mamacitared

Hi,

I have found myself here seeking some perspective on a terrible situation. I found out 3 weeks ago that my BF of 3.5 years may have cheated on me whilst extremely drunk. Well, I say 'may have' - he did, but he does not remember how far it went.

Here's some background:
Our 3.5 years together have been up and down and pretty emotionally intense. He has been battling for the whole relationship with alcohol and depression related issues the whole duration, but every hurdle we get over seems to make us stronger and him a little better.

When he is drunk he changes and becomes very aggressive and pretty nasty and does really stupid stuff. he has never physically abused me, but he has verbally abused many times in this state - and guess what - he can never remember it the next day. It usually happens because I have tried to prevent him drinking more. The last time he was like this was January this year when he went out for his birthday and ended up not getting let back in the bar as he was too drunk. It all ended messily. but since then he has kept things on a pretty even keel and has barely been more than a bit merry.

So, the problem:
About 3 weeks ago he was invited to a (male) friends/ colleagues flat for a thanks giving dinner party (we are in the uk so do not traditionally celebrate, but his friend is American and was sharing the love). I was invited but could not go but was happy for him to go and have a nice evening. The guys who were hosting are really nice, honest, level-headed sensible guys and i saw no problems.

throughout the night he called me a couple of times while he was having a cigarette to touch base, around 22:30pm he called me, still sounding sober enough and told me they had just started to play a drinking game. Again I wasnt too worried as recent months he has been pretty good at knowing when enough is enough.

But somewhere, somehow, something tripped in his head and he did not stop drinking, nor did he come home.

I awoke around 3:30am to see he was not back so text him to check all was ok. Did not get a reply so ended up calling him around 4:30am. I spoke to him and he sounded pretty wrecked and told me he had just gone to sleep and that I had woken him up but he is calling a taxi and coming home. Hearing how drunk he sounded I calmed him and just said that its ok if he wants to stay there and sleep it off, but he just should have let me know so i didnt worry. He got annoyed at me for saying that and said that he shouldnt have to ask my permission but the chat ended calmly enough that i managed to go back to sleep afterward. Next thing I know he's coming home at 6:50am, still very drunk, carrying a bag with 6 cans of beer inside which were leaking all over the place. I got really mad, he got nasty, then he went upstairs and fell asleep on the bed. I then went to work.

At this point i still didn't suspect cheating, this would be normal behaviour for him in this state... but then something else came to light.

One of the hosts posted a photo on Facebook the following day of the state of living room the next day and to my horror, the sofa had been dismantled and made into a makeshift bed on the floor - a double bed. This made me feel pretty uneasy as it was a clear sign that he slept next to someone else.

Anyway - this happened on thurs night/ fri morning, but i waited til saturday morning before i asked him. Fri night he was working late so got in late and we spent the night almost in silence. I knew something wasn't right.

When I asked him who slept next to him, I was so angry... it was a female work colleague (who he is not friends with independently, but she is friends with the hosts) who is pretty well known for being a bit of a ****. She has conducted inappropriate behaviour in the work place, thrown herself at numerous staff and customers, has been seen all over a drunk guy at a different house party a few weeks ago and apparently she has mentioned to another staff member that she thinks my BF was 'cute'. A few weeks ago they were all out for a work night out and apparently she went to hug him and just responded "Don't ever f*cking touch me". He has her on Facebook, but has never interacted with her on there, has never had her number, has never really spoken about her other than in contempt because she is terrible at her job. I have heard him sit with other colleagues slating her (and other people too) and saying how much she annoys him and how disinterested he is in anything she has to say.

So... I asked him if he cheated on me with her and to my horror his reply was 'Yes'. He the proceeded to tell me that he remembers there being a kiss which he said he let go on too long, then the next thing he recalls is waking up with her next to him 'spooning' him. He is pretty sure the were fully clothed apart from shoes. So yes, he cheated because he kissed her and allowed her to sleep next to him, but he does not know what else may have happened.

