Lyssy

Full name of the book is Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control You.

http://www.amazon.com/Controlling-Pe...to+control+you

Any one read it? Opinions?

I have to figure out if this is what my rAH is doing. My gut tells me it is, but, well, you know, us codies doubt our guts! There are just some behaviors that he is (still) doing (9 months sober) that are bothering me and am looking for answers.

Thanks

dandylion

Lyssy......Might I ask what kind of program of recovery your husband is working?

dandylion

dandylion

Lyssy, I haven't read this particular--but, I read the reviews and they looked pretty good.
I would get the used one....LOL.

I don't think you can go wrong by getting this book. You are bound to learn something...LOL.

dandylion

Lyssy

He is in AA (attending during lunch hour during the week, but maybe not every day). He also attends Relapse Prevention (Tuesdays) and Aftercare (Saturdays) at the detox/rehab facility he went to, but, again not every week, but most. He has supposedly already worked his 12 steps (in just over 6 months) and to the best of my knowledge has not been in (or very minimal) contact with his sponsor since. This is just from my observation from what he has said, I do not discuss it with him or ask any questions.

Dandylion, I just can't put my finger on what is wrong, but something is not right. He still has stinky thinking and covert actions (hiding things). I tend to take EVERYTHING at face value, don't question actions, etc. I have always been that way. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I don't hold a grudge and for the most part I am a very trusting (maybe overly so) person, so this is all new to me, so yeah, I will definitely learn something from it. I know some of this is on me and my trust issues (with rAH). I don't and never have tolerated ANYONE lying to me and since I have found out some of the things that were going on before he went to rehab I doubt everything with him.

I will get the audible book so I can listen to it in the car.

dandylion

Lyssy---It does sound like he got his recovery off to a good start--and, it is good for him that he is still attending AA. Of course, recovery is not something that you "complete" in 6mo.....LOL. It is a life long process. The steps are also an ongoing process.
He has been like this for many years, it sounds like. It takes a while to change the thinking and attitudes behind his behaviors--the things that drove the alcoholism.

Even so, who knows whatever other personality features and issues he has in addition to the ones that can be attributed to alcoholism.

What matters the most, here, is what behaviors are you living with and what are you willing to---or not willing to accept. You have the right--and responsibility--to decide h ow you want to live.

You have to take care of your life and your happiness above all else--otherwise you are no good for anyone else---especially YOURSELF.

I applaud your motivation and desire to learn and to explore.

dandylion

mry

I just finished this book. My RAH was asked to read it as part of his outpatient treatment. There was a lot in the book that made sense to me. I used to tell my husband that he had no idea who I was and that he didn't really listen when I told him how I felt about things. This fits with him having an idea of who I am inside his head and when it matches with the real me, we were fine, but when I don't act as he expects, he can not handle or understand the situation and feels the need to control my behavior.

I found the solution to be a bit bizarre - telling the controller "what" each time they say something controlling. I find it hard to believe that this will actually work. Or maybe I'm just still too caught up in trying to logically point out the controlling behavior which allows the controller to continue thinking his pretend person is reality.

dandylion

I had to deal with a controlling husband (narcissist) before I had ever learned anything "academic" about this term. All I did actually "know" is what it felt like to having my soul
crushed--of never feeling free to just be my natural self. It feels like dying deep inside by a thousand cuts.

Actually--if I had read all the books, at that time, I already knew the most important thing to know.
I just "knew" that I had to save my soul (and, my children) ----I couldn't change him and I knew I had to leave. I did that--and I will never be sorry for that decision. That was a verrrry long time ago.....LOL.

dandylion

I do advocate to learn as much as you can--knowledge is power--both, book knowledge and "knowing your soul" level knowledge.

lizatola

I should read this, too, LOL! Like mry, my AH likes to tell me how I feel and how I think, and how I will react to a situation. Actually, it was one the very big issues I have been trying to point out to him every time we talk. He said recently that we don't always have to be right all the time, I pointed out that I never get my opinion heard anyway since he contradicts every thing I say and tells me how what I really feel is 'this' or how I will feel next week will be 'that'. It's maddening.

But, while reading books like this, I remind myself to see how much of ME I see in them. Do I do things like that? Which behaviors can I start controlling today to make my life more peaceful? Thanks for the book recommendation.

Lyssy

I do not believe he is addressing this issue.

As stated above, if he is not addressing the core issues, I feel that the current behaviors will not be resolved either. I cannot live like this, but I also don't want to "carry" issues over with my recovery either.

