AH is Losing his Children
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
hi again
i messed up by deleting my first post but it posted anyway.
Pippi, you seem like a very loving mother who wants the best for your kids.
until you stop relying on him for sole financial support, you will have these situations and you and your kids will suffer regardless of whose fault it is. money is power and he has all the money and power in your situation. that sucks for you but it is what it is.
my mother never really worked for her own reasons and after my parents divorced she relied on him for support. he gave her low low alimony and she has complained the last 30 years about it. she never did go out on her own to develop her own income source. she lives in a small apartment in their old neighborhood. her place is filled with the expensive furniture and clothes my father bought her decades ago. she never really moved on from the lifestyle or lifestyle appearances she once had and adjusted for the reality of where she is today. My sister and I hate that for her because it has left her stuck in a way.
One big thing that she likely never intended is the effect her choice to do that made on me and my sister. We learned from her that we need to rely on a man to support us. We learned that you need to keep your man happy so that he continues to support you. We learned that although she has a great education she has never really worked and didn't like where she would have to start off in the workplace since she has little or outdated experience. We learned that unless it is a high quality position it is not worth having. We learned about entitlement and dependence from my mother. Entitlement and dependence are VERY had to unlearn as adults. Both my sister and I went to private schools, good colleges and have graduate degrees from top universities. We appear successful. My sister ended up living with a gambling addict for 5 years and I was engaged to an alcoholic for 4 years. It has taken us both years to sort this crap out.
My father controls with money. His father controlled him and his brothers with money. It appears to me to be a learned behavior. Dependence is also a learned behavior. It is funny how the controllers and the dependents seek each other out.
I don't think your kid should have to give up his ipad, but no way should he or you or anyone be receiving dad's texts. it is unhealthy to snoop like that. i get why would do it, but worry about your health if you choose to do it. taking care of our mental health is VERY important and it can be easy to slip back into old patterns. we all have to keep that in check. i know that i do.
i messed up by deleting my first post but it posted anyway.
Pippi, you seem like a very loving mother who wants the best for your kids.
until you stop relying on him for sole financial support, you will have these situations and you and your kids will suffer regardless of whose fault it is. money is power and he has all the money and power in your situation. that sucks for you but it is what it is.
my mother never really worked for her own reasons and after my parents divorced she relied on him for support. he gave her low low alimony and she has complained the last 30 years about it. she never did go out on her own to develop her own income source. she lives in a small apartment in their old neighborhood. her place is filled with the expensive furniture and clothes my father bought her decades ago. she never really moved on from the lifestyle or lifestyle appearances she once had and adjusted for the reality of where she is today. My sister and I hate that for her because it has left her stuck in a way.
One big thing that she likely never intended is the effect her choice to do that made on me and my sister. We learned from her that we need to rely on a man to support us. We learned that you need to keep your man happy so that he continues to support you. We learned that although she has a great education she has never really worked and didn't like where she would have to start off in the workplace since she has little or outdated experience. We learned that unless it is a high quality position it is not worth having. We learned about entitlement and dependence from my mother. Entitlement and dependence are VERY had to unlearn as adults. Both my sister and I went to private schools, good colleges and have graduate degrees from top universities. We appear successful. My sister ended up living with a gambling addict for 5 years and I was engaged to an alcoholic for 4 years. It has taken us both years to sort this crap out.
My father controls with money. His father controlled him and his brothers with money. It appears to me to be a learned behavior. Dependence is also a learned behavior. It is funny how the controllers and the dependents seek each other out.
I don't think your kid should have to give up his ipad, but no way should he or you or anyone be receiving dad's texts. it is unhealthy to snoop like that. i get why would do it, but worry about your health if you choose to do it. taking care of our mental health is VERY important and it can be easy to slip back into old patterns. we all have to keep that in check. i know that i do.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Indiana, IL
Posts: 424
[QUOTE=Lulu39;4291525
Any charitable welfare agency in the developed world will have free winter coats for children who are feeling the cold. [B]Free.[/B] Go and get one. Your kid is cold.
