Moderate Drinking
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Moderate Drinking
Ok, I get that alcoholism is a progressive disease. Where I keep getting tripped up is the alcoholic that figures out how to drink moderately for years. Does that make him not really an alcoholic?
FWIW, I'm referring to my father. He started drinking at age 12 (thanks to my grandfather.) Throughout his early adulthood, all of my childhood, and most of my adulthood, he drank beer daily. Like 1-3 cases/beer per week for 50+ years. He was a functional alcoholic - successful business, etc. He would quit for a few weeks each year but always started back up. For the last 15 yrs, he tried unsuccessfully to moderate. Approximately 5 yrs ago, he finally took it to God and admitted his powerlessness over alcohol (basically the 1st 3 steps of AA without AA.) Since then, he literally has not had more than 2 drinks/day ever BUT he does have 2 drinks almost every day. Dad is in his 70s if that matters.
He was diagnosed with alcoholism years ago by his family physician. He identifies as an alcoholic but his drinking falls right at the border of moderate drinking. Is he an alcoholic? Or is he just a problem drinker? Does it matter?
And, yes, this is part of what trips me up so much with my husband since they have similar patterns of drinking.
FWIW, I'm referring to my father. He started drinking at age 12 (thanks to my grandfather.) Throughout his early adulthood, all of my childhood, and most of my adulthood, he drank beer daily. Like 1-3 cases/beer per week for 50+ years. He was a functional alcoholic - successful business, etc. He would quit for a few weeks each year but always started back up. For the last 15 yrs, he tried unsuccessfully to moderate. Approximately 5 yrs ago, he finally took it to God and admitted his powerlessness over alcohol (basically the 1st 3 steps of AA without AA.) Since then, he literally has not had more than 2 drinks/day ever BUT he does have 2 drinks almost every day. Dad is in his 70s if that matters.
He was diagnosed with alcoholism years ago by his family physician. He identifies as an alcoholic but his drinking falls right at the border of moderate drinking. Is he an alcoholic? Or is he just a problem drinker? Does it matter?
And, yes, this is part of what trips me up so much with my husband since they have similar patterns of drinking.
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[QUOTE=JustAGirl1971;4302680]Ok, I get that alcoholism is a progressive disease. Where I keep getting tripped up is the alcoholic that figures out how to drink moderately for years. Does that make him not really an alcoholic?
FWIW, I'm referring to my father. He started drinking at age 12 (thanks to my grandfather.) Throughout his early adulthood, all of my childhood, and most of my adulthood, he drank beer daily. Like 1-3 cases/beer per week for 50+ years. He was a functional alcoholic - successful business, etc. He would quit for a few weeks each year but always started back up. For the last 15 yrs, he tried unsuccessfully to moderate. Approximately 5 yrs ago, he finally took it to God and admitted his powerlessness over alcohol (basically the 1st 3 steps of AA without AA.) Since then, he literally has not had more than 2 drinks/day ever BUT he does have 2 drinks almost every day. Dad is in his 70s if that matters.
He was diagnosed with alcoholism years ago by his family physician. He identifies as an alcoholic but his drinking falls right at the border of moderate drinking. Is he an alcoholic? Or is he just a problem drinker? Does it matter?
And, yes, this is part of what trips me up so much with my husband since they have similar patterns of drinking.[/QUOTE
I see it as a very fine line.
AA endeavours to distinguish between normal drinking and alcoholism rather, inadequately in my opinion.
In the Big Book reference is made to the man who drinks rather heavily, keeps out of trouble, holds down a job, and is no raging alkie. It is claimed he may die a few years earlier, but this does not seem of all that concern.
I drank to extreme for round 30 years, did de tox, along with AA almost 20 years ago, only to become a 'moderate drinker;' albeit one who walked a mine field... counting drinks, timing myself, keeping note books etc.........all while quite miserable and in no way functioning well at all.
Now seriously back with AA, almost a year and doing quite well.
Alcoholism can be far trickier than just being regularly intoxicated.
