Newby, a bit confused and trying to find some support and information
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
Newby, a bit confused and trying to find some support and information
Hi everyone,
I'm new I just registered after reading some posts. I'm not sure if I am at the right place and I really don't know where to start my head is spinning!
So in short here's a little bit about me; I'm Clematis a 35 year old woman from Holland, so if my spelling isn't always right I'm sorry in advance!
I'm in a difficult relationship for 3 years now with someone with a severe drinking problem.
It was never easy and I encountered all the problems and side effects that come with an alcoholic. (Pff, It's so hard to type all this, sorry)
My partner has been to a clinic 2 times before and left both before it ended... I stayed, did nothing to stop him from drinking because I don't believe in pushing someone and I always believed that it first had to come to a point where he had to see for himself that alcohol isn't the solution. So about a month ago he had one of his nasty moods after drinking and I couldn't take it anymore! I just flipped out I mean I almost went crazy, I was so fed up of trying and being patient, it got so nasty that the police came... we didn't talk for two weeks I just cut him off. We don't live together so I had this option luckily... after 2 weeks of him desperately trying to talk to me, I got a message from him. He asked me if I thought he needed to check in to a clinic. So I answered. It's not important what I think you should do. You can think for yourself, if you think you need help then you do, but yes, I'm very worried, if you decide to go to a clinic, I will support you in every way I can.
He said: Okay, then I will pick up the phone right now!
And so he did. last Tuesday he went on a plane to South Africa (Cape Town). In about an hour he's phoning for the first time, so I will hear how he is doing. He will be there for 60 days. I am not worried about the 60 days there, although I miss him so very much! I am worried about the day he comes back. He will have a 3 month aftercare and i cross my fingers and hope he will go to the weekly meeting. But there is another obstacle his friends... they are heavy drinkers and that will be tricky, some of them are supportive and say if he comes back we're not going to make it hard on him, so we will not drink. the others just don't care, in fact if you say no to alcohol you're a ***** or something, that's why I am sort of an outcast in this group... I could really need some help here on how to support him and how to react. I am realistic I know he will relapse I just hope he will be strong enough to take it one day at a time and will ask for help or at least will say to himself, okay today it didn't work tomorrow I'll try again... what can I do to support him the right way?
I'm new I just registered after reading some posts. I'm not sure if I am at the right place and I really don't know where to start my head is spinning!
So in short here's a little bit about me; I'm Clematis a 35 year old woman from Holland, so if my spelling isn't always right I'm sorry in advance!
I'm in a difficult relationship for 3 years now with someone with a severe drinking problem.
It was never easy and I encountered all the problems and side effects that come with an alcoholic. (Pff, It's so hard to type all this, sorry)
My partner has been to a clinic 2 times before and left both before it ended... I stayed, did nothing to stop him from drinking because I don't believe in pushing someone and I always believed that it first had to come to a point where he had to see for himself that alcohol isn't the solution. So about a month ago he had one of his nasty moods after drinking and I couldn't take it anymore! I just flipped out I mean I almost went crazy, I was so fed up of trying and being patient, it got so nasty that the police came... we didn't talk for two weeks I just cut him off. We don't live together so I had this option luckily... after 2 weeks of him desperately trying to talk to me, I got a message from him. He asked me if I thought he needed to check in to a clinic. So I answered. It's not important what I think you should do. You can think for yourself, if you think you need help then you do, but yes, I'm very worried, if you decide to go to a clinic, I will support you in every way I can.
He said: Okay, then I will pick up the phone right now!
And so he did. last Tuesday he went on a plane to South Africa (Cape Town). In about an hour he's phoning for the first time, so I will hear how he is doing. He will be there for 60 days. I am not worried about the 60 days there, although I miss him so very much! I am worried about the day he comes back. He will have a 3 month aftercare and i cross my fingers and hope he will go to the weekly meeting. But there is another obstacle his friends... they are heavy drinkers and that will be tricky, some of them are supportive and say if he comes back we're not going to make it hard on him, so we will not drink. the others just don't care, in fact if you say no to alcohol you're a ***** or something, that's why I am sort of an outcast in this group... I could really need some help here on how to support him and how to react. I am realistic I know he will relapse I just hope he will be strong enough to take it one day at a time and will ask for help or at least will say to himself, okay today it didn't work tomorrow I'll try again... what can I do to support him the right way?