There are all sort of welfare agencies that help kids regardless of the situation. SNAP benefits, clothing, shelter ect..Of course, one has to really dig for theses agencies but they are out there. I would imagine it will be easier than getting anything from your ex-husband.
Any charitable welfare agency in the developed world will have free winter coats for children who are feeling the cold. [B]Free.[/B] Go and get one. Your kid is cold.
There are all sort of welfare agencies that help kids regardless of the situation. SNAP benefits, clothing, shelter ect..Of course, one has to really dig for theses agencies but they are out there. I would imagine it will be easier than getting anything from your ex-husband.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
I am not in the US and I am not yet a citizen where I have been living with the children these past 3 plus years. If I accept public aid right now, I risk losing my right to live here. Once I am employed in a real job ( temp, tutoring, etc doesn't count) for 12 months, then I can accept aid.
If we can stick it out, though, the children will be eligible for citizenship here and either way, can attend some of the best universities in the world for a pittance.
If we can stick it out, though, the children will be eligible for citizenship here and either way, can attend some of the best universities in the world for a pittance.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Indiana, IL
Posts: 424
Pippi, I'm sorry to hear your story. The amount of money for the lawyers has to be astronomical. The court system benefits the most while the families on both sides suffer. I am originally from a Central American country and found the system works better. A bit harsh, at times, but would never let family/custody cases drag on like here in the U.S. or U.K.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Hi Missfix,
Yes, it is iffy to be receiving these texts! Shows me where my mind goes. First, he wants to skype DD13. Then 4 minutes later he has disappeared. Then I start seeing my daughter get anxious, and sad. I get anxious. What just happened? Where is he? How could he make her wait like that? Did he get into a car accident?
Then later the children go to sleep and I see the texts. Pictures of a house with four women and AH. Bikinis, vodka, motorcycle...i know two of them. Another is a famous athlete.
I learned something. All those years of mysteries and AH telling me I am crazy, paranoid.
I need to get my eyelids peeled backwards and SEE what the truth is/has been so I can know how I was never crazy/paranoid. I was right on.
There is more comfort in seeing the truth than pain. I don't have love for stbxah. I have revulsion, amusement, horror, disgust.
I will transition back to no contact, but I think for the moment I am grateful for the opportunity to know, really know, who stbxah is.
Yes, it is iffy to be receiving these texts! Shows me where my mind goes. First, he wants to skype DD13. Then 4 minutes later he has disappeared. Then I start seeing my daughter get anxious, and sad. I get anxious. What just happened? Where is he? How could he make her wait like that? Did he get into a car accident?
Then later the children go to sleep and I see the texts. Pictures of a house with four women and AH. Bikinis, vodka, motorcycle...i know two of them. Another is a famous athlete.
I learned something. All those years of mysteries and AH telling me I am crazy, paranoid.
I need to get my eyelids peeled backwards and SEE what the truth is/has been so I can know how I was never crazy/paranoid. I was right on.
There is more comfort in seeing the truth than pain. I don't have love for stbxah. I have revulsion, amusement, horror, disgust.
I will transition back to no contact, but I think for the moment I am grateful for the opportunity to know, really know, who stbxah is.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Indiana, IL
Posts: 424
pippi, it just seems that you are torturing yourself looking at your ex-husbands photos with scantily clad women. He is taking up way too much time & space in your head. Move on and go the no contact route.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Hi Florence,
I really appreciate your insights!
I am having the loveliest evening with the children. We made veggie chili from scratch. Cooked all afternoon. DD13 has a lovely friend over. We decorated the table with a crazy assortment of Halloween/automnal knick knacks and everyone has been laughing, eating, playing card games. There's peace and good will. The children are softening, thawing.
I have to acknowledge the good fortune we have to rebuild.
I totally agree that Al Anon teachings totally apply to dealing with a narcissist, with or without some alcoholism thrown in. And that the outlook is bleak for any future dealings with an xnpdh. I never totally realized how completely horrid he was. I thought I was paranoid, and that is what he always told me.
For the children, my clarity will help them. I have been unsure of the truth for so long. They must have felt that from me. Now I know I have taken the right steps forward. I am trusting myself more and more and then they can trust me more, too.
