Aeryn

This was the topic of my meeting on Sunday - not my home meeting but a very large one I go to on Sunday mornings.

This topic brought up a lot of triggers for me - I grew up with an emotionally abusive, NPD, untreated Alanon Mom. And I always felt less than - judged, beneath her, and small. The judgement more often than not came in a form where it was said in a way to appear caring when it was not (so it was inauthentic): for example "I see you tried your best, it's too bad that's how it turned out. As you know this is not the way you were raised or the way we act. I will pray for God to help you." This would be over something as simple as a choice I made in a friend - choosing one I liked over one she liked. Even typing it out above it maybe looks normal but it was meant is - "you are no good, you are not what I want and the only hope for you is divine intervention". It was said with a tone that cut deep. I will admit I often get triggers of this behavior both here at SR and in Alanon meetings. They come from things like "Well due to my recovery I am now...a certain way" as a response to someone, indicating that today that person is no longer like that and now "better than". I know a lot of it is about me and my childhood and moving forward from it...however I didn't realize it was also a codependency side effect.

However that was not the reason for my post - the reason was the meeting forced me to turn that topic toward myself...to try to see times *I* had been judgmental (and boy have I been to my LSAH - legally separated AH). I also recognize some times when my posts here did the "well due to my recovery" thing. I worry a lot I will become just like my mother and that is why even when I'm uncomfortable/triggered I still come here and go to meetings. I really have to look deeper to see if I do have any more of these traits because I know they are in the literature for a reason - they are a side effect of codependency and being ACOA.

I obviously don't have a lot of good recovery/ESH with this yet - I was wondering if anyone else had some to share?

AnvilheadII

that sounds like a LOT of good recovery and ES&H to me! this family of origin stuff can be tough and painful. but you are facing it down anyways.

and we DO change in recovery....sharing of how WE have changed is beneficial to others.

BlueSkies1

My mother is a minister, sober alcoholic for 20 years, but that tone of voice is very prevalent when she speaks. I know what you speak of very well.
But I'm all grown up now, 50 years old, and she is not the measurement I use to gauge how I am doing in life.
That would be me, and others that I trust their judgment more so than hers.
By thinking that way, I have taken away the power she had over me. She simply doesn't have that power because I don't give it to her. Her words do not sting. I see it as a reflection of who she is, not me. She's also mellowing out a little in her old age.

Yes, I see it here too. Not everyone embraces the al anon way, and that's when things get sticky- from my perspective -and I will leave it at that.

We are partially always going to be a product of our environment, parents included. I try to laugh at myself when I am thinking like mom, or catch dad in the mirror reflection, but I also know there's years of growing I have done outside of that environment and have formed my own separate person long ago. I'm sure you're doing the same...

Aeryn

Just an FYI - my FOO situation is not fully posted on these boards, it used to be but I had to remove the posts for privacy reasons regarding my AH. All I will say is the emotional and psychological abuse I suffered at my mother's hands is severe enough I have been advised by not one but two professionals that speaking or interacting with her on any more than a holiday letter type level is not only not healthy for me but detrimental. I understand people mean well but my FOO situation isn't something I'm really looking for any advice on in this forum...it's something for trained professionals. I only mentioned it because it's the reason I get triggered here and at meetings and because it forces me to look at myself. I don't find anything about what I suffered at my mother's hands humorous - it's just not something light. I posted a thread on NPD a while back and I abandoned it because some of the advice on there went against every piece of professional advice I'd gotten regarding the issue and the advice in fact went directly against what I was advised professionally. I don't mean to be harsh but I wanted to be direct.

I don't want to offend anyone with this I just want to sort of ward off any advice and request none.

What I was looking for was more ESH regarding people's own codependent tendencies to themselves be arrogant, judgmental, condescending or self righteous and how they recognized it and started changing the behavior.

BlueSkies1

Ok, sorry if you didn't like what I posted.

Let's see...self-reflection...
My dad was a tyrant. I, and several of my siblings, caught his short temper like the plague.
One day it was beautiful outside, and I realized I was sitting at my computer absolutely fuming about something.
I looked in a hand mirror at the scrunched up brow, the unhappy eyes, and asked myself why I was so deep in anger when the world was turning outside my window, life was continuing, it was a beautiful day, and I wasn't beautiful at all right then.
So I decided it would be better to mirror the beautiful day outside my window than mirror my father.
It was a conscience choice...and I realized it was every day of my life. We don't have to repeat history.

isitme

I read this post earlier and I couldn't really relate.

