need some perspective please on a RAH and marriage
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need some perspective please on a RAH and marriage
this weekend I went on a trip with a large group of friends - including some I haven't seen in about a year.
In one couple, the husband has stopped drinking and started recovery and going to AA and having a sponsor and working his steps about 6 months ago.
The wife was telling that to us in a big group. Then she went on to say that while he seems to be doing great, she is angry and resentful and feels guilty and is irritated with this new, more alert version of him.
She said "I am just trying to get the last kid out of the house and then I am done. I can't do it anymore. I just can't handle it."
I often think that I am kind of lucky in that my XAH had NO interest in recovery or quitting and was mean and unsupportive - drunk and sober.
I know that starting all over might have taken more from me than just surviving did.
Can any of you help me sympathize with her? Mostly I am sad for her and her A and their family. She has told him none of this but shared with a large group of his friends.
What must it be like for her?
In one couple, the husband has stopped drinking and started recovery and going to AA and having a sponsor and working his steps about 6 months ago.
The wife was telling that to us in a big group. Then she went on to say that while he seems to be doing great, she is angry and resentful and feels guilty and is irritated with this new, more alert version of him.
She said "I am just trying to get the last kid out of the house and then I am done. I can't do it anymore. I just can't handle it."
I often think that I am kind of lucky in that my XAH had NO interest in recovery or quitting and was mean and unsupportive - drunk and sober.
I know that starting all over might have taken more from me than just surviving did.
Can any of you help me sympathize with her? Mostly I am sad for her and her A and their family. She has told him none of this but shared with a large group of his friends.
What must it be like for her?
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Stella, has this woman done any sort of recovery for herself? Alanon?
It's often posted here that just removing the alcohol doesn't solve all the problems, and that's unfortunately true, I believe. I certainly don't know what other issues there might be in this marriage, and if she's truly done, then maybe it doesn't even matter.
What's hard to admit is that, as the partner of the A, we have had some part in the craziness also and we have our own issues to deal with, our own wounds to heal. I'm imagining that she's still stuck in the resentments and unhealthy ways of thinking and behaving that she developed while living with an active A.
I don't think it can be a very good place to be.
Don't know if you know her well enough to suggest Alanon, or if you think she would perhaps be interested in checking out SR? If she seemed receptive at all, it might help her start to get a handle on her own life, whether with or without her RAH.
It's often posted here that just removing the alcohol doesn't solve all the problems, and that's unfortunately true, I believe. I certainly don't know what other issues there might be in this marriage, and if she's truly done, then maybe it doesn't even matter.
What's hard to admit is that, as the partner of the A, we have had some part in the craziness also and we have our own issues to deal with, our own wounds to heal. I'm imagining that she's still stuck in the resentments and unhealthy ways of thinking and behaving that she developed while living with an active A.
I don't think it can be a very good place to be.
Don't know if you know her well enough to suggest Alanon, or if you think she would perhaps be interested in checking out SR? If she seemed receptive at all, it might help her start to get a handle on her own life, whether with or without her RAH.
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Location: Florida
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I can relate to her Stella, and it's really difficult for me to articulate it all at times.
6 months sounds like such a long time to be in recovery & working changes into your life but in reality at 6 months I was only just starting to feel my own rage & resentments & exhaustion at the whole situation. And I felt entitled to them; I had earned every bit of that heartache & I wanted answers & apologies. I wanted him to know how badly it hurt to have the person you trusted the most betray you, I was vengeful for a while... and how dare he now have this positive attitude, full of snappy AA quotes & glass half-full thinking while I was just starting to feel the edges of the white-hot rage I had buried inside.
For me things stayed very much the same for the first (almost) year of his recovery especially since I hadn't yet understood how to embrace my own (or understand how badly it was needed). Yes, he was no longer drinking, but instead of being locked away in bars & spending his time with other A's he was locked away in daily AA meetings & sharing all the details of his drinking problem with a bunch of strangers which I found isolating & a bit insulting - here I was the person MOST affected by his poor decisions & I wasn't even privy to understanding how or why we got to this point. I felt abandoned by him for his alcoholism at first, and then abandoned for recovery/AA after.
Even though our area has literally about 100+ AA meetings each month, Al-Anon meetings are very few & far between & never during times I could actually attend. And when I did I felt such a disconnect - there seemed so little information about moving forward with a RA, more of the topics speak to supporting those with active A's or those that chose to leave. I wasn't finding anything relevent to MY life or challenges.