Even DD13 is doing better, after being so angry with me. Florence, you got it just right, her interaction with her narcissist father. The cure, I think, is knowledge about him and knowledge about herself. She does need to figure out what games he is playing and decide accordingly how she wants to deal with him - or not.
I can't help but feel we will all be better off with the least interaction with him possible. That means Mom makes some money, grandma spends the most time possible here, divorce gets settled lightening quick, and we stick by each other no matter what. With DD13 angry with her father, she and DS16 are getting along so much better.
I am not saying that I want to promote the children having a bad relationship with their father. I do want them to be able to recognize when they are being mistreated. I also want us to come together and rebuild our lives. Beauty emerging from the ashes.
I really appreciate your insights!
I am having the loveliest evening with the children. We made veggie chili from scratch. Cooked all afternoon. DD13 has a lovely friend over. We decorated the table with a crazy assortment of Halloween/automnal knick knacks and everyone has been laughing, eating, playing card games. There's peace and good will. The children are softening, thawing.
I have to acknowledge the good fortune we have to rebuild.
I totally agree that Al Anon teachings totally apply to dealing with a narcissist, with or without some alcoholism thrown in. And that the outlook is bleak for any future dealings with an xnpdh. I never totally realized how completely horrid he was. I thought I was paranoid, and that is what he always told me.
For the children, my clarity will help them. I have been unsure of the truth for so long. They must have felt that from me. Now I know I have taken the right steps forward. I am trusting myself more and more and then they can trust me more, too.
Even DD13 is doing better, after being so angry with me. Florence, you got it just right, her interaction with her narcissist father. The cure, I think, is knowledge about him and knowledge about herself. She does need to figure out what games he is playing and decide accordingly how she wants to deal with him - or not.
I can't help but feel we will all be better off with the least interaction with him possible. That means Mom makes some money, grandma spends the most time possible here, divorce gets settled lightening quick, and we stick by each other no matter what. With DD13 angry with her father, she and DS16 are getting along so much better.
I am not saying that I want to promote the children having a bad relationship with their father. I do want them to be able to recognize when they are being mistreated. I also want us to come together and rebuild our lives. Beauty emerging from the ashes.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Pippi, I just want to acknowledge your strength and your obvious devotion to your children throughout this horrific course at the hands of a narcissistic psychopath.
I have no doubt that you will rise---like a phoenix!!
Hang in, as always and don't stop posting. There are others who suffer the unthinkable--and you also help them.
You are one of our peeps and we care about you.
dandylion
I have no doubt that you will rise---like a phoenix!!
Hang in, as always and don't stop posting. There are others who suffer the unthinkable--and you also help them.
You are one of our peeps and we care about you.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Pippi,
I loved reading your last post--so much positive progress despite your ex's abusive behavior. I remember reading something a long time ago, about a woman whose husband died during the Great Depression leaving her with 5 children to care for. Someone asker her, "How did you survive with all those children to take care of?" and her reply was, "I never would have survived without them." I think of that all the time when I stop to think about the massive responsibility of now being the sole provider and sane parent to three precious little ones.
You sound a lot like me--my children make me ridiculously happy. They are cheerful, intelligent, talkative, funny, respectful, generous, and loving. We have a blast together, no matter what we are doing. The mix of personalities is fascinating, as is watching them blossom into fully developed human beings. I am so thankful to be free of the drama of living with an AH, because it allows me to truly savor this time with my children.
I am so glad to hear you are cutting as many ties with your ex as possible, have 3 interviews coming up, and are determined to be financially independent from him. It will protect you and the children a great deal from the drama and allow you the time to focus on your one precious life and to truly savor your time with your children.
I'm looking forward to more posts about your courageous course of action. Don't stop posting, I get a lot of strength and insight from your journey, as do so many people who read the SR forum.
Hugs,
B
I loved reading your last post--so much positive progress despite your ex's abusive behavior. I remember reading something a long time ago, about a woman whose husband died during the Great Depression leaving her with 5 children to care for. Someone asker her, "How did you survive with all those children to take care of?" and her reply was, "I never would have survived without them." I think of that all the time when I stop to think about the massive responsibility of now being the sole provider and sane parent to three precious little ones.
