Wife is sober, articulate, sensible....but off to buy beer????
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 324
I'm starting to think that maybe you are right - I need the plan!
This week has been school holidays and the kids have just watched TV 24/7...and fought with each other.
I just went to her now and said that it would be great to have a vauge idea of what the plan might be, or at least when it might start..... She just became very defensive and angry and explained that she was feeling quite positive after talking to her counsellor today ( and knocking back a couple of beers) and now I had made her feel miserable..... She summed it up by saying that her counsellor was right and that I was destructive to her.
oh, and the chicken has not been put in the oven so I guess it's takeaway food again tonight!
This week has been school holidays and the kids have just watched TV 24/7...and fought with each other.
I just went to her now and said that it would be great to have a vauge idea of what the plan might be, or at least when it might start..... She just became very defensive and angry and explained that she was feeling quite positive after talking to her counsellor today ( and knocking back a couple of beers) and now I had made her feel miserable..... She summed it up by saying that her counsellor was right and that I was destructive to her.
oh, and the chicken has not been put in the oven so I guess it's takeaway food again tonight!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
Hugs to you Lewis...sounds like you need one. 
I would also encourage AlAnon or counseling with an addictions specialist for yourself. Your post reminded me of a discussion my group had the other night. We did a reading on Step 6, and one of the lines a group member spoke about was something along the lines of recognizing the discomfort in where you are. We talked about sometimes you are not ready to make a change, a decision, whatever, but the fact that you acknowledge that something makes you uncomfortable is the first step in making a change. It may take you awhile, it may come in many forms, but you are on your way there.
From your posts, it seems to me that you know something needs to change, but it seems too big to take it all on. That's okay...a big change is really a series of baby steps. So, what can you do for you today? Can you go to a meeting or make an appointment with a counselor? Can you start thinking about some boundaries for yourself? One of my first boundaries with RAH was that I would not talk with him once he had four beers. Also, I'm sorry to say, but it does not appear you can count on AW for much when it comes to the kids...can you make dinner for them & have an enjoyable meal together? How about reading & learning about detachment? There are lots of good threads on SR for that.
Please take care of yourself and your wonderful children. Thanks to the others, especially Jaynie, who are offering such great ES&H so you have the ability to see what you are or may be up against.
I would also encourage AlAnon or counseling with an addictions specialist for yourself. Your post reminded me of a discussion my group had the other night. We did a reading on Step 6, and one of the lines a group member spoke about was something along the lines of recognizing the discomfort in where you are. We talked about sometimes you are not ready to make a change, a decision, whatever, but the fact that you acknowledge that something makes you uncomfortable is the first step in making a change. It may take you awhile, it may come in many forms, but you are on your way there.
From your posts, it seems to me that you know something needs to change, but it seems too big to take it all on. That's okay...a big change is really a series of baby steps. So, what can you do for you today? Can you go to a meeting or make an appointment with a counselor? Can you start thinking about some boundaries for yourself? One of my first boundaries with RAH was that I would not talk with him once he had four beers. Also, I'm sorry to say, but it does not appear you can count on AW for much when it comes to the kids...can you make dinner for them & have an enjoyable meal together? How about reading & learning about detachment? There are lots of good threads on SR for that.
Please take care of yourself and your wonderful children. Thanks to the others, especially Jaynie, who are offering such great ES&H so you have the ability to see what you are or may be up against.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 324
the boundaries thing is interesting - I told her, while she was sober, about how we should have ( or I should have) the ability to have a boundary.... For example, that I would not want to spend evenings with her when she had drunk too much.
She said this sounded like a stupid idea and was akin to punishing her for drinking... So we dropped that!
lol.... I feel like I could write a book on how not to be the spouse of an alcoholic! it wouldn't provide any solutions but would be a list of things that are not worth doing so that others would waste their time on them!
She said this sounded like a stupid idea and was akin to punishing her for drinking... So we dropped that!
lol.... I feel like I could write a book on how not to be the spouse of an alcoholic! it wouldn't provide any solutions but would be a list of things that are not worth doing so that others would waste their time on them!
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Lewis73 
99% sure she see's him.....and he's done the whole "your husband is a toxic trigger" thing with her!
Just so hard - I look at her and she is (or seems) so close to being like she was......I just wish she was worse in a way!
Just so hard - I look at her and she is (or seems) so close to being like she was......I just wish she was worse in a way!
