How do you tell when they're quacking?
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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How do you tell when they're quacking?
Are there any red flags, rules of thumb, etc, that help you tell the difference? I'm not talking about big things like whether they're drinking when they say they're sober. Just the little, day to day things. Or, does it even matter?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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do words and actions match? as in, i'll be home by 5pm? i have to get up early to take a special test? bills paid on time? where they say they will be when they say? no funny sounding excuses?
how do YOU feel inside? what does your gut tell you?
how do YOU feel inside? what does your gut tell you?
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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That's the thing. I'm so confused 
I can tell when he says things that contradict something he said earlier. Example - a utility was shut off. I called him, he said he'd paid the bill a week before so it must be an issue on their end... then when it was obvious they cut it off because he didn't pay, he said it's because they no longer allow a grace period and he paid that day so the utility would be reinstated. Obviously, he lied when he said he paid it the week before.
It's the subtle things. Like the reasons he won't go to church anymore or won't spend time with certain family members. He quit drinking several weeks ago... and the times I'm specifically talking about, I really think he's sober. He sounds sober. He sounds logical... but it feels like circular logic. I feel like I know the truth... then I talk to him and he sounds so logical that I'm second guessing myself It doesn't help that I'm finally really recognizing my own crazy codependent behavior. I mean, yes, that's a good thing, but then I find myself questioning whether what I thought I knew is really what I knew if that makes sense. I'm just so confused
I can tell when he says things that contradict something he said earlier. Example - a utility was shut off. I called him, he said he'd paid the bill a week before so it must be an issue on their end... then when it was obvious they cut it off because he didn't pay, he said it's because they no longer allow a grace period and he paid that day so the utility would be reinstated. Obviously, he lied when he said he paid it the week before. It's the subtle things. Like the reasons he won't go to church anymore or won't spend time with certain family members. He quit drinking several weeks ago... and the times I'm specifically talking about, I really think he's sober. He sounds sober. He sounds logical... but it feels like circular logic. I feel like I know the truth... then I talk to him and he sounds so logical that I'm second guessing myself
It doesn't help that I'm finally really recognizing my own crazy codependent behavior. I mean, yes, that's a good thing, but then I find myself questioning whether what I thought I knew is really what I knew if that makes sense. I'm just so confused Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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For me it is more when he tries to direct HIS bad behavior back on me or anyone else (blame game). Quack..Quack. Or comes up with excuses I know are total BS. Quack Quack. Or had a meeting or some committment that I KNOW BETTER..Quack Quack. Wow..he does alot of quacking. I don't even care. What I do care about is my reaction to it. It usto make me livid. Then we would fight. Neither one of us listened to the other because we were so busy thinking about what our next comback would be.
Now...I have disengaged. Does it make me mad? Sure. It makes me more sad than mad though. I barely even listen to it or register with it anymore.
Once you identify it you will recognize it quite quickly.
Now...I have disengaged. Does it make me mad? Sure. It makes me more sad than mad though. I barely even listen to it or register with it anymore.
Once you identify it you will recognize it quite quickly.
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Thanks, hopeful. Maybe the real issue isn't that I can't tell when he's quacking, deflecting, or using circular logic. Maybe the real issue is that I want to believe him so I choose to ignore what I know to be the truth. Which is crazy Probably goes back to the fact that I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around him being an alcoholic.
Just this weekend, I was working through the section in Codependent No More where you write down the things you like & don't like about yourself. While doing so, I was trying to trace back where certain of my behaviors stemmed from. He asked me what I was doing - I was honest. No where in my answer did I mention alcohol/alcoholism/or addiction, or even my parents or family. I was looking at me. He told me I was too focused on alcohol and if I look at the real root of my issues with my father, I would see that it's workaholism, not alcoholism that was the problem
I reminded him that both are forms of addiction. Then, he told me that his father's alcoholism had no effect on him... He didn't mind him drinking while they played, he just didn't like it when he left him home alone? I didn't bother arguing with him, just went back to what I was doing.
I guess I answered my own question, didn't I?
Probably goes back to the fact that I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around him being an alcoholic. Just this weekend, I was working through the section in Codependent No More where you write down the things you like & don't like about yourself. While doing so, I was trying to trace back where certain of my behaviors stemmed from. He asked me what I was doing - I was honest. No where in my answer did I mention alcohol/alcoholism/or addiction, or even my parents or family. I was looking at me. He told me I was too focused on alcohol and if I look at the real root of my issues with my father, I would see that it's workaholism, not alcoholism that was the problem
I reminded him that both are forms of addiction. Then, he told me that his father's alcoholism had no effect on him... He didn't mind him drinking while they played, he just didn't like it when he left him home alone? I didn't bother arguing with him, just went back to what I was doing. I guess I answered my own question, didn't I?
