FallenAngelina

Ah...yes, Anvilhead - that's what I was wondering about - the kind of behaviors to look out for as the relationship progresses and how all that doesn't jive with the soulmate stuff. What is the intention of the psychopath's efforts to mimic intimate feelings and try to get the partner to attach? Is it fear of abandonment? Control over the partner? Why would someone go to all that effort to lure in and then keep a parter that he has no feelings for? As Lexicat says, abusers have feelings for their partner, if way out of control. What motivates a psychopath to put all this effort into a relationship in which there's no actual attachment or emotion?

AnvilheadII

because he can. it's all a game.

LexieCat

What I'm trying to get across is that most abusive men are NOT psychopaths. Psychopaths are not all that common (except in the District of Columbia, apparently). There are plenty of people who are mentally normal, yet abusive. There are also plenty of people with personality disorders (narcissists, borderline personality, etc.) who can cause a lot of harm and are manipulative.

The bottom line is don't worry about the label. If someone is manipulating you, it ain't a healthy relationship. If someone is constantly making you feel bad, ditto.

If we cared half as much about ourselves as we do the people who are making our lives miserable, we'd be gone at the first sign.

mylifeismine

Angelina, I've seen this book recommended several times on SR
and I think it's on the reading list too:


https://www.amazon.com/Psychopath-Fr...PPX3T5SSJJ1NJ9

SoloMio

This is a great article, and definitely describes the slow, trance-like effect of a relationship like this. I think psychopathic tendencies can be anywhere along a wide continuum, however, and I think that the description of this relationship pattern can also apply to narcissists. My point is, I see a lot of myself in how I responded to AH, but I would not classify him as a psychopath. Is he irresponsible? Yes. Is he self-centered? Yes. Is he charming. Bingo. etc etc. But he has a conscience and empathy and I would never go so far as to say he's a psychopath.

My point is, I'd hate for someone to read that and feel that "My [AH/ABF/AW/AGF] isn't a psychopath so this doesn't apply to me."

I think it's a great checklist for people entering a relationship in terms of monitoring their own reactions and behaviors to people like this. My therapist told me that I was "in thrall" to AH. So the key learning in this article for me is, don't ask yourself "Is he/she a psychopath?" Ask yourself, am I being sucked in? Am I in thrall? Am I ignoring my own boundaries, values, and interests in service to someone like this? If you are, get yourself help.

Cyranoak

... but what I will agree with is that most relationships start this way. It's the "good" part with which I have an issue-- most good relationships. I'd bet more bad relationships start this way than good ones.

It does describe what could be called "love at first sight," "being madly in love," etc. That euphoric feeling so many people hunger for and chase when they are lonely or alone. It makes everybody who thinks this is normal vulnerable to those who know.

I used to think this too. Now I know that it is an illusion-- just a feeling that caused me, over and over again, to choose the wrong woman for me based on factors that don't mean jack ****. The reason I did this is because of what I was prioritizing in women-- primarily that they would need me or I could be their hero or savior. Or help them be better people or the person they have the "potential" to be

So humiliating to admit that. Potential? Potential! For the love of God if I even date potential again somebody kill me!

If ever looking for a relationship again I pray I will be smarter, and pick a woman based on the content of her character as evidenced by her life now and before. If she does not have a group of friends that she sees regularly, if she is not close with her family, if she does not have a consistent work history, I now know it's highly likely something is very, very wrong.

All meant with respect.

C-

FallenAngelina

i guess we can't know for sure, but from the laboratory of my own life and observing others, every good relationship I know about, including my own 18 year marriage, started out with butterflies and googly eyes and that soulmate feeling. One reason I chose my husband was because when we were dating, he called me every single evening at 8 PM, just as he said he would - on the dot. He was attentive and full of compliments and he said that loved me like he had no other woman before. All of this endured the length of our marriage. He is not an addict and we amicably divorced over other reasons. I've never been involved with a psychopath or anything like what Anvilhead described in her last post and nobody has changed drastically on me, so maybe the psychopath love bombing is different than the love bombing that (I would say) most people feel at the beginning of a relationship. Every good relationship I know about began much the way that the article describes, that's why I wondered about what else a person should look out for. You also point out some helpful things, like being aware of the person's family relationships, work history and social group. But I don't think that lots of attention, affection and the soul mate feeling are red flags at all - they are normal feelings to have when you meet someone who makes your heart sing in a good way.

I think it's vitally important for people to know what a good relationship entails, in addition to knowing which red flags are hallmarks of bad relationships. It's never a matter of making a checklist - lots of overlap and grey - but that happy, giddy, butterfly, can't=get-enough-of-you feeling is normal and common to have at the beginning. And it's not something that only young people feel or express. I'm single and over 50 and I see people my age feel like teenagers again - all the same feelings of new love that they experienced decades ago. I think it's important for people to know that feeling head over heels (and inspiring it in another)is something wonderful and in and of itself, not a red flag or a sign that someone is bad news.

