peacesoul

In process of divorce. Per both his probation terms and our temporary orders, he is supposed to abstain from drinking alcohol.
But is drinking (he drinks outside the home/ usually at bars or friends house). Denies it. I'm going to contact my attorney tomorrow, asking her whether I have to wait another month for scheduled date in court and/or whether I should be doing something in the meantime. Last month I did not request the alcohol evaluation, with terms to request later. Which I'm going to do now.

We have toddler, so I can't just leave house and go looking for him. Although I've done that once when had a babysitter. But doesn't do a lot of good since even seeing him doesn't 'prove' he was drinking.
Oh and yes, this makes dis-engaging difficult since I still feel like I need to track him/his actions/times home since it may help the custody/court process.

Anyone have experience to share? Private investigators (I will ask my attorney her opinion)?
Thanks

choublak

My mom hired a private investigator to get proof that my dad was cheating on her. I'm not sure if that would work with drinking though.

peacesoul

How long ago? I've heard others do this, but it seemed to be a decades ago story, and I think the courts are more black-and-white only if on paper? At least that's what I'm trying to prepare myself for

dandylion

Perhaps your attorney could get copies of the bar tabs on the occassions that he is in the bars.

dandylion

LightInside

All I can say is that I'm going through a similar thing. I have a toddler, my A broke up with ME (what?!), he might be dry (again) right now (it's court ordered for an arrest in August), and I don't have a lot of proof that he is a danger to or son. He is actually safe with our son a lot or most of the time, but he's unpredictably dangerous (i.e. Passing out with son in high chair and food on tray). I have friends (non-attorneys) who sit through a lot of family court. They don't think my X is bad enough for me to get the supervised visits I'm .asking for, but I need to address all of this now so that down the road, if it gets worse, we'll already have something in place. I'm asking for a chemical dependency evaluation too. I think it all comes out in the wash in the end. I just pray that the kids are safe until the truth is revealed. I'm kind of using your thread to vent a little. Hope that's okay. It's always a relief to know that I'm not the only one going through something. Does your ex use Facebook? That's one way that I got "proof" that he has a drinking problem. I don't know if it will be worth anything on court though. I'll let you know. I totally get the difficulty in detachment when you're so focused on his problem for a good reason. I can't stand seeing my ex, but I've had to in order to facilitate my son seeing him.

NWGRITS

Talk to your attorney, but be sure to document every single time he drinks that you know about. Date, time, his behavior, whether or not it was around a visitation time. Document, document, document. We are doing the same to try to get custody of my stepchildren from their p.o.s. mother (not an A, but a waste of oxygen).

On another note, children are never SAFE in the care of an actively drinking A. Don't fall into that line of thinking, please. I did, and I nearly lost my children to CPS because my mother got hammered while she was babysitting them. You could lose them to not just the state, but to God in heaven. A's are unpredictable, and the disease can go from 0-60 in the blink of an eye.

butterfly2013

Going through this too with my XABF and our hearing next month for child custody...I hope his verbal admission to me about his continuing alcohol use, his FB pics of him and wife wife drinking together, is enough proof for the judge to remove the wife as the supervisor (she also admitted to me she has a drinking problem!) and to get professional supervised visitation until he has proof of treatment...arghhh Hang in there, I'm right there with you.

choublak

In the past few years. The PI put a GPS tracker on his car and was able to follow him and take photos and video of him leaving his girlfriend's apartment.

ProgressNotPerfection

If I were in a situation where my ex-spouse was a proven alcoholic (drunk driving, mandatory AA and the like) and I had minor children, I'd request the court to order a breathalyzer in his vehicle just to make sure my kids were safe. After all, if he is sober, what's the problem....

choublak

But then he might tamper with it.

peacesoul

thanks all. I appreciate the advice and the feeling of not the only one! Talked with my attorney today, have to wait till November. Unless of course gets really bad, meaning physically violent or call the police behavior, which hasn't happened to date.
Question about an 'actively drinking A'; meaning even when sober can't rely for childcare. I guess that's a dumb question since he's ability to make good decisions is shot. He does a few times a week pick up our daughter from daycare and watch her at our home until I get home from work. I haven't thought to change/discourage that, and I think I'll be lucky to get the courts to agree to similar nevermind limited care.
We still live together until final terms are determined, and because if/when he moves out there's a chance he'll have our daughter overnight scares me to pieces. I hear others words strongly about having faith while children are in the Aparent's custody. So while I will fight to keep her in my safe care, I unfortunately will consider myself lucky lucky lucky if the courts back me on that.

peacesoul

oh and about the PI, my attorney says not worth it, although I'm not sure why she thinks that. I am documenting.

