Leana

Lewis
I think the problem is that you are trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense. The addict/alcoholic brain doesn't work like the non user/non-drinker brain.

We sincerely mean it when we say we want to quit but the urge to pick up that drink is so strong that we rationalize, manipulate, or lie to make it happen.

We also have problems with our short memory; how lousy we felt last weekend is forgotten by the following weekend, thus allowing us to drink without regret. I wish I could make sense of it, when I was 5 I burned my hand badly by touching the burner of the stove, in 50 years I've never put my hand on a stove burner again. Yet I've been sicker than hell from too much alcohol and I still pick up that bottle the next day????

Lewis73

well, I thought I'd update this...

Good news: it turns out my wife's "plan" was/is to be able to drive me for a night out this Saturday (my 40th birthday)

Bad News: well...not so good news... Is that she started ANOTHER medical detox last week in order to achieve this. She's got a couple more days of tablets left.

The day before she started the detox she went out to a friend's party, got wasted, smoked god knows what and came home only to crash over the coffee table at 4am.

part of me thinks she only does the medical detoxs because she hits these " I can't go on moments" that are too easily forgotten a few weeks later. She is already talking about getting campral (a drug prescribed in the UK quite a bit it seems) to deal with cravings....... yet shrugs me off when I mention AA ( or any attempt to actually change her mind set)

So, on Saturday she will ( thanks to £1000 of drugs) drive me for a meal for my 40th. There will be no party because she has cut off communication with most of my and her family.... So when she did mention the idea to them in an abrupt e-mail they didn't respond well.... She also ran it past my friends who didn't really know whether to accept or not given all that is going on so she knocked the whole idea on the head.

And my 17-year-old is still living with my parents and until wifey gets it into her head that she is responsible for this..... I can't see a solution to that. They simply don't talk to each other.

So.... I'm off for my birthday fully expecting her to relapse at some point because she refuses to get proper help - and I don't regard drugs that mask her cravings as long-term help!

Oh, and she is in a foul mood all the time so I am constantly having to explain to my younger kids why mummy is pissed off again!

Happy birthday me!

Its funny because this time last year it was exactly the same.... She was just off her first detox. Except I was terrified that her bad moods caused by cravings would lead to a relapse and her doing something stupid (and by new years she was getting off with strangers in a night club)........ 12 months on and I don't think I'd care if she did the same again.... As long as she didn't bother coming home!

JustAGirl1971

I'm sorry, Lewis It seems we're still in the same place with our kids. DS is still no contact with his father & still staying with my parents, too. He does come home for dinner when his father's at work. My husband is 3 weeks sober at the moment but I'm not expecting it to last. He has plans to watch the game Sunday at a bar with friends. Yes, I think it's a brilliant plan for an alcoholic to watch a game at a bar

Happy B-day to you! Regardless of what happens with your night out with your wife, I hope you're able to have a great celebration with your kids & family Happy 40th!!!

SingledadPolo73

Amazing ... My AW's 40th was a few months ago before I moved out. She secretly invited about 40 odd guests/friends, I put my foot down then and said that there was no way I was going to handle her drunk in front of people. I told her to call off the reservation, tell everyone that the party was NOT going to happen. She sent me an email to work practically begging me to let hert have the party, promising she wouldnt drink and would drive us there. I broke and allowed her. She didnt drink, friends told her how proud they were of her and a couple of days later, we were in the gutters again... She did this to basically to show off, taking pics of us (even though things were very bad) she made us look like sweethearts on facebook...I could go on and on. Once the manipulations stopped working, she turned into an animal!
Regarding your 17yr old, I have to say, in her eyes it might look like you are on your wife's side, even though your daughter has made a pretty loud statement... I think she might feel a bit left out by you too. Just my thoughts...

Lewis73

So, 40th came and went.

All very odd...wife gave me gifts (describing each as "from all of us" - she seemed very keen to make it clear they where from the family..not just her)

She also took me out so she hasnt had a drink in a couple of weeks now.....and it's just horrible.