and hugs right now.Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
nothing wrong with some conditions made
sounds like you both love each other a lot
but
the old liquid devil (booze) is coming between you two
last time in which I ran a muck with the bottle
my wife put one condition if we were going to stay together
I must stay sober
true -- one will not stay sober for another
but -- if they wish to be sober for themselves
having their loved one stay with them due to being sober is a bonus
a good moral friend will not drink around one who is trying not to drink
usually when ones sober up
they do not hang around heavy drinkers
such as for me today
there is no reason for me to be hanging out in a bar
can I go to a bar and just shoot some pool without drinking
sure
but
why would I really wish to do that if sobriety is so very important to me
support him the best you can
but
nothing wrong with sharing with him that
if he does not stay sober
seems you two are headed for tragedy
assuming that he is alcoholic ????
in most cases it is a living hell
to be in love and living with a drunk who is still drinking
hoping for the best for you two
Mountainman Bob
sounds like you both love each other a lot
but
the old liquid devil (booze) is coming between you two
last time in which I ran a muck with the bottle
my wife put one condition if we were going to stay together
I must stay sober
true -- one will not stay sober for another
but -- if they wish to be sober for themselves
having their loved one stay with them due to being sober is a bonus
a good moral friend will not drink around one who is trying not to drink
usually when ones sober up
they do not hang around heavy drinkers
such as for me today
there is no reason for me to be hanging out in a bar
can I go to a bar and just shoot some pool without drinking
sure
but
why would I really wish to do that if sobriety is so very important to me
support him the best you can
but
nothing wrong with sharing with him that
if he does not stay sober
seems you two are headed for tragedy
assuming that he is alcoholic ????
in most cases it is a living hell
to be in love and living with a drunk who is still drinking
hoping for the best for you two
Mountainman Bob
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Welcome to SR, clematis. One of the most helpful things you can do for yourself right now is to educate yourself about alcoholism, what you can and can't do about it, and what you can expect from an alcoholic as far as behavior. Reading as much as you can here will help you in all these ways. Don't miss the stickied topics at the top of the page. Here's one you might want to read first. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html There's a lot of information in the stickies that you won't want to miss, and a lot of stories in the other posts that you may find familiar.
The other very important thing you can do is to get some support for yourself. Alanon is a great resource for both support and education. Here's a link to help you find a meeting: http://www.al-anon.org/ SR is a wonderful community, but it's good to have real-world help too in addition to online friends.
Again, welcome to SR. Everything likely seems overwhelming right now, but you don't have to DO anything right away. Take some time, get your feet under you, educate yourself and get to an Alanon meeting. You'll start to see your path becoming more clear.
The other very important thing you can do is to get some support for yourself. Alanon is a great resource for both support and education. Here's a link to help you find a meeting: http://www.al-anon.org/ SR is a wonderful community, but it's good to have real-world help too in addition to online friends.
Again, welcome to SR. Everything likely seems overwhelming right now, but you don't have to DO anything right away. Take some time, get your feet under you, educate yourself and get to an Alanon meeting. You'll start to see your path becoming more clear.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
thanks for your input Mountainman Bob,
I know I love him as for him... He has done and said so many things that hurt me when he was drunk the only thing I have are his words when he was sober: I am so sorry, but please don't forget I really love you and his words the night before he left I'm going to do this for me, for us and my kids... I have to, no choice!
We have known each other for 7 years now, and for both of us it really was love at first sight (if there is such a thing) at that point there was no drinking problem or at least not as bad, he had a good job We were both in a relationship with someone else, so we didn't do anything and lost contact. 3 years ago we saw each other again I immediately saw what happened and he was honest about his problem, he lost his job due to a re-organisation went to a clinic twice, he left twice because in the therapy sessions they started digging into his past, they came too close (?) I guess... Then it only got worse, he didn't deny he was an alcoholic he could admit that, he just didn't care anymore... In fact 5 years ago he had something with his heart the ambulance came and the doctors did some tests. They told him if he continued drinking he would have left 5 years.
Over the last 3 years he told me; I don't care anymore, I've nothing left to fight for! Iam weak I can't do it...
