First time posting-Need Advice
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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First time posting-Need Advice
This is my first time posting or even visiting a message board like this for that matter, so bear with me. I am happily married with two kids and a respectable career. The reason I looked this place up is because my mother is an alcoholic, not the type that drinks from sunrise to sundown, but drinks and is still able to maintain a lifestyle that includes a good job, nice house, car, and a questionable marriage. The issue she has is that the moment she gets home from work she opens a bottle of wine, gets on Facebook and drinks until bedtime, wake up, go to work, rinse and repeat, you get the idea. She has had this problem for years, well before her marriage. Every night I would talk to her on the phone after she's been home a couple of hours, it was obvious, slurred voice, and sometimes she couldn't remember the conversation we had from the night before. I have asked her to work on her drinking several times but have been unsuccessful. There were some other factors that lead to my next decision but if I get into that my carpal tunnel will flare up. Basically I finally got to a point that I had to say, " I want you to get help, I will be right there beside you every step of the way, and until you do, I can't keep a good relationship with you." I followed that up by telling her that I loved her very much and that was the end of the conversation. That was 2 months ago and she has yet to do anything and still feels like she doesn't have a problem. Here's the tricky part, my grandparents have scolded me for what I did and agree with my mom that she doesn't have a problem, they refuse to be a part of my life and my kids life until I can accept my moms lifestyle. The other issue is my moms husband is a heavy drinker so there will be no help there either. What I don't understand is my grandfather is 40 plus years sober and my uncle (their son, my moms brother) lost his battle with drug addiction when I was a kid, so I would think they would be the first to understand where I'm coming from. These are the people that raised me and they all mean the world to me, and my kids are starting to wonder why we haven't seen them in so long. I can't just wash my hands of the situation and I have gotten SO close to just giving in just to maintain the peace. The only one behind me is my wife. My grandparents and a couple of other family members feel like I am way out of line, when I know in my heart that I am well within reason. Anyways sorry for the long post, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Hi Maca & Welcome to SR. I think you'll find this to be a wonderful resource of experience & information to help navigate the waters of dealing with addiciton in your family.
My best advice is to just dive right in - start reading the sticky threads at the top of the page, in both this forum & the one for Adult Children of Alcoholics. Read threads, blogs, whatever strikes you. If you are interested, a lot of memebers here are also members of AL-Anon & speak highly of getting involved with an IRL (in real life
) organization like that to help. I'm sure someone will come along soon tht can add more about that (I'm not currently attending alanon, so I can't really give too many details.)
My best advice is to just dive right in - start reading the sticky threads at the top of the page, in both this forum & the one for Adult Children of Alcoholics. Read threads, blogs, whatever strikes you. If you are interested, a lot of memebers here are also members of AL-Anon & speak highly of getting involved with an IRL (in real life
) organization like that to help. I'm sure someone will come along soon tht can add more about that (I'm not currently attending alanon, so I can't really give too many details.)
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Here is how I keep it all straight.
THE KIDS (my kids) are the #1 Priority. I try to give them Good Knowledge, so they can use Good Judgment. I listen to WHAT THEY WANT. And when it is reasonable and beneficial to them, I try to make sure they get that. School, Housing, Alateen, Activities, on and on.
As far as the Various A's (which includes Mrs. Hammer), Enablers, Codies, etc. F-Them-All.
Kids are #1.
Then I learned in Alanon -- I have to make ME #2, since I need ensure the "mission success" (sorry military jargon) of the #1 Priority.
Again -- As far as the Various A's (which includes Mrs. Hammer), Enablers, Codies, etc. F-Them-All.
THE KIDS (my kids) are the #1 Priority. I try to give them Good Knowledge, so they can use Good Judgment. I listen to WHAT THEY WANT. And when it is reasonable and beneficial to them, I try to make sure they get that. School, Housing, Alateen, Activities, on and on.
As far as the Various A's (which includes Mrs. Hammer), Enablers, Codies, etc. F-Them-All.
Kids are #1.
Then I learned in Alanon -- I have to make ME #2, since I need ensure the "mission success" (sorry military jargon) of the #1 Priority.