You sound a lot like me--my children make me ridiculously happy. They are cheerful, intelligent, talkative, funny, respectful, generous, and loving. We have a blast together, no matter what we are doing. The mix of personalities is fascinating, as is watching them blossom into fully developed human beings. I am so thankful to be free of the drama of living with an AH, because it allows me to truly savor this time with my children.
I am so glad to hear you are cutting as many ties with your ex as possible, have 3 interviews coming up, and are determined to be financially independent from him. It will protect you and the children a great deal from the drama and allow you the time to focus on your one precious life and to truly savor your time with your children.
I'm looking forward to more posts about your courageous course of action. Don't stop posting, I get a lot of strength and insight from your journey, as do so many people who read the SR forum.
Hugs,
B
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,423
Pippi I think you are doing a great job of raising your kids given the circumstances.
I am in the same boat & it is hard & I agree the children need to know there is no money left over for anything but needs.
I've been through 5 child support hearings in 7 years, some successful & some not, never ever give up. Now looks like I may need to go for number 6.
Hugs.
I am in the same boat & it is hard & I agree the children need to know there is no money left over for anything but needs.
I've been through 5 child support hearings in 7 years, some successful & some not, never ever give up. Now looks like I may need to go for number 6.
Hugs.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng 
I am not in the US and I am not yet a citizen where I have been living with the children these past 3 plus years. If I accept public aid right now, I risk losing my right to live here. Once I am employed in a real job ( temp, tutoring, etc doesn't count) for 12 months, then I can accept aid.
Charitable agencies are just that, charities. They operate in most developed countries around the world. They don't care if you are a citizen or not. They are not "public aid".
I too am not in the US but I do know that you can get charitable help from a chariity no matter what. A charity will help anyone.
In my country women who are not eligible for public/govt. aid get help and support from women's groups and women's charities. Housing, financial counselling, money, appliances, clothing, etc.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Hi again Lulu,
It is upsetneedhelp who suggested I seek help with a welfare agency. I have had the complete tour of agencies here. Might be where I land employment, as I become an expert! I get free counseling from a domestic violence center an free advice from an agency that works with foreigners, and more advice/counseling from a women's agency here who find themselves frustrated with how little they can do for me. I get free legal help from two other agencies. I may get financial benefits soon from unemployment and a subsidy for health insurance. That I will learn soon. But food pantries and churches here don't seem to function here like in many places. I may also get help here with my legal bills. That's next week's effort, among others.
There's also a very nice man in my life (friend)who really seems to want to be in my life and I am incredibly reluctant to let things go anywhere. I know he could get me a job - he's in a high agency with a big company and he's as much as said so - I know he's a really good guy and is serious, but I wriggle out of any interaction with him that goes beyond chatting among our friends. I need help, but I feel that God has brought me to this place to find that I can rely on myself. When I get a job, then maybe I will let this man, or another, into my life.
I wish that I had not let my professional life go, but then I wouldn't have my four children, and so I am glad I let it go.
It is upsetneedhelp who suggested I seek help with a welfare agency. I have had the complete tour of agencies here. Might be where I land employment, as I become an expert! I get free counseling from a domestic violence center an free advice from an agency that works with foreigners, and more advice/counseling from a women's agency here who find themselves frustrated with how little they can do for me. I get free legal help from two other agencies. I may get financial benefits soon from unemployment and a subsidy for health insurance. That I will learn soon. But food pantries and churches here don't seem to function here like in many places. I may also get help here with my legal bills. That's next week's effort, among others.
There's also a very nice man in my life (friend)who really seems to want to be in my life and I am incredibly reluctant to let things go anywhere. I know he could get me a job - he's in a high agency with a big company and he's as much as said so - I know he's a really good guy and is serious, but I wriggle out of any interaction with him that goes beyond chatting among our friends. I need help, but I feel that God has brought me to this place to find that I can rely on myself. When I get a job, then maybe I will let this man, or another, into my life.