I was still having to hold down the roles of being both Mom & Dad to our DD since he was only able to concentrate on his recovery. I still went to work every day to a job I only half-liked and I still struggled with the financial fallout he had created in our lives. I was the one searching for solutions, assistance, debt consolidations, etc. I was forced to look at the Big Picture & he was living One Day at a Time. Nothing really changed for me as quickly as I expected. No one in my circle really understands addiction so even though I had a few shoulders to lean on, they couldn't really understand anything that I was going through. And I really didn't want to run around announcing how wonderful his recovery was going since I essentially knew nothing about it and didn't want to look like the fool if/when he relapsed.
I was never so happy as I was the day I googled and found SR. I learned SO MUCH about things I had no understanding of - resentments, detachment, the chemistry of addiction, the physiological changes happening in his body during his detox, how very not unique our situation was, etc. That's when things changed for me - that's when I started to see my own recovery needs more clearly. That's when I was able to better separate Me from Him & start handling things with a Me-First attitude.
There was also the element of feeling like I would NEVER be done supporting him..... while my own support seemed lesser both in volume & intensity. Some days the "issues" in my mind got so tangled up that I just wanted to be free from all of it & I thought about leaving more AFTER he sought recovery than I ever did before. I wasn't sure we'd ever be on the same page again.
6 months sounds like such a long time to be in recovery & working changes into your life but in reality at 6 months I was only just starting to feel my own rage & resentments & exhaustion at the whole situation. And I felt entitled to them; I had earned every bit of that heartache & I wanted answers & apologies. I wanted him to know how badly it hurt to have the person you trusted the most betray you, I was vengeful for a while... and how dare he now have this positive attitude, full of snappy AA quotes & glass half-full thinking while I was just starting to feel the edges of the white-hot rage I had buried inside.
For me things stayed very much the same for the first (almost) year of his recovery especially since I hadn't yet understood how to embrace my own (or understand how badly it was needed). Yes, he was no longer drinking, but instead of being locked away in bars & spending his time with other A's he was locked away in daily AA meetings & sharing all the details of his drinking problem with a bunch of strangers which I found isolating & a bit insulting - here I was the person MOST affected by his poor decisions & I wasn't even privy to understanding how or why we got to this point. I felt abandoned by him for his alcoholism at first, and then abandoned for recovery/AA after.
Even though our area has literally about 100+ AA meetings each month, Al-Anon meetings are very few & far between & never during times I could actually attend. And when I did I felt such a disconnect - there seemed so little information about moving forward with a RA, more of the topics speak to supporting those with active A's or those that chose to leave. I wasn't finding anything relevent to MY life or challenges.
I was still having to hold down the roles of being both Mom & Dad to our DD since he was only able to concentrate on his recovery. I still went to work every day to a job I only half-liked and I still struggled with the financial fallout he had created in our lives. I was the one searching for solutions, assistance, debt consolidations, etc. I was forced to look at the Big Picture & he was living One Day at a Time. Nothing really changed for me as quickly as I expected. No one in my circle really understands addiction so even though I had a few shoulders to lean on, they couldn't really understand anything that I was going through. And I really didn't want to run around announcing how wonderful his recovery was going since I essentially knew nothing about it and didn't want to look like the fool if/when he relapsed.
I was never so happy as I was the day I googled and found SR. I learned SO MUCH about things I had no understanding of - resentments, detachment, the chemistry of addiction, the physiological changes happening in his body during his detox, how very not unique our situation was, etc. That's when things changed for me - that's when I started to see my own recovery needs more clearly. That's when I was able to better separate Me from Him & start handling things with a Me-First attitude.
There was also the element of feeling like I would NEVER be done supporting him..... while my own support seemed lesser both in volume & intensity. Some days the "issues" in my mind got so tangled up that I just wanted to be free from all of it & I thought about leaving more AFTER he sought recovery than I ever did before. I wasn't sure we'd ever be on the same page again.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FL
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Originally Posted by FireSprite 
I can relate to her Stella, and it's really difficult for me to articulate it all at times.
For me things stayed very much the same for the first (almost) year of his recovery especially since I hadn't yet understood how to embrace my own (or understand how badly it was needed). Yes, he was no longer drinking, but instead of being locked away in bars & spending his time with other A's he was locked away in daily AA meetings & sharing all the details of his drinking problem with a bunch of strangers which I found isolating & a bit insulting - here I was the person MOST affected by his poor decisions & I wasn't even privy to understanding how or why we got to this point. I felt abandoned by him for his alcoholism at first, and then abandoned for recovery/AA after.