Again -- As far as the Various A's (which includes Mrs. Hammer), Enablers, Codies, etc. F-Them-All.
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
Hi and welcome to the forum! Keep posting, this is a great place with lots of understanding. It's helpful.
It bothers me that the grandparents are willing to punish your innocent children over something like this. Maybe your kids are better off...
Maybe there is a desperation to hang on to your mom/this child since her brother/their son was lost to this addiction. If my math is right your mom grew up in a house where, at least for part of her upbringing, her father was drinking. He may have guilt over his children and their addictions, one of which ended in death. He might not be strong enough to face up to the fact that you won't cling to your mother out of guilt as he clings to her, his daughter, that way. Maybe he's also projecting, I wonder if there were times when his own children had nothing to do with him over his drinking? Or that he's angry over your choice, putting himself in your mom's shoes, unable to get past his guilt long enough to see her in a clear way.
Don't know if that last sentence was put well.
Either way, there's nothing you can do to make them accept your choice, and you don't have to justify yourself to them.
Like I said, though it's sad that they are not a part of your children's lives over this, the fact that they don't see anything wrong with punishing innocent children who love their grandparents over something that has nothing to do with their grandchildren is sick if you ask me, and maybe it's better this way...
I'm sure others will have advice from a more been-there-done-that point of view.
Good luck to you.
Peace.
It bothers me that the grandparents are willing to punish your innocent children over something like this. Maybe your kids are better off...
Maybe there is a desperation to hang on to your mom/this child since her brother/their son was lost to this addiction. If my math is right your mom grew up in a house where, at least for part of her upbringing, her father was drinking. He may have guilt over his children and their addictions, one of which ended in death. He might not be strong enough to face up to the fact that you won't cling to your mother out of guilt as he clings to her, his daughter, that way. Maybe he's also projecting, I wonder if there were times when his own children had nothing to do with him over his drinking? Or that he's angry over your choice, putting himself in your mom's shoes, unable to get past his guilt long enough to see her in a clear way.
Don't know if that last sentence was put well.
Either way, there's nothing you can do to make them accept your choice, and you don't have to justify yourself to them.
Like I said, though it's sad that they are not a part of your children's lives over this, the fact that they don't see anything wrong with punishing innocent children who love their grandparents over something that has nothing to do with their grandchildren is sick if you ask me, and maybe it's better this way...
I'm sure others will have advice from a more been-there-done-that point of view.
Good luck to you.
Peace.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 8
Thanks for all the advice! It's just a tough time to deal with it with Xmas approaching also my mothers bday is Friday and I haven't figured out what to do about that yet. As far as my grandparents, their reasoning is that they would feel guilty seeing the kids when my mom can't, which in my opinion is extremely selfish. I've been taking to my Pastor over the last few months about the situation, they found out about that and my grandfather called my pastor and him gave him the "what for" and accused him of "brain washing" my wife and I. It's a completely jacked up situation. These are not the people I used to know.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by maca1028 
Thanks for all the advice! It's just a tough time to deal with it with Xmas approaching also my mothers bday is Friday and I haven't figured out what to do about that yet. As far as my grandparents, their reasoning is that they would feel guilty seeing the kids when my mom can't, which in my opinion is extremely selfish. I've been taking to my Pastor over the last few months about the situation, they found out about that and my grandfather called my pastor and him gave him the "what for" and accused him of "brain washing" my wife and I. It's a completely jacked up situation. These are not the people I used to know.
Just make sure everything you do is for the Good and "Let Go and Let God."
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
It's never easy dealing with FOO (Family Of Origin) is it?
I agree with Hammer, do what is right for your family and then let go and let God. Enjoy the holidays with your family and your kids. That's what counts in my book as well.
Your friend,
I agree with Hammer, do what is right for your family and then let go and let God. Enjoy the holidays with your family and your kids. That's what counts in my book as well.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Alcoholism changes the landscape of so many of our lives. And that is painful, perplexing, and full of loss.
I grew up in an alcoholic family and most of the extended family had alcoholism and other addictions in their midst. As a child, I called it like I saw it, and that had bad repercussions for me. The family closed ranks and chose to perceive me as the one with the problem.
