Stung

Katchie, if you'd like to claim him, be my guest!

Hammer

So THAT's what should be in the Lost and Found . . . .

Stung

Yes. Looks like this:

LOST:

Husband and father of 2. 6' ginger man with freckles.

Was last seen on vacation in December 2012 with family.

Loves sports, meat and beer, especially loves combining those 3 things. Also enjoys making his daughters laugh, a good debate and sharing a quiet dinner with his wife.

Last winter I made him read Hunger games and he pretended like he hated it but he loved it. We went on vacation to Vancouver and had an amazing time exploring the city and playing in the snow at Whistler. On NYE we were pregnant with DD2 and booked a babysitter and went to dinner and danced and had so much fun. On New Year's Day he was going to do the Polar Bear swim but decided at the last minute not to. He said that he would definitely do it January 1, 2014.

If anyone knows the whereabouts of this man, please contact me immediately.

shil2587

I can relate. Only it's also the death of a dream isn't it? The dream of walking off into the sunlight with them and not having to worry about dating again or the uncertainty of being alone. It's the death of being able to enjoy a relationship with the same innocence. I know that having clear boundaries and a very powerful radar for crazy is a healthy thing, but isn't it sad that we have to have that now? I can't help but feel sad that I know the dark side of the world much more intimately than I did before.

That said, I really admire the strength you are showing in sticking to your boundary and following through with moving out when it became clear he would not.

cgfox

I really feel for you Stung,
I've been feeling the same way looking back at what we had...

wynter

My heart goes out to you. I too know what it's like to be with dr jekkyl/mr. hyde. First you think it's you, try to change yourself, little by little, to please him, in the hopes of doing so the guy you loved will return. When he doesn't, you chip away even more of yourself to find some semblance of 'normalcy'.

BTDT. Here to tell you that unless he works a really strong program, AND goes to intense counseling for what is at the root of his addiction, he will never be the man you want/love. My RA goes to meetings, seems good on the surface...but the irritation, anger, sullenness, blame shifting, and incredible meanness is now out there front and center. Most days I can barely remember that good hearted, sweet, kind person I fell in love with. It's truly unbelievable.

I've had no previous experience with dry drunk syndrome. It's crazy making for us, and there are no answers except to try to stay focused on YOU, and stop looking for answers to help them.

I hope you find peace. The holidays are hard without this added stress. You're in my prayers.

SoaringSpirits

I also grieve for my lost, red-headed husband. He used to be so much fun.

But I can tell you that time and SPACE from the alcoholic can really clear your head. With distance, I am able to see just how f-d up the whole situation was, how badly he treated me, how miserable I was, how confused my kids were.

Nothing you can do for him. Everything you can do for yourself and your kids.

Al Anon and SR were my lifelines, but the real progress happened in counseling, working with a therapist who specialized in addiction. If you can do this for yourself, even just a handful of sessions, I highly recommend it.

Also, books. The most helpful were: "Under the Influence," "Codependent No More" and "The journey from abandonment to healing." The third book I wished I'd had the day I gave my AH the boot. It was like a roadmap for all the stages of grieving a mate who had abandoned me for vodka.

Hang in there.

Stung

I would really, really love a guide to giving an alcoholic the boot. I know I need counseling (I'm apprehensive about going to al anon because I'm worried that it'll be some kind of grieving spouses meat market scenario, is that weird?) but with the time of year and two little ones, finding the time to contact someone has been challenging.

He keeps texting me "I love you, I'm so sorry. Blah blah blah" over and over and over again. But he just doesn't get it!!! His sorrys mean absolutely nothing. That phrase lost its value months and months ago coming from him. "I love you, I'm sorry" equates to "please just let me come back home, I know I suck but so do you. In fact, you're still to blame for some of this stuff." And then I talk to him on the phone and he should be like a sobbing pile of man and he's not! He's still his indignant, man-child self.

I asked him what he was hoping the outcome would be in 30 days after he'd been successful in maintaining sobriety, smart ******* told me one day at a time. Riiiiiight, one day at a time when it suits YOUR needs.

I think I'm supposed to be some level of supportive here and at the same time be equally guarded to protect myself and our kids from his addict, selfish, abusive, self serving scheming. It's like walking a tightrope with a baby in one arm and a toddler in the other with an alcoholic throwing water balloons at me the whole time.

dandylion

Stung.......WHO says you are SUPPOSED to be "some level of supportive"??????

dandylion

Stung

My mom. Who is pretty much my entire support system but she's a normie. I want to be a normie again too.

How am I supposed to respond to his texts? I've been trying to ignore them for the most part until I FINALLY wrestled both kids into bed on my own. Then it's guns blazing and I'm curt and short with him.

