Am I in denial?
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
Am I in denial?
Hi, I'm new. I'm not really sure where to start. I classify my husband as a problem drinker. His parents divorced when he was 2 and he was raised by his father who is a functional alcoholic (holds down a steady job but drinks a considerable amount of budweiser every single day/carries a cooler with him, etc.)
DH & I have been together for 25 yrs. He does not drink every day. He frequently goes several days without drinking and has stopped drinking altogether for 6 months-1 yr three times during our marriage. The first several years of our marriage were the worst. DH frequently drank/drove, stayed out all night drinking with my brother-in-law, etc. Now, he mostly just drinks at home. He's always been a beer drinker (other than the occasional mixed drinks on special occasions, etc.) A few months ago, he started drinking vodka in addition to the beer. When I'd mention it, dh would just say it's a different kind of drink like dr pepper is different from coke, etc. He was drinking approximately a fifth/week plus a couple bottles of beer.
Then, about a month ago, he & 15 yr ds had a verbal altercation in the car. DS feels strongly that dh would have hit him had he not been driving. He has been living with my parents since, and refuses to come home. About a week after that altercation, dh stopped drinking vodka after I said something yet again about the vodka. He seems to have switched back to beer (no more vodka in the fridge.) I admit that I wonder if he's hiding it from me. He's never done that before but there have been a couple times recently when I came home & could tell he was drinking (once when he was notably drunk) and there were NO beer bottles around. That's out of character for dh - either he or I usually throw them away the next day.
DS's counselor says that dh is an alcoholic and that he needs to attend AA for 3 months before ds should come home. DH never misses work due to drinking, he never drinks in the mornings, he has quit multiple times with no helo, and during the past year has probably averaged between 10-20 or so drinks/week. It's definitely a problem but does he really need AA?? Am I in denial? I readily admit that I'm not a good judge since I come from a family of drinkers (dad drank 4-6 beers most nights growing up but ran/runs a successful business, brother-in-laws all drink, most men in my family drink.)
DH has reluctantly agreed to marriage and family counseling because he wants ds home. He's had one individual session and we've had one together (dh & I.) The focus of that session was communication and parenting without getting angry. DS's counselor says the focus just needs to be quitting drinking at this point.
Any advice is appreciated.
DH & I have been together for 25 yrs. He does not drink every day. He frequently goes several days without drinking and has stopped drinking altogether for 6 months-1 yr three times during our marriage. The first several years of our marriage were the worst. DH frequently drank/drove, stayed out all night drinking with my brother-in-law, etc. Now, he mostly just drinks at home. He's always been a beer drinker (other than the occasional mixed drinks on special occasions, etc.) A few months ago, he started drinking vodka in addition to the beer. When I'd mention it, dh would just say it's a different kind of drink like dr pepper is different from coke, etc. He was drinking approximately a fifth/week plus a couple bottles of beer.
Then, about a month ago, he & 15 yr ds had a verbal altercation in the car. DS feels strongly that dh would have hit him had he not been driving. He has been living with my parents since, and refuses to come home. About a week after that altercation, dh stopped drinking vodka after I said something yet again about the vodka. He seems to have switched back to beer (no more vodka in the fridge.) I admit that I wonder if he's hiding it from me. He's never done that before but there have been a couple times recently when I came home & could tell he was drinking (once when he was notably drunk) and there were NO beer bottles around. That's out of character for dh - either he or I usually throw them away the next day.
DS's counselor says that dh is an alcoholic and that he needs to attend AA for 3 months before ds should come home. DH never misses work due to drinking, he never drinks in the mornings, he has quit multiple times with no helo, and during the past year has probably averaged between 10-20 or so drinks/week. It's definitely a problem but does he really need AA?? Am I in denial? I readily admit that I'm not a good judge since I come from a family of drinkers (dad drank 4-6 beers most nights growing up but ran/runs a successful business, brother-in-laws all drink, most men in my family drink.)
DH has reluctantly agreed to marriage and family counseling because he wants ds home. He's had one individual session and we've had one together (dh & I.) The focus of that session was communication and parenting without getting angry. DS's counselor says the focus just needs to be quitting drinking at this point.
Any advice is appreciated.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne Australia.
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Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear your plight.
AA membership only requires a desire to stop drinking.