The answers may or may not matter, but I feel I must explore them since the results will either rescue or end an 18 year marriage. I guess making sure that my issues are mine and his are his and each needs to own them. I am willing, I don't see the same effort on his part.

dandylion

Lyssy--please see my last post---12:54PM.

dandylion

Lyssy

See that wont work for me. I don't usually see it until way too late. Three days after the fact - I am driving to work and thinking - WTF?? What was that all about?? I can come up with responses (and usually really good ones), but it is days or even weeks later. It is like my brain short circuits or something. As I said before, the behavior is usually overt and I just don't deal with that behavior well. In my everyday life, dealing with others (work and other personal relationships) if it happens, I just cut them out of my life. Walk away. It is not acceptable behavior for me.

I am hoping this book may help me recognize the behavior when it is happening or at least see it sooner and help me stop being so naive.

Thank you for your review! I appreciate it.

lizw

Interesting topic. Timely for me as the other day myself and an al anon friend were talking about this very thing.
Her marriage broke up and during the course of that marriage she lost contact with her mother as her husband became her chief controller and they wrestled for control over her - this is what she told me.

It stuck in my mind as I think it is a very victim type thing to say or think. It may or not be true, what she said, for herself.
But for me, I have no power over others behaviour but only my own and that can include believing others have the power to control me.

Just because someone gives it ago doesn't mean I have to participate in it or accept the behaviour.

I've had a recent incident with what I would call a 'controlling person" and I had no trouble identifying it for what it was.

atalose

When I got honest with myself about my controlling ex husband I realized he had always been controlling and that the control grew worse when I attempted to focus on me and my wants and needs.

I learned a long time ago that to focus on HIM and try and figure HIM out and why he was like that did ME no good. As a matter of fact all it did was prevent me from working on me.

Your planning on meeting with an attorney to discuss dissolving your marriage, at this point in time, you focusing on HIS recovery or not recovering, his controll issues......how is that in any way going to help YOU?

Lyssy

I am hoping to prevent falling into the same situation in the future. Also, a lot of his behaviors revolve around controlling my actions, reactions and responses (again in an overt manner that is hard for me to recognize). It also revolves around finances.

I will try and give you a brief (minor imo) scenario..

I trying to detach and take care of myself I have begun to make plans without him. What ever they are (lunch with a friend, shopping) or even doing something when he is say, golfing with his buddys. He has and will "make plans" with me and then at the last minute cancel. He will also "suggest" an outing at the last minute, there is NO planning ahead in our lives together and yet, he can make plans with his buddys for a golf outing two-three weeks ahead and "forget" to tell me. I could care less if he goes golfing or what ever he wants to do. I enjoy my time alone at the house working on crafts and projects without his interference. Just tell me so I can make my own plans. He has an issue with me doing my own thing - hence the control.

Again, this is a very minor example, but one that was easiest to explain here.

Edited - I think my guilt has something to do with it also. I feel guilty (or he makes me feel guilty) for detaching/getting on with my life. I guess 18 years of marriage, verbal and emotional abuse and codependency will do that to a person.

dandylion

Lyssu--your example sound like plain 'ole lack of respect and value for you as a person---very self-absorbed narcissistic attitude toward you.

dandylion

Lyssy

Thank you. Whatever it is I am miserable. I think it would be easier if the actions were consistent, but they aren't and it keeps me constantly off balance. My brain never knows what do do or how to act. The financial crap is almost as bad. And he plays dumb or feigns ignorance with a cheerful smile.

I must make the appointment with the attorney. I also need to talk with her about my will and get all that in order. A lot if stuff that I dont know what to do, but not having any children I need to figure out who to leave it to. I am going to talk with my brother tomorrow and get some advice.

dandylion

Good for you Lyssy in seeing the attorney---doing something proactive for yourself.

dandylion

Booo

Lyssy this used to happen to me all the time. I was a people pleaser so if I felt slighted, I would brush it off until I could bounce it off a few people to see how I "should" feel.

And when I say bounce it off, some of these things I bounced around for YEARS.

I knew I was making progress when I started to feel things within a month, and then within a week. Being with a narcissist who of course told me that I should not FEEL that way did not help.

I progressed to feeling my feelings within a few days and then hours (this took years and being in a very very safe relationship, well, until his A issues began to surface,) but NOW I can feel almost immediately. Not react, I can still take time to process so I don't lash out as hurt, hurtful, slighted, defensive, etc I try to take the time to process before I say or do anything.