Then I read today’s Courage to Change:

“Do not search for the truth,” said an ancient patriarch, “only cease to cherish opinions.” For me, ceasing to cherish opinions is part of the Tenth Step. Much of what I find wrong in my life is related to my opinions—that is my prejudices, assumptions, self-righteous stances, attitudes.
For example, I continue to assume that I have the inside track on how everything should be done, and that other people are too short-sighted to recognize this great truth. Reality proves me wrong. I also revert to the idea that ignoring my feelings is practical, even desirable. This, too, is wrong. And I act as if I can run my life without trusting in my Higher Power. Wrong again.
I give thanks for Step Ten’s reminder that I need to continue taking personal inventory and making frequent corrections, especially in the areas where I tend to repeat my mistakes.

Today’s Reminder

It is no easy task to change the thinking of a lifetime, even when I am sure that I want to change. The Tenth Step allows me to be aware of sliding back into faulty thinking. I don’t have to abuse myself when it happens—that doesn't help at all. By promptly admitting when I’m wrong, I am doing what I can to change.

“No longer must we accumulate burdens of guilt or resentment that will become heavier and more potent over time. Each day, each new moment can be an opportunity to clear the air and start again, fresh and free.”
…In All Our Affairs

I think where I am the most judgmental and self-righteous is in the little affairs of everyday life. Because I know better than anyone else, when the kids should do homework or take a bath. When we should be eating, watching TV or cleaning up. I’m also really good at noticing when people aren't doing things my way. (Why does he always add too much water to the rice, he worries about the carpet being dirty but never the bathroom.) It’s easy for me to point out things I would like done differently, but it’s also easy for me to thank people for doing them. But maybe that’s not enough, maybe my thanks is seen as condescending or un-authentic because of the number to times I've tried to get them to do it different. Maybe my thank you would be more appreciated if I just let go and let people help in their own way. I can see ways that letting go of expectations and my need to be right will get me a lot further in life than holding onto pain and resentments for things I truly had no control over. And realize that honestly, they didn't matter in the first place, I’m the one who them those thoughts power on my own accord.

(This may or may not be what you were referring to, but it’s what I got out of these readings)

Aeryn

Yep - that's it! That's what we were talking about in the meetings - thank you so much for an authentic share on it.

Here's some of the things I've realized I've said in the past that were done (sometimes inadvertently sometimes not) with an air of judgment and condescension:

1. "I'm sorry you feel that way." (Implied meaning: there is something wrong with *you* and although I may have upset you it's about you not me)

2. "You should try this..or that" (Unwanted advice - implied meaning: Poor you I know better and this is what you should do.)

3. "Before my recovery I used to think similarly to you but now I'm..."

Some of this depends on tone but I remember taking this class in college - a sociology class where we learned how sometimes helping can be condescending (we even did an experiment on it)...I didn't get it at the time but I do more and more now.


The girl at my meeting mentioned things like getting in arguments with her boyfriend and saying things like "Well I have 7 years recovery and..." and she would use it with an air of superiority to make a point - she said she realized that was self righteous...so things like that.

isitme

Exactly! I don't have recovery per say, so I can't do that superiority thing, but I certainly give LOTS of unwanted advice, on any topic. And usually it's the kind I KNOW but don't necessarily follow. By all means.. listen to my words but don't look at my actions. Eeehh.. that's a hard pill to swallow, but I feel much better now that I know I'm working on it.

And I've always had trouble with "I'm sorry you feel that way" it never comes out right and doesn't usually have the desired effect of cutting off the argument. I've resorted to "I'm not talking about this anymore today. You may ask me again tomorrow" Probably not a great answer.. but it's what's working for me today.

Aeryn

Me too on the unwanted advice....and the weird part is I could totally see when it was being done to me and I didn't like it but then in turn I would do it to someone else! haha.

I figure at least I'm recognizing it so one step at at time.

LifeRecovery

I find that I do it with the things that I excel at.....in part because I felt so bad about things in the rest of my life.

I am most likely to do it at work, and around organization (both of which are safe for me).

I also really struggle with the idea of judgement. I feel judgemental I(and am at times), but sometimes I am struggling to keep myself sane and safe....and I feel like they are all one and the same.

I feel like I was judgemental around my AH, but at the same time was trying to sort out what was okay for me to have in my relationship.

This continues to remain challenging for me....I suspect in part because I can't make it black or white and I can't have hard and fast rules around it. Actually it is not only challenging, but down right confusing.