NYCDoglvr

Alcoholics may be psychopaths but I don't think most are. It's the active alcoholic's self involvement, self centered nature, that both conditions share. The point is what am I doing with someone like this and how do I populate my life with healthier people?

bluelily

This thread must be a Godsend, precisely what I needed to read now. It´s like seeing my xabf spelled down for me. I found out he has a new girlfriend - which is natural after a breakup, I know, but it still upset me a bit emotionally. And there´s always the surprise factor: how can anyone so far into alcoholism, who pees on himself, is verbally abusive and can´t hold a job get a girlfriend (who is pretty and much younger than him)?

But anyway, reading this was a confirmation that I dodged a bullet. He is an exact copy of the description of the psychopath: extremely charming, lures you in, treats you like you´re the woman he´s waited for all his life. I was surprised how long he would stare into my eyes, no one had ever done that. And he would send me flowers, call me several times a day or text. The whole love-bombing.

At the same time, he couldn´t stay still when we were together. I had the feeling he was restless every time we were alone, so there wasn´t much emotional intimacy. He just prefered to take me to crowded places, and was the life of the party.

All of this could be considered relatively normal but I think the thing that made him dangerous and possibly a psychopath was that he lacked empathy. He went through the motions of caring for others (probably because it made him look good) but he had no real emotional connection. Looking back, I can´t think of anyone he really loved.
Also, he only established relations with people who were useful to him. He used to visit his grandmother regularly because there was an inheritance at stake (he didn´t spend any time near his other grandparents, who weren´t well off). And so on with everyone he knew.
I experienced this very clearly in the fact that he had no interest whatsoever in me outside of what I could do for him. For example, he didn´t want to know anything about my life that didn´t relate to him. He told me he didn´t want to meet my kids because it would be uncomfortable for him and children never like their mother´s boyfriend. Which I thought was fine in the beginning but after some months, when the relationship progressed, I resented the fact that he wouldn´t make any effort to get to know my kids (who, after all, are a huge part of my life) and make himself likeable with them (he certainly had the skills to make himself liked!). Even more, whenever I wanted to talk about something that had happened to me he quickly changed the subject.

There were many, many other situations in which he lacked empathy only I took me a long time to realize this because he was an expert at pretending. I was shocked though when I found him hitting his parents´dogs, and then smirked satisfied that they were afraid of him. Another time he mentioned that he loved bullying. I don´t think he realized how awful that sounded.

At the same time, there was a lack of fear in him that I found strange but at the same time fascinating, because who wouldn´t like to go through life without fear? I think this is one of the things that made him so attractive to me.

I had no previous experience with alcoholism so I believed all of this was the result of his drinking. Now I think alcohol only gave him an excuse to be abusive. The lack of empathy and cruelty was all his.

I also wondered a lot Why? Why would he want to lure people in and control them? My humble opinion, after this experience, is that it was all about the feeling of power this gave him. Not because he was afraid of abandonment or whatever. He just enjoyed power for the sake of it. And crushing someone else emotionally is the ultimate pleasure for him.

Phew, so glad I escaped. I´m feeling bad for the new victim, though.

LexieCat

At one time I would have been totally susceptible to "love bombing" but now it would creep me out.

LOL, I talked to my cousin on the phone the other day. We are not SUPER close (our family just isn't), but she is the one cousin I've always considered a friend and someone whose company I enjoy.

Her husband, whom she married around the time she finished college, I think, was one of my brother's best friends in HS. "D" was someone who always made us roll our eyes--we used to call him "Eddie Haskell" (for those of you old enough to remember "Leave it to Beaver"). Big on the compliments, the grand gestures--just too, TOO. Every gift, including her engagement ring, was either a box inside a box inside a box, or hidden so she would have to follow little love notes to find it, or something.

But know what's the MOST annoying? With him, it is utterly, completely sincere. He's still the same way today. He brings her fresh flowers every week. She was telling me the other day that my mom (from whom I inherited my snark) was over at my aunt's house when they were still dating. My mom noticed the huge bouquet on the table with my cousin's name on the card, and my mom rolled her eyes and said, "DR strikes again!" My cousin said she STILL gets flowers every week--forty-plus years later. And he can still make me roll my eyes, but he is a truly good guy and they are very happy and have a great family.

So yeah, sometimes the love-bombing is real and it works. It's just that in my own experience/observation, that's rarely the case.

FeelingGreat

I'm an addict, and I'm pretty sure I'm not a psychopath. Addicts do what they need to feed their addiction and sometimes this includes hurting other people but not all of them are evil.

Some addicts are psychopaths, and their behaviour is probably independent of their addiction.

Sasha1972

I'm not remotely an expert on psychopaths, but have had to deal with a couple of such individuals in a work capacity. One thing I learned about people like that is that they have very high thresholds for arousal (excitement, stimulation - not just sex but in general). This means they have to create drama and intrigue and manipulation, not because they are consciously setting out to control others but because they get excruciatingly bored with what the rest of us think of as normal life - things just going along day after day. They are motivated by a craving for excitement because they literally don't feel alive at lower levels of stimulation. Manipulation and drama are how they feed themselves - and because they lack empathy, they aren't bothered by the fact that their high stimulation thresholds are causing harm to people around them. That's what makes a psychopath different from a jerk, or so I am told.

Smarie78

I have to agree with this. My Bf fits the description to a T of borderline but not at all what I'd call a psychopath by definition despite some of the shared traits. I strongly agree however that abuse and manipulation can be present in any person and it's what to watch out for.