OT Sort of - getting over getting lost in the "rules"
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OT Sort of - getting over getting lost in the "rules"
One of my biggest ACOA issues is rule following (a strange form of people pleasing I suppose) - up until all this started, I wanted a "normal" life so I did "normal" things - I got married, I got a "practical" degree (three of them actually none of which I enjoy), and I tried to be happy doing "normal" things (working my way up the ladder, getting raises, moving to bigger houses, going to work parties, having dinner with other couples). The thing is I didn't enjoy any of the things I did - I did them to show my NPD mother I was "successful" and "normal"...and it sucked. I stayed in my marriage for years longer than I wanted to to keep up the appearance of "normal". Therapy and Step 1 helped me get out of that immediate situation and start working on myself...however there is so much more work to do and it's hard to break these maladaptive behaviors I have held onto since childhood that no longer work as an adult. And my tendency to get wrapped up in "rule following" to fit in to various "normal" situations still is popping up!
Through therapy I've started to find myself but I find myself reverting to rules. For example - regarding Alanon I would have these thoughts: Oh Alanon said I should do this - or Alanons would not approve...etc etc etc. Then I would try to do the 'rules' even though they didn't feel right and usually end up a bit annoyed by it. My therapist has told me a thousand times "who cares what they think what do YOU think?" and he's right. If I follow my gut and what I think I'm happy and it matters not what the Alanon rules are...but they still nag me in the back of my mind sometimes. I guess rule following to the extent of unhappiness/loss of self is a hard habit to break. I'm getting better but sometimes the process is SLOW....
Another example: I'm in a writing class (my true passion I've gone back to explore) and I tore apart the novel I was writing and re-wrote it according to the "rules" of story writing and others' comments in the class. Well I now hate my novel....LOL....I sort of got all melancholy about it a few days ago and a bit depressed - BUT I went back and pulled some of my old writing and an old novel I did before the class and I loved that writing - WHY? It was MY writing, not some rule based stuff....so AGAIN I had lost myself in the rules.
Rules trigger me - I get irritated and annoyed almost immediately when someone tries to rule me - "oh what about this or that suggestion or you "should" try this" or "this is how it works"....sometimes I don't talk to that person for days or weeks after. The tactic I hate most is when people try to indirectly school me - "Oh I'm recovered now but I used to be just like you. I understand and this is what I changed" (subtext: I'm recovered you're not, I'm right you're wrong, this is how you can be more like me). I know this is MY issue in that I can't control others so all I can control is my reaction and not let it get to me - but sometimes I can't help but be triggered and annoyed. Once at work someone interrupted a meeting I was leading to tell me "no coffee in the meeting room" (one of my guests had a drink) - I was intensely triggered by that and snapped at him....in front of everyone - I embarrassed him with what I said too. The room actually supported me (they thought he was acting like a controlling ass) but I hated having that trigger reaction - it's hard to explain but I didn't have time to even think the reaction just immediately happened.
The thing is I do recognize it now and I realize I need to follow MY rules based on MY gut and MY self. However sometimes it's hard!!
I also realize balance is important - so with the Alanon and writing class the key is figuring out which "rules" or "suggestions" actually work and which don't but it's hard - especially when people think they know best - only I know what's best for me.
I'm not really looking for anything here I guess - definitely not advice on which rule I should follow to solve the problem (LOL) - problems are messy and I've learned in therapy you just sort of feel them through and usually when I'm least expecting it a solution presents itself....so I suppose I was just looking to see if anyone else had similar feelings and triggers regarding rule following thing.
Through therapy I've started to find myself but I find myself reverting to rules. For example - regarding Alanon I would have these thoughts: Oh Alanon said I should do this - or Alanons would not approve...etc etc etc. Then I would try to do the 'rules' even though they didn't feel right and usually end up a bit annoyed by it. My therapist has told me a thousand times "who cares what they think what do YOU think?" and he's right. If I follow my gut and what I think I'm happy and it matters not what the Alanon rules are...but they still nag me in the back of my mind sometimes. I guess rule following to the extent of unhappiness/loss of self is a hard habit to break. I'm getting better but sometimes the process is SLOW....
Another example: I'm in a writing class (my true passion I've gone back to explore) and I tore apart the novel I was writing and re-wrote it according to the "rules" of story writing and others' comments in the class. Well I now hate my novel....LOL....I sort of got all melancholy about it a few days ago and a bit depressed - BUT I went back and pulled some of my old writing and an old novel I did before the class and I loved that writing - WHY? It was MY writing, not some rule based stuff....so AGAIN I had lost myself in the rules.