FWIW, I'm referring to my father. He started drinking at age 12 (thanks to my grandfather.) Throughout his early adulthood, all of my childhood, and most of my adulthood, he drank beer daily. Like 1-3 cases/beer per week for 50+ years. He was a functional alcoholic - successful business, etc. He would quit for a few weeks each year but always started back up. For the last 15 yrs, he tried unsuccessfully to moderate. Approximately 5 yrs ago, he finally took it to God and admitted his powerlessness over alcohol (basically the 1st 3 steps of AA without AA.) Since then, he literally has not had more than 2 drinks/day ever BUT he does have 2 drinks almost every day. Dad is in his 70s if that matters.
He was diagnosed with alcoholism years ago by his family physician. He identifies as an alcoholic but his drinking falls right at the border of moderate drinking. Is he an alcoholic? Or is he just a problem drinker? Does it matter?
And, yes, this is part of what trips me up so much with my husband since they have similar patterns of drinking.[/QUOTE
I see it as a very fine line.
AA endeavours to distinguish between normal drinking and alcoholism rather, inadequately in my opinion.
In the Big Book reference is made to the man who drinks rather heavily, keeps out of trouble, holds down a job, and is no raging alkie. It is claimed he may die a few years earlier, but this does not seem of all that concern.
I drank to extreme for round 30 years, did de tox, along with AA almost 20 years ago, only to become a 'moderate drinker;' albeit one who walked a mine field... counting drinks, timing myself, keeping note books etc.........all while quite miserable and in no way functioning well at all.
Now seriously back with AA, almost a year and doing quite well.
Alcoholism can be far trickier than just being regularly intoxicated.
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tough call. The guidelines put forth jointly by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (2) define moderate drinking as no more than one drink a day for most women, and no more than two drinks a day for most men. A standard drink is generally considered to be 12 ounces of beer, 5 ounces of wine, or 1.5 ounces of 80-proof distilled spirits. Each of these drinks contains roughly the same amount of absolute alcohol--approximately 0.5 ounce or 12 grams (3).
so technically he falls within the category of a moderate drinker. another definition of a moderate drinker is: Moderate drinking may be defined as drinking that does not generally cause problems, either for the drinker or for society
he's been drinking a LONG time. he's in his 70's, still drinking almost daily. at least that could be considered maintenance drinking. has his health been compromised? his quality of life?
the REAL question, when it comes to your husband is:
does his drinking bother YOU? cuz then it's a problem.
so technically he falls within the category of a moderate drinker. another definition of a moderate drinker is: Moderate drinking may be defined as drinking that does not generally cause problems, either for the drinker or for society
he's been drinking a LONG time. he's in his 70's, still drinking almost daily. at least that could be considered maintenance drinking. has his health been compromised? his quality of life?
the REAL question, when it comes to your husband is:
does his drinking bother YOU? cuz then it's a problem.
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Thank you, Bubovski. My father did have some issues - multiple major auto accidents (before they cracked down on DUIs), dysfunctional marriage, anger issues, one attempted suicide 10 yrs or so ago, drinking on the job (easier to do when you're the boss), etc. He thinks the 6 or so weeks that he didn't drink per year were what saved him from spiraling downhill.
Maybe I'm still in denial with my husband. Or, maybe he is like my father and will be able to moderate, idk. I guess it doesn't really matter since our home life is not functional and does not work for me and our kids.
Good luck in your sobriety and thank you for responding.
Maybe I'm still in denial with my husband. Or, maybe he is like my father and will be able to moderate, idk. I guess it doesn't really matter since our home life is not functional and does not work for me and our kids.
Good luck in your sobriety and thank you for responding.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
he's been drinking a LONG time. he's in his 70's, still drinking almost daily. at least that could be considered maintenance drinking. has his health been compromised? his quality of life?
the REAL question, when it comes to your husband is:
does his drinking bother YOU? cuz then it's a problem.
the REAL question, when it comes to your husband is:
does his drinking bother YOU? cuz then it's a problem.