I felt so bad for him that he couldn't pick himself up.
The only thing I could say was; Look at you! don't be so hard on yourself you have 3 beautiful children, you are smart if you really want it you can do it... The only thing he could say to me was: Do you believe in fairy-tails, because I think you do!
I told him; No, I believe in you, but I can't do it for you. I will stay in good or bad times, but I can't do it for you....
And yes, looking back the past three years were a living hell, to be honest...
And now I am scared I don't know what to do, I had an invitation to a group-meeting from the clinic, but actually I don't want to go, I also have my own live, work and my own kids he already costs me a lot of energy. I would like him to attend those meetings and keep going there, then I will go, I don't see a point in going and putting in all effort if he's is not going to continue his meetings back in Holland... But maybe I am seeing this the wrong way.
I know I love him as for him... He has done and said so many things that hurt me when he was drunk the only thing I have are his words when he was sober: I am so sorry, but please don't forget I really love you and his words the night before he left I'm going to do this for me, for us and my kids... I have to, no choice!
We have known each other for 7 years now, and for both of us it really was love at first sight (if there is such a thing) at that point there was no drinking problem or at least not as bad, he had a good job We were both in a relationship with someone else, so we didn't do anything and lost contact. 3 years ago we saw each other again I immediately saw what happened and he was honest about his problem, he lost his job due to a re-organisation went to a clinic twice, he left twice because in the therapy sessions they started digging into his past, they came too close (?) I guess... Then it only got worse, he didn't deny he was an alcoholic he could admit that, he just didn't care anymore... In fact 5 years ago he had something with his heart the ambulance came and the doctors did some tests. They told him if he continued drinking he would have left 5 years.
Over the last 3 years he told me; I don't care anymore, I've nothing left to fight for! Iam weak I can't do it...
I felt so bad for him that he couldn't pick himself up.
The only thing I could say was; Look at you! don't be so hard on yourself you have 3 beautiful children, you are smart if you really want it you can do it... The only thing he could say to me was: Do you believe in fairy-tails, because I think you do!
I told him; No, I believe in you, but I can't do it for you. I will stay in good or bad times, but I can't do it for you....
And yes, looking back the past three years were a living hell, to be honest...
And now I am scared I don't know what to do, I had an invitation to a group-meeting from the clinic, but actually I don't want to go, I also have my own live, work and my own kids he already costs me a lot of energy. I would like him to attend those meetings and keep going there, then I will go, I don't see a point in going and putting in all effort if he's is not going to continue his meetings back in Holland... But maybe I am seeing this the wrong way.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
Hi clematis;
It sounds like you've been through a very difficult time with this person.
You really cannot "do" anything which will make him recover.
As you correctly stated in your contact with him, he can think for himself.
He is either ready and committed or not. That isn't your problem.
Your real problem (issue might be a better word) is you and working on your own recovery.
Please educate yourself on alcoholism and codependence.
The stickys honeypig marked are a great starting point.
If you still want to be a solid support for him when he gets out,
you must be solid in your own recovery.
Yes, even if you aren't drinking,
your relationship with an alcoholic affects you and needs attention.
You said in your last post how much energy this has already cost you and
that you need to live, work, and be there for your own kids.
That should absolutely be your first priority.
Recovering alcoholics take a great deal of time and energy,
and to be successful they must focus on their own recovery.
Please keep this in mind when you decide whether you want
to stay involved with this person.
Take care and best wishes
It sounds like you've been through a very difficult time with this person.
You really cannot "do" anything which will make him recover.
As you correctly stated in your contact with him, he can think for himself.
He is either ready and committed or not. That isn't your problem.
Your real problem (issue might be a better word) is you and working on your own recovery.
Please educate yourself on alcoholism and codependence.
The stickys honeypig marked are a great starting point.
If you still want to be a solid support for him when he gets out,
you must be solid in your own recovery.
Yes, even if you aren't drinking,
your relationship with an alcoholic affects you and needs attention.
You said in your last post how much energy this has already cost you and
that you need to live, work, and be there for your own kids.
That should absolutely be your first priority.
Recovering alcoholics take a great deal of time and energy,
and to be successful they must focus on their own recovery.
Please keep this in mind when you decide whether you want
to stay involved with this person.