Does your husband see his drinking as damaging his and family well being?
Degrees of drinking as it relates to alcoholism is a tricky question and IMO even so called moderate drinking can be damaging to health and mind in some instances.
Unless your husband believes he has a problem it seems highly unlikely he would try AA or any other non drinking organization.
There is also alanon which serves the needs of those close to problem drinkers.
AA membership only requires a desire to stop drinking.
Does your husband see his drinking as damaging his and family well being?
Degrees of drinking as it relates to alcoholism is a tricky question and IMO even so called moderate drinking can be damaging to health and mind in some instances.
Unless your husband believes he has a problem it seems highly unlikely he would try AA or any other non drinking organization.
There is also alanon which serves the needs of those close to problem drinkers.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Hi & welcome,
We're encouraged not to give advice here -- because everyone needs to take their own time to sort of come to terms with how to handle living with an addict, or choose not to.
But here's what I see in your post, to summarize:
Your son has chosen to leave your home because he cannot stand being around your husband. Your CHILD has chosen to not live with you because he is frightened of your husband. You are arguing with the opinion of the counselor who is trying to help your son, defending your husband's right to continue behaving the way he's behaving, despite the fact that it is hurting your child.
I would just read that paragraph a couple of times and then sit down and consider what it means when you prioritize a spouse over your own child.
And if that sounds harsh, I will tell you this: I spent YEARS prioritizing the needs of my alcoholic husband over those of my children. And my own needs. Today, I have to live with the guilt of that because I didn't have the backbone to stand up for my children when they needed me. I have a lot of repair work to do on my relationships with them. I was the only responsible adult they had in their life, and I FAILED them.
I failed them because I, too, was affected by the family disease of alcoholism. I, too, was broken and hurt by it. I did what I could when I was able to.
So here's my advice -- which I'm not supposed to give:
1) Educate yourself on what alcoholism is. There are many sources in the "stickies" up top. Just because he's not passed out under a bridge doesn't mean he's not an alcoholic. Mine? Pulled in six figures and wore an Italian wool suit to work every day. Yup.
2) Find help for YOURSELF. Your post is all about HIM. You're completely and utterly swallowed up. I don't know where you are. Who you are. What you like doing. Do you? I know I lost myself completely and basically became the referee who tried to make sure there was no fighting in the house. Al-Anon is a great (free) resource; a therapist well-versed in addiction is also a good idea.
3) Continue hanging out here. People here made me so mad when I first got here. They didn't understand that MY alcoholic was DIFFERENT. They gave me an earful of truths I didn't want to hear. I left and came back and left and came back and left and came back. There are straight shooters here who will p*$$ you off but help you immensely.
And please go hug your son and tell him you love him. I have a kid about the same age and I know it's hell to just BE that age. Add in an alcoholic father and it's, well, double hell.
And a big hug for you, too. I know how lonely it is where you are right now.
We're encouraged not to give advice here -- because everyone needs to take their own time to sort of come to terms with how to handle living with an addict, or choose not to.
But here's what I see in your post, to summarize:
Your son has chosen to leave your home because he cannot stand being around your husband. Your CHILD has chosen to not live with you because he is frightened of your husband. You are arguing with the opinion of the counselor who is trying to help your son, defending your husband's right to continue behaving the way he's behaving, despite the fact that it is hurting your child.
I would just read that paragraph a couple of times and then sit down and consider what it means when you prioritize a spouse over your own child.
And if that sounds harsh, I will tell you this: I spent YEARS prioritizing the needs of my alcoholic husband over those of my children. And my own needs. Today, I have to live with the guilt of that because I didn't have the backbone to stand up for my children when they needed me. I have a lot of repair work to do on my relationships with them. I was the only responsible adult they had in their life, and I FAILED them.
I failed them because I, too, was affected by the family disease of alcoholism. I, too, was broken and hurt by it. I did what I could when I was able to.
So here's my advice -- which I'm not supposed to give:
1) Educate yourself on what alcoholism is. There are many sources in the "stickies" up top. Just because he's not passed out under a bridge doesn't mean he's not an alcoholic. Mine? Pulled in six figures and wore an Italian wool suit to work every day. Yup.