Rules trigger me - I get irritated and annoyed almost immediately when someone tries to rule me - "oh what about this or that suggestion or you "should" try this" or "this is how it works"....sometimes I don't talk to that person for days or weeks after. The tactic I hate most is when people try to indirectly school me - "Oh I'm recovered now but I used to be just like you. I understand and this is what I changed" (subtext: I'm recovered you're not, I'm right you're wrong, this is how you can be more like me). I know this is MY issue in that I can't control others so all I can control is my reaction and not let it get to me - but sometimes I can't help but be triggered and annoyed. Once at work someone interrupted a meeting I was leading to tell me "no coffee in the meeting room" (one of my guests had a drink) - I was intensely triggered by that and snapped at him....in front of everyone - I embarrassed him with what I said too. The room actually supported me (they thought he was acting like a controlling ass) but I hated having that trigger reaction - it's hard to explain but I didn't have time to even think the reaction just immediately happened.
The thing is I do recognize it now and I realize I need to follow MY rules based on MY gut and MY self. However sometimes it's hard!!
I also realize balance is important - so with the Alanon and writing class the key is figuring out which "rules" or "suggestions" actually work and which don't but it's hard - especially when people think they know best - only I know what's best for me.
I'm not really looking for anything here I guess - definitely not advice on which rule I should follow to solve the problem (LOL) - problems are messy and I've learned in therapy you just sort of feel them through and usually when I'm least expecting it a solution presents itself....so I suppose I was just looking to see if anyone else had similar feelings and triggers regarding rule following thing.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I can relate. I spent so many years, most of my life, trying to please everyone else I didn't even know what would please myself. I had to find myself, figure out who I was. I came up with my own rules. 
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Here's a great Al-Anon slogan to live by: "What anyone thinks of me is none of my business." Easier said than done, I know. Trust me, I know. I'm an ACoA and have tried for so long to be the perfect wife and mother, with the perfect home and everything. Perfect just doesn't exist. I had to learn to lower my standards. Then, when I did that, I lowered them again. You can do this, it just takes a some time.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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This resonates with me.
I've also been a people pleaser all my life and put way to much stock in what I thought others thought of me. I've been working on it, but with any change it is 2 steps forward, one back.
The thing is I do recognize it now and I realize I need to follow MY rules based on MY gut and MY self. However sometimes it's hard!!
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Aeryn -- Just want to be normal.
Good insight for the sake of my daughter.
She decided that she should not go to Alateen for a while, as "normal" kids do not, which turned out good as our younger son decided he should, and they have kind of swapped out.
Meanwhile she tells me that she "tried out" for the Normal Club at school, but did not pass the entrance test. She had a couple of answers wrong, and they would not tell her the correct answers. I am still not even sure if she is just having fun with me via strange metaphor, or some kids where really doing this.
So she put together a sort of group of all the misfits, and since she knows all the Alateen stuff, has sort of organized a misfit group at school. Sort running a 12th Step operation herself.
I know she dreams of getting away, college, and moving far, far, away. British Columbia, at this point. Seems to enjoy writing. And cartoons, especially. Way off color stuff on A on all sorts of things.
I do not think much of that is normal. But I am not going to tell her.
To "normal."
Good insight for the sake of my daughter.
She decided that she should not go to Alateen for a while, as "normal" kids do not, which turned out good as our younger son decided he should, and they have kind of swapped out.
Meanwhile she tells me that she "tried out" for the Normal Club at school, but did not pass the entrance test. She had a couple of answers wrong, and they would not tell her the correct answers. I am still not even sure if she is just having fun with me via strange metaphor, or some kids where really doing this.
So she put together a sort of group of all the misfits, and since she knows all the Alateen stuff, has sort of organized a misfit group at school. Sort running a 12th Step operation herself.
I know she dreams of getting away, college, and moving far, far, away. British Columbia, at this point. Seems to enjoy writing. And cartoons, especially. Way off color stuff on A on all sorts of things.
I do not think much of that is normal. But I am not going to tell her.
To "normal."
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Aeryn --
I want to send you a great big THANK YOU for that post.
You have no idea how much it helped me.