She is very distant. We held hands on the night out but only because it was cold!

I saw an email she sent a friend who asked how we were getting on - she pretty much said "not very well but we are staying together for the kids" - and thats how she is acting. She goes to bed early to watch TV, very little interaction with me.

We have a couples counseling booked for tomorrow and last night she said "I dont know if its worth it - I just dont feel about you the way I used to...maybe I should just go"

She seems to be under the impression that if I left I'd just come running back (as I did all year to be fair) - I dont think she gets I'm at the end of the line - a "relationship" with someone where we get to hold hands on birthdays and have a odd sort of platonic friendship at all other times (all the while ignoring the real issues....daughter anyone???) is not what I'd want. I day dream about meeting someone...ANYONE!!! Just someone who might like to go for dinner and have a laugh and "shock horror" - enjoy the prospect of spending time with me.

Oh, and last night she could tell I was not happy with things so said "if you meet someone else, just go for it" - not in a nasty way, just like she wasnt fussed!!!

I dont get it - is she just numb from all the drink over the last few years? Is she really "out of love"???

She just seems like she'll happily plod on like this - with no interest in me (or anything really).....yet the reality is that she wont want to be lonely forever - at some point she will miss not having some intimacy with someone....and then what???

If it turns out I waited while she was a drunk, then waited while she wasnt "into" me...then she goes and finds someone else...I'll feel a mug!

I'd rather walk today!!! But there's a fear that 6 months down the line her feelings will return and she'll wish we were together - but it will be too late!

I dont want to be doing this at 50!

SnoozyQ

Wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said Jaynie .

Lewis i hope this gets sorted much sooner than later , because you all deserve a peaceful life . Your wife does not sound even close to abstaining .
My first husband let me call all the shots even tho i was totally incapable.
He was miserable , my children were miserable and yet i still drank .
We ending up divorcing after 25 years .

I wish he had have given me an ultimatum , but he didn't know what to do with me , so retreated and ignored what was going on right under his nose.

It's not his fault , but your wife needs you to make a stand for her and most importantly , your children .

Good luck , i wish you well

Lewis73

The problem, now she is 2 weeks sober, is that any "stand" I make will result in a "so you're not happy when I'm drunk, now you're not happy when I'm sober" attitude.

No matter what I problem I raise! Our daughter, our home not being looked after, our platonic (kiss once a week, maybe) relationship, whatever........she just goes through life slightly sad and then says me raising a problem is me being "negative and no wonder she wants a beer"

Right now she is at breakfast with her friends - the only time she seems to smile is when she is out with her girl friends.

ResignedToWait

If you're going to make it work, you have to know it'll never be like it used to be. Ever.

If you're able to come to grips with that, and accept it, and be ok with it...then you will be able to thrive in the new relationship dynamic.. If you're always upset about what you used to have and resentful of current attitudes and actions, you'll be in for a life of disappointment and regret.

You'll have to re-define your relationship if you stay. Very few can do that successfully.

If guilt is a problem for you, should you decide to leave...think really hard, but who really left the relationship first? I'm betting it wasn't you.

Lewis73

I'm all for re-defining.

In fact, before she drank I was a bit rubbish (although she's now surpassed me on that one!!!!)

My issue is - how do you go forward (re-defined or not) when she says "if you meet someone, go for it" !!!

Its like she has given up.

wanttobehealthy

Lewis- my heart goes out to you and your children so much. Everything you wrote- right down to being told by your spouse to find someone else- resonates and is so familiar...

It sounds to me like she may be white knuckling it (not drinking) bc she's taking Campral? but sobriety in my understanding is about the mental/thinking part too not just the drinking. It also sounds like she is acting cold and making rude comments to you in hopes you will respond as any sane person would with sadness or even anger and then she will have a reason to drink.