My AW is actually ignoring my 14yr old and hasnt spoken to her in about 2 months! I feel you want her to be "worse in a way" so it would be easier for you to be able to make sane decisions, but you still love her and see all her beauty which just drives you crazy and most importantly helpless... I can only share my experience with you, as I feel I am abit ahead of you (if that makes any sense).
I do know one thing, you need to be strong and be there for your kids. I wasted too much time trying to heal AW at the cost of ignoring my kids needs. Dont make the same mistake...your kids will give you so much love when they see you are there for them.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by Lewis73
the boundaries thing is interesting - I told her, while she was sober, about how we should have ( or I should have) the ability to have a boundary.... For example, that I would not want to spend evenings with her when she had drunk too much.
She said this sounded like a stupid idea and was akin to punishing her for drinking... So we dropped that!
She said this sounded like a stupid idea and was akin to punishing her for drinking... So we dropped that!
Please look up some threads on boundaries - they are for you, to protect you. Whether or not you realize it, you are being effected negatively by her drinking. Setting boundaries & detaching will help lessen the effect on you. Keep posting & reading.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
Just a quick comment from the addiction side.
It can seem completely inexplicable to see an otherwise intelligent, reasonable and sane person keep drinking when they have expressed a desire to quit, and are clearly hurting themselves.
Your wife is in there, somewhere, but right now she is NOT running the show, at all.
She is not thinking about the impact on you, and even the love for her own children is not enough to give her pause.
Sadly, there is NOTHING that you can do to make it better. In fact much of what you try will drag it out and make it last LONGER.
Because many educated professional and intelligent people before her have gone down this path, it is pretty clear that none of those things factor in to why shes behaving in such an illogical manner.
In my opinion, this is the disease component of active addiction.
Focus on yourself and the children. Set up boundaries. Try and stop enabling her.
Sadly, NOTHING can make her stop until it gets bad enough that she gives up absolutely. This could take weeks or years. It might never happen.
Sounds like you are waiting and hoping for change, but its not happening.
Alanon is a great resource. Read codependent no more.
I see many things in your post that appear to be enabling her drinking, and she is manipulating you to keep the status quo.
Best wishes to you.
It can seem completely inexplicable to see an otherwise intelligent, reasonable and sane person keep drinking when they have expressed a desire to quit, and are clearly hurting themselves.
Your wife is in there, somewhere, but right now she is NOT running the show, at all.
She is not thinking about the impact on you, and even the love for her own children is not enough to give her pause.
Sadly, there is NOTHING that you can do to make it better. In fact much of what you try will drag it out and make it last LONGER.
Because many educated professional and intelligent people before her have gone down this path, it is pretty clear that none of those things factor in to why shes behaving in such an illogical manner.
In my opinion, this is the disease component of active addiction.
Focus on yourself and the children. Set up boundaries. Try and stop enabling her.
Sadly, NOTHING can make her stop until it gets bad enough that she gives up absolutely. This could take weeks or years. It might never happen.
Sounds like you are waiting and hoping for change, but its not happening.
Alanon is a great resource. Read codependent no more.
I see many things in your post that appear to be enabling her drinking, and she is manipulating you to keep the status quo.
Best wishes to you.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
Originally Posted by Lewis73
the boundaries thing is interesting - I told her, while she was sober, about how we should have ( or I should have) the ability to have a boundary.... For example, that I would not want to spend evenings with her when she had drunk too much.
She said this sounded like a stupid idea and was akin to punishing her for drinking... So we dropped that!
lol.... I feel like I could write a book on how not to be the spouse of an alcoholic! it wouldn't provide any solutions but would be a list of things that are not worth doing so that others would waste their time on them!
She said this sounded like a stupid idea and was akin to punishing her for drinking... So we dropped that!
lol.... I feel like I could write a book on how not to be the spouse of an alcoholic! it wouldn't provide any solutions but would be a list of things that are not worth doing so that others would waste their time on them!
The answer, of course, is that the ball is in HER COURT. She has the opportunity to decide what is more important, your company and companionship, or sitting alone drinking. Her response will make clear whats going on.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
She is very manipulative. She is only saying what she is saying to tide you over. If her counselor said you are her trigger it is because she is lying through her teeth to her counselor. It sounds as though you are the monetary support. She does not want to change a thing....