They were the last 2 awake and apparently they put one of the hosts to bed around 4am after he threw up everywhere. He says he doesnt really remember doing that but knows that he did. I know that at 4:10am he tried to call taxi home, the taxi never came (usually get a call or text when your car arrives) but there was no evidence to suggest it ever even dispatched. I don't know what this means but I think it shows that he did want to come home after putting his friend to bed and realising it was just the two of them left. as i say he doesnt even like this girl and only ever really speaks to her out of necessity at work.

But for some reason he didn't come home and decided to sleep there, which he probably decided not long before I called him at 4:30 and woke him up. He says he doesnt remember calling a cab, he doesnt remember speaking to me, even what he can remember is like holding onto a dream and he doe not know in what order events happened.

IT wasnt until he awoke friday afternoon at home that he remembered the kiss and waking up part. He panicked and tried desperately to contact a close mutual friend of ours for advice as he said he just didnt know what to tell me as he didnt know what happened. unfortuantely this friend was out of town and did not pick up his messages before I had bitten the bullet and confronted him. I believe he always intended to tell me, i just belive he was waiting to speak to our friend before he did. Telling this friend would be as good as telling me anyway and he knows that.

We confronted the other other woman and all she said was that she couldn't remember either, but she knows something happened. she also expressed that she didn't want to say what she thought happened as she would be pretty much speculating and if a realtionship depends on it then she does not want to say the wrong thing. Very ambiguous but the only person who can she more light.

There were 3 other guys in the flat at the time and when my BF asked them if they saw or heard anything unusual, none of them had and although they had gone to bed, a couple of them had stayed awake watching tv shows for a couple of hours.

So there is unaccounted for time between around 4:30am and 6:30am where he has no memory. I would really like to think that it is just because he went to sleep, this is what i would expect after he has been drinking pretty heavily for the best part of 10 hours. I can really imagine him just wanting to sleep - its what he normally does in that state. But the fact that I know a kiss happened and that he thought it was ok, or just not think it wasnt ok, to sleep next to her.

He doesn't know if had a black out or if he just passed out and slept.

He is as messed up over this as I am and it has become his rock bottom. He has sworn he will never let himself get into that situation again and part of this is to stop drinking entirely. he has told me that if he drinks again i am to leave him straight away. I want so much to reconcile, but its so hard when I can't find out what really happened. (when sober) He's always been so... besotted with me, so proud of me and us, he was even talking about me over dinner on the night.

It's just so out of character for him, even when blotted. He has told a handful of close friends and every one of them has shared the utter shock and disbelief as I have.

I guess i am sharing this here as I would like to here off anyone who may have faced a similar situation and if anyone can help me relate to what it like being in that state? Do you sleep? if he can remember hazy things before and after the unaccounted for time, does that mean it wasnt a proper blackout?
Can you're personality change THAT much to turn you into everything you have ever despised and do something with someone you don't even like?

I just feel so lost and am really trying to get a grip on this. I just need to share and seek opinions.

If anyone has any similar experience or just some advice, please feel free to chime in.

Thanks

BoxinRotz

And you want to be with this guy?

Black out drunk = ANYTHING GOES and they don't remember it.

He cheated. He's just given you a first class ticket to the possibility of a good life n *new* boyfriend (when youre ready) if only you take it and move on.

feeling-good

Hmmm... I'm not sure I completely agree. As a recovering alcoholic with nearly 11 months sobriety, I can remember whether or not I had sex with people, even though I have suffered complete blackouts (during which no sexual activity of any type occurred). However, that's me, so I can't say for sure if that's the case for your BF.

All I can say is that I'm sorry this has happened to both you and your BF and I wish you both the best going forward.

Hawkeye13

I'm very sorry this happened to you.
Once they start blacking out you are pretty far along the road to chronic alcoholism.

