I keep falling for it
 

It started as a nice day. Civility at least, and I didn't need feeding

Yesterday, it was only moans about a few flecks of emulsion paint on her table lamp. "It was expensive." Not, you'll note, "Thank you, darling, for taking your failed surgery backbone and, despite the pain, painting three ceilings. Sorry it put you in bed for a day."

This afternoon, I went to the shooting club, for Xmas dinner and a little competition target work. Lovely dinner, won two prizes for shooting well, interesting chat.

Back home, wifey still abed. She started. We have bank accounts that I look after. She got it into her head that I divert funds, which I don't. So, she went into the online accounts and whining about a £40 money transfer made 18 days ago.

I got the rounds of the bedroom over this. I explained a similar transfer - I'd drawn cash for her to get her hair done. The other, I couldn't recall. I found it later...my slipped disc and I had got her more cash out to go for a meal with friends. At the same time, I picked up some makeup for her, took her and friend to a pub and back (22 mile round trip) and put up with the car smelling like a brewery.

Now, she wants to discuss it tomorrow, "When I'm sober so you can't point fingers about my having drunk too much." She also wants a note of every transaction in the accounts.

So, that's...

Honesty impugned again
Sworn at again
Accused again
Angered...again
Day spoiled...again

I see the counsellor tomorrow but I've been downstairs, alone, for 5 hours.

Horrible woman :headbange

Yesterday, it was only moans about a few flecks of emulsion paint on her table lamp. "It was expensive." Not, you'll note, "Thank you, darling, for taking your failed surgery backbone and, despite the pain, painting three ceilings. Sorry it put you in bed for a day." as a person with a BAD BACK, you did not NEED to do the ceilings yourself. you NEED your back, not to be put in bed all day.


This afternoon, I went to the shooting club, for Xmas dinner and a little competition target work. Lovely dinner, won two prizes for shooting well, interesting chat. good for you! i'm glad you are keeping up with your own interests!

Back home, wifey still abed. She started. We have bank accounts that I look after. She got it into her head that I divert funds, which I don't. So, she went into the online accounts and whining about a £40 money transfer made 18 days ago. oh so what. YOU are in charge of the accounts.

I got the rounds of the bedroom over this. I explained a similar transfer - I'd drawn cash for her to get her hair done. The other, I couldn't recall. I found it later...my slipped disc and I had got her more cash out to go for a meal with friends. At the same time, I picked up some makeup for her, took her and friend to a pub and back (22 mile round trip) and put up with the car smelling like a brewery. got HER more cash for stuff for her, bought HER some makeup, took her and her friend to the PUB and back. enabling.

if we don't like how they get when they drink, then we should not BUY them alcohol OR drive to the to the pub so they CAN drink. and then complain about how they get when they drink.


Now, she wants to discuss it tomorrow, "When I'm sober so you can't point fingers about my having drunk too much." She also wants a note of every transaction in the accounts. so all this "talk" transpired when she was drunk. do yourself a favor and DO NOT ENGAGE with a person under the influence. it's madness on your part.

Honesty impugned again
Sworn at again
Accused again
Angered...again
Day spoiled...again

quit listening. quit giving her power. own your own day. it WAS good when you did for yourself. you will never get from her what you want. you will get exactly what you've been getting. again.

AnvilheadII your answer brought tears to my eyes. It's so true.

When I was in the US with bf, I was in charge of our bank account -and anything related to money really, because he doesn't know how to (neither care to) save money. Everytime one of his crises would come up, he would keep asking about how much money we have or start an argument and said it didn't add up. "You know you can just tell me you spent $20 dollars on yourself !". "YOU bought cigarettes and vodka".
I hope your counsellor will help you sort things out.

Snood, you seem to walk into it every time. Your AW chooses the time and place to ambush you and you spend however long it is explaining to her. While she's drunk. Her idea of having a talk when she's sober is sensible, but it could have come from you. You could have finished the scene with 'we'll discuss it in the morning when you're sober'.

You are feeling sorry for yourself as a victim - sworn at, doubted, accused etc etc. I know it sounds harsh, but while you engage with her when she's like this, what do you expect?
It seems that in these situations she takes on a parent role and you become the naughty child. That's not appropriate for an adult relationship.

I'm sure you're working this through with your therapist, but I'd be interested to know if your mother was an overbearing person, and you're flashing back to her when your wife gets angry.

Snood....have you thought about separate accounts? That is one of the very first things the counselor told us to do. He said every single couple should have separate accounts. This was not talking about addicts, etc, just what a married couple should do.

I agree, she is treating you like a child. You are a grown, responsible adult. Do you really have to account for if you spend $20? What if you just felt like it. She is completely overlooking the true issue...she was not even sober to be able to discuss it if you want to.