Take care and best wishes
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
bottom line - only time will tell you more
Originally Posted by clematis 
he didn't deny he was an alcoholic he could admit that
They told him if he continued drinking he would have left 5 years
yes, looking back the past three years were a living hell
I would like him to attend those meetings and keep going there
then I will go
I have seen many a man in the AA Program and also many in the church today
who have sobered up for good and now lead a sober moral life
but to be very honest here
many others never do get a good taste of sobriety
and I have known many who die drunk
as posted by me many times here on site now
a good Lady friend of mine in the Program years ago
went back to her drinking and prescription pills
her doctor told her that "if she didn't stop she would be dead in 5 years"
she died almost exactly 5 years later - leaving a young son behind
continued sobriety is of most importance for your man
if
you two are going to have a fighting chance for a strong healthy relationship
give it time and see how he does
but
if we see no true desire for change (this is a every day decision)
the odds may be against you two
but on the other hand
if real change is seen and he stays sober
a great new life may be in the waiting
bottom line - only time will tell you more
prayers sent out
from
Mountainman
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
I've been surfing on the net for the last few weeks I know about co-dependence, enabling.
I can relate to some of the things. It's weird analyzing your own behavior. I can see that I adapted also.
But there are also things I did just the opposite.
I didn't want to rescue him because I didn't believe I could or should, I just hoped I could make a difference by just sticking around, but maybe that's the same.
Keeping his drinking a secret? No but there were a lot of friends that waved the problem away. Just the last year a few started listening and talking when they were present at some of the incidents that happened, the rest of his friends called me names behind my back (like jehova's witness or worse names) I laugh when I hear it but it hurts... I found out very quickly that I had to keep my own house, work and friends just so I could keep handling it all there I could get some rest and charge my battery
I also learned that if he was in a bad drinking mood or he said mean things, I could leave just like that! That kept me sane (well almost) during those 3 years.
I know it is a sickness, at least I see it that way, it's just I can't figure out this;
We had a talk in the weekend before he was leaving and I finally had the guts to ask him something like; why can't you stop after a few drinks, ... He said simply because I have no stop in my brain... Does it really work that way?
I can relate to some of the things. It's weird analyzing your own behavior. I can see that I adapted also.
But there are also things I did just the opposite.
I didn't want to rescue him because I didn't believe I could or should, I just hoped I could make a difference by just sticking around, but maybe that's the same.
Keeping his drinking a secret? No but there were a lot of friends that waved the problem away. Just the last year a few started listening and talking when they were present at some of the incidents that happened, the rest of his friends called me names behind my back (like jehova's witness or worse names) I laugh when I hear it but it hurts... I found out very quickly that I had to keep my own house, work and friends just so I could keep handling it all there I could get some rest and charge my battery
I also learned that if he was in a bad drinking mood or he said mean things, I could leave just like that! That kept me sane (well almost) during those 3 years. I know it is a sickness, at least I see it that way, it's just I can't figure out this;
We had a talk in the weekend before he was leaving and I finally had the guts to ask him something like; why can't you stop after a few drinks, ... He said simply because I have no stop in my brain... Does it really work that way?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by clematis
He said simply because I have no stop in my brain... Does it really work that way?
for the alcoholic
to put it very simply
Liquor ceased to be a luxury; it became a necessity
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
I have seen many a man in the AA Program and also many in the church today
My partner is in Cape Town right now the also work with the 12 steps. At this clinic part of the program is that I have to write a letter to him it has a name which I can't translate but I can describe it: A letter where I have to tell him how his drinking affected or hurt me. Is that normal? Because I am having a hard time writing this letter I have to recall things that happened, it doesn't feel good to bring all those things up. The day he went on that plane I choose to turn the page around and start with a new chapter, I don't want to hurt him by bringing all those things up again
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by clematis
Because I am having a hard time writing this letter I have to recall things that happened, it doesn't feel good to bring all those things up.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
He called, we had just about 3 minutes to talk, just enough to tell him about his mail, and to ask each other how we were doing (way too short)
But when I asked him if the 12 steps is something for him, he said, Yes! I'm giving it my best effort and will continue to do so. I am so glad to hear that because he asked for my opinion before he choose... I'm sad and happy right now!