Even though our area has literally about 100+ AA meetings each month, Al-Anon meetings are very few & far between & never during times I could actually attend. And when I did I felt such a disconnect - there seemed so little information about moving forward with a RA, more of the topics speak to supporting those with active A's or those that chose to leave. I wasn't finding anything relevent to MY life or challenges.
I was still having to hold down the roles of being both Mom & Dad to our DD since he was only able to concentrate on his recovery. I still went to work every day to a job I only half-liked and I still struggled with the financial fallout he had created in our lives. I was the one searching for solutions, assistance, debt consolidations, etc. I was forced to look at the Big Picture & he was living One Day at a Time. Nothing really changed for me as quickly as I expected. No one in my circle really understands addiction so even though I had a few shoulders to lean on, they couldn't really understand anything that I was going through. And I really didn't want to run around announcing how wonderful his recovery was going since I essentially knew nothing about it and didn't want to look like the fool if/when he relapsed.
I was never so happy as I was the day I googled and found SR. I learned SO MUCH about things I had no understanding of - resentments, detachment, the chemistry of addiction, the physiological changes happening in his body during his detox, how very not unique our situation was, etc. That's when things changed for me - that's when I started to see my own recovery needs more clearly. That's when I was able to better separate Me from Him & start handling things with a Me-First attitude.
For me things stayed very much the same for the first (almost) year of his recovery especially since I hadn't yet understood how to embrace my own (or understand how badly it was needed). Yes, he was no longer drinking, but instead of being locked away in bars & spending his time with other A's he was locked away in daily AA meetings & sharing all the details of his drinking problem with a bunch of strangers which I found isolating & a bit insulting - here I was the person MOST affected by his poor decisions & I wasn't even privy to understanding how or why we got to this point. I felt abandoned by him for his alcoholism at first, and then abandoned for recovery/AA after.
Even though our area has literally about 100+ AA meetings each month, Al-Anon meetings are very few & far between & never during times I could actually attend. And when I did I felt such a disconnect - there seemed so little information about moving forward with a RA, more of the topics speak to supporting those with active A's or those that chose to leave. I wasn't finding anything relevent to MY life or challenges.
I was still having to hold down the roles of being both Mom & Dad to our DD since he was only able to concentrate on his recovery. I still went to work every day to a job I only half-liked and I still struggled with the financial fallout he had created in our lives. I was the one searching for solutions, assistance, debt consolidations, etc. I was forced to look at the Big Picture & he was living One Day at a Time. Nothing really changed for me as quickly as I expected. No one in my circle really understands addiction so even though I had a few shoulders to lean on, they couldn't really understand anything that I was going through. And I really didn't want to run around announcing how wonderful his recovery was going since I essentially knew nothing about it and didn't want to look like the fool if/when he relapsed.
I was never so happy as I was the day I googled and found SR. I learned SO MUCH about things I had no understanding of - resentments, detachment, the chemistry of addiction, the physiological changes happening in his body during his detox, how very not unique our situation was, etc. That's when things changed for me - that's when I started to see my own recovery needs more clearly. That's when I was able to better separate Me from Him & start handling things with a Me-First attitude.
So I sympathize with her - it was heartbreaking to see all the support my husband received after detoxing and losing his job, making it so I had to work while 7 months pregnant, then with a newborn, all while he sat at home on his butt "enjoying his break."
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Six months can be a low point.
For TMI, here is where things were with us . . .
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-me-well.html
Not saying that 10 months (now, for us) is a whole lot better.
BUT -- I AM!
Hopefully your friend will be, also.
For TMI, here is where things were with us . . .
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t-me-well.html
Not saying that 10 months (now, for us) is a whole lot better.
BUT -- I AM!
Hopefully your friend will be, also.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 380
For me, I am just tired. Tired of my life revolving around his drinking and now around his NOT drinking. I am tired of doing it all by myself (responsibilities of "being the only adult" in the relationship and all that goes along with it). I am almost to the point of your friend. To the point that I have researched housing and preparing to meet with an attorney. I am tired of his selfishness and self-centeredness. I cannot (or wont allow myself) to trust him or his sobriety.