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jacrazz...That made me laugh too!
JustAGirl...Yes...that was him quacking. Most addicts hate to see the codependents they are with do anything that will wake us up...make us have expectations. Even when it's not from them...we start having expectations out of life and out of ourselves. It's not a pleasant thing when in reality they want us to continue to enable. So then it becomes the blame game...what else and who else in the world can they blame for all the negativity that in reality they KNOW DEEP DOWN is a result their addiction? See how that worked...he tried to flip the blame over to YOU instead of HIM.
My AH is famous for this and gets so wrapped up in blame that he cannot even see that I DON'T CARE AT THIS POINT WHO'SE FAULT IT IS. I am only interested in pursuing a positive outcome for what I am in control of. He hates this, I can tell. I don't rub it in, I just do not engage him anymore in blame games or demand apologies or any of the codie behavior I usto engage in. I think it alarms him quite frankly b/c he can see me detatching. The blame game does not work on me anymore and I won't listen to it even for a second. I usto cry and scream over it. Now I just say "Nope, not interested" and walk away. It's hard to stand there and fight with yourself (although he has done that before lol).
I think my point in all of this is that it does not matter if it's quacking, talking in circles, any of it. It's all a bunch of BS that you don't have to listen to. Keep working on YOU.
Hugs!
JustAGirl...Yes...that was him quacking. Most addicts hate to see the codependents they are with do anything that will wake us up...make us have expectations. Even when it's not from them...we start having expectations out of life and out of ourselves. It's not a pleasant thing when in reality they want us to continue to enable. So then it becomes the blame game...what else and who else in the world can they blame for all the negativity that in reality they KNOW DEEP DOWN is a result their addiction? See how that worked...he tried to flip the blame over to YOU instead of HIM.
My AH is famous for this and gets so wrapped up in blame that he cannot even see that I DON'T CARE AT THIS POINT WHO'SE FAULT IT IS. I am only interested in pursuing a positive outcome for what I am in control of. He hates this, I can tell. I don't rub it in, I just do not engage him anymore in blame games or demand apologies or any of the codie behavior I usto engage in. I think it alarms him quite frankly b/c he can see me detatching. The blame game does not work on me anymore and I won't listen to it even for a second. I usto cry and scream over it. Now I just say "Nope, not interested" and walk away. It's hard to stand there and fight with yourself (although he has done that before lol).
I think my point in all of this is that it does not matter if it's quacking, talking in circles, any of it. It's all a bunch of BS that you don't have to listen to. Keep working on YOU.
Hugs!
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 478
I don't mean to cross threads here, but all of this detaching business. (Which I've gotten better at) leaves me going. Why in the heck to I want to stay here for this?
Quite frankly I've taken to looking at it all as quacking, that way if he was by chance telling the truth I can be pleasantly surprised instead of let down by thinking it was the truth and having it be another quack.
Quite frankly I've taken to looking at it all as quacking, that way if he was by chance telling the truth I can be pleasantly surprised instead of let down by thinking it was the truth and having it be another quack.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 524
Maybe he just didn't want you to know that he paid the utility bill on the shut off date because he has failed you so many times before. Maybe he's not ready to face God in God's house, and maybe these family members trigger something for him. I lied to my mom just this morning and told her that I got the oil changed in the car they gave me -but I haven't done it yet. I will, definitely this week, it's not grossly overdue at all -but I didn't feel like "hearing it" so I lied.
My RA has been sober for a little over 30 days. on his first or second day home from rehab, I took issue with something and my husband "panicked and spewed" a bit of ugly, then apologized immediately. I came here desperate to figure out exactly what that meant, wanting everyone to define it in it's complete entirety and someone said "maybe he just panicked and spewed. No secret code here" - that stuck with me a little. Not saying yours isn't quacking, maybe he is. But if it helps, I'm doing the same thing over here, analyzing while trying not to analyze. good luck...
My RA has been sober for a little over 30 days. on his first or second day home from rehab, I took issue with something and my husband "panicked and spewed" a bit of ugly, then apologized immediately. I came here desperate to figure out exactly what that meant, wanting everyone to define it in it's complete entirety and someone said "maybe he just panicked and spewed. No secret code here" - that stuck with me a little. Not saying yours isn't quacking, maybe he is. But if it helps, I'm doing the same thing over here, analyzing while trying not to analyze. good luck...