My psychiatrist explained to me many years later that a dysfunctional family has rubber walls around it. When you try to tell or live the truth and/or leave those walls, it bounces you around like a pinball within those walls to get you to conform to the family's version of truth.
When I was 7 and my abusive alcoholic father said "I don't want to hear another peep out of you", I would sit on the stairs just out of his reach and go "peep, peep, peep." And I would be punished. When I did the equivalent as an adult - chose not to submit to the bizarre demands of their alcoholic dysfunctional family system, I was ostracized and ultimately "disowned".
That hurt and still hurts, but trying to acquiesce to their craziness would have caused greater damage and would have trapped my children within those rubber walls of dysfunction where people are negotiating chips to be used to accomplish the manipulation of the moment. You see, in my original family, for someone to be "good", someone else had to be "bad". The ever shifting power alliances were all important and required periodic sacrifices of various people to that end. And the drama and emotional chaos around those battles with its intensity and violence was what passed for "emotional closeness".
So I gave it up. From what you say, your extended family doesn't sound psychotic as mine was and is. But with all that alcoholism and recovery and relapse, accommodations to the truth have probably had to be made in order for people to get along and go along. I'd say do what you need to do for yourself and your children to take care of you all in the long run. But don't expect their approval - you're dissing the system they live by.
Maybe you can talk individually with the relatives you are closest to and who are the most reasonable and suggest that your relationship with your mother is between the two of you, and does not have to affect your relationship with them.
In any case, whatever you decide to do, and whatever the outcome is, you are sane, you are honest, and you are making a choice that you have every right to make.
ShootingStar1
I grew up in an alcoholic family and most of the extended family had alcoholism and other addictions in their midst. As a child, I called it like I saw it, and that had bad repercussions for me. The family closed ranks and chose to perceive me as the one with the problem.
My psychiatrist explained to me many years later that a dysfunctional family has rubber walls around it. When you try to tell or live the truth and/or leave those walls, it bounces you around like a pinball within those walls to get you to conform to the family's version of truth.
When I was 7 and my abusive alcoholic father said "I don't want to hear another peep out of you", I would sit on the stairs just out of his reach and go "peep, peep, peep." And I would be punished. When I did the equivalent as an adult - chose not to submit to the bizarre demands of their alcoholic dysfunctional family system, I was ostracized and ultimately "disowned".
That hurt and still hurts, but trying to acquiesce to their craziness would have caused greater damage and would have trapped my children within those rubber walls of dysfunction where people are negotiating chips to be used to accomplish the manipulation of the moment. You see, in my original family, for someone to be "good", someone else had to be "bad". The ever shifting power alliances were all important and required periodic sacrifices of various people to that end. And the drama and emotional chaos around those battles with its intensity and violence was what passed for "emotional closeness".
So I gave it up. From what you say, your extended family doesn't sound psychotic as mine was and is. But with all that alcoholism and recovery and relapse, accommodations to the truth have probably had to be made in order for people to get along and go along. I'd say do what you need to do for yourself and your children to take care of you all in the long run. But don't expect their approval - you're dissing the system they live by.
Maybe you can talk individually with the relatives you are closest to and who are the most reasonable and suggest that your relationship with your mother is between the two of you, and does not have to affect your relationship with them.
In any case, whatever you decide to do, and whatever the outcome is, you are sane, you are honest, and you are making a choice that you have every right to make.
ShootingStar1
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,423
Yes, good advice here.
I think you have to do what is in your heart.
I wonder if the grandparents will cave during the holidays if you don't back down?
You can tell them they are welcome to see the children without you for a visit perhaps?
I think you have to do what is in your heart.
I wonder if the grandparents will cave during the holidays if you don't back down?
You can tell them they are welcome to see the children without you for a visit perhaps?
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
You can tell them they are welcome to see the children without you for a visit perhaps?
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by maca1028
. . . . it has always been a package deal with them, if you have a problem with one you have a problem with all. . . . .
mho, they are telling you, by example, that you will need to have REAL Strong Boundaries with them.
Do you know how to do that?
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
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mkay.
