Superdad454

Step daughter (21)doing well after a 90 day inpatient program, now in Sober Living.

Now continuing the same sort of life choices that we previously attributed to her using. Refusing to get a job, getting stupid "graffiti" (meaningless words and initials) tattoos. Getting in fights with room mates (they have nothing to do if they don't work) and just being involved with allot of young adult women drama.

She has "cut" in the past, which I personally think is totally stupid and won't get into the deep issues that SOME people have that cause this, in HER case I feel it is some kind of attention seeking crap. She got caught doing that again recently in the Sober Living house and now they are discussing kicking her out. This is the second time she has done this, the first time they took her to the ER for a full psych eval and we had hoped it would scare her from doing it again. She is getting weekly counseling and admits she is just choosing to not use the new tools she is being taught to deal with stress and emotions, so it's not that she doesn't have resources. We are paying a ridiculous amount for her to be in this program, I know it is serious and well rated, but I joke that she is staying at a clean and sober country club.

Our issue is how do we support her and do what WE can to help her stay clean, without enabling her to continue making these stupid choices. I know her choice to stay clean or use/drink is HERS to make and we can't control or save her from that but I feel like she is basically blackmailing us into supporting her because she knows we won't let her truly feel the results of her poor choices because her mother is afraid she will use or worse if she is suddenly homeless.

If she gets kicked out, she is stuck in another state with no job or care or money, mom is afraid she would get hurt or abducted etc, or at the very least, fall in with other homeless kids in that area and use/drink again.
So the alternative is, we buy her a plane ticket home and she gets a free place to stay with us, or we put her up in her own place here. If we bring her back here and tell her she is on her own, she will just fall in with old friends and drink/use.

So while I am MUCH more willing to let her FEEL the results of her decisions (ie "She did something STUPID, let her sleep on a park bench or in a shelter for a few nights and suffer"), her mom will just reward the bad behavior. All she has to do is stay clean and sober and she can theoretically coast and just be a loser in other regards. Our original statement to her when we flew her there was "This is it, if you get kicked out of here, you are stuck, don't call for a plane ticket, use this opportunity" and she swore she was on board. Now, however, mom feels like if she doesn't bail her out of her mess, she is basically condemning her to being unable to NOT use/drink because she will be in such dire straits.

I am new to this end of things myself so I don't know what to do. I suffered and faced the results of my choices the HARD way for years and had to choose to fix it, so I can't relate to this willful stupidity and expectation that someone will just bail her out regardless of what she does.

Thoughts, suggestions, ideas??

MissFixit

hi superdad, welcome.

i am not the parent or step-parent of an A, but i can tell by your post that you are very frustrated by your alcoholic step-daughter. dealing with an A is a crazy land. have you and your wife been to alanon? if not, i highly recommend it for anyone having an ongoing relationship with an alcoholic.

yes, she has to be the one to want to recover and she has to take the needed steps each day to do that. enabling her will prolong that process. you and your wife don't make her drink or not drink. she is the only one with the power to decide that. there is nothing you can do to make her stop.

there are a couple of things that i want to point out to you from your post. you are very negative about your stepdaughter. i do not know you obviously, but you refer to her doing "stupid" things (tattoos, cutting, etc.), sarcastically refer to her "country club" sober living house, and seem put out about paying for her rehab (i get it). do you speak to her like that? do you talk with her mother about her like that? i ask this because i have a verbally abusive father who speaks to me in much the same way you are referring to your step-daughter and it has caused a lot of hurt and damage to the point i want basically nothing to do with him. i am just giving you a heads up about checking yourself if you talk to her or about her like that.

anyway, the cutting thing is NOT something to take lightly. there is usually mental illness combined with the addiction and folks use their drug of choice to self medicate. my ex used to cut and adamantly denied he did it. he made up stories about scuba diving and cutting himself on oyster shells. i actually believed him for a long time until i realized he had no tank, there were no oysters where he was and the cut marks started forming what looked like designs on his forearms.

sounds like step-daughter needs some intensive therapy IMHO in a safe environment.

how long have you been her step-father?

there are posters who have A stepkids and i am sure one of them might be able to offer you better suggestions.

best

Hammer

hmmm, Where to start?