Usually, things just get worse from here. More blackouts, more misdeeds, no memory of them, or sometimes they do remember but say they don't to get off the hook.
I know I did when I was drinking.

So your choices become settling for that life, ending the relationship before kids
and marriage complicate things more, or waiting for him to get very serious about his
recovery and deal with his problem. That is also a very long lonely road which may
end with you still breaking up or him relapsing.

Sorry to be so bleak, but you should know honestly what you are dealing with.
You already live with verbal abuse and have some co-dependence issues if you've lived
with it for years. Educate yourself on this if you haven't before and remember
that you are a worthy, wonderful human being who should be treated with respect
and kindness.

Only you can choose the future path you take, but it seems pretty darn clear that
walking that road with him may not be in your best interest.

Best wishes to you and I hope he gets help for his problem.

theresearcher

I may have to agree with feeling-good. Unless your husband was extremely drunk or on drugs and experienced temporary amnesia/black out which also means that it would be difficult to perform sexually, then he probably would remember what he had done.

As you may know, alcohol hijacks the brain. When someone is drunk their preforntal-cortex of the brain, which is responsible for decision making, is actually subdued. This may explain why your BF cheated when drunk, but certainly does not excuse it.

I just wish you the best

EnglishGarden

You are "bargaining," unfortunately.

This means you are looking for any good reason to excuse and to forgive what has happened so you will not lose the alcoholic partner. This is very common behavior in the codependent partner. Bargaining, rationalizing the alcoholic's bad behaviors, minimizing the reality that the relationship is a very destructive one.

It is a relationship of intensity, extreme highs and extreme lows. The mistake is believing that after an intense low, the reunion has made the relationship "stronger." It has not. It is the temporary relief from emotional pain that makes both people feel a nice high in the relationship, and both are deluded and think they have bonded more closely. This also is a very common pattern in relationships with active addiction calling all the shots.

The reality is that you are with an active alcoholic and that alone means that the relationship will never be healthy, strong, or lasting.

He might find sobriety one day, but the chances are low, and even then, he would be unreliable and volatile for the first year.

Somehow you are going to need to find some help to examine why you are clinging to this painful relationship with an inappropriate partner. That is the true core issue here. When you do this self-examining, after some time, you will have a chance at a happy union with a mature and sober man.

jaynie04

I think gathering information about what may or may not have happened that night (more than what you already know) is somewhat pointless. In my mind you know all you need to know, and so does he. Whether he crossed some finite line and actually did the deed I don't believe is the litmus test as to whether or not he cheated.

From what you described it doesn't sound like he is a serial cheater, but having a relationship with anyone who is so messed up that they can't remember their actions the night before doesn't sound healthy. And it is not going to get better, unless he stops drinking, completely.

So I wouldn't waste time trying to find the invisible line he may have crossed to decide whether or not this matters. It matters, a lot, because if he doesn't get serious about his alcoholism you are guaranteed that there will be more and more of these, and infidelity may be the least of it, what if he had hurt someone? I am sorry that you are going through this. There are a lot of people here with a lot of experience and wisdom, and I think that when we are really close to something we lose our perspective. Worrying about whether he crossed a line within that two hour time frame sort of sounds like arranging deck chairs on the Titantic…..There is such a big problem that is so central here, I know that distinction about cheating/not cheating feels like the issue, but it really isn't. The issue is knowing you deserve a whole lot better, he may be remorseful now, but his guilt won't keep you safe or happy.

mamacitared

Thanks for the replies thus far

@BoxinRotz:
Yes, I absolutely do want to be with this guy. Despite our problems in the past we have come so far and supported each other through some extremely challenging times (he and I) - not alcohol related. He does not seem to have a physical dependency on alcohol and can go for lengthy periods of time without drinking. Up until now I think he believed he had a handle on it as was only drinking a couple of nights a week and only a few beers, not to the point of being drunk. But he does have a kind of systematic, progressive psychological dependency that comes in waves which get fewer and further between each time.