There were brief period with my xAH (still in the middle of the divorce because he is determined to drag it out for the full 2 years it can be dragged out before the judge will just grant me one) where he would stop drinking and he was distant, angry, pissed off, made life hell for our kids and I and if I said a word it was just as you describe with your wife... He'd complain that I was angry when he drank and angry when he was sober and that the problem was my "unstable moods" (projection much?) and not his drinking...

Your wife going on binges before medical detox sounds so familiar...

I could feel all the old feelings I had while living with XAH as I read your thread-- wondering if I left whether I would be passing up a chance for the feelings to return or "what if"...

I still wonder "what if" sometimes but now neither my kids nor I live with the day to day worry, angst, emotional focus being on the A all the time...

Living with an active alcoholic (actively drinking or not) is too much for us as adults so think about how hard it must be for your kids?

I am seeing so much damage done to my 8 yr old bc of how long I stayed with xAH and my 5 yr old has serious anger issues.... They are so little yet they have been so damaged by the alcoholic home...

I think if finances allow you to do it, maybe your wife needs to go live elsewhere for a while and focus on her and her sobriety if that's what she really wants and you and your kids can have a peaceful home and see how it feels...

Happy 40th by the way... My 40th was a year ago and xAH sort of planned a gathering of friends which I learned was in the works (except it was all friends whose partners were his drinking buddies and the gathering was going to be a BBQ aka drinking fest for xAH). I called people and cancelled it because the week before the party I had a small gathering of close friends and AH was drinking at it and made a scene and I was too fearful of what he might pull to be comfortable with friends over... So, I totally get your sadness over having what should have been a fun occasion be something awkward and not fun bc of the A.

Lewis73

That sums it.

My kids, in the last year, have got so angry....when they fight (as all boys do) they just end up screaming at each other - it's like they have learnt how to fight from us.

Their favorite insult to each other (or us) when really mad is "I wish you didnt live here"

That is a concept that has come straight from me and their mum....my folks are still together and in all my years growing up it would never even occur to me that someone within the family COULD live elsewhere! let alone suggest it out of anger.

At the moment she is not taking campral and her medical detox ended last Friday.... So I assume she is struggling right now. The trouble is, rather than look at options like AA/some sort of therapy, she is trying to fill her day with hobbies and meeting up with friends - which is great and something she should be doing but because it is all she is doing when evening comes and the kids are in bed we are back to it just being the two of us and her " mental state" . The result is polite and friendly chat ( though completely platonic) at best and an argument/sadness at worst.

I really feel that she could just " exist" like this for months or years..... Yet I feel enough time has been wasted already and just want to get on with living - with anyone!

Tomorrow we have counselling at 10 AM and then off to see gravity at the cinema at midday....( Wednesday is our regular " date night" but she is going out with a friend in the evening so I suggested a daytime movie) she said fine unless the counselling leaves her miserable in which case she won't go! lol...oh joy!

ResignedToWait

It's the first step in re-defining your relationship. =) More popcorn for you!

wanttobehealthy

My girls are so angry too and fight terribly with one another at times... It has lessened a lot since their dad hasn't been around but the things they say break my heart... a lot of "stop your crying", "I didn't do anything that bad", "you're a liar"-- total invalidation that the other is hurting which they learned well from their father...

It sounds to me like maybe what your kids are saying is less an insult and more a statement of their deepest feelings... I bet that when it's just you with them with your wife elsewhere it's less tense, no?

I didn't want to admit that for a long time.. and then when I did, I convinced myself that I could still have family life with AH on his terms... we could be a family when he was willing to be around and the rest of the time I would be happy with the girls myself... All that did was MESS with the girls emotions, and mine...

You sound like a man who wants a spouse, a family life, whose priorities are where they belong.... And you sound a lot like me a bit ago, in that you want to find a way to keep the peace with your AW in hopes she will come around.

It sounds to me like you are accepting FAR less than you deserve and than your kids deserve because of hope that things could improve if you stick it out...

I am not judging at all bc I did that for 4+ years. Someone on here told me once that hope is as dangerous as fear because both keep us stuck and immobile...

It's something I still struggle with accepting but there is a lot of truth to it.