Excuse me if I ramble -- I don't want to hijack your post but… I can so relate to so much of it (even if it's a bit sideways)….
I think to me rules have felt safe. But they've been a bit chickening out and avoiding responsibility. Very much like (apologies in advance if I offend anyone with this comparison) my old lady friend who attends a really fundamentalist church run by a really heavy-handed, authoritarian pastor who basically tells the folks there what to eat, wear, and who to vote for… she says "It's so comforting to me to know that Pastor Andrews knows what God wants so I don't have to be concerned that I'm doing something wrong…"
I think rules are like that to me. I don't trust my own judgment, but if I follow someone else's, I can't be held responsible if what I do is wrong. It wasn't me. I was just following the rules so it's not my fault if something went wrong.
That was a tremendous insight for me, Aeryn. That I'm still doing that.
I think I just hit on my biggest fear.
My biggest fear is DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
That's my biggest fear when I (avoid) deal(ing) with the fallout and grief regarding my alcoholic marriage, too. That I did something wrong either when I married him or when I left and divorced him or -- worse -- BOTH!!!
So what if there are no rules, only choices? (I'm not questioning Ultimate Truth here, just rules for everyday life…) I mean -- what if there are no rules for whether to be married or single, get a practical career or be a circus freak, any more than there are rules for whether you should eat orange marmalade or strawberry jam on your toast? Heck, you may even choose to eat HAM on your toast AND IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THERE IS NO RULE ABOUT IT!?
I feel like an idiot for some reason, for not having realized this before and I'm an old bird. There are no rules I need to follow. I can choose to be good to people or treat them badly. I believe God would like me to be good rather than mean to people. But that pounding feeling of guilt about having Done Something Wrong Something Against The Rules…
… that is so unnecessary, isn't it?
Wow.
I want to send you a great big THANK YOU for that post.
You have no idea how much it helped me.
Excuse me if I ramble -- I don't want to hijack your post but… I can so relate to so much of it (even if it's a bit sideways)….
I think to me rules have felt safe. But they've been a bit chickening out and avoiding responsibility. Very much like (apologies in advance if I offend anyone with this comparison) my old lady friend who attends a really fundamentalist church run by a really heavy-handed, authoritarian pastor who basically tells the folks there what to eat, wear, and who to vote for… she says "It's so comforting to me to know that Pastor Andrews knows what God wants so I don't have to be concerned that I'm doing something wrong…"
I think rules are like that to me. I don't trust my own judgment, but if I follow someone else's, I can't be held responsible if what I do is wrong. It wasn't me. I was just following the rules so it's not my fault if something went wrong.
That was a tremendous insight for me, Aeryn. That I'm still doing that.
I think I just hit on my biggest fear.
My biggest fear is DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
That's my biggest fear when I (avoid) deal(ing) with the fallout and grief regarding my alcoholic marriage, too. That I did something wrong either when I married him or when I left and divorced him or -- worse -- BOTH!!!
So what if there are no rules, only choices? (I'm not questioning Ultimate Truth here, just rules for everyday life…) I mean -- what if there are no rules for whether to be married or single, get a practical career or be a circus freak, any more than there are rules for whether you should eat orange marmalade or strawberry jam on your toast? Heck, you may even choose to eat HAM on your toast AND IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THERE IS NO RULE ABOUT IT!?
I feel like an idiot for some reason, for not having realized this before and I'm an old bird. There are no rules I need to follow. I can choose to be good to people or treat them badly. I believe God would like me to be good rather than mean to people. But that pounding feeling of guilt about having Done Something Wrong Something Against The Rules…
… that is so unnecessary, isn't it?
Wow.
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I never thought of the idea that I might be following the rules because they are safe and then if they don't work out I can place the blame on the rules - GREAT insight and very helpful to me. I think my rule issues have a bit to do with that idea too. Thanks lillamy.
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Oh boy do I relate to this post.
I am grateful I got into Al-Anon later in my recovery. I said to my therapist after the first few meetings. "I am glad it took me awhile to get here..." I then proceeded to imagine how much I would have struggled with working the "perfect" rule following recovery from Al-Anon if I had found it any earlier. This for me is one of the ways I know that things work out as they should.
I am actually finding Al-Anon a safe place for me to "bend" the rules. I don't mean all of them, but I am finding that when I let myself go against the curve, and I want to say some of the platitudes occasionally thrown out in a meeting it has been a good thing for me individually, and in most cases I think for the meeting or the group.