First is Acceptance. (usually comes with Awareness and Acknowledging your are dealing with Alcoholics) You already have that.
Next is Detachment. Sort of a fancy way of saying Get and Keep a Safe Distance. You have already figured that part out, too.
Next is Boundaries. Sort of like a fence. You set a "Boundary" to keep their crap out your yard. Your boundary is No Drunk Mom/Grandma around the Kids. A Very Good Boundary.
They do not like being told they do not have a "right" to dump their crap in your yard.
Do you follow that in this case you are the "grown-up" and all your would be Seniors are acting like bratty children -- saying "You Can't Tell Me!"
Keep your fences and boundaries up. It keeps their crap out of your yard.
First is Acceptance. (usually comes with Awareness and Acknowledging your are dealing with Alcoholics) You already have that.
Next is Detachment. Sort of a fancy way of saying Get and Keep a Safe Distance. You have already figured that part out, too.
Next is Boundaries. Sort of like a fence. You set a "Boundary" to keep their crap out your yard. Your boundary is No Drunk Mom/Grandma around the Kids. A Very Good Boundary.
They do not like being told they do not have a "right" to dump their crap in your yard.
Do you follow that in this case you are the "grown-up" and all your would be Seniors are acting like bratty children -- saying "You Can't Tell Me!"
Keep your fences and boundaries up. It keeps their crap out of your yard.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,805
I know what you are going through. My mom is an alcoholic too and I am the only one is my family enforcing any kind of boundaries. Everyone else wants to look the other way and pretend it isn't happening. I morally can't do that. I feel like I am helping her kill herself by pretending everything is normal, but of course, I am the "bad" one. I don't have any good advice. Just letting you know you are not alone. I have made it very clear to my parents that there will be no more drunkenness or abuse around me and my family (husband and four kids). I guess that is all that we can do. 
Still hurts though . . .
Still hurts though . . .
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
Originally Posted by maca1028
Thanks for all the advice! It's just a tough time to deal with it with Xmas approaching also my mothers bday is Friday and I haven't figured out what to do about that yet.
Originally Posted by maca1028
As far as my grandparents, their reasoning is that they would feel guilty seeing the kids when my mom can't, which in my opinion is extremely selfish.
I feel so badly for your kids that they are being used as weapons. It's so mean that they are using the fact that your kids love their grandparents to try to manipulate you into seeing your mother. Kids love is innocent and sweet...and they don't think twice about abusing that beautiful thing. I know that it would be extremely hard to find a way to tell your inquiring children a reason why the grandparents aren't around anymore, but man. That's just so cold of them.
Originally Posted by maca1028
've been taking to my Pastor over the last few months about the situation, they found out about that and my grandfather called my pastor and him gave him the "what for" and accused him of "brain washing" my wife and I. It's a completely jacked up situation. These are not the people I used to know.
I'm so sorry.
My very best to you, your wife, and your children in this confusing and painful time, around the holidays no less...
And I hope your mother has an epiphany, and backs it up with strength and resolve to get healthy.
As for the grandparents...I hope they are able to have an honest moment with themselves, and find the courage to admit that it's wrong to use these poor kids like a bargaining tool, and promptly stop.
Peace.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
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I'm really glad I found this place, you all have giving me some excellent advice. I have been handling the stress pretty well, it started getting pretty tough around thanksgiving and now with Xmas approaching and understandably so. I really appreciate it folks! I will keep y'all updated.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Maca- welcome to SR, but sorry you had need to find us. I'd like to invite you to join us in the Adult Children of Addicted/Alcoholic Parents forum, just two down the list in the Friends & Family section of the boards. You can read some of our stories and get a target audience of ACoA (adult children of alcoholics). Your FOO sounds just like mine, and I've been through the wringer with them over the past year-and-a-half since I went No Contact with my alcoholic mother (AM). Addiction is a family disease. No one goes unaffected, but we do have a choice to turn our lives away from the trash and toward the treasure. It takesva lot of work to change our thinking and our reactions toward others, but it can be done. Just know that you are not crazy, you're not doing anything wrong, and that your gut feeling about your grandparents is spot on. Stay strong. Better days are coming.
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