He may be sober, but he is far from living and I am to young to live this old. He has no thirst for life. I feel he is still thirsting for his drink and living in a bubble; afraid of anything and everything for fear he will drink again. Also, there was a lot of damage done to me via the lying and deceitfulness for the last two-five years of his abuse and alcoholism. I have forgiven, but I cannot, nor will I forget.
Just because a spouse quits drinking (and even working a program) it does not fix the damage and hurt done to the other or to the relationship.
He may be sober, but he is far from living and I am to young to live this old. He has no thirst for life. I feel he is still thirsting for his drink and living in a bubble; afraid of anything and everything for fear he will drink again. Also, there was a lot of damage done to me via the lying and deceitfulness for the last two-five years of his abuse and alcoholism. I have forgiven, but I cannot, nor will I forget.
Just because a spouse quits drinking (and even working a program) it does not fix the damage and hurt done to the other or to the relationship.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
Wow, Stella...your post really got me thinking today. I think this is my third attempt at a response.
I actually started my recovery process before RAH started his. In a lot of ways, I needed that "jump start" to educate myself on alcoholism and what my options were for dealing with him. I did kick my RAH out of the house, so I don't have the daily interaction with him at this time. For perspective, RAH is 4+ months into recovery.
I feel like I am in limbo right now. We're managing living apart from a financial perspective, and I'm pretty well able to keep up with the household responsibilities - three dogs, no kids. The key to this for me has been keeping busy and taking care of myself - my work & keeping up with our home keep me very busy. My niece spent a good bit of that time in the hospital so I was busy with visiting her & my SIL in the hospital & helping to take care of her siblings when I could. Now, I am trying to focus on figuring out who I am again and what really interests me. I tend to most enjoy solitary pursuits, but I really need more social interaction. I also have weekly individual counseling and AlAnon meetings.
I posted earlier today that sometimes "How are YOU doing?" can be the hardest question to answer truthfully. I feel like I am in a constant balancing act - I see positive changes in RAH which gives me hope but I'm so cautious to not get my hopes up because I realize how fragile this time is. Some moments, I am so enraged that I don't even know myself - I need to have a difficult conversation with a colleague and I've been putting it off because I know how quick I am to anger these days. Then there are moments where I turn the anger in and it becomes depression - I blame myself for everything and question all my choices. It's a roller coaster, to be sure.
I will say that working through this I am much more "in the now" than I have ever been - I worry a lot less about tomorrow or the next day and absolutely revel in my happy moments or when others are generous enough to share their happy events & achievements with me. I'm also so grateful for the people & things in my life, for the recovery process & resources available to me. There are so many problems in this world without these kinds of resources so it is something to be thankful for. I'm also thankful that the changes I make while going through this can be part of me forever, so the effort I put into this will not be lost regardless of what happens with RAH and I.
RAH is not at 6 months in recovery, and I would say that I'm approaching a year, so maybe I'm past your friend or maybe I'm not there yet. I think the big thing I didn't get from your post...and that you know we talk about a lot here...is what is your friend doing to take care of herself? The weekend trip is great, but what is she doing for recovery on a day-to-day basis?
Thank you for wanting to take the walk in her shoes...she's lucky to have you as a friend.
I actually started my recovery process before RAH started his. In a lot of ways, I needed that "jump start" to educate myself on alcoholism and what my options were for dealing with him. I did kick my RAH out of the house, so I don't have the daily interaction with him at this time. For perspective, RAH is 4+ months into recovery.
I feel like I am in limbo right now. We're managing living apart from a financial perspective, and I'm pretty well able to keep up with the household responsibilities - three dogs, no kids. The key to this for me has been keeping busy and taking care of myself - my work & keeping up with our home keep me very busy. My niece spent a good bit of that time in the hospital so I was busy with visiting her & my SIL in the hospital & helping to take care of her siblings when I could. Now, I am trying to focus on figuring out who I am again and what really interests me. I tend to most enjoy solitary pursuits, but I really need more social interaction. I also have weekly individual counseling and AlAnon meetings.
I posted earlier today that sometimes "How are YOU doing?" can be the hardest question to answer truthfully. I feel like I am in a constant balancing act - I see positive changes in RAH which gives me hope but I'm so cautious to not get my hopes up because I realize how fragile this time is. Some moments, I am so enraged that I don't even know myself - I need to have a difficult conversation with a colleague and I've been putting it off because I know how quick I am to anger these days. Then there are moments where I turn the anger in and it becomes depression - I blame myself for everything and question all my choices. It's a roller coaster, to be sure.