I had the idea that if I followed the rules, then I would be a good, moral person and it would all work out for me, those I loved etc.
For me this was a part of my people pleasing. It has also kept me stuck a good deal of the time, obsessively ruminating over a perceived rule infraction and what I need to do next time, completely forgetting that in many instances I was not the one who "broke" the rule in the first place, especially in my marriage. My ex would break a rule, and I would be nuts trying to "remedy" it.
I came to that at a young age with my family of origin, especially my relationship with my brother.
Right now I am working on how the rules don't serve me any longer (and have not for a long time). I however don't have all the new behaviors in place, and I fall back into them at times of stress.
Thanks for this post.
I am grateful I got into Al-Anon later in my recovery. I said to my therapist after the first few meetings. "I am glad it took me awhile to get here..." I then proceeded to imagine how much I would have struggled with working the "perfect" rule following recovery from Al-Anon if I had found it any earlier. This for me is one of the ways I know that things work out as they should.
I am actually finding Al-Anon a safe place for me to "bend" the rules. I don't mean all of them, but I am finding that when I let myself go against the curve, and I want to say some of the platitudes occasionally thrown out in a meeting it has been a good thing for me individually, and in most cases I think for the meeting or the group.
I had the idea that if I followed the rules, then I would be a good, moral person and it would all work out for me, those I loved etc.
For me this was a part of my people pleasing. It has also kept me stuck a good deal of the time, obsessively ruminating over a perceived rule infraction and what I need to do next time, completely forgetting that in many instances I was not the one who "broke" the rule in the first place, especially in my marriage. My ex would break a rule, and I would be nuts trying to "remedy" it.
I came to that at a young age with my family of origin, especially my relationship with my brother.
Right now I am working on how the rules don't serve me any longer (and have not for a long time). I however don't have all the new behaviors in place, and I fall back into them at times of stress.
Thanks for this post.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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My new rule, which I seem to be breaking CONSTANTLY here is to not give advice until asked.
I saw some silly dating show years ago and one of the people on the date told a story, the women (I think) immediately jumped in with a similar story. I found that perfectly normal, however in the "grading" or critique of the date, the matchmaker(?) said she was COMPETING and ONE UPPING her date. Huh? My whole life I thought that was empathy or something, but I guess not. So what I won't do is give you advice. But I hope I did not one-upsmanship your post, by saying that I need rules as a starting point.
I never would have known that sharing a similar story was a form of not letting the other person speak. I guess I had to fight for attention my e tire life so felt the need to "me toooooooooo" everything.
Those pesky rules, the ones I did not even know existed, I work them as well as I can and then at some point, I am sure I go rogue.
I saw some silly dating show years ago and one of the people on the date told a story, the women (I think) immediately jumped in with a similar story. I found that perfectly normal, however in the "grading" or critique of the date, the matchmaker(?) said she was COMPETING and ONE UPPING her date. Huh? My whole life I thought that was empathy or something, but I guess not. So what I won't do is give you advice. But I hope I did not one-upsmanship your post, by saying that I need rules as a starting point.
I never would have known that sharing a similar story was a form of not letting the other person speak. I guess I had to fight for attention my e tire life so felt the need to "me toooooooooo" everything.
Those pesky rules, the ones I did not even know existed, I work them as well as I can and then at some point, I am sure I go rogue.
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I have been thinking about this post all morning.
I have also realized that a lot of my rules don't make sense. When I follow them through to the end they often contradict another hard and fast rule that I have in place. And I wonder how I make myself nuts?
Also I wanted to say how at least for me the "rules" are punitive. They don't allow for joy, fun or pleasure (without paying the piper). However the rules are somehow supposed to put me in a place that I am happy, and a good person?
Again, thanks.
I have also realized that a lot of my rules don't make sense. When I follow them through to the end they often contradict another hard and fast rule that I have in place. And I wonder how I make myself nuts?
Also I wanted to say how at least for me the "rules" are punitive. They don't allow for joy, fun or pleasure (without paying the piper). However the rules are somehow supposed to put me in a place that I am happy, and a good person?
Again, thanks.
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Well I'm happy to say I'm breaking another rule! And it's a cool one.
I have some OT saved up at work - basically I have it what we call banked and I have enough to take off 4 months. Most people wait and save it for retirement - that is the "rule" people follow and then use it to retire early. Well guess what - I'm not even sure I'm going to be at this job for retirement (I'm still young) AND why would I want to take the time off when my body is older and less able?