Deep down I still "hope" that xAH will get it together and be the dad he could be to our kids... But I could not keep subjecting our kids and myself to the toxicity of our lives together bc of "hope" that he would change...

JustAGirl1971

I'm sorry, Lewis It seems we have even more in common. I almost could have written your post, it's all so familiar The one thing that you said that resonated the most with me, is this:

This says it all. We can't make them change. Your wife will do what she wants, my husband will do what he wants. All we can do is work on us. That's what I'm trying really hard to do - get myself healthy and happy for me and the kids. Then, if that compels him to work on himself, GREAT. If not, I'll be healthier, stronger, and ready to start a life on my own, without him. I know one thing for certain. I only have a few more years until ds leaves for college. I do not want those years to pass with him still living at my parents' house! That is not a solution for me.

Lewis73

Sort of an update.

On monday she suggested we argue because I work from home so we are under each others feet too much...so tuesday I spent the day out seeing clients and got home at 7pm.....by which time she was drunk!

So my fear of her relapsing was spot on - in effect what she gave me for my birthday was £1000 of drugs that she took for a week in order to be sober on my birthday and the two days after!!!

So you know what - I'll take the cash next time

today is our "date night" but she is going out with a friend so we switched it to a daytime movie..... She does not want to go so is in bed with a hangover at 2 PM - lol

oh, and in the couple of hours she was up and about this morning ( before going back to sleep) she did manage to say that I was always miserable! I wonder why!

I'm starting to think that she can add cowardly to her list of full of faults - what she should be doing is leaving ( or asking me to leave even) or stating that she is the work at it.........instead she does nothing but cause me misery then moan that my sadness is the reason she no longer feels strongly for me and I need to stop " going on at her"

She also let slip that one of her friends thinks we should be together because I make her sad - it's a pity that these people giving her advice don't experience living with her - there is no person on the planet that can live with an alcoholic and still go about life happy and jolly!

its horrible - but I'm starting to think that maybe I just want her gone.


Oh.... And she accused me of constantly changing my mind with regards to what I want from the relationship. I tried to explain that actually I was very consistent - I am in love with her and wanted to work. What changes day-to-day is my "hope" - and thats based on her. Sunday she was lovely and I saw signs it could work, by monday she was back to " I'm not in love with you" and " if you find someone else, go for it"....tuesday she was drunk!

I'm not surprised my optimism is a volatile state!!!

suki44883

Why don't you leave, or tell her you want her to leave? Why live with someone who makes you miserable all the time?

wanttobehealthy

Sounds like telling her to leave and giving yourself a well deserved 40th bday gift of peace for yourself and your kids in your home is in order.

Lewis73

good question!

Two answers!

firstly - if I knew, 100%, that I could leave and she would get sober I would but while there is a possibility ( probability) that she would continue to drink excessively I do want to leave her in charge of our three remaining children.

Secondly - when I moved out during the summer she feels that I pushed to return to the family home before she had benefited from sufficient space from me. So since then she has always stated that if anyone was to move out again it would be her so that she could guarantee her space. She thinks that if I left I would come running back again.

What's interesting is that I think she wants to have her cake and eat it. She wants to live here, with me ( and the money) yet get drunk when she likes and have no physical/emotional relationship with me.
When push comes to shove I'm not sure she will want to move out.

suki44883

NOTHING you do or say will get her sober. You cannot control her drinking no matter what you do. If you want her to leave, then you should tell her that. If she won't leave, then you should take your three children and go. If she wants to drink herself to death, that's her right as an adult, but you deserve better and your children certainly do.

Lewis73

I wish I was strong enough - its insane but, despite everything, I still look at her and see this beautiful but sad/worn out/unwell person I love dearly and just want to help.

"i want you to leave" is something I am struggling to say.

I honestly am not sure why?

Is it because I love her
is it because I'm scared of being alone
do I feel sorry for her
do I not want to ruin chances of recovering the relationship

My brain feels like scrambled eggs!