2) Find help for YOURSELF. Your post is all about HIM. You're completely and utterly swallowed up. I don't know where you are. Who you are. What you like doing. Do you? I know I lost myself completely and basically became the referee who tried to make sure there was no fighting in the house. Al-Anon is a great (free) resource; a therapist well-versed in addiction is also a good idea.
3) Continue hanging out here. People here made me so mad when I first got here. They didn't understand that MY alcoholic was DIFFERENT. They gave me an earful of truths I didn't want to hear. I left and came back and left and came back and left and came back. There are straight shooters here who will p*$$ you off but help you immensely.
And please go hug your son and tell him you love him. I have a kid about the same age and I know it's hell to just BE that age. Add in an alcoholic father and it's, well, double hell.
And a big hug for you, too. I know how lonely it is where you are right now.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
No, he doesn't think it's a problem. Honestly, I'm not really sure counseling will even work because he's only doing it to get ds home. DH is definitely depressed. He has some abusive behaviors that are definitely more noticeable when he's drinking as opposed to when he abstains for months. It's hard for me to separate whether those behaviors are caused by the drinking, his childhood (absent mother, drunk/neglectful father, and verbally abusive stepmother), current circumstances (dh was laid off 3 yrs ago and has been working a low paying job for the past year & we are struggling financially. He also recently quit college 6 months before he would have graduated with his BS. He'd failed his last two classes after having high grades previously.)
He honestly shouldn't be drinking because he's had elevated liver enzymes for 10+ yrs. That's the reason he quit drinking the first time.
He honestly shouldn't be drinking because he's had elevated liver enzymes for 10+ yrs. That's the reason he quit drinking the first time.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
Originally Posted by lillamy 
Hi & welcome,
Your son has chosen to leave your home because he cannot stand being around your husband. Your CHILD has chosen to not live with you because he is frightened of your husband. You are arguing with the opinion of the counselor who is trying to help your son, defending your husband's right to continue behaving the way he's behaving, despite the fact that it is hurting your child.
Your son has chosen to leave your home because he cannot stand being around your husband. Your CHILD has chosen to not live with you because he is frightened of your husband. You are arguing with the opinion of the counselor who is trying to help your son, defending your husband's right to continue behaving the way he's behaving, despite the fact that it is hurting your child.
Thank you for your honesty.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Welcome, JustAGirl. Denial is a funny phenomenon...it protects us but can also inhibit us from personal growth.
For an alcoholic, it protects the addiction and the physical need for alcohol by minimizing everything and blaming others.
For us loved ones, it keeps us from having to come to grips with reality in one fell swoop. Instead, as you are doing, we can take it in a little at a time.
Lillamy has excellent suggestions above, so I will simply say ditto to her post. And I can also say with experience here that vodka made my XAH (ex alcoholic husband) ANGRY. Jack Daniels mellowed him out and made him melancholy. Gin made him charismatic. But vodka - katybar the doors! I grew to recognize a vodka night and stay out of his way as best I could.
Keep reading, keep posting, and keep coming back!
~T
For an alcoholic, it protects the addiction and the physical need for alcohol by minimizing everything and blaming others.
For us loved ones, it keeps us from having to come to grips with reality in one fell swoop. Instead, as you are doing, we can take it in a little at a time.
Lillamy has excellent suggestions above, so I will simply say ditto to her post. And I can also say with experience here that vodka made my XAH (ex alcoholic husband) ANGRY. Jack Daniels mellowed him out and made him melancholy. Gin made him charismatic. But vodka - katybar the doors! I grew to recognize a vodka night and stay out of his way as best I could.
Keep reading, keep posting, and keep coming back!
~T
God's Kid
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,820
Have you started attending al anon meetings?
Al anon is for family and friends of alcoholics.
You may find some help there.
I've been attending for 10 years now, I think it's a great program.
What I would say is it really makes no difference if your husband is an alcoholic or not, as there is not anything you can do about it.
But I have found great parenting advice in al anon though, especially for raising teenagers which was not a skill I had.
In al anon we don't sit around and discuss the alcoholic at great lengths but rather focus on ourselves and how we can improve our own lives which includes the relationships we have with our children.
Al anon is for family and friends of alcoholics.
You may find some help there.
I've been attending for 10 years now, I think it's a great program.
What I would say is it really makes no difference if your husband is an alcoholic or not, as there is not anything you can do about it.
