Question about detachment
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Originally Posted by Stung 
Oh, the lies. He lied to me last night and I called him out on it. He then claimed that he "misspoke" to which I suggested that we look up the definition of a lie, and then he apologized for lying to me.
My husband lies, about big things, little things and a hundred other things that I don't even care about. He exaggerates too. But I'm either overly confident or naive but I think he's actually honest when he tells me how he feels about me. I think. I hope. :/
My husband lies, about big things, little things and a hundred other things that I don't even care about. He exaggerates too. But I'm either overly confident or naive but I think he's actually honest when he tells me how he feels about me. I think. I hope. :/
The Lies.
Was just CONSTANT after Rehab.
The kids and I called it "100 Lies in 100 Days." (sort of mocking 90 meetings in 90 days).
They seem to have tapered down. Not too many people listen to them very much, any more.
Has some serious talks with some AA folks. That is sort of like a "Fever" or something they get for up to year after drying out sets in.
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I had to have a little space/detachment from the good things also.
I was so invested in what I heard him say, how he WANTED to be that I often overlooked what ACTUALLY was.
I always seemed to give HIM the benefit of the doubt. When things did not go well I tended to heap that on me.
In essence I had to give both the bad and the good back to him.
For me detachment was more about figuring out what was "mine" to control, and letting go of what I could not. That was less about postive/negative and more about what I actually could do something about.
I was so invested in what I heard him say, how he WANTED to be that I often overlooked what ACTUALLY was.
I always seemed to give HIM the benefit of the doubt. When things did not go well I tended to heap that on me.
In essence I had to give both the bad and the good back to him.
For me detachment was more about figuring out what was "mine" to control, and letting go of what I could not. That was less about postive/negative and more about what I actually could do something about.
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^^^^ YES! That!! This is like you're reading my text messages and listening to my phone calls. Everything lately is about what he's going to do and how things are going to be. The last few days it has been a stream of "I miss you" coming from him, so this morning I finally asked him why he misses me and the response I received in return was really sweet but I'm unsure of whether I should allow that to make me feel good or just ignore it. I think I'm just going to detach from him unless we're talking about day to day stuff.
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For me, detachment is less about what I am feeling (which is not under my control - iam going to feel however I feel whether I like it or not), than it is about what I DO with that feeling.
In the instance of my XABF doing something that had a positive effect on my emotional state, I had to learn to stop making decisions based on that temporary data. It is the same with the negative, I guess. I had to start Acting rather than Reacting, and to stop treating Feelings as Facts. They aren't facts.
In the case of these messages you are getting...remember that what counts are actions. Words are easy and they are cheap. Action requires real effort and time. Sending you strength and patience and hugs.
In the instance of my XABF doing something that had a positive effect on my emotional state, I had to learn to stop making decisions based on that temporary data. It is the same with the negative, I guess. I had to start Acting rather than Reacting, and to stop treating Feelings as Facts. They aren't facts.
In the case of these messages you are getting...remember that what counts are actions. Words are easy and they are cheap. Action requires real effort and time. Sending you strength and patience and hugs.
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I would just say, "Be. Careful." And I think you are. I think you're doing an amazing job with all of this, but here's what I'm getting at...
It took me a long time to really get that the alcoholic doesn't give/receive in the same ways that a healthy person does. Compliments and praises and 'I miss you's' can carry way different motive coming from an alcoholic who sees his spouse growing stronger, detaching, no longer putting up with their crap, etc. Sweet words can be served up as a big helping of manipulation. Telling us what they are 'going to do' and 'how things are going to be' is easy. They know what we want to hear, and they're not afraid to say it when they see things start to slip away.
You are all those wonderful things he says you are, whether he says them or not. And he may very well intend to choose healing and to be the husband and father you and your children deserve. I'm so hopeful for all of you that he will. But only time will tell. Actions, not words. Actions, not words. Actions, not words.