Last night this is how our exchange went:

Me: What are you hoping is going to happen at the end of 30 days?
Him: one day at a time. What are you hoping happens at the end of 30 days?
Me: That you'll be sober enough to start seeing our kids again. That's all. You have an uphill battle if you want to stay married to me. I don't want to be married to the person you are right now. You're a monster.
Him: I understand. I don't care how long it takes, but I will prove to you that I am a good man. I will work everyday the rest of my life making you want to be married to me.
Me: You're not a good man now. You need to become one. You probably never were but did a good enough job covering up whatever is it that is ailing you. You need to fix what is wrong with you and then I need to decide if I can stay with someone who tells my daughter that I'm a liar and a *****. Someone who grabs my arm and tries to hurt me. Someone who tells me they hate me when I'm pregnant with their baby.

Then all day today it's "I love you. I'm sorry." I'm just not responding for the time being. What am I supposed to say?

MsJojo

This thread is making me feel so sad for all of us. My A is my husband and my children's daddy. I feel like I need to grieve for him even though he is alive. x

Mags1

Hi Stung, you certainly need space from your husband at this time.

Can you ask him, if you haven't already, to give you space and time, for you and also for him. Time to go away and think about himself, what he has become, what his actions caused. To go and look at himself.

I was the drinker in our relationship, I'm ashamed to say, and nothing could stop me drinking until he walked out and wouldn't come back. He told me to go away and think about my actions etc for a week.

That's what I did, with no contact, respecting his wishes, and started to turn my life around.

I really hope your husband means what he is saying and not just bravado to get you back. He needs to prove himself, which will take a long time, it's not a quick fix for him.

My mum gave my dad lots of second chances, to no avail, just caused grief for all our family, we were small children at the time, you would have thought I would abhor alcohol after the pain and suffering it caused us all. But no, I went the same way.

If not, time is a great healer.

Hammer

Meat Market. Sort of funny, but that is more the AA side. They even have a name for it over on that side of the wall -- 13th Step. AA women now scare me.

Have been to bunches of Alanon at bunches of places. Probably meet some near thousand people. Of course probably 80 to 90% were women. Not that I am keeping track, but I think I have only gotten two "boob hugs," and only real "hit on me." Will find the thread chatting about it, if you want, find of funny. Bottom line, I just about peed my pants and ran off.

Overall counting that 3 of the 1000 is only 0.3%. I get more hits going grocery shopping, or taking the kids to the library.

I guess I now (finally) have the self esteem to say that is not because I am hard on the eyes or anything, but more that is just not the way Alanon tends to roll. The guys (like me) tend to be such beat down (like me) poosies whining about a Drunk Woman who treats them like crap, rather than simply looking across the room and seeing a sensible "good-mom-desirable" woman like you.

But on a MAJOR self-esteem boost for me, Mrs. Hammer laid in to me last weekend, when I was heading out the door to an Alanon event -- That I MUST be having an Affair (my God, THAT is so OUTSIDE my real world behavior, I have to laugh), but to me it means I must be looking shaper, and saner than I have in a long time.

Either that or it means by projection, that SHE is running around. Guess I will go with the self-esteem booster for now.

Well, comparing notes, here . . . I rarely get a Love You, and NEVER get an I'm sorry. Maybe I should adopt some of your methods.

Yeah, welcome to my last year. After she came back from Rehab. For better or worse we have three kids. At least a little older, but I do not know if that is better or not. Things do seem to be calming down and/or getting saner. At least she is not crazy with the kids. That was WAY over my line. Dunno. "More will be revealed."

Stung

Mags, what did your hubby tell you? AH is already out of the house and Christmas is in a few days and I do feel bad that he is missing Christmas with our kids (even though its HIS OWN fault!!!) so I don't want to just tell him to kick rocks. I guess I'm at a loss of what direction I'm supposed to be going in here because I don't know what direction he's actually going in yet. (And I just re-read that and realized how codependent I sound. Fudge!) Half of my brain says I've hit my saturation point, he's had a million and one chances, a bevy of good reasons to stop and here we are, it's time to cut MY losses and move onward and upward to better things...even if its really, really difficult at first. The other half says, what if he actually does succeed and then I will have a regular little life like our neighbor (AH's sponsor who has been sober for 14 years, married for 30+) and like PohsFriend. Maybe I should give him one more chance and play nice for now.

Hammer, I don't know what a boob hug is but that made me LOL!! Also, "I love you" and "I'm sorry" are meaningless if they're uttered every single time your spouse screws up, which happens to be damn near daily around here. I withhold I love yous from AH because those words mean something to me and I don't say them unless I mean them. And I use them constantly with my kids. As in the wrong as Mrs. Hammer may or may not be, I agree with not saying them if you don't mean them, but withholding it to be spiteful is a jerk thing to do too.

Stung

And I hope that doesn't sound mean. If I really think about it, I'm fairly certain that AH actually does hate me but is afraid to move on. He does say I love you like its "hey, what's up" but he reserves "I hate you" for when he's really angry at me. Which I actually was on the receiving end of several I hate yous on Sunday.

Stung

I know what I need to do. I need to stop this insanity now.

As a parent, I owe it to my children to show them what a healthy relationship looks like and I owe it to them to be brave enough to walk away when I'm not being treated with respect, love and dignity. I would tell my daughters the exact same thing if, God forbid, they're in this situation as adults. Bare bone minimum, they deserve dignity, respect and love from their partner. I have none of those things from mine.