You don't have to make some huge decision today. I agree w/the other poster. What can you do today to make this better for YOURSELF and YOUR KIDS? If she wants to stay home and get sauced, let her. Get out of the house tonight. Get your kids out. Make a memory with them. Tighten your bond with them as much as possible because they need you, she is not any stability in their lives. And I also agree, get some support. Go to Alanon, Celebrate Recovery, somewhere. YOU need a support system.
Keep posting, you are not alone! Good Luck and God Bless!
You don't have to make some huge decision today. I agree w/the other poster. What can you do today to make this better for YOURSELF and YOUR KIDS? If she wants to stay home and get sauced, let her. Get out of the house tonight. Get your kids out. Make a memory with them. Tighten your bond with them as much as possible because they need you, she is not any stability in their lives. And I also agree, get some support. Go to Alanon, Celebrate Recovery, somewhere. YOU need a support system.
Keep posting, you are not alone! Good Luck and God Bless!
Magsie
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 26,628
Hi Lewis I was similar to your wife for a lot of years but I never wanted to stop drinking I just knew I should but kept thinking I could control it etc. It came to blows when my husband and I had a massive row which ended in him leaving. He had suggested many times for me to stop drinking but somehow I didn't really hear or listen to him or maybe I just ignored it. When he left I saw myself for the first time ever from not just my view but from his.
I stopped drinking immediately, wether my husband and I would reconcile, which I'm pleased to say we have, but I did it for me.
I don't know how my husband put up with me for these years and I don't know if I would have been able to do the same if our roles were reversed.
I stopped drinking immediately, wether my husband and I would reconcile, which I'm pleased to say we have, but I did it for me.
I don't know how my husband put up with me for these years and I don't know if I would have been able to do the same if our roles were reversed.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
She summed it up by saying that her counsellor was right and that I was destructive to her.
Instead, formulate your own plan.
As far as boundaries go, search SR and remember that boundaries are about YOU.
What is it that YOU will not tolerate. Put it on paper and do not even bother telling her about it, it would only make her quack some more. This is YOUR stuff, your comfort zone. When she crosses that line you have set down for yourself, take action.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 324
I'm on it!
Setting some boundries (and objectives) down on paper tonight.
I turn 40 in 2 weeks (we've been together over 20 years) - just quite scary to turn 40 without her (even if she is "here"...she really isnt, she checked out ages ago)
Setting some boundries (and objectives) down on paper tonight.
I turn 40 in 2 weeks (we've been together over 20 years) - just quite scary to turn 40 without her (even if she is "here"...she really isnt, she checked out ages ago)
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Regarding the children and not understanding how toxic the environment you are choosing to live in.
[QUOTE]In a way.... If she was a classic drunk.... Vomiting all over them! it would be easier for me to say " okay, this is not ideal[QUOTE]
One child has already left, the remaining children do not have a voice, you are their voice, you make decisions for them because the other parent is an active alcoholic and cannot place their best interests and needs above her own. You mirror that with your codependency and inability to get them to a healthy environment because of YOUR own need to need the alcoholic.
Please look into some kind of counseling for those children and yourself. Your wife has clearly shown you over and over again her choice is to continue to drink.
[QUOTE]In a way.... If she was a classic drunk.... Vomiting all over them! it would be easier for me to say " okay, this is not ideal[QUOTE]
One child has already left, the remaining children do not have a voice, you are their voice, you make decisions for them because the other parent is an active alcoholic and cannot place their best interests and needs above her own. You mirror that with your codependency and inability to get them to a healthy environment because of YOUR own need to need the alcoholic.
Please look into some kind of counseling for those children and yourself. Your wife has clearly shown you over and over again her choice is to continue to drink.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
[QUOTE=atalose;4270174]Regarding the children and not understanding how toxic the environment you are choosing to live in.
[QUOTE]In a way.... If she was a classic drunk.... Vomiting all over them! it would be easier for me to say " okay, this is not ideal
One child has already left, the remaining children do not have a voice, you are their voice, you make decisions for them because the other parent is an active alcoholic and cannot place their best interests and needs above her own. You mirror that with your codependency and inability to get them to a healthy environment because of YOUR own need to need the alcoholic.
Please look into some kind of counseling for those children and yourself. Your wife has clearly shown you over and over again her choice is to continue to drink. The happiest days of my life were the two times I left my hometown and lived far away from my AM. Unfortunately, neither time was I prepared to be an adult and take care of myself, because my family spent years orbiting AM and participating in the chaos. It's been three tees since I left home the second time, and I'm FINALLY starting to learn to be a responsible adult. I'm 30 years old, if that tells you anything. I am determined for my children to grow up in a healthy home, because I have the power to provide that for them. Nobody did it for me, and that is the biggest part of my recovery with which I am struggling.