First. 21 years old is not a "kid." Not trying to correct or scold you on that. Just trying to reinforce something you probably already know.

Second. The cutting stuff. Is sometimes a symptom of some Mental Illness(es) that tend to track very closely along Alcohol and Drug Abuse. Need details on that? Either way it does not increase / decrease or really have any matter to any obligations you and/or Mom may imaginary owe her. However, the approaches being used now as you described indicate a total incompetence and a clueless staff at the facility. Again, we can go much deeper on this if you need.

Third. Or maybe should have been first. Get YOU to Alanon. So you can get a real clear understanding of all this. Mrs. may or may not follow along, and get a clue, too.

Need help on finding your local Alanon, meetings, etc.?

Leana

Hi Superdad

We are in a similar situation in that my husband and I are dealing with our 24 yr old daughter's addiction. She is sober 103 days today. She is following her program, attends AA meetings, meets with her sponsor, and is employed full time.

Things are going pretty well right now but I have spent countless hours thinking about what we would do, if she relapses. In my opinion following through with the consequences, when the addiction involves a parent/child relationship is by far the hardest. As a mother I go back and forth about "rewarding bad behavior" which means she is safe or letting her deal with her choices which means leaving her in an unsafe position (i.e. sleeping on a park bench). I'm sorry, I don't have an answer. If, god forbid, my daughter relapses? I think it has to be the "park bench" scenario.

Why? Because I cannot be a part of her death. I will not contribute to it and the only way I know to stop it is to have the hard and fast rule, if you use, you're out of our house.

So what have I learned?
1. Don't say it if you can't follow through.
2. Don't fall for manipulation.
3. No matter how difficult, you and your wife HAVE to be on the same page. She knows she will benefit if she can "divide and conquer". One of you may have to compromise but you MUST come together, to save her life.

Lyssy

I could not have said it any better myself. While it was my work insurace that covered all of the detox and rehab and he is sober (to the best of my knowledge) hind site is SO 20/20 on this point. Never forget they (A's and most RA's) are takers, users, manipulators and self centered. I think this should be part b to step 1. Basically - the resucing stop now! It gives both parties involved a true fresh beginning to the start of a honest recovery.

Edit - I have no idea how this post got on this thread. It was to be a reply to GrowingODAT. I will blame the nasty flu I have and the meds I am taking.

OnawaMiniya

I see words like "loser", "stupid", "attention seeking crap", "stupid", "stupid"....

I see you are her step dad. I don't know of how long.

I see you are angry at mom for how she chooses to react and deal with her daughter.

I see your name is "superdad".

And in the last paragraph, you talk about suffering for years the hard way due to your own stupid choices, and about how you had to choose to fix it.

Do you think daughter is acting out, playing on mom and mom's guilt and desperate for your kindness and approval?

Kind of like how you are acting out, pretending this post is about you being more concerned for her well being than you are angry at how your wife is handling this, and bitter that you had to suffer the hard way?

And yes, she's an adult now and will have to learn a better way if she wants a better life, regardless of any family dynamic at play.

Superdad454

Ok I obviously came across poorly. I actually love this girl and her sister, and her mother and I tell her so and treat her very well. I was just being blunt here and maybe venting a little because I am frustrated. We have always been nothing but supportive. I figured giving a short and dirty overview of the situation might be more apt to get a response than an in depth explanation (ie wall of text).

As someone pointed out, she is very manipulative and KNOWS her mom will do anything for her and wants to save her at any cost, and she uses that against her. She is a kind, smart "Adult Child", that seems to have a chronic issue with poor choices.

The place we sent her really IS basically a "Country Club" so I wasn't being glib, we paid a mint to send her to one that came highly recommended that is in a very tropical climate (and we are from the North) in hopes that having sun and fun activities to do will help her since part of her using triggers up here was boredom and being trapped inside so much of the year.