QUACK...QUACK...QUACK.

Gentle hugs. I am sorry you are going through this. You can disengage and not jump onto her crazy train. That is one thing you are not forced to do. I recently stepped off and it feels very good! It took me years to learn to disengage...but boy has it paid off in spades!

Thanks, folks.

My counsellor was being wise this afternoon. Not only disengage but buy wine for my wife! "You seem to enjoy it so much, have one on me." is the gist...reverse psychology at work. We'll see.

Prior to that, it was a morning's grief but I'm one the case...I'll be able to prove what she denies about the cash.

I may be out of line here. But your counsellor sounds suspiciously like she is encouraging you to try to control your wife's drinking habits. Surely your sessions should be about you, not about fixing your wife? That's not only counter productive for you, but unfair to your wife. Not to mention a waste of your efforts and cash.

your counselor suggested you buy alcohol for an alcoholic? and call that disengaging? YOU'VE BEEN BUYING HER BOOZE FOR YEARS. since whenever she lost her job, lost her income, you have paid for every ounce. what on earth do you hope to achieve by buying her MORE????

IMHO, that's not wise, that's borderline criminal.

Now this is interesting. My wife began buying her own booze, of her own accord, about three years ago. I didn't make her do this, I didn't ask her to either, it just happened.

My take on this was that it happened for one of two reasons. Either, in her sober state, she could appreciate that my paying for abuse was out of order...

or...

In buying her own plonk, she would be able to bar me from making any comment about it.

It's probably a combination of the two.

As regards what the counsellor said, I've heard of such a suggestion before. It's a 'paradoxical intervention'
(see Paradox psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

It's been around as a therapeutic technique for nearly 100 years.

The idea is to induce the person to question their own behaviour and start to realise they have control over it.

I'm thinking I'll get her a bottle of posh plonk for Christmas, making clear that it's for her alone. I believe it's worth a try, as a one-off exercise.

Just to put this into perspective, she's taking money out of her daughter's account. She does a lot of caring for the (sick) daughter but then again, daughter never contributes, for house cleaning, lifts, phone support, etc.

Suffice it to say that as per now, my wife is drinking £5.00 worth of booze ($8.14) every day. Our financial situation isn't great...do the math :c007:

Just bumping the thread with an update.

Had a good Al-Anon meeting this week. There were two new members, welcomed as usual. And one participant said something that struck a chord. This was about my not having to be a victim of alcohol, even though my wife is one. Wise thought.

Since then, we've been trundling along, occasionally crossing swords. As in more accusations of theft from the accounts, more lubricated patronization, more taking advantage. The usual stuff.

My wife had been to the office Christmas dinner (she works part-time), with her daughter. Then, daughter went out, leaving wifey to clean and organize her flat (more fool wifey). I was roped in to do some electrical DIY.

While I went out to shoot arrows at targets, she got more oiled, so I'm downstairs typing again. I was called up because one of the cats 'wasn't well'. This meant the 13-y-o cat that's adopted me was just creaky and rheumatic as normal. Then it got personal, so I walked again.

Christmas comes but once a year. Just as well, IMHO.

Just a little clarity: there is no "sober" state at this point. There is just the state when she hasn't started drinking yet or is hungover. Sober is when she has stopped drinking completely, the fog has lifted and she has begun the process of recovery: a week and then month and then years long process.

What she is when she is not actively drinking is not sober: she is just not drunk yet. Her mental attitude is still that of an active alcoholic.

Second, there are as many uninformed therapists who don't have a clue about alcoholism as there are fish in the sea.

Your therapist's suggestion to buy alcohol for an alcoholic is ludicrous. Fancy words like paradoxical intervention might work with people who have non-addicted forms of behavior problems, but addiction is in it's own category. The use of this technique is based on the mistaken idea that she falls into the range of typical problem behavior, ignoring her addiction. She is not suffering from a behavior problem, she is an alcoholic. Your therapist wouldn't be the first one trained in traditional therapy for average people...who doesn't have a clue what an alcoholic is.

That bottle will have no significance to her: she will think Yay: I don't have to go to the liquor store today! And, then,if you've bought high alcohol content booze for her, she will proceed to ruin whatever is left of the holidays.

It's not your job to apply any therapy to your wife. It's also insane to think that her drinking something will somehow help her stop drinking. Actually, properly insane in the sense of doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. When you give her that bottle, she will not appreciate any irony, she will think exactly the same thing as anyone else would. 'oh lovely, I will enjoy that later' except her needed mind will add 'he obviously doesn't think there's a problem either, see I new i am not an alcoholic' bud more delusion and more drinking.