[QUOTE]In a way.... If she was a classic drunk.... Vomiting all over them! it would be easier for me to say " okay, this is not ideal
One child has already left, the remaining children do not have a voice, you are their voice, you make decisions for them because the other parent is an active alcoholic and cannot place their best interests and needs above her own. You mirror that with your codependency and inability to get them to a healthy environment because of YOUR own need to need the alcoholic.
Please look into some kind of counseling for those children and yourself. Your wife has clearly shown you over and over again her choice is to continue to drink.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
So much great shared experience in this thread, wow.
Lewis - I'm with Hammer on the money thing. AH drank us through the good times right into bad and yes, I was never so happy as when I cut him off from all credit & banking accts in my name or jointly held. He managed to rack up considerable debt on his own beyond that and {crosses fingers} so far I'm managed to stay separated from it. I was the only one bringing in money at the time so I simply opened individual accts at a different bank than where we held a jt. acct. I took away his credit card & yes it peeved him off but it was just too freaking bad. It was MY job to keep a roof over DD's head, I wish I'd stood up for myself financially much sooner, before I had to rebuild losses. Taking away his financial sources forced him to tackle it on his own & yes, he progressed in his addiction but he was doing that anyway - I was just cushioning his fall. I can see that now, but I didn't clearly see it then.
I also 2nd that as the sober parent a lot falls on us to be the voice for our kids & that when things aren't big & obvious it's easy to ignore the subtle, but constant, intensification of living in that pressure cooker world built on appearances & addiction.
It sounds like you are standing right at the edge of the cliff of awareness, where even though you are fully aware of the details that make up your life, your perception has changed just a degree or 2 enough to change the way you view them now.
Good luck with your boundary setting, that can be challenging to identify & verbalize. Search out old threads on this forum for some reading on that & detachment if you have time, there's been a lot of great info shared.
Lewis - I'm with Hammer on the money thing. AH drank us through the good times right into bad and yes, I was never so happy as when I cut him off from all credit & banking accts in my name or jointly held. He managed to rack up considerable debt on his own beyond that and {crosses fingers} so far I'm managed to stay separated from it. I was the only one bringing in money at the time so I simply opened individual accts at a different bank than where we held a jt. acct. I took away his credit card & yes it peeved him off but it was just too freaking bad. It was MY job to keep a roof over DD's head, I wish I'd stood up for myself financially much sooner, before I had to rebuild losses. Taking away his financial sources forced him to tackle it on his own & yes, he progressed in his addiction but he was doing that anyway - I was just cushioning his fall. I can see that now, but I didn't clearly see it then.
I also 2nd that as the sober parent a lot falls on us to be the voice for our kids & that when things aren't big & obvious it's easy to ignore the subtle, but constant, intensification of living in that pressure cooker world built on appearances & addiction.
It sounds like you are standing right at the edge of the cliff of awareness, where even though you are fully aware of the details that make up your life, your perception has changed just a degree or 2 enough to change the way you view them now.
Good luck with your boundary setting, that can be challenging to identify & verbalize. Search out old threads on this forum for some reading on that & detachment if you have time, there's been a lot of great info shared.
My brain is trying to kill me
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palo Alto, ca
Posts: 401
Plain and Simple. She. IS. An. Alcoholic. Do your homework, and if you do, you'll know what you, and she, needs to do. I've been there, done that. And yes, it is that simple.
Four more simple thins:
Alcoholics Anonymous
Al-anon
Sobriety
Recovery
Welcome to SR; Best Wishes
Four more simple thins:
Alcoholics Anonymous
Al-anon
Sobriety
Recovery
Welcome to SR; Best Wishes
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 199
I agree with jaynie04 above. Come up with your own plan and present it to her. Draw some boundaries. Will she get really angry? Of course she will. She's an alcoholic. When my adult alcoholic son was drinking and in college we came up with a plan and presented it to him. There were very clear boundaries and we meant it when we said that there would be consequences if he crossed them. So far, so good. Sober for a year. But he'd hit his bottom and was asking for help. He was open to any help to get sober. I'm wondering if your wife has really hit that yet. And we'd hit our bottom too. We were willing to do whatever it took to help him and help ourselves get better. We were enablers and it was difficult to change old habits. But we did and our lives are better for it. Try to get to an AlAnon meeting.
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