Elis

Earlier this year, I hired a PI to follow my ex and take photos and videos of him drinking. He told the court, under oath, that he had not had a drink in 8 months. My attorney submitted photos and video of him drinking at different bars and I was awarded full legal and physical custody. It cost me a lot of money and I will be paying my attorney for the next 20 years but it was the best thing I ever did.

NWGRITS

An actively drinking A is one who does still drink. Sober means no alcohol over days or weeks, as in nearing a state of recovering. When they are still drinking, they aren't sober-- they just haven't had the first drink of the day yet. I hope that makes sense. To people who aren't A's, "sober" is kind of the same as an A, only it doesn't take three weeks to determine that they might possibly not get hammered tonight. The disease isn't predictable. Alcoholics are predictably unpredictable. I would never again trust my kids with an A who has any less than five years of sobriety under their belt. I've been traumatized too much to consider anything less.

Elis

Well said. My exABF has been sober for 4 weeks and cannot understand why I still won't let him be alone with our daughter. 4 weeks is nothing! 4 months is nothing! He still hangs around the same people so I know it is only a matter of time before he drinks again.

NWGRITS

I'm sorry, Elis. I hate that feeling of knowing they are peering over the side of the wagon and preparing to jump. We have been there with my AM several times. My bottom was her getting so drunk she couldn't stand, while babysitting my children. My sister called the cops and CPS. They were visiting for the summer and I was 3,000 miles away when it happened. Talk about being done. Haven't spoken to her since.

peacesoul

This is probably going to come out wrong, but I'm confused/frustrated at hearing how others would not let an active A to be in custody of minors. Without me doing what the legal system would consider kidnapping and me leaving the area/country with my daughter ( I'm not going to do), I don't see any definite way of making sure her alcoholic father does not have some level of care/custody. I have been working to come to accept that.
I guess re-reading, I suppose you're right, I will never trust my active AH with my daughter, but not trusting him doesn't mean that I'm not going to have to live with him sharing custody with my daughter.
At least that's what the legalities look like right now?

Elis, I will ask again about PI and possible proof of (a likely future) lie under oath. Thanks again

wanttobehealthy

I have to let my very sick very abusive xAH be overnight in my home with our kids once a week and I have no solution for you about how to be okay with it yourself in your situation. It is hell each week. I worry and am fearful but D8 and D5 know my number and keep a phone in their room and call me when they are worried.

I have thought about the PI route too but ultimately it seems (in my state at least) that unless a kid is being beaten senseless by a parent, they are going to have visitation. And I am walking a fine line with my xAH in that he is viewed as a stand up guy in the community so to push too much with wanting supervised visits when a judge has already given him unsupervised could backfire and he could get more time with them.

My lawyer has been down this path many times and says that I need to have faith that his true colors will shine soon enough and sure enough they are. He already after just 3 weeks is not exercising all his time that he can with them and the calls the girls are making to me (some of which I have let go to voicemail and can hear xAH screaming in the background at them for calling me) are pretty good evidence that he is not able to manage even the limited time he has been given.

So, if you can stomach it at all and let your D be with him (especially if it is a court order and you HAVE to let her be with him) you have to believe that he will show his true colors sooner than later.

I thought mine NEVER would show his and fought hard to keep the girls from him which only made him fight me harder for them. Now that he has some time with them he is showing he doesn't want it.

I guess it's a good exercise in letting go of what you cant control (which as a mom when it comes to your kids is the hardest thing I have ever had to do).

LightInside

I'm grateful that my ex is actually wanting to be with his son. I don't doubt that he could gradually fade out of my son's life. When I asked him initially how much time he wanted with our son, he said four X/week, but them I saw him prioritize other things like helping a friend move. He has never asked to see his son any extra until this week. He has always only seen him when I needed childcare. I stopped asking him to be my sitter and he continued to "watch"/visit our son only during the routine times that I work or go to therapy. His time with our son ended up only being 14-26 hours/week. This weekend I asked what he would put into a parenting plan. He said 50/50 custody. Amazing! It does seem like he just wants to make a big stink because he's being called out. I mentioned the fact that he's never asked to see our son. Suddenly this week he's asking.

My son loves his "Dada" and I don't want to deprive him of that bond. My ex is actually a great dad when people are watching. He's probably a great dad most of the time when no one is watching. Grits said it like it is when she said that they are predictably unpredictable. I can't predict when it will be the "one" time when my son gets hurt or killed because his dad passes out. One thing I did predict though... He got really pissed and quacked a lot over the papers I had served to him tonight.

Something I heard somewhere: We are not responsible for our children's relationships with their other parent. That IS hard to let go of.

xmrscran

Going through the exact same thing...it's hard to prove. You have to "give them enough" rope to hang themselves. Just document everything, also if your child has an attorney assigned to them, talk to that attorney.