel what I feel. I feel people laughing behind my back, because of the way you have talked about me.
Sometimes I so desperately needed to talk to you about things, sometimes important, sometimes nothing special but just because I wanted to talk to YOU! After a few times I stopped trying because you just simply shut me out, you even said a few times “I don't care, I don't need to know” I felt like a dog, hit by a stick. It hurts.
It has hurt me seeing you sit at your table drinking day by day, by day, just getting more frustrated (that's how I saw it) I wanted to get you out of your 4 safe walls, but you just sat there.
You know what I remember? The day we went to the supermarket, it happened once that was a good day and you probably don't even remember it.
I can make this list longer but I picked these things because you probably don't have a clue about how I feel and how I've felt.
But what hurts me the most is seeing you drink yourself to death one day, you are hurting yourself the most!
I need you to stop, I need you to be sober.
My worst nightmare is not having you here with me one day. You are too smart to let it come that far. The last few weeks you made me so happy. I didn't have to choose between my kids and you, I felt welcome and it felt real. It made me love you more and it gave me a little bit more trust.
And now I have to make a “bottom line”
If you come back I will be here, we can take it one day at a time, as long as you really keep trying and give it all you've got.
If you don't I will leave. I'll have to for my own sake.
this goes over and over and over in my head; if he can't see what his part is will that be a problem or will it not, during the rehab program? From what I understand after speedreading the big book it is an important part of the 12 step program.
The counselor has invited me again to an education meeting, I explained why I'm not going, but she is pushing very hard. I told her that it may sound hard but I'm drawing a hard line in how far I'm willing to go to support him.
She doesn't like it, that's for sure. But I told her I've made an account here on this forum and that this feels good for me because I feel safe enough to be open and to talk and I can read how other people handle it. Maybe I'm harsh to her but I don't want his rehab to fully control/take over my life, it has gone far enough. Especially when I can't say he is totally committed, that's something I will have to see when he comes back. As long as he is there, he safe there for all I know.
As for staying in this relationship I've had a lot of time to think how I see it and how I'd like it to be, I have a lot of doubts that's obvious, but I also love him. I've made a big step in my "letter of damage" The letter I hated to write and caused a lot of tears. I had to end with "a bottom line" Which was the hardest for me to make... And I'm very afraid that the day will come I have to keep that promise, I hope he proves me wrong so much.
I've put my letter down here; So if it doesn't work out I'll have to keep my word, just because it is here and people know what I promised... There I go;
Dear *****,
I have to write you this letter, it's part of your program, but it's very hard for me to do.
We met when you already had developed a problem. So I had to deal with it my way, and accept that there was nothing I could do about it.
This letter isn't about me trying to hurt you, I love you very much, please remember that.
When you drink I get so frustrated and worried about you and what is going to happen after a few hours because, when you drink you can be so mean and harsh, even rude towards me but also when you talk to your friends about me, It hurts me so much, I sometimes just wanna scream and hurt you back, So that you feel what I feel. I feel people laughing behind my back, because of the way you have talked about me.
Sometimes I so desperately needed to talk to you about things, sometimes important, sometimes nothing special but just because I wanted to talk to YOU! After a few times I stopped trying because you just simply shut me out, you even said a few times “I don't care, I don't need to know” I felt like a dog, hit by a stick. It hurts.
It has hurt me seeing you sit at your table drinking day by day, by day, just getting more frustrated (that's how I saw it) I wanted to get you out of your 4 safe walls, but you just sat there.
You know what I remember? The day we went to the supermarket, it happened once that was a good day and you probably don't even remember it.
I can make this list longer but I picked these things because you probably don't have a clue about how I feel and how I've felt.
But what hurts me the most is seeing you drink yourself to death one day, you are hurting yourself the most!
I need you to stop, I need you to be sober.
My worst nightmare is not having you here with me one day. You are too smart to let it come that far. The last few weeks you made me so happy. I didn't have to choose between my kids and you, I felt welcome and it felt real. It made me love you more and it gave me a little bit more trust.
And now I have to make a “bottom line”
If you come back I will be here, we can take it one day at a time, as long as you really keep trying and give it all you've got.
If you don't I will leave. I'll have to for my own sake.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
I've found the 12 steps for F&F on the forum, I'm going to start on working those steps, maybe it will help me to sort things out by thinking and analysing the questions and my answers. I hope my english is good enough to understand the questions. Too bad there is no alanon in town here, it would be nice to talk and discuss those steps.
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Originally Posted by clematis 
I've found the 12 steps for F&F on the forum, I'm going to start on working those steps, maybe it will help me to sort things out by thinking and analysing the questions and my answers. I hope my english is good enough to understand the questions. Too bad there is no alanon in town here, it would be nice to talk and discuss those steps.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
al-anon 2 hours by bus and by train to get there, then the meeting and then I have to get back. this means I will be stuck on a station because there no bus going home anymore
The meeting in zwolle 1 hour and 15 min. by bus and train, but this is a family meeting where they prepare you for your partner coming home and supporting him. i think that is something different, than al-anon.
The other one is somewhat the same and this one is in Voorthuizen it is a 2 and a half hour (bus/bus/train/train/bus) but this is also on the focus of education about supporting your partner coming home from rehab...
The other thing is I work I don't talk about my private things at work, I keep them seperated. So Voorthuizen is not an option because I don't know at what time I finish, the other thing is my kids. I'm not gonna leave them alone, with me being so far away. I don't like the idea. I never leave them alone for long. They are my first priority. I asked some friends, they would help me out but they all work in the evening... ( puts on todo list: drivers license)
The meeting in zwolle 1 hour and 15 min. by bus and train, but this is a family meeting where they prepare you for your partner coming home and supporting him. i think that is something different, than al-anon.
The other one is somewhat the same and this one is in Voorthuizen it is a 2 and a half hour (bus/bus/train/train/bus) but this is also on the focus of education about supporting your partner coming home from rehab...
The other thing is I work I don't talk about my private things at work, I keep them seperated. So Voorthuizen is not an option because I don't know at what time I finish, the other thing is my kids. I'm not gonna leave them alone, with me being so far away. I don't like the idea. I never leave them alone for long. They are my first priority. I asked some friends, they would help me out but they all work in the evening... ( puts on todo list: drivers license)
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
happy newyear everyone... An hour ago I had a phonecall from my ABF the normal chit-chat... I asked him how he was doing with his twelve steps... He told me he is still in step one... after this he told me: They told me I have to write a letter to you about the ways I have hurt you because of my drinking... he says he didn't read my letter yet, he is going to in a short while.. I told him my letter was not a hard one, just some stuff that keeps going on in my mind that I wanted him to know... I hoped he would be more relaxed and didn't worry too much about it... He said, well my letter to you has to be approximately 3 sides... then he laughed and said; well you know it can be shorter than that, I'll write that I didn't do anything to you that could possibly have hurt you but actually you've hurt me, and he laughed...
Hopeworks words were at that point the only thing I could think off... So I laughed it off and said: Yeah, you could do that! They will take you serious if you write that down, you'll definitely will score some points there... I hope he's just teasing me, but if he does that I'm outta here, so sorry... To be honest I feel very sad right now... I so hope he proves me wrong but I'm scared...
Hopeworks words were at that point the only thing I could think off... So I laughed it off and said: Yeah, you could do that! They will take you serious if you write that down, you'll definitely will score some points there... I hope he's just teasing me, but if he does that I'm outta here, so sorry... To be honest I feel very sad right now... I so hope he proves me wrong but I'm scared...
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