So I'm taking my OT this coming September-December and I will be using that time to focus on my novel and finish a first draft so I can move forward on it....I've been putting this novel off my entire life because I've been following the rules - working a practical job (2 of them at times), getting married and in general being too busy to follow my dream.
In the summer I also get to work less due to the type of work I do so I'll really be able to start focusing as early as June. Of course I write Jan-June as well but I get so tied up in work I often don't find time to write.
So another rule out the window!
I have some OT saved up at work - basically I have it what we call banked and I have enough to take off 4 months. Most people wait and save it for retirement - that is the "rule" people follow and then use it to retire early. Well guess what - I'm not even sure I'm going to be at this job for retirement (I'm still young) AND why would I want to take the time off when my body is older and less able?
So I'm taking my OT this coming September-December and I will be using that time to focus on my novel and finish a first draft so I can move forward on it....I've been putting this novel off my entire life because I've been following the rules - working a practical job (2 of them at times), getting married and in general being too busy to follow my dream.
In the summer I also get to work less due to the type of work I do so I'll really be able to start focusing as early as June. Of course I write Jan-June as well but I get so tied up in work I often don't find time to write.
So another rule out the window!
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery 
Also I wanted to say how at least for me the "rules" are punitive. They don't allow for joy, fun or pleasure (without paying the piper). However the rules are somehow supposed to put me in a place that I am happy, and a good person?
I've never really understood the advice thing of codependency....so I didn't fit in that rule either - I've always sort of been on the other end of the controlling advice from my NPD mother so maybe that's why I'm more sensitive to it....as an ACOA sometimes rule wise I feel more like the A without the alcohol than the Alanon codependent. (that realization was big for me too - it helped me shape my recovery differently)
Ohhh...just thought of another rule I'm breaking this year - no Christmas decorations! I don't have time and don't really want to so if they would cause me more work than joy why do it? The neighbors have some up so I'll enjoy those instead.
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I have not replied to this post again because I realize I am jealous of how you are choosing to use your time off.
I have a similar bank...and am planning on cashing some of it in to have some car work done.
I think it is time to rethink some things.
Rules for me have often come from a place of scarcity versus fullness and joy. It is amazing how I keep myself caught on such a regular basis.
I have a similar bank...and am planning on cashing some of it in to have some car work done.
I think it is time to rethink some things.
Rules for me have often come from a place of scarcity versus fullness and joy. It is amazing how I keep myself caught on such a regular basis.
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LR-
That's cool you are re-thinking your banked time....maybe you could do something with it just for you ( a cool trip or something). If you do definitely share here - I love hearing about stuff like that.
I will confess I'm a little scared about using my banked time (the decision has been made though - I already put in the paperwork)...the reason I was scared was the good old "what if's"...what if I get sick, what if something happens and I need it later...well I decided life is a risk and if something happens later I'll deal with that then instead of worrying about what might happen now. I think that's the scarcity thing you're talking about. Plus I will be earning more banked time when I return so it's all good.
That's cool you are re-thinking your banked time....maybe you could do something with it just for you ( a cool trip or something).
If you do definitely share here - I love hearing about stuff like that.I will confess I'm a little scared about using my banked time (the decision has been made though - I already put in the paperwork)...the reason I was scared was the good old "what if's"...what if I get sick, what if something happens and I need it later...well I decided life is a risk and if something happens later I'll deal with that then instead of worrying about what might happen now. I think that's the scarcity thing you're talking about. Plus I will be earning more banked time when I return so it's all good.
God's Kid
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Cool post. And I hear what you are saying about being a writer as I am one too and can have the whole head chatter about my writing. I've recently started having new ideas about this, those being if I am living in the will of a loving higher power (which I believe I am) I was made a certain way, with certain gifts and styles so it is good and right to follow that stuff - regardless of what the 'experts' say.
I've had a couple of short stories published and none of them follow the rules of writing. If anything they probably break them but they only reason I have gone with it is because they just sort of poured out of me, if that makes any sense.
This post is good timing for me too as I am meeting up with 2 other writers today to see if we can form a writers group. We've exchanged some work and my style is very different to theirs. Both have had a lot of education, unlike myself, and I have had experience with other writers in groups (who have had a lot of education) and for reasons I still don't understand they tend to take exception to what I write or my style which is ok. I can take what I like and leave the rest, regarding their feedback.