I have never called her a "loser" or any semblance of the sentiment, if anything we overly placate and "support anything she does" but unfortunately, she doesn't DO anything. She dropped out of college but didn't tell us until we had paid an entire semester, when she only went the first month. She has gotten fired from every job she tries, usually for unacceptable reasons like "I was tired" and called in sick so she could go hang out with a BF all day. She faked "section 8" to get out of enlisting in the Nat Guard after leading the family to believe she was doing THAT for a year and got shipped back home after 2 days.

I know she is smart and is NOT a "Loser" but she does the actions of what most people would consider a "loser". I didn't mean to offend anyone with the terminology I used so I am sorry for that.

We have paid for a very expensive therapist where she is because we know she has some emotional issues, but we just found out that she hasn't even been going to that therapist for like 3 weeks, even though we still pay whether she goes or not. We can't MAKE her go to therapy, and we are providing all the "tools" she needs to have a successful recovery and get her life back on track, but she just seems to be choosing to NOT.

So basically, in my perception (accurate or not), she is just using this situation as the latest way to have a lively social life. I know she is clean and sober, I have no doubts there, they keep her in meetings and groups every day and give her UAs and Breathalizers anytime she comes back. It just seems like these groups are her "fun new social outlet" and she isn't doing anything else. She goes to 2-3 meetings a day and all weekend and hangs out with other young people in the same program and tells us about all these great new people (and cute boys) she is meeting. But when we ask how her job hunt is going, she flips out and gets defensive. Yet she still expects us to pay the $****/mo for her room and board and send the $*** to her bank acct for her "living expenses", and then has the lack of insight to realize we might be un enthused to see that she has spent $$ on a new tattoo that she posts on FB.

Now she has broken their contract regarding the "self abuse" and they want to send her home.

My wife talked to her yesterday and asked her "Well, what's your plan now, what are you going to do if they kick you out?"
Her response was "Well can't I just come home?". Even though she knew going down there that we would support her THERE as long as she was working the program and doing what she is supposed to, and even though she signed a contract with the facility that she wouldn't self harm, that she has now broken twice, she obviously had no forethought as to what she was going to do when the repercussions of her own choices come to pass and just expects us to pay for a ticket home and let her stay with us or pay for an apt for her up here, whichever is fine with her, but she doesn't have to actually WORRY about it.

So ya, I guess I DO resent the fact that she gets to have all the support and tools to work through her issues and yet she just actively CHOOSES to not use them and doesn't seem to give a thought for how she will deal with the results of her own choices and just assumes that we will be there to fix the messes she creates.

How do you hold someone to expectations without "triggering" her desire to use?

What would "the experts" advise in this situation?

Do we leave her there and let her figure out how to fend for herself?

Do we fly her home and let her live with us and just ask her nicely to please go get a job or enroll in and go to school?

If she passively refuses to do the above, but does stay clean, then?

OnawaMiniya

Can I ask, what were the issues you worked through yourself that you were referring to?

Hammer

Sure, I just took it as Locker Room Guy Talk. We are good.

dunno if you follow this -- BUT THAT is a MAJOR Clue this operation is NOT Competent to handle her. Do you really understand what I am telling you?

SI (self injury) is often a major indicator that There Is A REAL Problem under all this. You need to get some competent help and stop all the games and nonsense.

Do You Need Help With This?


You Do Not. You Cannot Cure nor Control This.

Get. You. And. Mom. To. Alanon.

You both have a LOT of learning to do.

MissFixit

she has several problems going on from your posts. i don't think there is a 1 2 3 step fix.

i assume you and your wife have talked with a psychiatrist about step-daughter's problems and he/she helped you develop a plan of action that you have already taken...? if not, i would make an appointment ASAP with your wife to talk with a very competent psychiatrist and ask for guidance and maybe a new evaluation of her. the alcohol is one thing, the cutting is another. did anyone ever mention a long term psychiatric facility to deal with psych issues?

not just emotional adolescent stuff but bigger psychiatric problems that people with those illnesses don't know how to cope with, so they turn to alcohol and drugs.