As for faith and a higher power, if things are meant to work out, they will; in spite of AH's poor choices and in spite of my own actions, because thats thats the beauty of a higher power. It/he/she can intervene and change your plans on a dime. If we eventually come to a point where we are both IN LOVE with each other again, thats fabulous but if we don't, then that's obviously not what's in store for us.

I have hope that things will work out, but hope doesn't mean that you should stand in the rain without an umbrella and just freeze waiting in hope that the rain stops. You should seek shelter in the meantime and if it starts to flood, then its time to look for a new place to be. It's been raining for more than a year here. There were times when it was drizzling (vacation last December) but the rain has been coming down hard for months and its now flooded.

It is time for me to change. And I have to be the brave one obviously, my husband is doing the rain dance and doesn't know how to stop himself.

NWGRITS

No disrespect for your mom, as I'm sure she's a lovely person, but my guess is she has no experience with addiction. Conventional wisdom out in the normal world does not apply at ALL with addicts. A common guilt trip we hear from the Normie world is "You wouldn't leave him/her if they had cancer, would you?" Yeah, that makes you sound like a world-class bitch. But when coupled with OUR response: "I would if s/he kept going back to the store to buy more cancer" puts it back into perspective. They aren't even in the same universe in terms of dealing with it within relationships. Not even close. I think your outlook on it right now is good. It doesn't have to be over forever. Who knows, he may well find sobriety, a program, and a good therapist. And if he does and is WORKING said program and therapy, then he should recognize what he's done to you and genuinely make amends. There's no timeline for that, though a minimum of one year is usually the suggested marker for trying to "get back to normal."

Hammer

A boob hug?

Mkay. Great topic on Sunday morning before church.

Hugging. A lot of the women like to be "huggers." Since usually during a meeting my voice has cracked at least once towards a cry, the would-be rescuers want to hug me. At least if they do not hand me the tissues, I can live with that. Part of the deal.

The Engineering Analysis. "Safe" hugging is approached at a slight angle. About a 30 to 45 degree angle. Since at 6 feet, I am taller than most of the women, and relatively trim (no A belly, as it were), if I were to hug straight on, they would wind up pushing "my parts" (is that delicate enough?) into their belly area. The slight angle targets an impact area of my front left or right pants pocket.

The Boob Hug. However, the deflection angle does line up their left or right boob for a targeted impact on me, if they are so trying. Since at first it is hard to tell if it is just clumsy on the first boob impact, I cannot quickly jump back. So to accomplish a boob hug, they keep their arm locked tight around you, and do a body roll to also bounce the other boob into you, as well. Then they look up, and lock your gaze to check your eyes. Pretty much a, yeah they are there, they are real, and maybe see you later?

As I say probably a better check would be the front of my pants, because I am likely peeing my pants by that point. First time I was just stunned, second time I just kindly smiled and stepped back. Thinking back both of them were AA types before they came over to Alanon.

A's, and AA in general, has a much harder history with this type stuff. You ever track any the real life story stuff of Bill W? Not so much the AA mythos, but the real story? He was a sleazy Dry Drunk douchebag who would target and tap new and struggling women in AA. Some of the AA guys (and predatory women) follow that tradition.

Hammer

just my humble opinion.

You need to sit down and chill the _____ out.

Like I say, just my humble.

Look at Steps 1 and 2.

1. It is Unmanageable by You. Get that, accept that. It is the basis of Step 1.

If still think YOU Can manage it, you are due some more suffering.

2. You can be returned to Sanity.

Go look up the Steps and read them. They are not idle words.

================

As the wiser Alanannies tell me -- Don't just do something. Sit still.



.

Stung

Me thinks my declaration of being done with my alcoholic husband has been misunderstood.

1. I cannot fix my husband. Believe me, I've tried. I'm a fixer. I fix things. When something is off, there IS a solution. I'm an accountant, everything has a box it goes in and has a reasonable explanation for why it goes there. This includes my husband. He's an alcoholic, he needs help, he has a problem that's driving him to drink and the sum of those issues is causing myself and my daughters a LOT of grief. I cannot fix him, only he can accomplish that, and I hope he does. I accept this.

2. I can restore sanity to myself and my home. I'm stopping the insanity. My husband needs to go be crazy on his own. He's already there but as of current he thinks his time in crazy town, population 1, is limited to 30 days. It will be longer and indefinite. Insanity has been thus removed, at least partially and for the foreseeable future.

To quote Jack Johnson
"Now I was sitting waiting wishing
That you believed in superstitions
Then maybe you'd see the signs
But Lord knows that this world is cruel
And I ain't the Lord, no I'm just a fool
Learning loving somebody don't make them love you"

I will not continue to sit, wait and wish. If The Lord wills my husband and I to be together then we will be together. In the meantime, I need to enjoy everyday without carrying his burden on my shoulders. My daughters deserve a happy parent. Voting my husband off the island is what will make my home a safe, happy place. That in turn, makes me happy.