I like Hammer's equating detachment to distance and safety. That's really what it's about...preserving yourself and your sanity for you and your children. You'll start to learn what you can let in and what you need to let roll off your back. The good stuff makes us feel good temporarily, but as others said, there are feelings and there are facts. Give it time. You're doing really well.
It took me a long time to really get that the alcoholic doesn't give/receive in the same ways that a healthy person does. Compliments and praises and 'I miss you's' can carry way different motive coming from an alcoholic who sees his spouse growing stronger, detaching, no longer putting up with their crap, etc. Sweet words can be served up as a big helping of manipulation. Telling us what they are 'going to do' and 'how things are going to be' is easy. They know what we want to hear, and they're not afraid to say it when they see things start to slip away.
You are all those wonderful things he says you are, whether he says them or not. And he may very well intend to choose healing and to be the husband and father you and your children deserve. I'm so hopeful for all of you that he will. But only time will tell. Actions, not words. Actions, not words. Actions, not words.
I like Hammer's equating detachment to distance and safety. That's really what it's about...preserving yourself and your sanity for you and your children. You'll start to learn what you can let in and what you need to let roll off your back. The good stuff makes us feel good temporarily, but as others said, there are feelings and there are facts. Give it time. You're doing really well.
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Originally Posted by HealingWillCome
I would just say, "Be. Careful." And I think you are. I think you're doing an amazing job with all of this, but here's what I'm getting at...
It took me a long time to really get that the alcoholic doesn't give/receive in the same ways that a healthy person does. Compliments and praises and 'I miss you's' can carry way different motive coming from an alcoholic who sees his spouse growing stronger, detaching, no longer putting up with their crap, etc. Sweet words can be served up as a big helping of manipulation. Telling us what they are 'going to do' and 'how things are going to be' is easy. They know what we want to hear, and they're not afraid to say it when they see things start to slip away.
You are all those wonderful things he says you are, whether he says them or not. And he may very well intend to choose healing and to be the husband and father you and your children deserve. I'm so hopeful for all of you that he will. But only time will tell. Actions, not words. Actions, not words. Actions, not words.
I like Hammer's equating detachment to distance and safety. That's really what it's about...preserving yourself and your sanity for you and your children. You'll start to learn what you can let in and what you need to let roll off your back. The good stuff makes us feel good temporarily, but as others said, there are feelings and there are facts. Give it time. You're doing really well.
It took me a long time to really get that the alcoholic doesn't give/receive in the same ways that a healthy person does. Compliments and praises and 'I miss you's' can carry way different motive coming from an alcoholic who sees his spouse growing stronger, detaching, no longer putting up with their crap, etc. Sweet words can be served up as a big helping of manipulation. Telling us what they are 'going to do' and 'how things are going to be' is easy. They know what we want to hear, and they're not afraid to say it when they see things start to slip away.
You are all those wonderful things he says you are, whether he says them or not. And he may very well intend to choose healing and to be the husband and father you and your children deserve. I'm so hopeful for all of you that he will. But only time will tell. Actions, not words. Actions, not words. Actions, not words.
I like Hammer's equating detachment to distance and safety. That's really what it's about...preserving yourself and your sanity for you and your children. You'll start to learn what you can let in and what you need to let roll off your back. The good stuff makes us feel good temporarily, but as others said, there are feelings and there are facts. Give it time. You're doing really well.
Secondly, that makes me want to cry because that's exactly what I suspect. I feel like my husband has become my enemy. It's so F'd up. I am not a people person. I generally am distrusting because its in human nature to give into temptation and steal if a good enough opportunity presents itself. I feel so gullible.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. ******* keeps fooling me and I have no one to blame but myself now.
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Hey Stung, I'm a little late to this thread but here's $0.02, lol.
I agree that you have multiple issues going on with detachment, trust, etc. IMO, it's part of what is so confusing about recovery - sometimes the issues themselves are difficult to separate for proper treatment.