lillamy

Hey,

I really feel like I have no business here because dealing with the addiction issues of a child (talking relationship not age here) is a completely different ball of wax than dealing with the addiction of a spouse. HOWEVER -- I have a couple of friends who have dealt with kids with addictions. And what I hear from them is:

1) Make expectations clear. One of them, when her son went to rehab for the 5th time, sat down with him and his therapist and went over a WRITTEN CONTRACT of what he could expect from his parents and what they expected from him. He didn't have the option of saying "Can't I just come back home?" after blowing off rehab. He KNEW from the get-go that if he blew off rehab, his parents would supply one month's worth of his mental health medication and a prescription card with their health insurance information and that was IT. No coming back home. No we'll help you find a job or a place to stay. You decided rehab isn't for you? YOYO -- You're On Your Own.

2) As Leana said -- you need to understand what "helping" is when dealing with an addict. By continuing to protect her from the consequences of her choices, you're helping her closer to dying.

It sounds super harsh but I've seen two kids come back to sobriety and recovery when their parents stopped cushioning their world for them. Was it easy? No. It was hell. I talked my friend down when her daughter called her not knowing where she was telling her mother she had been raped by several men and was bleeding and couldn't walk. And hear the mother crying to me and say "I told her to call 911 and hung up."

Here's the thing though -- you're in a step parent situation. I am, too. And what I know about kids -- addicts or not -- is that they're not dumb. They KNOW that they will always be closer to their bio parent's heart than you are. Always. So what Leana said, again: You need to be on the same page because she WILL play you against each other. Addiction knows no boundaries or morals. If she has to break you up to win, she will. That's not an evil child, it's an evil addiction in a child. (Again -- at 21, she's not a child. But as my 80-year-old mom will tell you, once a mom, always a mom.)

Al-Anon. That's the best suggestion I've heard yet.

m1k3

Superdad, I agree with the AlAnon advice. Please get yourself there and your wife as well if you can. From my experience in dealing with my alcoholic wife I found myself emotionally unprepared for all that happened and ended up in a place every bit as bad as where my wife was.

As they tell you on the airplane, you have to put your own oxygen mask on first before you even think of helping someone else.

Your friend,

Recovering2

I have an adult alcoholic brother. My parents have paid for numerous rehabs over the years. He would always find a reason why it wasn't the place for him. He would make bad choices, and always end up on their door step. My Mom was always terrified of the "what ifs". If they didn't let him back in..."what if he's homeless" "what if he gets hurt" etc etc etc. They even had him sign a contract with stipulations and consequences. When he violated the contract, they didn't enforce it.

So fast forward to today. My brother is 50 yrs old, and still lives with them. Still not in recovery. Has protecting him helped him get sober? No. Is he healthier today thanks to my Mom stepping in every time there's a crisis? No. Is he happy? No.

We don't know what God, or Higher Power, has in his plans for my brother or your step daughter. But there's a plan. As long as someone (my Mom, your wife) keeps getting in the way of that, there is no hope of recovery. An adult, even at 21, has the right to make bad choices. But in exercising that right, they also have the obligation to experience the consequences of those choices.

You and your wife both need Alanon. It will give you so much information, support, and strength. Your wife may resist, but that shouldn't stop you.

I don't want to see anyone in my parents shoes. My Dad is 86, my Mom is 80. My Mom is only now seeing that her "efforts" have hurt my brother in the long run. She is now attending AlAnon.

Superdad454

My wife has been talking to the counselor assigned to her as well as the Psychiatrist she was supposed to be seeing, but obviously not enough. We were told early on that once they got through/below the addiction portion of her condition that they would be working on the deeper causes. Theoretically they were digging into her other issues of trauma and depression, neglect, abuse etc and there was some progress. However, apparently she stopped going to this therapist 3 weeks ago and was lying, or omitting, that fact to her mom. According to her counselor (not the therapist) she basically "aced" the treatment program but now that she is in a less strictly structured environment she is going back to allot of the same activities she engaged in when she was using, just minus the using.

At this point she is "done" with the 90 day intensive treatment program and is living in a sober living house with other young women and is supposedly going to groups and individual counseling daily, however, since it is not the inpatient facility (like the first 90 days), attendance isn't mandatory nor enforced so there is no one babysitting her to make sure she goes or enforcing rules if she doesn't.