I sometimes thinking finding oneself is the easy part when it's compared to being oneself.
All the best and you're not alone.
I've had a couple of short stories published and none of them follow the rules of writing. If anything they probably break them but they only reason I have gone with it is because they just sort of poured out of me, if that makes any sense.
This post is good timing for me too as I am meeting up with 2 other writers today to see if we can form a writers group. We've exchanged some work and my style is very different to theirs. Both have had a lot of education, unlike myself, and I have had experience with other writers in groups (who have had a lot of education) and for reasons I still don't understand they tend to take exception to what I write or my style which is ok. I can take what I like and leave the rest, regarding their feedback.
I sometimes thinking finding oneself is the easy part when it's compared to being oneself.
All the best and you're not alone.
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For anyone that's interested, I talked about this with my therapist this week and he said this has to do with differentiation - and for ACOAs, ACONs (adult children of narcissists) or anyone who grew up in a controlling environment we tend to have low differentiation....it can also happen with normies. Basically it means we have engrained what our parents think and believe as what we think and believe and not gotten to our true selves and what we think...I'm really bad at explaining - I think wiki did well:
Murray Bowen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There is also a nice explanation of the related concept of triangulation.
I believe ACOAs and ACONs are more susceptible than others as well.
Murray Bowen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Differentiation of self
Differentiation of self is one's ability to separate one's own intellectual and emotional functioning from that of the family. Bowen spoke of people functioning on a single continuum or scale. Individuals with "low differentiation" are more likely to become fused with predominant family emotions. (A related concept is that of an undifferentiated ego mass, which is a family unit whose members possess low differentiation and therefore are emotionally fused.) Those with "low differentiation" depend on others' approval and acceptance. They either conform themselves to others in order to please them, or they attempt to force others to conform to themselves. They are thus more vulnerable to stress, defined as stressor(s) *and* psycho-physiological "stress reactivity," and theirs is a greater than average challenge to adjust/adapt to life changes and contrary beliefs.[4]
To have a well-differentiated "self" is an ideal that no one realizes perfectly because, like with Abraham Maslow's concept of "self-actualization", it's a quale, a concept or idea without literal physical or material example. Even if total self-differentiation is achieved in a given moment or context, it is, like feeling states or thoughts, temporary and ephemeral. Those with generally higher levels of "self differentiation" recognize that they need others, but they depend less on others' acceptance and approval. They do not merely adopt the attitude of those around them but acquire and maintain their principles thoughtfully. These principles, morals, and ethics help them to decide important family and social issues, and to consciously or unconsciously resist lapsing into emotional reactivity and feelings-based—-usually impulsive—-thoughts and actions. Thus, despite conflict, criticism, and even rejection, those with greater capacity to "self differentiate" can stay calm and rationally "clear-headed" enough to distinguish thinking rooted in a careful assessment of the facts from thinking clouded by emotion. What they decide and say matches what they do. When they act in the best interests of the group, they choose thoughtfully, not because they are caving in to relationship pressures. They're more objective observers, more capable of calmness under relationship and task pressures. Confident in their own thinking, they can either support another's viewpoints without becoming wishy-washy; or, they can reject another's opinions without becoming hostile with them, or passively disconnected from them. This is especially relevant to the family of origin, and as we grow and develop maturity, also with extended family members, friends, or associates.