But I have found great parenting advice in al anon though, especially for raising teenagers which was not a skill I had.
In al anon we don't sit around and discuss the alcoholic at great lengths but rather focus on ourselves and how we can improve our own lives which includes the relationships we have with our children.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
Welcome, JustAGirl.
I ditto lillamy too.
I've heard a lot of different explanations for who is or is not an alcoholic. The best I've heard (and most objective, imo) was if someone's drinking is effecting three or more areas of their life then they are an alcoholic. In my RAH's case, it was financial, relationships, and employment. In our case, the effects were not extreme, but they were out of character for his non-drinking self.
From what you have posted, your AH's drinking has effected his relationships, health, & financial situation. Frankly, the damage done to his relationship with your child is enough to say its a problem.
I agree with reading the stickies & Al-Anon. Also, check out Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie.
Glad you found us...keep reading & posting.
I ditto lillamy too.
I've heard a lot of different explanations for who is or is not an alcoholic. The best I've heard (and most objective, imo) was if someone's drinking is effecting three or more areas of their life then they are an alcoholic. In my RAH's case, it was financial, relationships, and employment. In our case, the effects were not extreme, but they were out of character for his non-drinking self.
From what you have posted, your AH's drinking has effected his relationships, health, & financial situation. Frankly, the damage done to his relationship with your child is enough to say its a problem.
I agree with reading the stickies & Al-Anon. Also, check out Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie.
Glad you found us...keep reading & posting.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
There is no set pattern of drinking that defines an alcoholic. Not every A needs to drink every day. My brother binges. He can go for weeks sober..then drink every day for weeks. Some A's can go all day without drinking, but drink at home every night. Others can appear normal on a work day, only to drink throughout the weekend. Bottom line, it's not the pattern.
His drinking is affecting relationships. His son doesn't want to be around him. You sense he is hiding his drinking. A counselor senses there is an alcoholism issue. He is changing up his DOC...an attempt to control. He is "reluctantly" going to counseling.
YES. He really needs AA. He has a powerful relationship with alcohol, it is affecting his family. YES...you need AlAnon. Learn about this disease and get the support and wisdom that those meetings offer. Your son is old enough for Alateen. He has already recognized the problem and its affect on him. I am willing to bet he would benefit greatly from the peer support.
I give your young son a lot of credit for setting boundaries. Many adults can't do it. He recognizes the problem, and does not want to be part of it. BIG hugs to him. Please get him into Alateen.
His drinking is affecting relationships. His son doesn't want to be around him. You sense he is hiding his drinking. A counselor senses there is an alcoholism issue. He is changing up his DOC...an attempt to control. He is "reluctantly" going to counseling.
YES. He really needs AA. He has a powerful relationship with alcohol, it is affecting his family. YES...you need AlAnon. Learn about this disease and get the support and wisdom that those meetings offer. Your son is old enough for Alateen. He has already recognized the problem and its affect on him. I am willing to bet he would benefit greatly from the peer support.
I give your young son a lot of credit for setting boundaries. Many adults can't do it. He recognizes the problem, and does not want to be part of it. BIG hugs to him. Please get him into Alateen.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 9,029
This is just me but I am thinking that there is a lot more turmoil going on than you are aware of or admitting. I am thinking that if this were a once in a lifetime aberration between your 15 yo son and husband your son would not still be at your parents. Kids and people in general are quite forgiving, especially when it comes to a parent or spouse. they do not immediately flee to a safe haven. Which indicates that your son has probably been uncomfortable with your husband for some time. My husband is an alcoholic. He raises his voice to the kids regularly (although, I have to say that even sober he is obnoxiously loud) and when he does I can see my son flinch away in fear of my husband.
Talk to your son. He might talk to you although I have learned that boys tend to clam up about this stuff. I would say that he is and has been afraid for a bit.