To be honest I have already made the pain staking decision to stay with him and reconcile as I believe that what we had/have is too precious to lose over a possible drunken one night stand.

@feeling-Good:
This is more the kind of thing i came here to explore... the nature of a black out or passing out and what (if anything) goes through your mind in that state and things you are likely or less likely to recall the morning after.

@Hawkeye13
I appreciate your wisdom.
At the moment I don't know if he did have a complete blackout. I am not really a drinker and drink maybe once or twice a month - get drunk maybe once or twice a year at the most. I have been very very drunk before and have had memory loss, but have never completely blacked out and lost hours of a night... i just cant remember everything as if i was more sober. He can still recall some things from quite near to the time that is unaccounted for. He certainly seems committed to making things better and to stopping drinking. He has not touched a drop since and seems pretty ok so far. I understand there is the risk of relapse, but if that happens I assure you he will be out the door for sure.

I do live with the verbal abuse, but even that is so rare these days and i have learnt to just walk away and leave him to sleep it off if he is in that mindset. I have never depended on him for anything in terms of material things, career, financial support, none of it... I never have depended on a significant other for that. I depend on him for what he brings to the table emotionally and when he is sober - its all wonderful stuff.

He cannot remember making the 'floor bed' but this is something he has often done if he's stayed at a friends house, he's even done it at home a few times. So its not entirely unusual to me that he would do that.

@theresearcher:
I am not making excuses for what he has done in any way shape or form, posting here is a part of my healing and catharsis as i feel i need to get a grasp on things a little better and to educate myself where possible Its how i dealt with my mums cancer diagnosis and its how i must try and cope with this.

The fact that he told me, has owned what he has done and taken responsibilty for his actions shows some strength of character in my book. If he wanted to cover it up, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for him to do. but he has not, he has told me as much truth as he says he can (i still wonder if he is being completely honest, but at the moment I am doubting pretty much everything, understandably).

He has never ever even given me reason to suspect he would ever stray - he may be an aggressive idiot when drunk, but he has never been a cheater.

I believe that whatever happened, he had no intention of it happening until, perhaps, it happened...

I know drink is the true demon in this and had he managed to access his 'off switch' - he would have come home and been sleeping next to me that night.

Thank you for your thoughts everyone.

overit263

When I read this my thoughts are- he cheated, doesn't matter how far or what happened. He cheated plain and simple. You just have to decide if you can live with someone that does that to you or not. Like EnglishGarden said, you're trying to bargain to make it okay, and it just isn't okay. I would ask myself - could I be intimate with a person that's done this to me, can I live with them and be in a relationship with them knowing that they did this. How much does it matter that he was drinking when he did this? He could have not participated in the drinking game and come home. That's just me, the decision is yours to live with

AnvilheadII

two words: UNPROTECTED SEX.

LifeRecovery

mama-

It was an act of infidelity that finally got me dealing with the fact that my hubby also struggled with an addiction to alcohol.

For some reason I had a backbone about the infidelity like I could not around the alcohol.

My question is how do you feel about his addiction? Not just the fact that he cheated while intoxicated but it sounds like the intoxication on many occasions has presented problems for you.

It took a long time for me to understand that if I was going to stay with my hubby I had to take him, when he was sober AND that he might not find recovery from his alcoholism (and potentially all the stuff that came with it).

Both of these are really hard things to deal with....what are you doing to take care of yourself right now?

Upsetnneedhelp

mammacit, it is a bit insane that you are acting like a detective and trying to track each hour over what happened. I would highly doubt your boyfriend just went to sleep next to some girl who was probably as drunk as he was. Him coming home with a 6 pack of beer at 7AM is a sign of a alcoholic.

mamacitared

@EnglishGarden:
Thanks for your perspective. Most of the time things are good between us, we share a load of pretty unique common interests and always have lots to talk about intellectually and emotionally. His drunken episodes have gotten much fewer over time and less intense as well. for the past year or so - the majority of the time things have been pretty good, just bickering over the usual stuff like housework and money.