I wish that I had not let my professional life go, but then I wouldn't have my four children, and so I am glad I let it go.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Wowsers, Pippi!!! You are unusually wise to avoid letting this man (even though he is nice) do you a big favor when you are aware that he has romantic design on you.
I have been in this position more than once in my professional life---and, boy is it easy to go with the flow--when you need the job badly and have three kids to feed (as I also did).
But, let me tell you--there is no free lunch--and, it REALLY causes a change of power in the relationship. So, any relationship that "might have been" becomes tainted with expectations, obligations, guilt, anger......and all kinds of potentially bad feelings.
I would advise any woman that it is better to resist temptation--better safe than sorry!
Besides, coming off of a traumatic marriage/divorce---a person needs a heavy relationship like they need another hole in the head.
Good for you, Pippi for keeping your head about you.
dandylion
I have been in this position more than once in my professional life---and, boy is it easy to go with the flow--when you need the job badly and have three kids to feed (as I also did).
But, let me tell you--there is no free lunch--and, it REALLY causes a change of power in the relationship. So, any relationship that "might have been" becomes tainted with expectations, obligations, guilt, anger......and all kinds of potentially bad feelings.
I would advise any woman that it is better to resist temptation--better safe than sorry!
Besides, coming off of a traumatic marriage/divorce---a person needs a heavy relationship like they need another hole in the head.
Good for you, Pippi for keeping your head about you.
dandylion
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
They are all nice in the beginning, aren't they? He is a sensible choice, but he doesn't make me quite weak in the knees, either, so don't give me too much credit. The one who does is his good friend but that's another story!
Bthechange, it's eactly that. The children give us so much strength and courage. I just wish somedays I were more worthy of their love. I have to teach them so much right now and it is so, so hard sometimes to keep us above water.
Rosiepetal, do you get the money back that you spend on the legal fees re: child support?
I can see that AH will draw this thing out forever and I am both loathe to deal with courts again and yet it seems near impossible to not fight to protect the children. I hope your efforts get met with quick success!
Bthechange, it's eactly that. The children give us so much strength and courage. I just wish somedays I were more worthy of their love. I have to teach them so much right now and it is so, so hard sometimes to keep us above water.
Rosiepetal, do you get the money back that you spend on the legal fees re: child support?
I can see that AH will draw this thing out forever and I am both loathe to deal with courts again and yet it seems near impossible to not fight to protect the children. I hope your efforts get met with quick success!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
Hi Pippi. What your STBexAH is putting your daughter through is so familiar to me. My ex did that to our (now 19 y.o.) daughter. He would tell her he was coming to one of her tournaments to watch her compete, then back out or not show. (She's a world champion in her former sport. Not once in all the years she trained and competed did he see her compete live.) He is an insecure, jealous narcissist and would text and call me in the middle of the night while she and I were traveling to say horrible things and try to ruin the trip. Not her trip, mine -- she was just collateral damage.
One night soon after we split up stands out. He made plans to come and pick her up and take her out to dinner. She was about 17 at the time. She got dressed, waited, waited some more. Texted him to say are you coming. Yes. Of course he never showed. He was with his new GF and they were drunk in a bar.
Here's what I learned that night after texting him to tell him his daughter is extremely distraught by his actions (and many other days and nights when I said a similar thing and got the same result -- it takes me awhile to learn some things): my pointing how much he is hurting his kids is actually funny to him, because he knows it REALLY upsets me. Not only has he never admitted he's a terrible father and should do better, he laughs and pushes it back. That's right, I'm the bad mother. If the kids are unhappy, it's because of me, not him. After all I'm the one taking care of them. It's nothing to do with him.
So I'm saying, in my experience, don't waste your breath. It doesn't go in one ear and out the other - it never even gets in one ear.
One night soon after we split up stands out. He made plans to come and pick her up and take her out to dinner. She was about 17 at the time. She got dressed, waited, waited some more. Texted him to say are you coming. Yes. Of course he never showed. He was with his new GF and they were drunk in a bar.