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Join Date: May 2013
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My RAH took months of active recovery to achieve some clarity in what he said and did. In terms of quacking, I'm working on it, but I think the question for me is do things seems clear, honest, and direct such that they resonate with me or are they convoluted, confusing, and hard to untangle such that I feel all mixed up inside?
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
As first a codie, then an addict, I can only say that actions speak louder than words. I don't know where I got my codie stuff from, but I was a die-hard codie. I was a HORRIBLE money manager, because I was more concerned about XABF #1, #2, or #3.
It wasn't until I sought recovery on both things - addiction and codependency, that I realized what responsibility was. He knew the due date, waited (supposedly) until that day. Why? I assume he is an adult, but it appears that he is irresponsible. I was too. Today? I pay my bills ahead of time, often more than is required, and I still have enough to survive on.
Addiction or not, he's being irresponsible and he's blaming someone else. I KNOW it's hard to recognize the red flags, but keep reading here. I'm the person I am today, thanks to the people on this thread.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
It wasn't until I sought recovery on both things - addiction and codependency, that I realized what responsibility was. He knew the due date, waited (supposedly) until that day. Why? I assume he is an adult, but it appears that he is irresponsible. I was too. Today? I pay my bills ahead of time, often more than is required, and I still have enough to survive on.
Addiction or not, he's being irresponsible and he's blaming someone else. I KNOW it's hard to recognize the red flags, but keep reading here. I'm the person I am today, thanks to the people on this thread.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
This is why AUTHENTIC recovery has a laser focus on complete and utter honesty and if someone is truly attempting to change their addictive behaviors they have to be learn how to stop lying or even bending the truth to suit their current manipulation attempt.
Addicts have been lying for so long about serious and trivial details of life they simply don't know how to tell the truth without being mindful to pay close attention to their own thoughts and behaviors.
They are still in mode to deflect blame or blameshift to avoid what they feel is the ultimate unpleasantness of having to be accountable for actions or behaviors from their spouse, bosses or whoever is questioning something.
This is one of the most aggravating parts of dealing with an A in or out of recovery because their slippery ways in dealing with life partners or relationships is like herding mercury balls across a terrazzo floor... they are hard to pin down and you never know if they are being completely honest with you.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a mate that always, always tells the absolute truth? Completely transparent and you never have to worry if they REALLy paid a bill or really took the dog out or the trash out or WHATEVER?
There is not drinking... the Dry A path... and there is authentic recovery where the A is going through the HARD battle of unraveling who he was and who he wants to be and willingness to do whatever it takes to become an honest person... ALWAYS.
The question I would be asking is whether his goal of recovery means the same to both of you... just not drinking is often just wringing the alcohol out of the asshat... all you have left is the asshat.
Addicts have been lying for so long about serious and trivial details of life they simply don't know how to tell the truth without being mindful to pay close attention to their own thoughts and behaviors.
They are still in mode to deflect blame or blameshift to avoid what they feel is the ultimate unpleasantness of having to be accountable for actions or behaviors from their spouse, bosses or whoever is questioning something.
This is one of the most aggravating parts of dealing with an A in or out of recovery because their slippery ways in dealing with life partners or relationships is like herding mercury balls across a terrazzo floor... they are hard to pin down and you never know if they are being completely honest with you.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a mate that always, always tells the absolute truth? Completely transparent and you never have to worry if they REALLy paid a bill or really took the dog out or the trash out or WHATEVER?
There is not drinking... the Dry A path... and there is authentic recovery where the A is going through the HARD battle of unraveling who he was and who he wants to be and willingness to do whatever it takes to become an honest person... ALWAYS.
The question I would be asking is whether his goal of recovery means the same to both of you... just not drinking is often just wringing the alcohol out of the asshat... all you have left is the asshat.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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With my ah i recognize when hes quaking because he will say things that make absolutely no sense or at least small sense or he will whine or throw a fit about everything or anything. stupid things.
It's kind of easy to point out quaking with my ah. it's exactly what is sounds like, a quake!
It's kind of easy to point out quaking with my ah. it's exactly what is sounds like, a quake!
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Originally Posted by isitme 
Quite frankly I've taken to looking at it all as quacking, that way if he was by chance telling the truth I can be pleasantly surprised instead of let down by thinking it was the truth and having it be another quack.
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