Perhaps I am bargaining - but probably because I have already made the decision to stay and work it through, I need to rationalise things in my own mind to be able to start the process of forgiveness.

My older sister went through a similar issue with her partner (who ironically shares the same name as mine) where he would have these horrendous drunken episodes and he was perhaps more abusive than my BF. In one of his drunken episodes he ended up going to a massage parlour and paying for sexual gratification. She also decided that she wanted to save her relationship and thats what they did. Both went to counselling and took positive steps toward change. More than 3 years down the road and they are happy, have a lovely house and beautiful 2 year old boy and an awesome puppy and they are so very happy together now. She has counselled me somewhat and does believe that forgiving this behaviour is possible, but forgetting is not.

we are still young, him 25, me 29 so i do believe that change is possible for both of us (i've not exactly been miss perfect in this whole relationship either - i give as good as i get sometimes but ive never cheated) and i think this could be a real opportunity for us both to affect a positive change in ourselves and thusly our relationship.

I am not excusing his actions at all... but i also know that in past relationships, I have done far worse than have a drunken one night stand, i also know that i would never do it again as i still feel guilty about it after more tan 5 years! I believe sometimes people can change when they make their worst mistake and change for the better.

@Jaynie04:
You make a valid point. Its not about the line that got crossed in the grand scheme of things... its his lack of self control when he drinks. Please don't get me wrong - the vast vast majority of the time, he will go to the pub once or twice a week for 2 or 3 pints and thats usually it... it when he has these big binge type nights that things really go **** up.... and the last time was January when he was just being aggressive (not to me but to a doorman)

@Overit
I see your point! cheating is cheating no matter the blurred lines. The drinking game - yea of course he could have sat it out or just come home... but for some reason he gave himself a window to carry on drinking. I think its because he thought he had more control over it than he thought.

atalose

Your never going to get to "Happily Ever After" while traveling down this path with this person who clearly is not going to stop drinking. It's always going to be filled with lies, manipulation, cheating and BARGAINING.

You are already to blame away his cheating on HIS drinking while defending the fact that he doesn't always do this, doesn't always drink to this extent.

Each and every one of us has a bottom line - a deal breaker and for most cheating is at the top of that list. Cheating opens us up to a whole other level of worries. Disease being the main focus. And you did say this woman has a history of sleeping around.

Two things you are going to teach this man, one, that it's ok he drank to the point of blacking out and, two, that it was ok he cheated. You'll accept both and move on so that the next time, and yes there will be a next time, he knows that no matter what he does to harm you and the relationship you will always take him back.

Let go or be dragged, the choice is always ares. The letting go part is so overwhelming and filled with sadness, pain and fear. That we tend to hold on to the unacceptable so we don't go through the pain.

The other side of fear lies freedom!! Freedom to truly have the life we wish with the right person who's able to fully participate in that life.

mamacitared

@anvilhead2:
Don't worry - already thought of that and he has an appt next week with the clinic!

@lifeRecovery:
In terms of his alcoholism, I feel that it is the one thing that ruins him and stops him being the best person he can be and the best boyfriend he can be. I have (had) no problems with him going out for a few pints now and then, which is usually the case, its not often it escalates beyond that. Its just every now and then he loses control with it and cannot hit the 'off-switch' - it is these times when he becomes aggressive and disorientated and a completely different person to the man I love. Sometimes he ends up somewhere in between and will be drunk and annoying but not nasty. This is the case maybe 2 or 3 times a month. most of the time when he drinks he doesnt really get drunk at all. Doesnt stop him having a dependency though. I think this is why he lures himself into thinking its ok to get drunk now and then because he thinks hes in control, and this is why i believe he allowed himself to keep drinking on that night.