For me, detachment is just a temporary tool that I pull out to use when appropriate. While I definitely exercised it during good times as a defense mechanism in the very earliest days of my recovery process, I didn't continue to do that. I need/use it more for difficult times vs. living in it day-to-day. I don't think that *I* could live in detachment continuously because it starts to feel so very cold, IMO, and that's just not who I *am*. But it is invaluable during crisis moments because it helps me to stay calm, on track & productive. Kind of like a real-life life preserver.
I refused to get excited about anything positive he said or did for a while because that was how I truly FELT - not because I was using it as a weapon to punish him. (not saying you are, just wanted to be clear on this point from my POV because I saw the potential TO use it as a weapon at one point, it's tempting.) It gets scrambled because you suddenly find yourself having to defend yourself against the one person you never expected to have to do that with..... AND they know all of your weaknesses & exposure points.
Like Sparklekitty pointed out - it's about his actions matching his words & as Hammer said ---- it can take a while for their brains to unscramble enough to even see the lying, etc in order to be able to keep the actions matching the words. Time & honest effort are what will help rebuild the trust that will help you figure out what you can believe & what is ultimately quacking.
Since I have a background in accounting I'll also throw this out there - it doesn't work like a balance sheet or a set of balanced books where every debit has a corresponding & balancing credit somewhere to offset it. In fact, in my experience it NEVER really seemed balanced at all.... his needs were more critical and unpredictable, I still had more responsibility because his drinking time became meeting/AA time, etc. When/if he starts to make progress that you can see, it isn't a straight line to results & knowing that ahead of time can also help you deal with expectations & resentments.
(((HUGS)))) You're doing great!
I agree that you have multiple issues going on with detachment, trust, etc. IMO, it's part of what is so confusing about recovery - sometimes the issues themselves are difficult to separate for proper treatment.
For me, detachment is just a temporary tool that I pull out to use when appropriate. While I definitely exercised it during good times as a defense mechanism in the very earliest days of my recovery process, I didn't continue to do that. I need/use it more for difficult times vs. living in it day-to-day. I don't think that *I* could live in detachment continuously because it starts to feel so very cold, IMO, and that's just not who I *am*. But it is invaluable during crisis moments because it helps me to stay calm, on track & productive. Kind of like a real-life life preserver.
I refused to get excited about anything positive he said or did for a while because that was how I truly FELT - not because I was using it as a weapon to punish him. (not saying you are, just wanted to be clear on this point from my POV because I saw the potential TO use it as a weapon at one point, it's tempting.) It gets scrambled because you suddenly find yourself having to defend yourself against the one person you never expected to have to do that with..... AND they know all of your weaknesses & exposure points.
Like Sparklekitty pointed out - it's about his actions matching his words & as Hammer said ---- it can take a while for their brains to unscramble enough to even see the lying, etc in order to be able to keep the actions matching the words. Time & honest effort are what will help rebuild the trust that will help you figure out what you can believe & what is ultimately quacking.
Since I have a background in accounting I'll also throw this out there - it doesn't work like a balance sheet or a set of balanced books where every debit has a corresponding & balancing credit somewhere to offset it. In fact, in my experience it NEVER really seemed balanced at all.... his needs were more critical and unpredictable, I still had more responsibility because his drinking time became meeting/AA time, etc. When/if he starts to make progress that you can see, it isn't a straight line to results & knowing that ahead of time can also help you deal with expectations & resentments.
(((HUGS)))) You're doing great!
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Not meant to make you cry, I promise. Just wishing the best for you because I have been there and it hurts. Deeper than I ever imagined pain could feel.
We give love and expect to be loved in a healthy way. Alcoholics have to re-learn how to do that. Your husband has a long road ahead. Lots of healing will need to take place before he is capable of fully giving you what you need and deserve. Yes, very F'd up and that sucks, really bad, because in the meantime you have yourself and your children to care for. But you are doing very, very well in finding your way. Really. I promise.
Your husband no doubt loves you and completely understands what he has messed up. I have no doubt about it. I don't think alcoholics are completely numb to love. It's just the healthy kind of love that we need to hold out for.