Talk to your son. He might talk to you although I have learned that boys tend to clam up about this stuff. I would say that he is and has been afraid for a bit.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
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An alcoholic does not have to drink every day to be an alcoholic. I am an alcoholic. My husband is an alcoholic. Did we drink every day? No. Did our drinking cause problems in our lives? Yes. I would recommend reading the threads in the SR alcoholism forums and their stickies to learn what alcoholism is. As you know from the in laws you can be a successful alcoholic. It isn't always the homeless bum in the gutter. I have a graduate degree, have had the same job forever, have two kids, a house, two cats and a tankful of fish. But the liquor and beer is liquor can kick your butt, whether it is everyday or not.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 214
Your son might find benefit in Alateen. Al Anon can help you learn what alcoholism and problem drinking's effects are on your family, and how to create emotional health and serenity in your own life, regardless of your husband's drinking.
My thoughts are with you and your son.
My thoughts are with you and your son.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by JustAGirl1971
It's hard for me to separate whether those behaviors are caused by the drinking, his childhood (absent mother, drunk/neglectful father, and verbally abusive stepmother), current circumstances (dh was laid off 3 yrs ago and has been working a low paying job for the past year & we are struggling financially.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Hi Justa girl, it might be worth raising your husband's drinking in family therapy. If you get a strident or explosive reaction, it will probably indicate that he's still drinking heavily. I tend to think you're right about the secret drinking, and that's a BAD sign for the progression of the disease. The thing is, if he isn't wiling to face it honestly, and admit he has a problem, all the rest is futile.
You've had lots of great responses here; that's just one point that occurred to me.
You've had lots of great responses here; that's just one point that occurred to me.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
Thank you, everyone for your responses, suggestions, and support. I am currently reading Codependent No More and finding it really helpful (thank you for the rec, Carryon.) I am definitely a "fixer" and frequently find myself giving out unsolicited, "helpful" advice that my family finds not so helpful and refers to as nagging, lol. I'm definitely codependent & like a true codependent, have a list of people I'd like to recommend the book to, lol. I have been working on active listening as opposed to jumping in & "helping." I keep reminding myself to seek to be quick to listen, slow to speak.
Since I love to read, our counselor suggested The Road Less Traveled by Scott Peck and ds's counselor suggested Perfect Daughters (for me & dd) and Silent Son for me and the boys. Those will all be my next reads.
I did tell dh last night what ds's counselor said about quitting drinking. Dh was very calm. He, of course, denied that his drinking was an issue. He said that if anything, the drinking helps calm him, make him more passive, and maintain peace in our home. He sees no benefit in giving up something that is not the real issue (since the real issue is our marital problems.) I'm beginning to wonder whether it even matters what the "real problem" is. We have built up so many barriers between us and I'm not sure they can be removed. I don't trust him. Everytime I see him drinking a soda out of a glass, I wonder if it has vodka in it. I feel like I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine whether he's hiding his drinking.
Ds's counselor has been suggesting Ala-non for a while. I've looked up the meeting schedule many times, made tentative plans to attend, but never followed through. Unfortunately, there isn't an Alateen program in our city. Ds's counselor suggested that the kids and I all attend an ACOA meeting together. Ds is not interested, dd is probably not mature enough (13), and oldest ds thinks the alcohol abuse is just a symptom of underlying, untreated mental illness so is not sure ACOA will be beneficial to him. I know, that doesn't stop me from going.
Since I love to read, our counselor suggested The Road Less Traveled by Scott Peck and ds's counselor suggested Perfect Daughters (for me & dd) and Silent Son for me and the boys. Those will all be my next reads.
I did tell dh last night what ds's counselor said about quitting drinking. Dh was very calm. He, of course, denied that his drinking was an issue. He said that if anything, the drinking helps calm him, make him more passive, and maintain peace in our home. He sees no benefit in giving up something that is not the real issue (since the real issue is our marital problems.) I'm beginning to wonder whether it even matters what the "real problem" is. We have built up so many barriers between us and I'm not sure they can be removed. I don't trust him. Everytime I see him drinking a soda out of a glass, I wonder if it has vodka in it. I feel like I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine whether he's hiding his drinking.
Ds's counselor has been suggesting Ala-non for a while. I've looked up the meeting schedule many times, made tentative plans to attend, but never followed through. Unfortunately, there isn't an Alateen program in our city. Ds's counselor suggested that the kids and I all attend an ACOA meeting together. Ds is not interested, dd is probably not mature enough (13), and oldest ds thinks the alcohol abuse is just a symptom of underlying, untreated mental illness so is not sure ACOA will be beneficial to him. I know, that doesn't stop me from going.
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