But when I asked him if the 12 steps is something for him, he said, Yes! I'm giving it my best effort and will continue to do so. I am so glad to hear that because he asked for my opinion before he choose... I'm sad and happy right now!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
If he's going to have true recovery, then he has to face the collateral damage he has caused. That's why his program wants you to write that letter. The good thing is, he's with counselors etc who can help him process what you say to him in the letter. Recovery isn't about just not drinking, it's about facing the issues and learning new tools to deal with life.
When my RABF went to an in patient program, they encouraged me to attend the family recovery program. I felt exactly like you. Why do I have to attend? I have enough going on. It's his recovery to work on. But I gave in and went....and am forever grateful that I did. It wasn't about him, it was focused on me. It was the beginning of facing my own recovery, and my role in the alcoholic relationship. I realized, if we were going to be successful, then I had to work as hard on my recovery as I wanted him to work on his!
When my RABF went to an in patient program, they encouraged me to attend the family recovery program. I felt exactly like you. Why do I have to attend? I have enough going on. It's his recovery to work on. But I gave in and went....and am forever grateful that I did. It wasn't about him, it was focused on me. It was the beginning of facing my own recovery, and my role in the alcoholic relationship. I realized, if we were going to be successful, then I had to work as hard on my recovery as I wanted him to work on his!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
If he's going to have true recovery, then he has to face the collateral damage he has caused. That's why his program wants you to write that letter. The good thing is, he's with counselors etc who can help him process what you say to him in the letter. Recovery isn't about just not drinking, it's about facing the issues and learning new tools to deal with life.
When my RABF went to an in patient program, they encouraged me to attend the family recovery program. I felt exactly like you. Why do I have to attend? I have enough going on. It's his recovery to work on. But I gave in and went....and am forever grateful that I did. It wasn't about him, it was focused on me. It was the beginning of facing my own recovery, and my role in the alcoholic relationship. I realized, if we were going to be successful, then I had to work as hard on my recovery as I wanted him to work on his!
When my RABF went to an in patient program, they encouraged me to attend the family recovery program. I felt exactly like you. Why do I have to attend? I have enough going on. It's his recovery to work on. But I gave in and went....and am forever grateful that I did. It wasn't about him, it was focused on me. It was the beginning of facing my own recovery, and my role in the alcoholic relationship. I realized, if we were going to be successful, then I had to work as hard on my recovery as I wanted him to work on his!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,490
Clematis - I am very impressed at how you handled your employment situation and at how you have been handling your alcoholic partner and your ex husband. I think you can do al-anon meetings online, but others would be able to say for sure.
I would love to hear how things work out for you. SR is a great place with a lot of amazing people and experience - welcome!!!
I would love to hear how things work out for you. SR is a great place with a lot of amazing people and experience - welcome!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 39
Thanks, that's sweet!
And it feels good to talk to the people here and empty my head. As for my situation I think my strength is also my weakness here. I don't want to walk out when things get hard.
I see my ABF/RBF? as two people the pleasant, sweet, intelligent, funny BF and the ABF who's angry, mean, selfish...
The funny thing is humor and always being able to talk about the bad things that happen has been keeping us together... The biggest compliment I ever got was when he talked to his son about going to a clinic and if there was anything he could contact me... his son asked him if he was serious about me. His father said: son, I know you are worried but you don't have to be, she stayed all those years and I gave her such a hard time and I've hurt her and disappointed her over and over again she takes me as I am and never judges, that has never happened to me and I really love her .... The son has texted me this the day before his father left, the best text message ever it gives me hope...
And it feels good to talk to the people here and empty my head. As for my situation I think my strength is also my weakness here. I don't want to walk out when things get hard.
I see my ABF/RBF? as two people the pleasant, sweet, intelligent, funny BF and the ABF who's angry, mean, selfish...
The funny thing is humor and always being able to talk about the bad things that happen has been keeping us together... The biggest compliment I ever got was when he talked to his son about going to a clinic and if there was anything he could contact me... his son asked him if he was serious about me. His father said: son, I know you are worried but you don't have to be, she stayed all those years and I gave her such a hard time and I've hurt her and disappointed her over and over again she takes me as I am and never judges, that has never happened to me and I really love her .... The son has texted me this the day before his father left, the best text message ever it gives me hope...
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