We give love and expect to be loved in a healthy way. Alcoholics have to re-learn how to do that. Your husband has a long road ahead. Lots of healing will need to take place before he is capable of fully giving you what you need and deserve. Yes, very F'd up and that sucks, really bad, because in the meantime you have yourself and your children to care for. But you are doing very, very well in finding your way. Really. I promise.
Your husband no doubt loves you and completely understands what he has messed up. I have no doubt about it. I don't think alcoholics are completely numb to love. It's just the healthy kind of love that we need to hold out for.
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I want balance, and AH is a boatload of chaos. Even pre-addiction hubby wasn't balanced it then it was like a cute opposites attract kind of thing. Now it's like WTF is wrong with you, your **** is so all over the place, figure it out!!
Without him here my home is better balanced than when we have two parents here. Sad but true.
Without him here my home is better balanced than when we have two parents here. Sad but true.
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Detachment took a lot of practice for me....still takes a lot of practice. Mr. S and I became very well versed in detaching from his son's crazy and dangerous behavior while on crack. We learned to try to enjoy the brief moments of "him" that pop to the surface when he is actively using.
Getting to this point takes work and practice....learning how to enjoy the moments when you can get them. I think, though, that this is a more acceptable way to be a part of someone's life if it is an adult child or parent. If this were my husband, then I'm not sure that this 'catch as catch can' way of living would be OK with me.
Getting to this point takes work and practice....learning how to enjoy the moments when you can get them. I think, though, that this is a more acceptable way to be a part of someone's life if it is an adult child or parent. If this were my husband, then I'm not sure that this 'catch as catch can' way of living would be OK with me.
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Hi Stung, detachment is a great topic and a really hard topic at the same time. It's one of those things you can get and still can't begin to explain.
I've been thinking for a couple of days on how to post to this. Finally with a recent post you gave me a foundation to build on.
So, to answer this question I would say yes, let it make you feel good and yes just ignore it. It other words what said was sweet and made you feel happy but you don't need to attach anything more to it than that. It doesn't mean he found recovery, it doesn't mean things are working out and it doesn't mean the future is all bright and shiny.
It simply means that in that moment he said something nice, no more, no less.
For me detachment is seeing reality as it is. I don't attach my expectations or desires to what is happening. When nice things happen it doesn't mean that everything is better now and when bad things happen it doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
I have moved to the south and there is a saying I hear a lot that I really like.
It is what it is.
Doesn't matter what spin I put on it, doesn't matter what other people say, doesn't matter if I have my rose colored glasses on or not. It is what it is.
I hope this helps.
Your friend,
I've been thinking for a couple of days on how to post to this. Finally with a recent post you gave me a foundation to build on.
the response I received in return was really sweet but I'm unsure of whether I should allow that to make me feel good or just ignore it.
It simply means that in that moment he said something nice, no more, no less.
For me detachment is seeing reality as it is. I don't attach my expectations or desires to what is happening. When nice things happen it doesn't mean that everything is better now and when bad things happen it doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
I have moved to the south and there is a saying I hear a lot that I really like.
It is what it is.
Doesn't matter what spin I put on it, doesn't matter what other people say, doesn't matter if I have my rose colored glasses on or not. It is what it is.
I hope this helps.
Your friend,
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Thanks Mike! I'm trying to just take things at face value from him from here on out. He's so full or crap that's its hard to figure out what's genuine and what's just more crap.
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Originally Posted by Stung
I want balance, and AH is a boatload of chaos. Even pre-addiction hubby wasn't balanced it then it was like a cute opposites attract kind of thing. Now it's like WTF is wrong with you, your **** is so all over the place, figure it out!!
Without him here my home is better balanced than when we have two parents here. Sad but true.
Without him here my home is better balanced than when we have two parents here. Sad but true.
Like a well-ordered spreadsheet. All columns, decimals, and equations all well-ordered, in line, and in place. Zero = Zero.
True but sad.
Think and remember, Stung, why did you not choose that back at the start.
Think and remember.
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Originally Posted by Stung
Thanks Mike! I'm trying to just take things at face value from him from here on out. He's so full or crap that's its hard to figure out what's genuine and what's just more crap.