He certainly needs professional help. Luckily i work with a guy who my bf really gets along well with who is 5 years sober and still attends AA etc. He has said that he will be more than happy to take my bf under his wing and help him as he says he can kinda see himself 10 years ago and he would hate to see my bf go down the same route. so that might be a safe staring point for him.

@upsetneedelp:
I know it's insane! Don't get me wrong, im not crazy... its just in times of crisis i seek facts and information- its how i coped when my mother was diagnosed with late stage cancer last year... its just part of my process, one day i will just stop.
Also - i dont know if it is that unlikely that he just slept next to her... in that state id be surprised if he was capable of much else other than sleep... he came home and pretty much passed out again. The beers.... yeah im not sure if he intended to carry on drinking them at 7am... if he wanted to he probably would have done, but he just left them on the kitchen table leaking everywhere. then he just went upstairs and crashed out til later that afternoon.

mamacitared

@atalose:
Thanks for your reply.
I have a firm belief that he does mean to stop drinking.
He has never committed to it before, its always been, 'i'll have a month off' or 'im not drinking til this date' and most of the time he manages it pretty hassle free. He's never quite felt that he has reason to do more than 'tone down' his drinking. Until now that is.

He is young and i believe that the possibility for change is greater at a younger age as you are still going through so many natural life changes anyway - you grow up, you change, you get better.... or you get worse. He's at that crossroad now and he has made his decision.

I made it very clear to him that staying together was not going to be the easy option by any stretch of the imagination... in fact it would be far far harder in the long run. and h understands that.

I have adopted the '180' mentality. basically, he is on his own for the most part. I have stopped doing all of the things i did to look after him and support him and he has to take that responsibility and support me through my healing process.

It's all on him now. I have have opened up the second chance... he has to make it happen... at least until i am in a better headspace and feel more able to be a part of it again.

BoxinRotz

I'm glad you think he's going to change. I love reading a good fairy tale.

Florence

You're young. Whatever "unique" interests you share, I guarantee there is someone out there who shares your interests who doesn't lie and cheat on his partner.

I'm interested in why you think a cheating alcoholic is the only guy out there for you.

dandylion

mama--Florence got me to thinking. What if you had been raised in rural Odaho--gone to the local college and became an accountant--never traveling outsIde of your home state.

How in the world would you have met this guy that you feel is your only chance, in life, at a relationship? How would you have known that he was "the one"?? What would you have done?

dandylion

***I'm not trying to be a smart as*---though it may sound like it--mine is a serious question.

EnglishGarden

I don't think any of us can help you, I'm sorry to say, but I can assure you that most everyone here understands the state of mind you are in because most of us have experienced it.

But scanning your first few paragraphs, I'll recap that you write that during the entire three and a half years, your partner has been drinking, and that when he drinks he is "aggressive" "pretty nasty" and "verbally abusive". This is emotional abuse. Your partner abuses you. Consistently. Because he drinks, consistently.

And now there is the issue of his having sex with other women when drunk. (And many of here would doubt this is the first sexual betrayal.)

What is missing in your story is whether you have taken the time to read any books on alcoholism or any on codependency. Or whether you have taken the responsibility to seek any form of help from people in recovery, Al-Anon meetings, or counseling.

You are probably under 30 years old. Your youth makes you quite vulnerable.

And you are unable to process what is really happening because you are naive about the nature of addiction and about the condition known as codependency.

So the best maybe we can do is guide you to the links on our opening page, labeled "Sticky" and urge you to get educated. As well, the blog of Cynical One on this site (blue boxes at top for the blog) has many articles on the relationships between alcoholics and codependent partners.

You are in a syndrome. It has very specific symptoms. If you read the articles, you may gain some awareness. If you don't get any education about the syndrome of the alcoholic relationship, then the certainty is that as he gets sicker, you will, too.

Hoping that does not happen to you.