Differentiation of self is one's ability to separate one's own intellectual and emotional functioning from that of the family. Bowen spoke of people functioning on a single continuum or scale. Individuals with "low differentiation" are more likely to become fused with predominant family emotions. (A related concept is that of an undifferentiated ego mass, which is a family unit whose members possess low differentiation and therefore are emotionally fused.) Those with "low differentiation" depend on others' approval and acceptance. They either conform themselves to others in order to please them, or they attempt to force others to conform to themselves. They are thus more vulnerable to stress, defined as stressor(s) *and* psycho-physiological "stress reactivity," and theirs is a greater than average challenge to adjust/adapt to life changes and contrary beliefs.[4]
To have a well-differentiated "self" is an ideal that no one realizes perfectly because, like with Abraham Maslow's concept of "self-actualization", it's a quale, a concept or idea without literal physical or material example. Even if total self-differentiation is achieved in a given moment or context, it is, like feeling states or thoughts, temporary and ephemeral. Those with generally higher levels of "self differentiation" recognize that they need others, but they depend less on others' acceptance and approval. They do not merely adopt the attitude of those around them but acquire and maintain their principles thoughtfully. These principles, morals, and ethics help them to decide important family and social issues, and to consciously or unconsciously resist lapsing into emotional reactivity and feelings-based—-usually impulsive—-thoughts and actions. Thus, despite conflict, criticism, and even rejection, those with greater capacity to "self differentiate" can stay calm and rationally "clear-headed" enough to distinguish thinking rooted in a careful assessment of the facts from thinking clouded by emotion. What they decide and say matches what they do. When they act in the best interests of the group, they choose thoughtfully, not because they are caving in to relationship pressures. They're more objective observers, more capable of calmness under relationship and task pressures. Confident in their own thinking, they can either support another's viewpoints without becoming wishy-washy; or, they can reject another's opinions without becoming hostile with them, or passively disconnected from them. This is especially relevant to the family of origin, and as we grow and develop maturity, also with extended family members, friends, or associates.
I believe ACOAs and ACONs are more susceptible than others as well.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I had the idea that if I followed the rules, then I would be a good, moral person and it would all work out for me, those I loved etc.
Yes.
That.
Y'all are blowing me away and I feel like I should be sending y'all a check instead of paying my therapist this week.
Exactly that. I don't know if my parents taught me that or if it's just a conclusion I drew on my own, but I have been thinking exactly like this my entire life:
if I follow the rules, then I am a good, moral person and it will all work out for me, those I love etc.
That's why dealing with the fact that I married an alcoholic, that he abused our children behind my back, that my life turned into a nightmare where I had to live in hiding, etc., that's why all that cr*p was more than just cr*p to me: It was evidence that I had somehow failed. I must have broken the rules somehow. Because if I had followed the rules, none of that should have happened.
I know I sound like a three-year-old but seriously, this is the way I have functioned my entire life and realizing that is pretty relieving.
I did think that people who had trouble in their life had broken the rules somehow. Not that I looked down on people who were in trouble; it was more like "oh that's too bad. It would have been easier for them if they had followed the rules" (and of course all subconscious).
And I can also relate to your last quote there, Aeryn. When I was remarrying, I had such anxiety attacks about telling my parents that I wasn't able to talk to them. My husband-to-be had to take the phone from me and explain to them because I was hyperventilating. I was so concerned about what they would think. At 50 years of age. Hilarious and sad, isn't it?
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I've been following this thread and I have to say that it resonates very deeply with me. Thank you to everyone for sharing.
I wanted to add, sort of in the same vein as what Lillamy posted, that for me, it was (still is sometimes) much to do with perfectionism. I realized early on that I am a perfectionist, and I always thought it was a good thing. You know, the harder you strive to be perfect, the closer you actually get, right? It was only lately that I accepted the downside to my perfectionism. Striving to be perfect means that you always fail. If perfect is what I'm shooting for, then I'm doomed to be unhappy and disappointed in myself forever. What a terrible thing to do to yourself, huh? And yet I've been doing it to myself all my life.
What a relief it is when I accept myself without reservation, flaws and all. And when I can do that, consistently, day in and day out, I think I will be mostly healed.
L
I wanted to add, sort of in the same vein as what Lillamy posted, that for me, it was (still is sometimes) much to do with perfectionism. I realized early on that I am a perfectionist, and I always thought it was a good thing. You know, the harder you strive to be perfect, the closer you actually get, right? It was only lately that I accepted the downside to my perfectionism. Striving to be perfect means that you always fail. If perfect is what I'm shooting for, then I'm doomed to be unhappy and disappointed in myself forever. What a terrible thing to do to yourself, huh? And yet I've been doing it to myself all my life.
What a relief it is when I accept myself without reservation, flaws and all. And when I can do that, consistently, day in and day out, I think I will be mostly healed.
L
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 431
I just want to thank everyone who participated and is participating in this thread. In all my time at SR (which is actually before my shown join date) this is the one thread that has been most helpful to me - I especially like the personal sharing rather than advice - it's great! It makes me feel good because a lot of times I feel I don't fit in here for various reasons and this thread made me feel I do at least some times.
And maybe just maybe it's ok I feel different and out of place here sometimes - so what right? It's ok if that's me.
And maybe just maybe it's ok I feel different and out of place here sometimes - so what right? It's ok if that's me.
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