I think being Co is VERY controlling for many of us, we try to control the drinks,the friends, the car Keys the atmosphere, so not to upset the apple cart. I might check this book to break my own controlling habits and learn to handle the few people in my life who try to control me. My AH is not one of them, unless alcohol induced lying is controlling.
I am not sure how I feel about that yet.

LifeRecovery

Lyssy-

I was going to quote a couple of your comments and then I realized I would have to do a lot of them.

My ex was similar with plans. He could plan for work, he could plan for drinking related activities, he would change his mind at the last minute....and then be nuts that I would not want to change. I thought this was my fault for a long time.

I don't know if he was attempting to control me or not. He got diagnosed with ADD right before we split, and for him this could have been a result of this.

What was mine, was how I reacted to it. I took it on, I spent hours trying to fix it etc.

I also can relate to the part about not realizing it until after the fact.

My therapist helped me to see that for me this was part of my family stuff, and she assured me that awareness, acceptance and action would play out, and the time frame in which I would realize it would shorten. She was right. For a long time it took me weeks to realize I was upset, had been manipulated etc. As I have grown in my recovery this time frame is shorter and shorter that I realize what is going on. When I know in the moment what is going on I "react" more appropriately, and I have the space to call a spade a spade. It also allowed me to have compassion for myself. My exAH was very reactive and immediate (not always appropriately). Learning about myself allowed me to see that not getting it until a few days later does not mean I don't get to say something....it just means it took a bit to get there.

Lyssy

Thought I would bump this up with my review and thoughts on the book. I wrote this in some hurry so I apologize if it doesn't flow well or the wording is a bit off.

The book details the reason of controlling behavior.

A controller has an imaginary person in their mind which will act a certain way (a backwards connection) and when the authentic persons acts do not match the controllers image of the imaginary person and when the authentic self (witness) behaves in a way different than what the controller’s imaginary person would it generates discomfort with the controller causing an irrational response.

In the controllers mind when a person is their authentic self the controller is unprepared because it is not how the imaginary person would behave.

A spell-breaker is a person that “calls-out” the controller for their behavior (spell). The spell-breaker can be anyone who sees the controlling behavior including the witness (i.e. the person being controlled). Most times the controller does not even realize that their actions/behaviors are controlling and when the spell-breaker points out the controlling behavior the controller is thrown off balance.

The book also touches on the "one to many" control environments (Taliban, Hitler, cults) and how control can be taken to the extremes.

There is also a section on why controlling behavior is unhealthy and how, by controlling people, they are unable to be their authentic self and why authentic self is so important.
*****

I highly recommend this book. It is clinical, but written in layman’s terms and interlaid with examples and stories. It does get a bit “deep” but not so much that it distracts from the message.

Now, before I give my last opinion, let me say that I know that A’s are the exception to most clinical behaviors because they considered to have a disease (not agreeing or disagreeing, not an argument for this time), but I feel anyone here would benefit from this book. If not to better understand the A’s behavior, than to better understand your own.

--- What exactly is an alcoholic? They are a person, no matter what they try or do, ultimately try to control their alcohol and if they cannot control the alcohol, eventually try to control the circumstances around the drinking (hiding, lying, etc.)

--- What is alcohol to the alcoholic? It is the controller to the alcoholic. The alcoholic voice controls the alcoholic (backward/imaginary connection to alcohol) and unable to break the spell.

--- What exactly is a co-dependent? A person who tries to control the alcoholic (threats, tears, manipulation, etc.) or the situations surround the behaviors of the alcoholic (rescue/cover). Don't we (codies) all have an imaginary image of how our A's should be/act/behave?

When reading (or listening to, in my case) this book. You will “hear” the voice that the alcoholic hears, you will “hear” the co-dependent’s voice and you will “hear” the voice of, what the author calls the witness – those who are looking at the situation from outside the situation, who attempts to “break the spell” of the control (whatever form). You may also “hear” the voices of others trying to control you (boss, mother, father, yourself?), who are not necessarily the A(s) in your life, anyone unwilling/unable to allow you to be your authentic self.

Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal With People Who Try to Control You
By Patricia Evans
Amazon Appx 324 pages (paperback/Kindle)
Amazon.com: Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal With People Who Try to Control You eBook: Patricia Evans: Books
Audiobook (6 hours, 38 min.)
Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control You Audiobook | Patricia Evans | Audible.com