So even if she was local to us, if she chooses not to go to a therapist, are we supposed to physically take her to one and sit outside and wait to make sure she actually goes?

Yes we are looking for a local Alanon group to go to so that WE can learn more about this and hopefully do what we can to support her, short of fully financially supporting her that is.

Florence

^^^ Co-signed.

This is an identical situation to my AH in his family. They always seemed so tight -- but the more I learned about addiction, the more I realized this "tightness" was codependency. They would try to draw lines in the sand, he would round them up like a sheepdog and put them back where he wanted them. His most effective methods were using our worst fears against us, keeping us in line with his explosive anger, and disappearing for days to reignite our fear when we did try to hold to our boundaries. It's hard to keep with your convictions when you're afraid he's dead in a ditch.

I am divorcing him now, but when I see him or hear about him through mutual friends, this dynamic is still in effect. He's 35, unemployed for over a year. His parents have told me that as far as they are concerned, he will never live on the street or go hungry, no matter what he does. They pay his child support for our daughter.

Addicts need people with poor boundaries to help them out. Once we build up our boundaries, it's not unusual for them to write us off completely. I don't know how I would reconcile that fear as a parent. Al-Anon helps a lot. I also had the help of an excellent counselor that helped me figure out how to take care of myself regardless of what he was doing.

m1k3

AlAnon has nothing to do with helping you help her, it has nothing to do with helping you learn more about her problems, it has nothing to do with helping you figure out the best way to support her.

It is all about helping you deal with the issues YOU are going through, the pain and suffering YOU are feeling and how to help YOU regain some sanity and serenity in YOUR lives whether your step daughter gets better or not.

Alanon is for you.

Your friend,

steelman1649

Superdad, let me chime in on a small portion of this.

In regards to the immaturity, dropping out of college, not holding a job, being a leech, I can relate. I had all of those problems in my early 20's. Looking back I still can't figure out why I was unable to "grow-up" and learn some responsibility. Eventually there were simply things in life that I wanted, and guess what, it took a job to get those things.

I probably wasted $20,000 of my parents money during that period of my life in tuition room and board etc. I'm sure they were going through hell and extremely angry. The point is, I grew out of it. Now I'm successful and working on an advanced degree. I have paid back my parents and then some.

Not everyone matures at the same rate, just to let you know there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Of course there's a lot more to deal with, but I pray you have the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can, and wisdom to know the difference.

JustAGirl1971

Just in case you need it:
Al-Anon - how to find a meeting

Upsetnneedhelp

I highly doubt the rehab is a "country club". You should be commended on sending her to good rehab though. Much the same way is said when politicians get sentence to Federal prison camps. Guess what? A low level Federal prison is still prison. Your daughter has serious emotional issues and it runs much deeper than doing "stupid stuff".

Superdad454

My wife has been talking to the counselor assigned to her as well as the Psychiatrist she was supposed to be seeing, but obviously not enough. We were told early on that once they got through/below the addiction portion of her condition that they would be working on the deeper causes. Theoretically they were digging into her other issues of trauma and depression, neglect, abuse etc and there was some progress. However, apparently she stopped going to this therapist 3 weeks ago and was lying, or omitting, that fact to her mom. According to her counselor (not the therapist) she basically "aced" the treatment program but now that she is in a less strictly structured environment she is going back to allot of the same activities she engaged in when she was using, just minus the using.

At this point she is "done" with the 90 day intensive treatment program and is living in a sober living house with other young women and is supposedly going to groups and individual counseling daily, however, since it is not the inpatient facility (like the first 90 days), attendance isn't mandatory nor enforced so there is no one babysitting her to make sure she goes or enforcing rules if she doesn't.

So even if she was local to us, if she chooses not to go to a therapist, are we supposed to physically take her to one and sit outside and wait to make sure she actually goes?

Yes we are looking for a local Alanon group to go to so that WE can learn more about this and hopefully do what we can to support her, short of fully financially supporting her that is.