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Pastoral Counseling: Wow....

Old 12-04-2013, 05:07 PM
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Pastoral Counseling: Wow....

So, I agreed to 'try' pastoral counseling with AH. I think he thought that the pastor would agree with him about the detrimental effects of a separation and then back him up with scripture to tell me how wrong I am to want to separate? But, honestly, I don't know his motive so I shouldn't guess.

It did not go well. The pastor told Ah that he's not putting God first and that needs to happen before we can get anywhere. Ah had his typical loud voice and condescension going so that really got things going. He asked, "Why should I be the one to move out? She should move out, but honey, with what money? We can always put the kid in school(I homeschool our 15 year old)." The pastor was on my side and said that it would be best if our son stays in the home with me. Well, that just sent AH's hair flying.

I have to admit that I was not at my best, but I was better and more controlled than I ever was before, like last year when we tried 2 marriage counselors and failed.

We did not reschedule. So, at this point, I think I may have to move out anyway. don't see him going anywhere.

I pulled out one Bible verse in our 90 minute session and he then accused me of 'cherry picking Bible verses that fit my need.'

So, now it's time to take a look at my ugly side, too. I got defensive, I probably brought up the past too much even though I was trying to establish a history of repeated behaviors, I had a few moments of self righteousness that were uncalled for, and I know I rolled my eyes at least twice. Honestly, i was working very hard to keep an eye on my own behaviors and attitudes. Constantly self correcting myself when I had the chance. I feel that I've grown so much.

One thing that AH brought up was that I have gone my own way and neglected the marriage and he accuses me of having a secret lover in Al Anon(whom I'm still wondering when I'll meet this person,LOL), he went off about my private conversations that I have with Al Anon folks, and how Al Anon has changed me. Quite frankly, I was happy to hear all of that. It proves to me that I am changing and I am growing and I also know that he sees it. I told him the ball is in his court and that I still want to separate. If he doesn't make a move on this request in the next few weeks then I will look for my own place in January. I just want to get through the holidays. Go ahead and send me some positive ju ju, I could use it these next few weeks!
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:46 PM
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After 2 different marriage therapists and now a pastor when are you going to end it? I'm not sure if you still expect your husband to change? He doesn't even admit to being a alcoholic despite drunk driving charges.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:47 PM
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I guess he never went on that mission trip to Haiti?
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by choublak View Post
I guess he never went on that mission trip to Haiti?
LOL, he did. He came home a new man and in the same conversation he said that our son was going to turn out gay because his mother was his primary role model, or that our son will marry a frigid Christian woman. It was NOT a good conversation.


Oh, and he did finally admit to being an alcoholic, but also told us that he was still drinking, even though he doesn't drink every day and only drinks when he travels. So, yeah, I'm done as far as things stand now. I will be contacting my lawyer again tomorrow to clarify a few points with her and I will most likely file in January. I very specifically told him that the ball is in his court. He knows where I stand and the pastor knew it too.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:11 PM
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"Gay" seems to be his favorite word...
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:30 PM
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Liz, I would definitely contact your lawyer. I would not be surprised one bit if he started moving money around in order to hide assets from you, especially with his narcissistic tendencies. I'm sure ShootingStar1 will be along shortly to offer advice, she experienced divorcing a narcissist firsthand, and will probably have some good tips for you.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:01 PM
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Lizatola,
I have a H who has the tendencies of an alcoholic without having ever picked up the bottle. I am trying to work on leaving him and intend to get out of here in the New Year. Your story sounded similar to mine in some respects.
I'm sorry that you're dealing with all of this but I hope that both of us will be on the other side sooner than later.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
So, yeah, I'm done as far as things stand now. I will be contacting my lawyer again tomorrow to clarify a few points with her and I will most likely file in January. I very specifically told him that the ball is in his court. He knows where I stand and the pastor knew it too.
I am doing a happy dance for you Liz.

You are a beautiful, smart, hard working woman and you deserve much, much more than the crumbs thrown your way.

As for the ball being in his court, I reckon' you can take that ball back - the Umpire would definitely say that it is within the rules for you to do so.

What's he going to do with the ball except to say "IT"S MINE!" and run around like the narcissist he is showing everyone his ball?:

"LOOK AT MY AWESOME BALL!" and then, of course, lose the ball and lie about how and where he lost it.

His ball will end up deflated, bedraggled, wet, lost and lonely but hey, he'll have an AWESOME story about where the ball actually is and how it came to be in that place.

Oh, and it will all be your fault, even though he had the ball in his court...you will have MADE HIM lose his ball! You saucy minx! You devil in disguise! You with your secret women's evil powers.

If you don't grab the ball, he will most likely take it, play with his balls and dick you around a little more.

Freedom is just around the corner. Peace is just around the corner.

Look toward to freedom and peace. Santa won't bring it, only you can, keep working toward it Liz.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:04 AM
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I am replying without reading the responses.

You are working hard to sort, adjust, and be a good person through all of this. He sounds like someone who plainly ain't gonna budge no matter what counsel you seek with him.

It will probably get easier once you get more clear in your heart that it is right for you to move on. Not sure what is holding you back, but I am sure you will get through this transition and find yourself in a much better place.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:51 AM
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Lulu, you crack me up. You'd love this comment he used to make about women and men's balls then: He claimed that most of his friend's wives walked around with their husband's balls in their purses and that he wasn't going to let me do that. LOL, oh brother!