With my husband, yes, it's a problem. He's had elevated liver enzymes for 10+ yrs but continues to drink. One child has moved out of our house (15 yr old), another monitors her father's drinking (14 yr old.) He's slacking in all areas... low paying, dead-end job that's beneath him, quit school less than a year before graduation, isn't paying the bills timely even when the money is in the account (& lies about it), and is doing the bare minimum at home. Plus, I'm fairly certain he's drinking again and is just hiding from me based on a few comments that he's made, some withdrawals from the bank, & his new habit of chewing gum or breath mints constantly.
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From what I have read and "heard" - if drinking makes your life unmanageable in any way or has repeatedly caused you regret or remorse because of it, you have a problem (I'm not quoting) But I don't know... I can see how you would feel tripped up. For what it's worth, I would almost rather have your father's patterns than my RA's. I'd rather my RA have 2 drinks every single night and be a normal person than what I'm going through right now.
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One child has moved out of our house (15 yr old), another monitors her father's drinking (14 yr old.)
I would gently like to suggest that maybe your father's ability to maintain a heavy drinking schedule and lead a responsible life may have given you false hope that your husband may do the same thing. But he's not. You know that. You're losing your children.
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No easy answers. MY AH drank 2 bottles of wine a day back in 1990 when we got married but was a high functioning alcoholic for years....it was only when he retired around 2006/7 when it became a problem. I feel his body couldn't deal with it any longer. Maybe that happened with your father? Did his health problems give him the incentive to cut down. I don't think most alcoholics can cut down - I know my AH was very good when he came out of hospital but it gradually started going back up again. I feel most alcholics need to stop! But I am not expert and I accept that if they can stop for a while then MAYBE they can introduce alcohol back into their lives but it depends on the extent of their addiction.
I do feel it is a progressive disease and I wished I had realised this back in 1990 - we didn't have the internet then and there was much less media about it.
Good luck - I think your dad is rare in the fact that he can moderate the drinking to this extent.
I do feel it is a progressive disease and I wished I had realised this back in 1990 - we didn't have the internet then and there was much less media about it.
Good luck - I think your dad is rare in the fact that he can moderate the drinking to this extent.
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IMO and Idk if i am close to right BUT He drinks everyday to me it wouldn't matter how many he drank a day. it's that he drinks everyday. Maybe he just can't drink as much in his later years? maybe he doesn't need to drink as much? maybe he gets drunk on 2? js
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Also it is a progressive disease and i have heard that those with fatty livers and those who drink for a long time will actually need to drink less to get drunk. js. I wouldn't take it as he is a moderate drinker....just an alcoholic who's body aged.
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Yes I have heard too that an older person is more likely to suffer from intoxication even toxicity a- combination of factors - older people are more likely on medication, and maybe the alcohol reacts? I suppose the liver disposes of alcohol/ toxins so if it is damaged then this would partially explain? No expert here so may well be wrong but just what I have read and picked up on doing my research in alcohol abuse/toxicity in the elderly!
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Thanks, all. I have considered that it's part of the aging process that's enabled Dad to drink less. He is consistent that he almost never misses a day which probably still speaks to addiction. I mean, yes, I like my caffeine but if I miss a couple days or even a week, no big deal.