My opinion, find another therapist. One with a degree in psycho therapy specializing in addiction. Someone who actually has a clue!

I'm just going to leave this here: Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi Snood, one quick question, what do you get out of all of this?

Since you attend Alanon I suggest that you do some serious reading on detachment. I know it really helped me to learn that I wasn't responsible for my alcoholic wife's

drinking,
not drinking,
happiness,
supply of booze,
projects,
laundry,
cleaning up after,
company,
entertainment,
or anything else she was capable of doing for herself.

I was allowed to focus on me and what I enjoy doing and I didn't need her permission to do it.

It's a great feeling to set yourself free.

Your friend,

To expound on what Mike is saying... If she's drunk, YOU don't have to do a DAMN thing for HER! If she needs you, she'll have to straighten the hell up. When you stop the Train, it stops! She will figure out really fast who's lost control and that's HER!

When she's running her lips drunk off her ass about this, that and the other, just look at her, smile and say, Well, it's been a long day Honey. I'm off to bed, I have things to do at the office or go out to the range. Whatever it is you are about to do. Short and sweet man. Get out of her way!

When I did this, it was the best thing I'd ever come across! He knew that the gig was up! He wanted to know who I was talking too and what I was reading. I told him NOTHING!!!! It was non of his business since his alcohol was clearly none of mine.

You can not argue with a drunk snood. You will lose every single time.

I was about to reply particularly to littlefish's response but as I appreciate your combined input, I'll address you all. Bit long, I'm afraid...

First of all, thanks for your input - it and that of Al-Anon are fast becoming invaluable.

I'd asked the question, 'Is my wife ever sober?' Tonight's happenings strongly imply the answer is no.

I did lots of errands today, among which was going to the rifle club, with Christmas cards, etc. A fellow-shooter, Sheila, had shortened two of my wife's skirts - very quickly and highly professionally. She'd already repaired another dress, so I paid her £15 in cash, her price for the three jobs.

Taking the clothes home later, I expected my wife to be pleased. She was, until I mentioned what I'd paid out...she just said "no" and intends to call Sheila tomorrow,

This was on top of her monitoring the bank accounts again, demanding that she be repaid for the shopping. The key point is that this was on a booze-free night, and the bottle I photographed on my way out is untouched.

Despite no drinking since last night's 1.5 bottles on top of probably 2/3 of one at lunchtime, she remains nasty.

I'd just like to point out that my counsellor is just that, not a therapist. In the UK, a counsellor explores and examines problems, and shouldn't really offer practical advice.

The 'buy wifey a bottle' thing is clearly very wrong, as you so rightly say. Perhaps my even considering it is a measure of the desperation I'm feeling. I've studied psychology myself and know that paradoxical interventions have their place. But not in addiction scenarios. Thank you for stopping me!

On the lighter note, I've just returned from the archery club's 'fun shoot'. I had a lovely evening, with friendly people. I was on the winning team and we all had a great time. NB: no nastiness, threats, criticisms, etc. Just banter.

Right now, Box, I'm downstairs in the kitchen...as you say, out of the way.I'm working on my own stuff, multitasking away. She's been in bed most of the day and evening, just did some washing up and ironing.Otherwise, she was watching TV.

I hate being accused of dishonesty. I hate that it's now "my money" and "your money". And I'm sick of being severely overdrawn and accused of frittering money away. In fact, I've been propping up the house/business/marriage with 'my money' for years. Guess what - she's a bit overdrawn...and she doesn't like it one bit.

Sorry to witter on but it helps. And Christmas? I'd rather not think of it.

Unfortunately snood, living with an active alcoholic is like being dishonest with yourself/ourselves, especially around other people who don't know. Someone stops in and everybody runs for their costumes and plays, This is a wonderful life! But don't get too close so you can't hear me mutter under my breath that this assh*le's been drunk for 2 effing weeks! Ya know what I'm saying?

Since it's your money and her money and she wants you to keep your grubby paws off her acct, can you have your access pin number changed so she can't use it? I mean, if she wants to get snippy, 2 can play at that game. CUT HER OFF. Get your acct back in good order.

She's the one who has to have sparkling wine.
I couldn't afford that for years when I was drinking.

Let her deal with her own finance and quit paying.
Do your own thing and as others have said,
it is useless and painful to let at drunk "reason at you"
about their paranoid ideas. Makes you crazy in fact.

Even if she stops drinking things are not going to change overnight. I am not trying to be harsh but you are really taking on a victim mentality in this situation. You do you and let her do her. I hope al-anon is helping you focus more on yourself. You're still monitoring her drinking, which is pointless and frustrating for you. Let her take care of her own stuff. Try to detach. Once you do it for a while you'll feel a a whole lot better.

Hugs to you.