I will say that working through this I am much more "in the now" than I have ever been - I worry a lot less about tomorrow or the next day and absolutely revel in my happy moments or when others are generous enough to share their happy events & achievements with me. I'm also so grateful for the people & things in my life, for the recovery process & resources available to me. There are so many problems in this world without these kinds of resources so it is something to be thankful for. I'm also thankful that the changes I make while going through this can be part of me forever, so the effort I put into this will not be lost regardless of what happens with RAH and I.
RAH is not at 6 months in recovery, and I would say that I'm approaching a year, so maybe I'm past your friend or maybe I'm not there yet. I think the big thing I didn't get from your post...and that you know we talk about a lot here...is what is your friend doing to take care of herself? The weekend trip is great, but what is she doing for recovery on a day-to-day basis?
Thank you for wanting to take the walk in her shoes...she's lucky to have you as a friend.
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My alcoholic wife is now in recovery and working diligently to make it happen. Even though we have and are addressing the issues that have damaged our relationship I continue to worry about what the future holds for us as a couple.
Our social life centered around bars, pubs, clubs, gigs etc. for so long and while I am still able to do that it saddens me I cannot share those fun times with my wife anymore. Her life is consumed by 2 or 3 AA meetings a day and this is the way it has to be for the foreseeable future. I just don't know what kind of life we can create that involves fun and laughter like it used to that is not a threat to her sobriety.
Similarly other aspects of our life have changed. In the last 2 years of her alcoholism our love life diminished from the once vibrant, frequent experience it once was. I miss this, I miss her and the intimacy and closeness it brought us. I do not subscribe to the view you can have a marriage without sex, that simply does not work as lifestyle for me. Call me selfish but it is something I need from my relationship and I hope with all my heart we can recapture the passion we once had.
The term recovery is oft used by the alcoholic but it is equally applicable to those closest to them who suffer the fallout from this disease. I have been to a few Al-Anon meetings, some provided food for thought while others appeared to me to be full of people looking for an outlet for their moaning and self-pity. I believe you make your own destiny, of course we all need help, support and guidance at times, but right now I'm struggling to see where a bright future lies within my marriage.
Our social life centered around bars, pubs, clubs, gigs etc. for so long and while I am still able to do that it saddens me I cannot share those fun times with my wife anymore. Her life is consumed by 2 or 3 AA meetings a day and this is the way it has to be for the foreseeable future. I just don't know what kind of life we can create that involves fun and laughter like it used to that is not a threat to her sobriety.
Similarly other aspects of our life have changed. In the last 2 years of her alcoholism our love life diminished from the once vibrant, frequent experience it once was. I miss this, I miss her and the intimacy and closeness it brought us. I do not subscribe to the view you can have a marriage without sex, that simply does not work as lifestyle for me. Call me selfish but it is something I need from my relationship and I hope with all my heart we can recapture the passion we once had.
The term recovery is oft used by the alcoholic but it is equally applicable to those closest to them who suffer the fallout from this disease. I have been to a few Al-Anon meetings, some provided food for thought while others appeared to me to be full of people looking for an outlet for their moaning and self-pity. I believe you make your own destiny, of course we all need help, support and guidance at times, but right now I'm struggling to see where a bright future lies within my marriage.
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Can any of you help me sympathize with her? Mostly I am sad for her and her A and their family. She has told him none of this but shared with a large group of his friends.
That's sort of like what my situation was like after I left AXH. He went to rehab and got sober and desperately wanted us to get back together. I was done. He could have promised me the moon and I would not have gone back. I was done.
I can very, very much relate to that. You get to a point where there are just no feelings left. None. Before I left AXH, I would daydream about him dying so that I could be free of the marriage. That's how much done I was.
And I think you know why -- you've been dragged through the mud and on the roller coaster just one time too many.
Where I can't sympathize with her is where she is telling other people she's only staying till the youngest kid is out of the house -- and NOT telling her RAH this. That doesn't sound like the kind of open communication I would want in my marriage.
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I know, lillamy. That bothered me a lot. He's a friend of mine, too, and I know he loves her more than anything. I wish she would talk to him. Heck, I wish she would educate herself about the disease and the dynamics. I want good things for their family and I know that it's possible. I hate to see her suffering like this and unwilling to seek help for herself.
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