And, lillamy, I think it's more of trying to make sense/understand with my husband than look for false hope. The truth is, sober, drinking, or drunk, our relationship has hit its expiration date. It's a matter of figuring out how to financially do it on my own because I have no delusions - I will not receive child support or any other type of financial support from my husband. I think I can do it but I need to get my plan in place. I've started working on it. The hard part is that I want ds home now, he wants to be home now, but he won't come home with his dad here. There's no way financially for AH to move out now. I don't really see how that can happen in less than 2-3 months and it's killing me because I just want ds home now
And, lillamy, I think it's more of trying to make sense/understand with my husband than look for false hope. The truth is, sober, drinking, or drunk, our relationship has hit its expiration date. It's a matter of figuring out how to financially do it on my own because I have no delusions - I will not receive child support or any other type of financial support from my husband. I think I can do it but I need to get my plan in place. I've started working on it. The hard part is that I want ds home now, he wants to be home now, but he won't come home with his dad here. There's no way financially for AH to move out now. I don't really see how that can happen in less than 2-3 months and it's killing me because I just want ds home now
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Originally Posted by JustAGirl1971
And, lillamy, I think it's more of trying to make sense/understand with my husband than look for false hope. The truth is, sober, drinking, or drunk, our relationship has hit its expiration date. It's a matter of figuring out how to financially do it on my own because I have no delusions - I will not receive child support or any other type of financial support from my husband. I think I can do it but I need to get my plan in place. I've started working on it. The hard part is that I want ds home now, he wants to be home now, but he won't come home with his dad here. There's no way financially for AH to move out now. I don't really see how that can happen in less than 2-3 months and it's killing me because I just want ds home now
Right now it reads that you are choosing your AH over your son.
I hope I am wrong.
Your AH is a grown man, with resources. If he is drinking, he has access to money. He has friends, acquaintances etc... and can surely find somewhere to stay.
Your have CHILD who doesn't feel safe at home bc of your AH. The child's desire to be home needs to come first and if that means asking your AH to leave, it seems to me that that's what a mom who wants her son home needs to do.
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It's not just that my husband has nowhere to go, it's also that if he leaves now, I will not be able to make the house payment this month or next without putting it on a credit card which I will then not be able to pay off. He was unemployed for several years. All of our savings is gone. We have my 401k and that's it & our plan does not allow hardship withdrawals, only loans. I need to find a second job & save up some cash.
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Originally Posted by JustAGirl1971
Maybe I'm still in denial with my husband. Or, maybe he is like my father and will be able to moderate, idk. I guess it doesn't really matter since our home life is not functional and does not work for me and our kids.
Spinning in circles about if he can moderate, if he's really an alcoholic, etc is engaging in wishful thinking, denying reality, bargaining with the future. That is what it was when I did it. When it came down to it I was wagering. I was trying to place a bet and increase my odds with pretend information. A fantastic bit of mental gymnastics that led me deeper into confusion with each passing year. I would gathering various bits of random evidence that was unrelated to my real husband and my real present world, and then traded my sanity and happiness for the fantasy of the future I wanted.
Base your decisions on what is *real*. What you know today about your life.
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Originally Posted by Thumper
Base your decisions on what is *real*. What you know today about your life.
I really think I can do it on my own with a little finessing (dropping cable, refinancing house to a 30 yr, living on a strict budget, etc.) It's just going to take a few tough months to get to a point where I can pay everything without his help. He pays the housepayment now. I pay everything else.
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Originally Posted by Quish16
None of us should judge you. Wishing you all the very best. You are in a horrible situation - you need our support and love
Helena x
Helena x
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I called my mortgage company and got an ok to delay payment bc of economic hardship. It wasn't hard to do. And your H legally HAS to pay child support.
I understand all to well your fear and the very real issue of finances. I really do. I kept thinking I could find a way to leave or have my xAH leave AND keep things as they were financially. Ultimately I had to choose which mattered more... Material things and maintaining savings or health and safety for me and my kids. And it was a multi year process to get to the leaving point so there's no judgement.
I've now maxed out credit cards, used all savings I had and don't know month to month how I'll make ends meet. But my kids are safe and healthier than they were living w an addict so the rest is insignificant.
I understand all to well your fear and the very real issue of finances. I really do. I kept thinking I could find a way to leave or have my xAH leave AND keep things as they were financially. Ultimately I had to choose which mattered more... Material things and maintaining savings or health and safety for me and my kids. And it was a multi year process to get to the leaving point so there's no judgement.
I've now maxed out credit cards, used all savings I had and don't know month to month how I'll make ends meet. But my kids are safe and healthier than they were living w an addict so the rest is insignificant.
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