Your friend,
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I've been reading your answers and it's very informative.
Detachment for me is detaching yourself from what the your significant other is doing (or didn't do) and about learning how to react to it "in a good way". It's a way to protect yourself.
My issue is that I'm detaching from good AND bad stuff. Trying to anyway, because I'm far from applying it 24/7.
Sometimes it feels like I'm detaching myself completely from everything -including my love for him.
Detachment for me is detaching yourself from what the your significant other is doing (or didn't do) and about learning how to react to it "in a good way". It's a way to protect yourself.
My issue is that I'm detaching from good AND bad stuff. Trying to anyway, because I'm far from applying it 24/7.
Sometimes it feels like I'm detaching myself completely from everything -including my love for him.
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As others have shared I define detachment as "emotional distance" There are certain situations that I may become emotionally responsive too (both good/bad) that I do not need to let influence my actions.
Part of detachment is defining what is and is NOT in my area of responsibility. But the main part is separating an emotional response to a situation. It is more of an idea of Acting rather than reacting. I have to sometimes separate my emotional response from whatever happened so that I can discern the best course of action form me to take..which may be no action at all.
Example: I May visit a friend who has a newborn baby, I may be overwhelmed with the joy and love that is present and I may have a desire to have a baby and this may become temporarily enhanced by the exposure/experience. I need to detach the emotional response from the reality of whether or not this is the time for me to attempt to become pregnant.
With regard to the A's in my life the Alanon Pamphlet gives me specifics with regard to a specific area of my life. But I use detachment in "all my affairs". It is one of the healthiest tools of the program, but takes practice to have effective results.
Remember detachment is NEITHER Kind nor Unkind.
Part of detachment is defining what is and is NOT in my area of responsibility. But the main part is separating an emotional response to a situation. It is more of an idea of Acting rather than reacting. I have to sometimes separate my emotional response from whatever happened so that I can discern the best course of action form me to take..which may be no action at all.
Example: I May visit a friend who has a newborn baby, I may be overwhelmed with the joy and love that is present and I may have a desire to have a baby and this may become temporarily enhanced by the exposure/experience. I need to detach the emotional response from the reality of whether or not this is the time for me to attempt to become pregnant.
With regard to the A's in my life the Alanon Pamphlet gives me specifics with regard to a specific area of my life. But I use detachment in "all my affairs". It is one of the healthiest tools of the program, but takes practice to have effective results.
Remember detachment is NEITHER Kind nor Unkind.
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for me, detachment is about emotional stability, it is about not being buffetted this way and that by the words deeds and feelings of others.
someone says or does or has something negative happen to them, and I feel sad, confused, angry, protective, or however I feel and that's fine, I feel that emotion, I acknowledge that feeling without judgement, and my life continues. Similarly, someone says, does or has something positive happen to them, and I feel joy, pride, love, kinship, or however I feel, and that's fine, I acknowledge that feeling and my life continues.
it's not about deadening feelings or choosing only the positive ones, but it is about stopping my experience of life, and my inner world, being entirely dependent on things outside of myself.
I can enjoy the feeling of a random stranger smiling or be irritated by their rudeness. I can enjoy the compliment given to me by a loved one or be irritated by their grumpiness, but these things do not define my emotional well being.
someone says or does or has something negative happen to them, and I feel sad, confused, angry, protective, or however I feel and that's fine, I feel that emotion, I acknowledge that feeling without judgement, and my life continues. Similarly, someone says, does or has something positive happen to them, and I feel joy, pride, love, kinship, or however I feel, and that's fine, I acknowledge that feeling and my life continues.
it's not about deadening feelings or choosing only the positive ones, but it is about stopping my experience of life, and my inner world, being entirely dependent on things outside of myself.
I can enjoy the feeling of a random stranger smiling or be irritated by their rudeness. I can enjoy the compliment given to me by a loved one or be irritated by their grumpiness, but these things do not define my emotional well being.
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