Here's what I learned that night after texting him to tell him his daughter is extremely distraught by his actions (and many other days and nights when I said a similar thing and got the same result -- it takes me awhile to learn some things): my pointing how much he is hurting his kids is actually funny to him, because he knows it REALLY upsets me. Not only has he never admitted he's a terrible father and should do better, he laughs and pushes it back. That's right, I'm the bad mother. If the kids are unhappy, it's because of me, not him. After all I'm the one taking care of them. It's nothing to do with him.
So I'm saying, in my experience, don't waste your breath. It doesn't go in one ear and out the other - it never even gets in one ear.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Pippi,
I think that parenting teenagers is always a challenge, and when one parent is an addict it must feel overwhelming at times. My 3 are still young, but I anticipate some fallout from the situation with their alcoholic father when they are teens, even thought it's a number of years away.
As for being worthy of your childrens' love (which you no doubt are!!), it always helps me to remember that we are all on our own journey, learning as we go and usually learning by trial and error. As parents, we are constantly teaching by example whether we intend to or not: here's how I made a mistake, and here's how I'm going to fix it. Here's something I'm working on improving in myself, but here's how I love myself, flaws and all, in the meantime. Here's something that's painful to acknowledge, but let's talk about it anyway, and as tenderly as possible.
I hope today was a good day for you and the kids.
~ B
I think that parenting teenagers is always a challenge, and when one parent is an addict it must feel overwhelming at times. My 3 are still young, but I anticipate some fallout from the situation with their alcoholic father when they are teens, even thought it's a number of years away.
As for being worthy of your childrens' love (which you no doubt are!!), it always helps me to remember that we are all on our own journey, learning as we go and usually learning by trial and error. As parents, we are constantly teaching by example whether we intend to or not: here's how I made a mistake, and here's how I'm going to fix it. Here's something I'm working on improving in myself, but here's how I love myself, flaws and all, in the meantime. Here's something that's painful to acknowledge, but let's talk about it anyway, and as tenderly as possible.
I hope today was a good day for you and the kids.
~ B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Santa, yes, I think when all else fails they'll hurt the children to try to get to us. And I think there's a way in which AH is using my older two as substitutes for me. He isn't able to hurt me as much any more, as I get stronger, but he needs a target so he is going after DS16 and DD13 now. And by doing that, he is certainly upsetting all of us, and they are responding by bonding closer with me and their younger siblings, and distancing themselves from their dad.
So today was a bit more drama from AH. This time he sent a long email to DS16, blaming me for everything, but absolutely everything. And attaching his long form financial statement from the divorce papers. It is just all about poor him and not an iota about DS.
Then he skypes with DS10 and DD7, showing them all their belongings that he refuses to let them have here and saying they can play with most of our worldly possessions only when they come to stay with him the week after xmas. DS10 told his father he wants his things here and his father has refused to let him have his train set, piggy pillow, or music box.
I have a lot of work to do these next few months to get my life disentangled from AH's, but I have pointed myself in the right general direction and taken some baby steps forward, I think. Last year I was just learning about alcoholism for the first time, and starting to put the first puzzle pieces together. AH was considering rehab and referring to AA. I thought we were probably going to fix him, at least somewhat. I had no idea what madness would ensue. Probably better that I didn't, ir I would have been even more scared!
So today was a bit more drama from AH. This time he sent a long email to DS16, blaming me for everything, but absolutely everything. And attaching his long form financial statement from the divorce papers. It is just all about poor him and not an iota about DS.
Then he skypes with DS10 and DD7, showing them all their belongings that he refuses to let them have here and saying they can play with most of our worldly possessions only when they come to stay with him the week after xmas. DS10 told his father he wants his things here and his father has refused to let him have his train set, piggy pillow, or music box.
I have a lot of work to do these next few months to get my life disentangled from AH's, but I have pointed myself in the right general direction and taken some baby steps forward, I think. Last year I was just learning about alcoholism for the first time, and starting to put the first puzzle pieces together. AH was considering rehab and referring to AA. I thought we were probably going to fix him, at least somewhat. I had no idea what madness would ensue. Probably better that I didn't, ir I would have been even more scared!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