So, now he's singing a new tune....AGAIN. Apparently he called his old buddy from high school, who was in AA for years and whom AH went to Haiti with last month. He told me he's looking into Celebrate Recovery. Yet, just yesterday he told us, "I still drink and I'm not going to commit to NOT drinking."

At this point, I see it as his last ditch effort to keep his comfort zone intact. He was very angry when he was talking about the fact that I should be the one to move out and I'm guessing it's because it threatens his comfortable lifestyle.

If we split up, it means he'll have to participate more in our son's schedule and drive him to and from the other side of town to home(usually 40 minutes one way about 3 nights a week), he'd have to clean and cook for himself, he'd have to take care of his own bills, and he'd have to NOT assume that I was available for everything relating to parenting. Basically, he'd have to step up especially if I have to get a job. Oh, and he'd have to do the yard work and take care of the pool(things I do already and have done for years).

So, I see this as his way of trying to maintain status quo, a desperate attempt to save face and save our marriage. He's been VERY nice and humble since yesterday's meeting. I've already sent the email to the lawyer. Maybe his attempt will work but I'm just not feeling it or seeing it anymore. I'm too tired to care and I'm ready to move on. Working on taking it one day at a time!
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:57 AM
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((Hugs)) my dear, wonderful friend. Stay strong, stay on your path. I know you have been frustrated by what you feel is slow progress on your part, but from where I sit you are doing GREAT! Much love, prayers and positive juju to you!
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lulu39 View Post
What's he going to do with the ball except to say "IT"S MINE!" and run around like the narcissist he is showing everyone his ball?:

"LOOK AT MY AWESOME BALL!" and then, of course, lose the ball and lie about how and where he lost it.
Oh Lulu, I think I love you - I laughed SO HARD at your entire post.


Lizatola - you are SO dead-on about this,

Quite frankly, I was happy to hear all of that. It proves to me that I am changing and I am growing and I also know that he sees it.
and this,

At this point, I see it as his last ditch effort to keep his comfort zone intact.

So, I see this as his way of trying to maintain status quo, a desperate attempt to save face and save our marriage.
Whatever efforts he is making toward "reconciliation" are still utterly self-motivated and driven by a need to protect his disease(s) and his status quo.... none of it sounds a bit remorseful, accepting of any responsibility or showing a desire to TRULY change.

Stay strong Lady, you have come SO FAR!!!
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:13 PM
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Whatever efforts he is making toward "reconciliation" are still utterly self-motivated and driven by a need to protect his disease(s) and his status quo.... none of it sounds a bit remorseful, accepting of any responsibility or showing a desire to TRULY change.
Yes, exactly. In hindsight, a lot of these excuses by my STBXAH were about trying to keep his status quo and his enabler handy. When I did finally let go, he found new enablers very quickly.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:20 PM
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Sending great Ju Ju your way!
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:35 PM
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I probably brought up the past too much even though I was trying to establish a history of repeated behaviors
You know what they say about past repeated behaviors? They're the best predictor of future behaviors.

So yeah, you get a gold star for keeping an eye on your behavior and not getting out of control but don't judge yourself too harshly, my friend. Establishing a pattern of bad behavior is crucial if a counselor is going to see what you're seeing.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:59 PM
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I wish you and your son the best in your new life out of crazy-land!
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by lillamy View Post
You know what they say about past repeated behaviors? They're the best predictor of future behaviors.

So yeah, you get a gold star for keeping an eye on your behavior and not getting out of control but don't judge yourself too harshly, my friend. Establishing a pattern of bad behavior is crucial if a counselor is going to see what you're seeing.
Thank you for pointing this out. I am so ready to jump all over myself every time I make an error in judgement or I speak too harshly or I am critical, etc. We're not going back anyway, so I don't think I have to worry about that. AH said he may go back on his own, especially when the pastor told him that he doesn't put God first and that he was being selfish. Maybe AH is actually open to learning more about who he is than? Or, maybe he's just scared out of his mind to lose his comfort zone and his family? Without us, he has nobody except a few acquaintances.

Sometimes I feel sorry for him. And, then sometimes I am just plain numb and don't care anyway.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:10 AM
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Maybe AH is actually open to learning more about who he is than? Or, maybe he's just scared out of his mind to lose his comfort zone and his family?
I wouldn't speculate as to what's happening in his headbone. The only mind you can probe with any certainty is your own, and it's a vast landscape. Explore it instead. <3
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Florence View Post
I wouldn't speculate as to what's happening in his headbone. The only mind you can probe with any certainty is your own, and it's a vast landscape. Explore it instead. <3
LOL, oh how true that was. I have been trying to meditate for 5 minutes. JUST FIVE, in the AM and I find my mind going a million different directions and I have to constantly refocus myself to just quiet my mind and be still. I swear I can go through my grocery list, have a fake conversation with someone whom I haven't seen in 10 years, go through my son's school schedule and lesson plans, organize the house cleaning, arrange what I'm going to do with my evening hours, what I'm going to make for dinner, ruminate on whether I want to get up and exercise now or later, etc all within a 2 minute time span! And, then I wake up and make a cup of tea and procrastinate all of it, LOL!
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:30 AM
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LIZ....do you have ADHD.......LOL.

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